Can someone give me a rundown on Chapo trap house? I keep hearing it thrown...

Logan Morris
Logan Morris

Can someone give me a rundown on Chapo trap house? I keep hearing it thrown around in leftist circles but always thought it was some reddit thing so I ignored it.

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Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/
wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203833004577249811049566178
youtube.com/watch?v=e-28RP5lk88
youtube.com/watch?v=X_jpKgKmVgY
ohtarzie.wordpress.com/2017/03/20/if-it-quacks-like-a-fascist/
doloresvek.wordpress.com/2017/07/24/chapo-trap-house/

David Brown
David Brown

Simultaneously trigger libs for being "Russian puppets"and also ☭TANKIE☭s for being "Imperialist puppets".

Jonathan Evans
Jonathan Evans

Their show is kind of lame but their subreddit is pure radlib cancer.

Carter Sanders
Carter Sanders

milennial hipster communism

Joseph Adams
Joseph Adams

Not really my thing but I listened to one episode which I thought was entertaining. It's the one where they went to CPAC and one of the guys was tripping on acid. Feels very National Lampoon from the 1970s. It's not a big deal. Better than The Daily Show or whatever.

Isaac Morgan
Isaac Morgan

they report on socdem Twitter drama

Zachary Wright
Zachary Wright

chapotraphouse2 is pretty good, most MLs stayed there after the meme shutdown on the original shutdown

Jason Morris
Jason Morris

subreddit*

Logan Williams
Logan Williams

pro gun control and think they are way, way funnier than they actually are but some of their shit can quite informative and they get good people on

Jaxson Wright
Jaxson Wright

Opportunists and soyboy brocialists just like most e-celebs and podcast groups.

Jackson Gomez
Jackson Gomez

They're not bad. Some episodes are really funny while others are meh. They do have some bad takes and at times go too far in defending shitheads like AOC. I still like them and I especially enjoy how much they trigger the twitter ☭TANKIE☭s here.

Aaron Ortiz
Aaron Ortiz

whats wrong with AOC? She is basically the cream of americna politics

Nathan Rogers
Nathan Rogers

AOC makes me cream

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Xavier Watson
Xavier Watson

She's a succdem not a leftist

Julian Adams
Julian Adams

as far as i am aware she is the only elected american representative who has talked about surplus value extraction. Well done shes a succdem. lenin advocated for the support of succdems under certain conditions did you know

Bentley Young
Bentley Young

She is a classcucked opportunist pandering to thirsty bitchboys.

Carson Reed
Carson Reed

as far as i am aware she is the only elected american representative who has talked about surplus value extraction.
lol when? Are you sure she even knows what shes talking about?

Well done shes a succdem. lenin advocated for the support of succdems under certain conditions did you know

Back then social democracts were revolutionary now they're just reactionary welfare capitalists

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Robert Brooks
Robert Brooks

It's a sort of comedy "talk" podcast where several of a rotating group of hosts talk about current political events while cracking jokes. The hosts of CTH are actually a good deal more radical than their reputation as a "socdem podcast", but they're all in Democrat Cops of America and I know Will and Virgil seem to lean pretty hard demsoc (they keep talking about stacking the courts like a power move like that wouldn't immediately cause a coup attempt and/or a counterrevolution). Still, I think that if you started listening to this show under the impression that it was a social democrat podcast and then, for instance, heard Amber say that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a world-historic tragedy you'd be pretty confused.

They have supported some socdem candidates before as basically furthering their own politics, like strong support for Sanders and AOC, because they see it as furthering their politics. I think they could definitely be more critical of those figures, but on the flip side its still a stronger political position than a lot of their critics who are essentially just insular "protest culture" cliques with no real political program of their own.

Kayden Taylor
Kayden Taylor

Back then social democracts were revolutionary now they're just reactionary welfare capitalists
Lenin was much more of a pragmatist than people think.

Cooper Kelly
Cooper Kelly

Lol Lenin would have never supported any of the Kautsky-tier socdems in the US.

Angel Rodriguez
Angel Rodriguez

Matt is annoying as fuck and the worst Chapo. He's a married incel who pretends to be a cynic but really he just cares way too much. Also he has a complex about the midwest and will trash it any time the opportunity presents itself.

