I'm a centrist but my friend who has been coming here has been turning hardcore anarcho socialist and keeps trying to redpill me.
But I just don't see logistically how socialism in any form is possible.
Can you give me a actual sound reason or example why socialism would work ever?
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Because capitalism has inherent contradictions to its process just like previous mode of productions like feudalism did, and ultimately the dysfunctionality of these contradictions will forment a growth of consciousness aimed at abolishing the present conditions capable of existing without them. Socalism is that new mode of production.
Elaborate in dum dum words
Basically what user is saying is that just like how over time within feudalism changes happened that led to capitalism, so will changes within capitalism produce socialism. It's not really a question of *how* will socialism work, it's a matter of it *has* to work or else we all literally die.
Why wouldn’t socialism work?
Capitalism demands constant growth on a planet with finite resources.
At some point automation is going to make it such that, under capitalism, the amount of hours that you'd need to work to produce enough material to sustain yourself comes out to working about half an hour a week or less. You are going to need a system that does not distribute resources based on labor input in order for society to not collapse from sheer overproduction. Socialism's focus on distribution on necessity with labor input being an assumed fact of life is crucial for us to not end up in a situation where we have produced so many goods that we can not afford to keep working.
Socialism from the bottom up. Small communities have the biggest say as to where their wealth is distributed. Only problem is in the mind of your average leftist these small communities would work with different races of people who evolved in completely different parts of the globe. The small communities would need to be homogeneous.
I don't see how.
It has yet to so far.
Capitalism isn't just selling goods. Services exist too.
capitalism doesn't distribute wealth based on labor input, it distributes wealth based on the demand for it. IE: scarcity and technical ability.
so you're saying for socialism to work you have to segregate people? That's not very progressive of you.
logistically? They are some good answers here already but I'd like to add that if amazon can do it we can do it too.
fortgot shitposting flag again
How hasn't socialism worked? It created two of the most succesful economic experiments of all time.
inb4 evil Stalin killed 100 gazillion or something like that
So we should all just cut each other's hair over and over to try to maintain capitalism as the world ends? I don't see how this is a solution to the unsustainability of capitalism.
Socialism is the only logical economic system which will save us from increasing poverty, inequality and ecological collapse. To take control of the conomy to suit human needs is needed if we want to have a future worth living.
Those services are based on goods. A capitalist economy without material growth is impossible.
Partly true, but it is all based on labour exploitation at it's base. Scarcity and demand affects the price, but the actual profit stems from paying workers less than the value they put in. Productivity will just continue to rise and with automation kicking in, the rate of profit will fall heavily as there isn't really any labour to exploit. This will all lead to devestating economic crises which will probably lead to millions of deaths and poverty.
Ignore him, he's probably just a fascist with some red paint slapped on.
Yes but we need capitalism to get us to that point if it is the Future.
Just as we needed feudalism to make the conditions for capitalism.
why is socialism possible without material growth?
Services still require goods. What are people going to SERVE ME with? Thin air? Even computer programs require hardware to run them on.
Socialism allows us to conserve our resources much more since we would no longer have to worry about constant growth on a chart we made up in our heads.
what are you replying to here?
Socialist countries are just as wasteful and ecologically damaging.
Cuba is the only environmentally sustainable country on the planet.
and I'm sure we could look at some good ecological things Nordic countries are doing
1 isn't a good stat
OP and anyone else like OP, if nothing else I want you to come away from this thread considering how advances in technology will affect our society if it stays under the same economic system we have now.
What do you think the effect will be if automation becomes widespread and starts replacing jobs en masse, or if radical life extension and genetic engineering on humans becomes realistic?
Also a lesser point: pic related, how much resources does our society waste on advertising, which most people seem to hate anyway?
Well we also have to take into account what is possible.
I see the amount of people doing service jobs increasing. Not fast food but things like Youtube etc.
hopefully a slow down the the over all population.
just no, they're petrol based rent economies that fund a socdem state… nothing ecological about that
they can be, the thing is, in a socialist country, you can do otherwise, there is no invisible hand of the market that you can blame it on, as the whole point of socialism is have humanity decide democratically together how it should use it's labor for the benefit of all, rather than the retarded social darwinism of capitalism that allocate our labor so as to maximize the profits of 0.0001% of fuckers that inherited their power with their fortune. If we decide to build our shit to be sustainable, we will do it. If you decide you want to be sustainable in a capitalist economy, you just slap a coat of green paint on the product you're marketing and voila
YouTube and other internet service jobs are getting increasingly hard to succeed at. Especially due to how established corporations and political institutions are rushing to get a piece of the pie on social media. Money and economic power tend to centralize like that.
There just aren't enough jobs online to take on all the people who are going to lose their work in other areas like trucking, even if you assume they're totally capable of changing to that.
ok? that doesn't mean those sort of services won't increase in comparison to the rest of service jobs being automated away.
I didn't say this I said they would likely increase ( as they have been sense the start of the internet)
They probably will increase, but not at a proportion anywhere necessary to pick up the slack for how many jobs would be lost.
this is just a reason to build a wall and stop third world immigration
Won't change how many unemployed people are already going to be in the country, and a whole lot of native-born Christian straight white American males if that's what you're getting at.
socialism is the reason you are posting on the internet and not getting mauled in a factory somewhere you retarded faggot
Got a sneaking suspicion OP is baiting because he's already revealing a bunch of ignorant bullshit in his posts whereby he doesn't understand his assumptions about things might not be correct
The "no the Communist countries weren't living hell on earth you fucking idiot" starter pack.
I think someone else started posting in OP's place actually but that's fine I guess
it will decrease the amount of unemployed coming in.
What a ridiculously stupid thing to say.
Beware of ists my friend: leftists and rightists are usually rapists.
if %50 percent of the nation is unemployed
its better to have 300 million people than 300 million + immigrants
yeah, be a centrist! wait…
Bumping because I'm that anarcho socialist but I'm a babe still reading literature
Soviet union, real life working example. Cuba if you want a present day on, Just please be reasonable and compare the living standards to other caribean islands or countries in similar situations.
Soon automation wil reach the service sector. Delivery drones, automated transport, no checkout establishments and kyosks will kill murder the economy.
If OP does not specify why he thinks socialism won't work in the first place arguing is pointless.
He probably has a wrong understanding of what capitalism and socialism are anyway.
Continuing. The only way to stop full automation from killing the economy is by not automating.
So we reach an autistic dead end where capitalism is preventing humanity to advance and make our lives more comfortable.
Automation should be celebrated and organized so that humans have to work less, and live fullfiling lives with loads of free time. Under capitalism it's just a tool to concentrate capital and make people miserable.
Fuck off, Zig Forumstard.
>>>Zig Forums
back to your sweaty shithole where you belong.