What do you know

that is unironically one of its greatest strengths and weaknesses, at the same time it is extremely adaptable but it can also be twisted into something else that isn't fascism, let me tell you this if a communist party won an election throughout Europe and nobody decided to intervene what would you do
a. immediately try to kill all parasites thereby starting a civil war from which not only will you destroy yourself but have the parasites ample time to move all of their capital away
b. institute reform after reform in where you achieve your goals slowly but surely and get rid of the parasites in a covert way.
And yes in some ways you are right that Stalin's regime was fascist because he:
-promoted classical russian art and music, generally traditional russian culture and getting rid of mass culture
-kicked out all of the trotskyites
-institued family values and made children be with their fathers again (the soviet union tried to erase the family and make the children be raised under the state)
- made an pseudoapartheid regime with the internal passport system ( personally I would be okay with autonomous ethnic republics)
yes I know that coming from a fascist this sound extremely odd prasisng the soviet union but since i converted I unironically became more open to the far left since I believe lessons can be learned anywhere and its extremely wise to take the good from all ideas if they are compatible

and the spanish civil war was the most destructive conflict of Spain that didnt even need to happen had the left not falsified the electoral results and had the right not be absolutely ass backwards and blind to their compatriots dying in hunger in the fields

Facsism is meaningless. Anyone who's authoritarian can be considered a facist. It literally has no unifying characteristics beside that and autistic reactionary-ism.

Read some history books, baboon

Attached: toyfactory.jpg (764x400, 102.33K)

I know that fascism is a reaction to working class movements, they are the iron fist of capitalism in crisis, funded by the bourgeoisie to keep the workers in line. It's why America and Israel are funding fascists movements all over the world where communists are making gains.
Fascism is, as points out, nothing at its core other than class collaboration, it'll adopt racism and all the other things people normally associate with fascism, when it suits them, and liberal policies when it suits them.

Isnt that textbook reactionary

The "soviet propaganda" about fascism uses primary sources and actually quotes fascist authors. They show the real class nature of fascism, something you guys don't want to see.

And I read the primary source with the added context of having seeing them. dont tell me soviets didnt have an agenda to portray fascism as terribly as possibe

I've read mein kampf, for my legionnaires and the nest-leaders manual, maybe reading the personal screeds of leaders isn't the right approach but from what i can tell fascists just write out some soundbites with no substance and leave it at that. There's literally nothing insightful in any of it.

I literally have a book made by a non fascist that disproves you

Okay? I bet I have a book that disproves your disproof.
Make an argument.

Tell me every way that fascism differs from pic related.

Attached: DCE0A8D3-EBBF-48EC-89A6-99B7EEBFB8F9.jpeg (631x494, 96.14K)

That is because you focuse to much in the materialist sense. Another component of fascism is the world view and metaphysics of it. I am not making this up, the hard

you make yours and not just "muh fascism is gabitalism in dacay, " quote from generic communist leader" "

spooks are spooks but sometimes spooks are necessary for maintaining civilization. Just because you think a spook is bad is in and on itself a spook

besides the fact that democracy, equality and worker supremacy is also a spook

So it's on the same level as "deep" quotes that girls on instagram post after a break up? No thanks.

Attached: uncle.jpg (1772x1974, 406.42K)

Real Talk.

Any Communist movement outside of the West that isn't Third Worldist (AKA The Global South attacking the North) becomes Fascist.

The USSR thought that Mao's China was Nazi Germany. DPRK is basically a Monarchy.

This is kinda why Yockey wanted to ally with Communist Nations that were non-Western and Myatt from O9A (I think) wants Islam to actually conquer the West.

It has to do with the values of the Enlightenment as Fascism rejects the Enlightenment.