Landon Thomas
Landon Thomas

He's also obnoxiously anti-gun while playing at being more Marxist than the reformist podcast members.

Colton Bailey
Colton Bailey

Lenin was much more of a pragmatist than people think.
and?

Austin Davis
Austin Davis

Back then social democracts were revolutionary now they're just reactionary welfare capitalists
Well that's precisely why Lenin's analysis of "opportunism" doesn't apply here. From my reading Lenin was saying that social democrats were poaching revolutionary communists for something that wasn't going to work. But AOC isn't poaching communists; she's poaching liberals into social democracy. That's not opportunism. You've got the order flipped around.

Asher King
Asher King

What exactly are you under the impression Lenin would have done in the US?

In our current political atmosphere, we have no real revolutionary party, small and weak worker organization, fledgling-at-best community organization where it even exists and nearly all political consciousness is in the electoral process. What's more, the American electoral franchise all but ensures that there's only two major political parties at any one time.

Aiden Nguyen
Aiden Nguyen

cumtown is better

Wyatt Young
Wyatt Young

Work almost exclusively at the state level. Once you have enough influence within a state government you can remove the barriers that prevent a worker's party from succeeding.

Luke Phillips
Luke Phillips

Well that's precisely why Lenin's analysis of "opportunism" doesn't apply here. From my reading Lenin was saying that social democrats were poaching revolutionary communists for something that wasn't going to work. But AOC isn't poaching communists; she's poaching liberals into social democracy. That's not opportunism. You've got the order flipped around.

There is no order here though neither of those people are leftist

Supporting social democract is supporting capitalism

Cooper Nguyen
Cooper Nguyen

What exactly are you under the impression Lenin would have done in the US?
Taken a box car to a revolutionary place like he did 100 years ago

Gavin Clark
Gavin Clark

But as you said, the material premises for a socialist revolution are absent.

Tyler Taylor
Tyler Taylor

and?

Chase Wright
Chase Wright

So what is to be done?

Jeremiah Moore
Jeremiah Moore

implying AOC isn't poaching communists either
Lol, all this talk of "democratic socialism" and how socialism is different from communism, what do you make of it? This is opportunism. This is distancing yourself from any objective analysis in order to appease labor aristocrats and petit-bourgeois coffee shop "socialists".

See this

Aaron Wilson
Aaron Wilson

There's hardly any real political consciousness at the state level and in many ways states can be even less democratic than the federal government.

Lenin didn't simply travel to wherever he thought was the most revolutionary. He was actively promoting revolutionary communist politics in his own country, Russia, which was widely considered to be the most reactionary of all the great powers.

Matthew Sanchez
Matthew Sanchez

Well that can be speculated upon

but killing revolutionary potential and supporting capital is definitely not the way to go

Mason Davis
Mason Davis

Study, organize, agitate. Lenin already answered this more than 100 years ago.
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/witbd/

Samuel Smith
Samuel Smith

Lenin didn't simply travel to wherever he thought was the most revolutionary. He was actively promoting revolutionary communist politics in his own country, Russia, which was widely considered to be the most reactionary of all the great powers.
what are you talking about there was more revolutionary actively going for for decades before the revolution

Easton Bailey
Easton Bailey

There was "revolutionary activity" going on in multiple countries. Lenin himself expressed surprise that Russia was the first to have a real revolution and trumped it up to it being the "weakest link" of the capitalist powers.

Joseph Cook
Joseph Cook

Also he has a complex about the midwest and will trash it any time the opportunity presents itself.

It's because he's a hicklib, and like all hicklib's he's got an inferiority complex because he wasn't born/raised in one of the "hip, diverse, enlightened" coastal megacities.
Ugh, anyone else leave their home town because it was filled with racist, inbred magachuds?

Adrian Clark
Adrian Clark

Simultaneously trigger libs for being "Russian puppets"

Really? IIRC even they conceded that Trump was "probably" compromised in the early days of Russiagate, but he was so feckless and incompetent even the Russkies couldn't control. Funny to watch them do a 180 and "nuh nuh nuh we always thought it was a bullshit spook conspiracy lmao"

Logan Parker
Logan Parker

Junkies that don't want to work to make a living

Angel Morales
Angel Morales

As they've become more mainstream they've started to tolerate larger amounts of democratic party bullshit. I assume that they do this intentionally in order to avoid scaring curious libs off.

Daniel Perry
Daniel Perry

But they've always been "mainstream". They had fucking Tim Heidecker on one of their early podcasts. At the end of the day they're just larping NYC hipster libs, and their views reflect that of their wider social circle (i.e. other larping NYC hipster libs)

Luis Watson
Luis Watson

I haven't come across a single American on the internet that was a decent communist (if you think you can change my mind then do it).

They all are idealistic, hyperindividualist, barely know history and support their homegrown intelligence agencie's position more often than not. Amerikaks are truly a cancer (see: Reddit's "leftists").

That being said, CTH is SOMEWHAT tolerable and at times funny. But their fanbase is full of anarkiddies and demsocs - a truly disgusting community of idealist liberals. The worst thing is them circlejerking about not having read Marx and reading theory being a waste of time while themselves being obsessed with Twitter drama. And these stupid fucks upvote each other too.

Stupidpol is also filled with socdems and demsocs right now. I recently came across literal Kim Jong Un Kills Gorillions tier posts. Lmfao.

Michael Parenti, Richard Wolff, Grover Furr, Jimmy Dore, Glenn Greenwald, Abby Martin, maybe even fucking Roo - these are the decent ones, plus a few others. Add black Americans like Assata Shakur and Mumia and some indigenous activists as well. But the rest of the US left? They can go kill themselves to stop ruining it for the rest of us (im srs). You guys are ruining english online leftist discourse.

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Jacob Watson
Jacob Watson

I see the same thing from people in the south. It's annoying as fuck. They act like they're better than everyone else living down here.

Nicholas James
Nicholas James

jealous?

Lincoln Parker
Lincoln Parker

Fuck your gatekeeping, that's why left politics died out. Take what you have to push the overton window left.

Kayden Reyes
Kayden Reyes

this time socdems are gonna save us
100 years after rosa got killed

When will americans learn

Jack Wilson
Jack Wilson

when will Americans learn
never.

James Campbell
James Campbell

Fuck your gatekeeping, that's why left politics died out. Take what you have to push the overton window left.

No its actually the opposite.
Leftism died about because they stopped being revolutionary and switched to reformism

Oliver Myers
Oliver Myers

Let's all take a moment to remember the "Socialist" Party (Debs) trying to shit on the IWW for representing "anarchistic Jacobinism" and "bummery"

Andrew Morgan
Andrew Morgan

heh

Ayden Campbell
Ayden Campbell

Nothing personal kid

Bentley Morales
Bentley Morales

I'm not American.
Good luck being "revolutionary" against the modern surveillance state without 70-85% support at least. Especially in the US which is basically a fascist state in disguise.

Joshua Adams
Joshua Adams

kys cuck

Thomas Stewart
Thomas Stewart

Good luck being "revolutionary" against the modern surveillance state without 70-85% support at least.
making up numbers now?
Especially in the US which is basically a fascist state in disguise.
wew lad thats funny

Adam Howard
Adam Howard

Ok, please give a really brief summary how you can overthrow the US government by revolutionary forces with less than a half of the country's support. Considering quite fascist US army, national guard, police, and wide population's support of these entities.

Adam Brooks
Adam Brooks

Ok, please give a really brief summary how you can overthrow the US government by revolutionary forces with less than a half of the country's support
not today cia

Jason Baker
Jason Baker

This guy is pol in disguise, shitty disguise at that, in the other thread he’s posting infagraphics about how being gay is a mental illness

Joseph Ward
Joseph Ward

<everyone I disagree with is pol

Ian Reed
Ian Reed

No, I'm not and I'm not right-wing. Reformists exist, relax.

Xavier Martin
Xavier Martin

yes

Sebastian Moore
Sebastian Moore

I'm far to the left of them, but I honestly enjoy their podcast. can we stop talking about them though? If they introduce normies to the left let them. I think they're pretty funny, and that Matt Christman and Amber Frost are on the track to something decent.

Connor Garcia
Connor Garcia

Most revolutions are fought with only 3-10% of the country.