They showed what it was, and fascists ended up proving soviet propaganda right.

think of it this way, why did the early soviet union abolish the free love laws if love and gender are a spook

Well the thing with all these „national revolutionary” ideologies is that they always end up compromising in order to please liberal/big business lobby. I would argue that some of them were fairly cohensive in their approach tho and their anti capitalism was honest, even if somewhat spooked and naive. The most idealistic wing always ends up purged by pawns of big business or marginalized on purpose. The big mistake leftypol anons tend to make is to look at all such ideologies through the lenses of absolutely cancerous American „far right” not socialists. Although uncommon, some of them can be reasoned with, especially on a common ground of fighting American hegemony and capitalism.

lol

Attached: ClipboardImage.png (450x266, 186.59K)

and denying philosophy and metaphysics just because you cant physically see it is as fedora fag as you can get

This user gets it. The most honest of us always gets betrayed

es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oposición_falangista_al_franquismo

Which fascists are honestly against capitalism? And I mean not just against "decadent consumerism" etc.

I have read Evola, Mussolini, Mein Kampf and a bunch of other fascist literature during my right-winger period. I think I know enough about it. It's feels>reals bullshit used to justify petit-bourgeois terror against their working class countrymen. No theory, no analysis, nothing but fantasies and ressentiment.

That's just common sense stuff. It's not inherently right-wing or left-wing. The only leftists who want to dEStrOy cULtURe are the ones living in your head. Every socialist regime in history tried to make high culture accessible to lower classes.

No it didn't.

That had nothing to do with muh racemixing or some retarded shit like that, tho. The internal passport system was to make sure that the republics develop evenly, instead of everyone from the Caucasus and Central Asia moving to Moscow and becoming second-class citizens (like what happened in capitalist Russia). It's the opposite of ethnonationalism.

Agreed, purge nutsacks from class collaborationism and it becomes somewhat acceptable.

At this point I don't care if socialism comes about with nationalistic characteristics, as long as it fucks over porky.

I’m not a Stirnerite, what I was getting at with the image macro was “reactionary and sentimentalist appeals to vague abstractions”

equality is also an abstraction.

Tory Southgate is really the only one that makes sense tbh because he basically says that only an actual literal end of the world will bring National Anarchism forth

Wait what? What the fuck are you going about? They abolished those things because having things like "free love" in a society where women depend on men isn't a good idea.

It literally is made-up depth. It's saying some vague shit so that everyone can get a meaning they want out of it.

yes it did. read Stalin the Enduring Legacy

'metaphysics' doesn't just mean vague hot takes you have when you're high on shrooms you absolute brainlet. Stop falling for trite 'insights' that contribute literally nothing and have no foundation. Its pathetic.

This is an argument a lot of leftists do. Fascism always betrays itself or is betrayed because its radical side can't reconcile with the interests of the bourgeois and has to be replaced with the capitalist oligarchies we've seen.

Actually let me quote from it
to what he saw as the ‘revolution betrayed’ in his
condemnation of Stalinist policies on ‘youth,
family, and culture’. Using the term ‘Thermidor’,
taken from the French revolutionary era, in his
description of Stalinism vis-à-vis the Bolshevik
revolution, Trotsky began his critique on family,
generational and gender relations. Chapter 7 of
The Revolution Betrayed is worth reading in its
entirety as an over-view of how Stalin reversed
Marxism-Leninism. Whether that is ‘good’ or
‘bad’ is, of course, left to the subjectivity of the
reader.[34]
The primary raison d’etre of Marxism for Trotsky
personally seems to have been the destruction of
religion and of family (as it was for Marx).[35]
Hence, the amount of attention Trotsky gives to
lamenting the return to traditional family
relations under Stalin:
The revolution made a heroic effort to
destroy the so-called ‘family hearth’ –
that archaic, stuffy and stagnant
institution in which the woman of the
toiling classes performs galley labor
from childhood to death. The place of
the family as a shut-in petty enterprise
was to be occupied, according to the
plans, by a finished system of social
care and accommodation: maternity
houses, creches, kindergartens, schools,
social dining rooms, social laundries,
first-aid stations, hospitals, sanatoria,
athletic organizations, moving-picture
theaters, etc. The complete absorption
of the housekeeping functions of the
family by institutions of the socialist
society, uniting all generations in
solidarity and mutual aid, was to bring
to woman, and thereby to the loving
couple, a real liberation from the
thousand-year-old fetters. Up to now
this problem of problems has not been
solved. The forty million Soviet
families remain in their overwhelming
majority nests of medievalism, female
slavery and hysteria, daily humiliation
of children, feminine and childish
superstition. We must permit ourselves
no illusions on this account. For that
very reason, the consecutive changes in
the approach to the problem of the
family in the Soviet Union best of all
characterize the actual nature of Soviet
society and the evolution of its ruling
stratum.[36]
Marxism, behind the façade of women’s
emancipation, ridicules the traditional female role
in the family as ‘galley labour’, but does so for
the purpose of delivering women to the ‘galley
labour’ of the Marxist state. The Marxist solution
is to take the child from the parents and substitute
parental authority for the State via childcare. As
is apparent today, the Marxist ideal regarding the
family and children is the same as that of big
capitalism. It is typical of the manner by which
Marxism, including Communism, converges with
plutocracy, as Spengler pointed out soon after the
1917 Revolution in Russia.[37]