Jack Thompson
Jack Thompson

Read Lenin and stop being autists. Stop pretending that you're not just standing behind AOC because you're thirsty bitches. You would vote for her with tho hands if she flashed her tits.

Jaxson Rivera
Jaxson Rivera

I mean she's basically just a congresswoman from Queens, right? It's not a big deal. Reminds me of Vito Marcantonio in a way. If I lived in her district I'd vote for her but there's a lot of media blah blah blah or "how the left should orienate to AOC" but that's a big distraction I think.

Isaac Turner
Isaac Turner

although in one of the last episodes they really started to reconsider their love for AOC

Hudson Bailey
Hudson Bailey

I'm a bit out of the loop on Burger politics, mostly to guard my own mental health. Could someone fill me in on AOC, and why she's a shithead? I haven't read the GND but from what I gather seems pretty decent for Burgerstand standards.

Xavier Miller
Xavier Miller

I'm a bit out of the loop on Burger politics, mostly to guard my own mental health. Could someone fill me in on AOC, and why she's a shithead? I haven't read the GND but from what I gather seems pretty decent for Burgerstand standards.

She's a liberal and people support her because shes hot.
Not a leftist in the slightest

Zachary Martinez
Zachary Martinez

cumtown is just people shooting shit, there's nothing informative about that show.

Isaiah Lee
Isaiah Lee

I've studied the history of Russian evolution. For example, the technological progress and the speed of the state's response complicate Lenin's "let's capture postal services and telegraph" approach.

Again, I'm not American and I'm also asexual. AOC could be an overweight fedora-wearing katana master and I would still be glad to see someone like him in the shitlib Democratic party.

Real leftists come later, I repeat: move the overton window with socdems to make socialism more acceptable in the McCarthyism-infested US society. Of course, elect a true socialist if a chance arises but so far there are not many.

Jayden Phillips
Jayden Phillips

Real leftists come later, I repeat: move the overton window with socdems to make socialism more acceptable in the McCarthyism-infested US society. Of course, elect a true socialist if a chance arises but so far there are not many.

Socdems don't move the "overton windows"(That is assuming you even accept the idea of an overton window)
Socdems are not leftists by any means there is no sliding scale and socdem is next to communist.

Josiah Sanchez
Josiah Sanchez

The Overton window definitely exists has moved rightward. Purism is a cancer. Have you ever actually been involved in organising? Nobody who is has this attitude

Sebastian Gonzalez
Sebastian Gonzalez

I have read Lenin. Lenin supporter reformism so that the proletariat could see it’s limitations.

Noah Cruz
Noah Cruz

spontaneous revolution of the working class soon comrade

John Cruz
John Cruz

The Overton window definitely exists has moved rightward.
In what areas? In what time frame?
The "overton" window if you're going to accept it has moved Left away from monarchy in favor of what we have now. You know Marxism? Slave society>Feudal>Capitalism>Socialism>Communism?

purism is a cancer. Have you ever actually been involved in organising? Nobody who is has this attitude
this is Marxism not purism.

I have read Lenin. Lenin supporter reformism so that the proletariat could see it’s limitations.
Lenin supported reforms not reformism. The reforms he supported were already in a revolutionary state.
Lenin did not advocate trying to work within the tzarist system

spontaneous revolution of the working class soon comrade
yes

James Edwards
James Edwards

Careful, spontaneous protests and revolutions can easily be co-opted by the far-right. Its what happened to Brazil in 2013.

Adam Ramirez
Adam Ramirez

I think the precipitating event was her "calling-in" ilhan omar for being anti-semetic over omar's criticism on aipac. the whole thing made aoc look like a retard

Austin Cooper
Austin Cooper

I've already suggested in the other thread yesterday but let's stop USSR circlejerk for a moment and read a bit of Chilean history where socdem Partido Radical moved the overton left, making Allende acceptable (he successfully participated in two elections before winning on the third try).

Overall, Chile is much more relevant and modern example of a transition to socialism, including the Cybersyn project and the CIA trying to paralyze your economy.

Nathan Cook
Nathan Cook

I've already suggested in the other thread yesterday but let's stop USSR circlejerk for a moment and
There is no USSR circle jerk. I am speaking about Lenin because he was mentioned, a farcry from "USSR" circle jerk.

read a bit of Chilean history where socdem Partido Radical moved the overton left, making Allende acceptable (he successfully participated in two elections before winning on the third try).
lol right the ONLY marxist to ever be elected in a liberal democracy, one data point(that failed 2 years later) really proves your point. it doesn't.
Also there was no shift in any sort of "overton window" he actually got less votes in 1970 than previous years there was just a third party running stealing votes from the other party.
Also that didn't really end up too well for him.

Overall, Chile is much more relevant and modern example of a transition to socialism, including the Cybersyn project and the CIA trying to paralyze your economy.
It is an example of that you cannot reform into socialism. Thanks for pointing out an utter failure.

Landon King
Landon King

In what areas? In what time frame?
The US and Europe lets say since the 2007 financial crash.

The "overton" window if you're going to accept it has moved Left away from monarchy in favor of what we have now. You know Marxism?
it is so, so painful when people with an utterly vulgar understanding of Marxism do the whole "i am the ultimate marxist thing" its not a direct linear definite path, it has peaks and troughs, back and forward, reaction and action, dialects y'know.

this is Marxism not purism.
what is Marxism and not purism? Refusing to work within the electoral system at all?

Got a thing to tell you about what Marx advocated in his day buddy

Lenin supported reforms not reformism.
semantics. The conditions in the US are extremely different to the russian revolution. You can work on both reforms and revolutionary praxis at the same time. Attack on all fronts.

spontaneity.

is how i know you've never organised shit in your life. You fail to understand the necessity of struggle in forming revolutionary organisations, the proletariat must struggle in order to become conscious of their surroundings, it is only in struggling against them that they see their true nature and it is only in seeing their true nature that they can come to an understanding of what is needed to overcome it. The Russian revolution happened in 2917 but really there was 20+ years of direct struggle before this could happen. Ever militia and soviet was formed and developed through this struggle.

Recent history should show you what happens to spontaneous "revolutions". They are co-opted, liberalised and subverted, the organisations are not strong enough to be able to with stand any kind of subversion or attack. The workers have not struggled in order to become concious of such subversions.

It takes time and dedication to develop and organise solidarity.

Look at occupy wall st, for example, complete failure. Interesting experiment but at the end of the day nothing was achieved.

Easton Bailey
Easton Bailey

It is an example of that you cannot reform into socialism. Thanks for pointing out an utter failure.

And USSR is example that revolution gets you Stalin that fucks everything up, kills people he doesn't like, and dooms the whole project.

Studying the mistakes of Allende in 71-73 is useful for 2019, while dreaming about gettin all the events of 1917 together is not.

Elijah Nguyen
Elijah Nguyen

Its an example of why you should arm your unions.

A third party shows the disinteigration of the forces of reaction which is a shift leftward

Jonathan Sanders
Jonathan Sanders

The US and Europe lets say since the 2007 financial crash.
10 years is barely anything in the lifespan of capitalism.
We are just as capitalist now as we were in 2007

it is so, so painful when people with an utterly vulgar understanding of Marxism do the whole "i am the ultimate marxist thing"
no where did I say this
its not a direct linear definite path, it has peaks and troughs, back and forward, reaction and action, dialects y'know.
you haven't described dialects here though.

what is Marxism and not purism? Refusing to work within the electoral system at all?
Got a thing to tell you about what Marx advocated in his day buddy
Just as Marx supported capitalism as a progressive force against feudalism. Today that is no longer the case capitalism and bourgeois democracy are reactionary forces against the proletariat

semantics.
Umm no.
The conditions in the US are extremely different to the russian revolution. You can work on both reforms and revolutionary praxis at the same time. Attack on all fronts.

No you cannot.

is how i know you've never organised shit in your life.
lol this is not an argument
You fail to understand the necessity of struggle in forming revolutionary organisations, the proletariat must struggle in order to become conscious of their surroundings, it is only in struggling against them that they see their true nature and it is only in seeing their true nature that they can come to an understanding of what is needed to overcome it. The Russian revolution happened in 2917 but really there was 20+ years of direct struggle before this could happen. Ever militia and soviet was formed and developed through this struggle.
Yes I agree. What you said is more in line with what I am promoting than you

Recent history should show you what happens to spontaneous "revolutions". They are co-opted, liberalised and subverted, the organisations are not strong enough to be able to with stand any kind of subversion or attack. The workers have not struggled in order to become concious of such subversions.

do you have examples? I don't think anyone would support a revolution lacking class consciousness if you can even call that a revolution.