t. liberal
uncuck yourself
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm

shid, why cant i greentext right

A brainlet with sub 60 Autism Level should be treated the same way as a 130 Autism Level intellectual then?
got it

Do we treat you the same?

yes

...

Left italian fascist wing who opposed war with Ethiopia and liberal reforms (syndicalists), got purged or marginalized. Polish pre war not socialists who openly promoted workers ownership of mop and workers democracy, also zadruga which admired and wanted to implement plan based economy modeled on collective ownership (they frequently praised stalinism of their time). Iron guard pre Codreanu death. JONS before union with with Falange.

Trotsky is not a very balanced source as far as Stalin's USSR is concerned.

that honestly has been a problem, we dont always attract the men we want. the only one who ever saw success with good men and no help from rich men was the Iron Guard and Falangism. and both were killed prematurely

Yes because hollywood media and coldwar propoganda won't tell you that they (the capitalist liberal establishment) have aided and abetted fascists and every instance in history, always in order to fight real socialism, which is the expressed purpose of fascism. They never tell you in school that Hitler was a rapid anticommunist. They never tell you he was in bed with big business from Germany and America, arms manufacturers etc.

Did you know the entire Not Socialist economy was built on printing fake money to be given to arms dealers? Small wonder essential goods were hyper inflated isn't it… en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mefo_bills

So literal nobodies who have never gotten any power and have always been pathetic retards who get removed by their fellow fascists whenever they actually threaten corporate profits? Nice. Real anti-capitalist ideology you got there. Definitely not a mindless obedient servant of capital. :^)

Wait sorry. I try to understand but what Im only getting is this
is that more accurate because its the only thing I am reading so far

...

they also wont tell me of what their actual programs were. they wont tell me of the Iron Guard and they wont tell me of what actually happened in the SU during Stalin's time in power

You don't think it's relevant that the left wing of fascist parties gets purged every single time so the right can sell out to the bankers and industrialists?

I guess it just really proves the point that fascism as a movement is inherently pro-capitalist, and anyone who is pro-working class gets purged immediately.

the Iron Guard was third political force before codreanu's death. Just because we get infiltrated betrayed doesnt mean they were wrong

truly fascinating to look into the fashfag's psyche

The poor fascists :( nobody understands them

then why do we see most of our leftwing as one of the most pure brands of fascism. Moreover, explain to me who Niccola Bombacci was and why he died

...

he died as he lived, a traitor

Thats what im saying tho. Its not that ideology itself is inherently pro capitalist. Its just that its followers are frequently naive and tend to be used as a tool by capitalists and financed traitors. Nothing i said contradicts my point.

Can you tell me why Israel consistently supports far right governments all over the world? A recent example being the support of Guaido over Maduro?