Look at occupy wall st, for example, complete failure. Interesting experiment but at the end of the day nothing was achieved.
Just because some communists and anarchists show up at events like that does not negate the fact it was sponsored by neo libs

And USSR is example that revolution gets you Stalin that fucks everything up, kills people he doesn't like, and dooms the whole project.
<muh ebil boogy man Stalin.
You mean defeating fascism and scaring the entire capitalist work while spreading socialism more so than anyone else in history?

Studying the mistakes of Allende in 71-73 is useful for 2019, while dreaming about gettin all the events of 1917 together is not.

A marxist in power for ~2 years then fails. vs the largest Communist revolution in history which lead to the popularization and spread of Marxism throughout the whole world. hmm I wounder which we should try to emulate.

Its an example of why you should arm your unions.
A third party shows the disinteigration of the forces of reaction which is a shift leftward
what?

Nicholas James
Nicholas James

10 years is barely anything in the lifespan of capitalism.
"There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen"

no where did I say this
implied with the "you know marxism"

you haven't described dialects here though.
more so than simply saying " Slave society>Feudal>Capitalism>Socialism>Communism? "

Today that is no longer the case capitalism and bourgeois democracy are reactionary forces against the proletariat
they hard bourgeiose democracy in Marxs time it was from within this system he was advocating for reforms as one front. He believed you could potentially use bourgeious democracy for communism in the right conditions.

Umm no.
if you actually make a counter argument i will be happy to answer
No you cannot.
this is just completely obtuse, you haven't made an argument you've just denied what iv'e said with no further explanation. You can on the one hand push for reforms while on the other organising the proletariat into revolutionary organisations. Almost every communist party ever has done this.

lol this is not an argument
better than "ummm…no" and "no you cannot" with no further qualification. You haven't have you though.

Yes I agree. What you said is more in line with what I am promoting than you
and during that time they were pushing for reform in the immediate and revolution in the long term.

do you have examples? I don't think anyone would support a revolution lacking class consciousness if you can even call that a revolution.
arab spring, euromaidan, occupy, etc.

Just because some communists and anarchists show up at events like that does not negate the fact it was sponsored by neo libs

it was organised by Anarchists. Which neolibes sponsored it initially exactly? This kind of furthers what i am saying. Spontaneity is always subverted.

Also on the one hand you've argued for spontaneity and on the other for 20+ years of struggle so which is it?

Alexander Scott
Alexander Scott

"There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen"
congratulations more misquoting and misrepresenting my argument. You're shitposting now.

implied with the "you know marxism"
yes I was speaking about marxist concepts

more so than simply saying " Slave society>Feudal>Capitalism>Socialism>Communism? "
you just said something about linear paths and called it dialectics . I was speaking of Marx's concept of societal progress which unlike what you said, is dialectics

they hard bourgeiose democracy in Marxs time it was from within this system he was advocating for reforms as one front. He believed you could potentially use bourgeious democracy for communism in the right conditions.
Like I said that was a time when bourgeoisie democracy was a progressive force

if you actually make a counter argument i will be happy to answer
same with you. "semantics" is not an argument

this is just completely obtuse, you haven't made an argument you've just denied what iv'e said with no further explanation
You mean what you just did with asserting something with no actual argument? :^)

You can on the one hand push for reforms while on the other organising the proletariat into revolutionary organisations. Almost every communist party ever has done this.
Like I've already said before they do thing over 100 years ago when social democracy was a progressive force against the current order OR they do it in a revolutionary context. i.e. they soviet participation in the provisional government prior the their own revolution.

better than "ummm…no" and "no you cannot" with no further qualification. You haven't have you though.
you're still not making an argument.

and during that time they were pushing for reform in the immediate and revolution in the long term.
I've responded to this already.

arab spring, euromaidan, occupy, etc.
are you just assuming any sort of revolt or regime change = communist revolution? it doesn't.

it was organised by Anarchists. Which neolibes sponsored it initially exactly? This kind of furthers what i am saying. Spontaneity is always subverted.
wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203833004577249811049566178

Also on the one hand you've argued for spontaneity and on the other for 20+ years of struggle so which is it?
Situation dependent

Easton James
Easton James

You mean defeating fascism and scaring the entire capitalist work while spreading socialism more so than anyone else in history?