What does it say when the establishment are other fascists? You're useful idiots who get conned into supporting anti-worker politics and by the time you catch on your 'kamraden' remove you and laugh all the way to the bank.
The Iron Guard literally got crushed by the Nazis when they tried to assert their sovereignty lmao

and should I mention that Boleslaw Piaceski was the leader of the Falanga after which he collaborated with the PPR and created the PAX Asociation

no we dont get cornered. We get betrayed and if we dont cow tow to our "comrades" we die. Literally every fascist know that the capitalists arent their friends due to being betrayed again and again.

Ah yes, right after the NKVD had a nice talk with him he becomes perfectly happy to work for the Polish government and organising patriotic priests :^)
Not sure if he's your idea of fascism in action tbh

True

I don't know why you do. Most fascists see themselves are far right.
A faggot who allied with fascists and died with the fascists.
There are many fascists who proclaim themselves left wing in order to appease communists. Hitler did, called their party socialist, chose the red color and then purged all actual left wingers from the party.

Attached: hortler.png (1127x1641, 3.51M)

Attached: nazi millions behind me.jpg (558x800, 78.7K)

he liberated as much members of the Falanga as possible and did manage to get his ideas across the PPR and did manage to implement most of his idead in the Republic before it collapsed. pretty good run if you ask me

so you admit fascism is a convoluted mess that betrays itself and ultimately helps the rich. why are you not a socialist then?

Well if the PRL is your idea of 'fascism' then you're infinitely closer to Bolshevism than anything contemporary fascists aspire to lol

Attached: P O L I S H W A Y T O S O C I A L I S M.mp4 (320x180, 9.65M)

Because most of your ideas are irreconcilable:
-your belief in equality for all even if it has no basis
-your desire to form a world socialist republic
- your materialism that denies religion even as a form to please the workers who still believe in work
- your naive belief taht democracy can still work.

You're not actually saying anything. Provide some arguments or justification if you want to be taken seriously and in good faith. I understand that coming from fascism those might be in low supply for you however.

Most fascist unironically are.eg
In a server I am from many fascist believe in a seizing of means of production and having a coucil of workers own the factories (simplistic I know but this is a snapshot version)
Most of them also believe that China is unironically fascist (not your understanding of fascism though)

Fucking this lol

Attached: gardadefierpcd_r.png (723x504, 142.63K)

and yet,there you all were (and lots of you still are) supporting Donald Trump, and being proud of it, even given he is an Israeli puppet and has been all along.You don't know shit, none of you do, you have no real analysis and that is why you are so easy to manipulate and then betray.

okay then disprove my points that
you believe in equality even if it has no basis save materialism
you believe in a world proletarian revolution even if it wouldnt be for the bettr
That you would deny people worship of their gods even if it makes their lives more tolerable or its just a harmless tradition
That you do believe in democracy even though it allows for far to much corruption

and you supported Backstabbin' Bernie of hillary clinton despite being the same kike puppets

that is unironically a rather accurate picture

They pretend they didn't support Trump now in the first place. Zig Forums was always at war with Eurasia.

Attached: trump going back on everything he stood for.png (2000x2000, 3.15M)

You realise this isn't true though right?
Hop onto Zig Forums or stromfront or any other far-right community and you'll quickly see your 'ideas' are an extreme minority. Fascists are viscerally anti-communist, anti-worker and pro-capitalist. They might rant about bankers and usury when they feel like RPing as Hitler but just like him they're incredibly eager to fellate capitalists and shoot strikers.
I know you probably consider them 'fake fascists' and not ackshually fascists, but in reality 'Most fascists' are going to use you and kill you the moment you voice dissent against capital. Just like every. other. time.

Attached: Ślubowanie młodych - Polska Rzeczypospolita Ludowa.webm (400x300, 6.04M)

no they dont pretend. They say they did believe but were betrayed or just dindt believe at all

and then again you are wrong. i wouldnt really consider Zig Forums as an example of fascist community since there are still alot of libertarians and capitalists but most dont even support big business even if it was directed by a white man since they still understand that money corrupts

Socialism isn't when everyone is literally the same espressostalinist.com/2013/05/11/engels-lenin-and-stalin-on-bourgeois-equality-and-straw-man-arguments-against-marxism/
I don't, and that's not what internationalism is.
Marxists are against religion, but not in favour of exterminating it. Engels and Lenin declared that launching an open war against religion would be useless and that it should wither away eventually.

Yes we supported Bernie as maybe the most left wing candidate in American history, and yes he backstabbed by Hillary Clinton, as wikileaks showed us.

So what? What is your point. I was showing you that you are easily hoodwinked and maniupulated, as your examples from fascist history also showed, Asser, Marinetti also, who wrote the original manifesto and ended up fucked over. You are betrayed, because you think class collaboration can work, but it can't, because the interests of the classes are in contradiction, so the class with the power purges the other class, in this case, the class with the power was still the capitalist class and so the supporters of the working class got purged. This is the difference between Stalin and Hitler. Stalin purged capitalists and and their kulackeys, Hitler purged the Socialists.

and in the r/DebateFascism I have seen more advocacy for economic socialism as time went by. hell in my spanish server one person literally recomended me Karl Marx for a good critique of capitalism in a materialistic sense

What other basis would we need?

Why wouldn't it? Where's the argument?

We wouldn't. The reason for the harsh anti-religious policies in the USSR and elsewhere was that at the time, organized religion was an actual threat that sponsored counter-revolutionary activities and murder of workers. Nowadays religion isn't as influential so there is no reason to be autistic about it.

Bourgeois democracy does.

What equality? It's such a vague word. We believe that everyone should have a roof under his head, healthcare and be fed. We don't believe everyone is the same.
Why wouldn't it be for the better? In most countries where a revolution happened living standards improved.
I'm fine with religion although I believe it's just a cope. Communism isn't really anti-religion.
How does it have more corruption?
We aren't liberals you imbecile although I don't see what's wrong with Bernie beside being a SuccDem. We also don't autisticly blame the "juice" for everything.

doesn't it strike you as odd that the left stands alone in the places it congregates, here for example, we have anarchists and communists, but we do not have capitalists. Yet in all right wing spaces the "true anticapitalist" fascists share space and most of the ideas with said lolberts/ancaps/run of the mill conservatives, who all believe firmly in liberal capitalism. Why is that?

what does this mean? And is materialism meant to be an invalid basis for something?
Actually we support it because it would be for the best, we wouldn't if it weren't.
Expand on this. 'Democracy' under capitalism is corrupt because it is entirely in the hands of bourgeois institutions and bourgeois representatives. Democracy in socialism doesn't have such perverse incentives because it comes down to workers managing their own lives according to their needs and wants, there's no one to bribe or corrupt. Democracy is impossible and a farce under capitalism, but we've always maintained that.

all that shows is some of you are coming round. The thing is you probably are at heart anticapitalists, you don't like the world that capitalism has create, you are just so twisted by boomer propoganda you have decided reactoinary fascism is a more acceptable alternative than communism. This is precisely because it is less radically different to what you live in now than communism is. Fascism is what we have now minus elections, more or less.

to finish this off, that means that fascism requires less relearning of the relations of society, it requires less self questioning, it is altogether more comfortable to be a fascist, it is much easier to side mostly with the prevailing liberal/conservative discourse, because you agree with basically all of its ideas bar social ones. You want a mixed economy tempered by a strong state to stop its worsts excesses. You're a actually reactionary social democrat sans democrat

So do I but I think my country has more priority over one a thousand miles away
Afganistan, Iran, the middle east in general.> Inb4 the United States supported them
there was till an armed resistance
"Lets kill the tsar from the palace and kick god from heaven" soviet proverb
I also agree but the problem is that is still to idealistic. Do you mean democracy in an Athenian way. Believe me I can see the appeal but unless the ones participating are HIGH Autism Level BIG BRAIN NIGGERS i dont see how it can work

Its due to the rules of the server. you exclude anyone that is remotely not leftwinf