The ends don't justify the means.

Grayson Bennett
Grayson Bennett

The ends don't justify the means.
I'm saying the good out ways the bad

Joshua Thompson
Joshua Thompson

congratulations more misquoting and misrepresenting my argument.
how is this either of these two things. I was quoting lenin.

yes I was speaking about marxist concepts
yes and impyling i dont understand them

you just said something about linear paths and called it dialectics

"its not a direct linear definite path, it has peaks and troughs, back and forward, reaction and action, dialects y'know. " Is what i said. Dialectics is push and pull, back and forth, not straight progression.

The resolution of contradictions.

I was speaking of Marx's concept of societal progress which unlike what you said, is dialectics

"Slave society>Feudal>Capitalism>Socialism>Communism?"

there is nothing dialectical in this statement.

Like I said that was a time when bourgeoisie democracy was a progressive force

it was as progressive in his time as it is now.

same with you. "semantics" is not an argument

he argued for reform in certain situations and this is somehow not a certain brand of reformism. Yes that is semantics.

You mean what you just did with asserting something with no actual argument?

" You can on the one hand push for reforms while on the other organising the proletariat into revolutionary organisations. Almost every communist party ever has done this. "

was my argument

Like I've already said before they do thing over 100 years ago when social democracy was a progressive force against the current order OR they do it in a revolutionary context. i.e. they soviet participation in the provisional government prior the their own revolution.
this is still doing it. They still support reforms under certain conditions while engaging also in organisation of the proletariat. So, as i advocate for candidates such as AOC, i am also part of tenant and trade union organising among other things.

are you just assuming any sort of revolt or regime change = communist revolution? it doesn't.
no im saying there has never been a spontaeneous communist revolution, for this reason. All spontaeneous "revolutions" are liberal, revolutions take organisation.

wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203833004577249811049566178

so they eventually got corporate support that doesn't mean it was organised by neoliberals.

Situation dependent
no give me one concrete example of a spontaenous communist revolution.

Matthew Morris
Matthew Morris

how is this either of these two things. I was quoting lenin.
oh ok
and?
yes and impyling i dont understand them
you were demonstrating that

"its not a direct linear definite path, it has peaks and troughs, back and forward, reaction and action, dialects y'know. " Is what i said. Dialectics is push and pull, back and forth, not straight progression.
The resolution of contradictions.

Marx's view of societal progress is a straight progression. We are not going to fall back to monarchy

"Slave society>Feudal>Capitalism>Socialism>Communism?"
there is nothing dialectical in this statement.
That's Marxist dialectic.
More proof of your ignorance of basic marxist concepts

it was as progressive in his time as it is now.
proof?

he argued for reform in certain situations and this is somehow not a certain brand of reformism. Yes that is semantics.
its not

" You can on the one hand push for reforms while on the other organising the proletariat into revolutionary organisations. Almost every communist party ever has done this. "
was my argument
Like I've already said before they do thing over 100 years ago when social democracy was a progressive force against the current order OR they do it in a revolutionary context. i.e. they soviet participation in the provisional government prior the their own revolution.

this is still doing it. They still support reforms under certain conditions while engaging also in organisation of the proletariat. So, as i advocate for candidates such as AOC, i am also part of tenant and trade union organising among other things.
But that isn't what is happening today

no im saying there has never been a spontaeneous communist revolution, for this reason. All spontaeneous "revolutions" are liberal, revolutions take organisation.
ok?

so they eventually got corporate support that doesn't mean it was organised by neoliberals.
i said it was sponsored by neo libs

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Samuel Bell
Samuel Bell

no give me one concrete example of a spontaenous communist revolution.
Paris Commune

William Davis
William Davis

They're pretty good. They are undoubtedly too social democratic for some people on here, but every now and then they will show some skepticism of reformist politics (mostly Matt) and they've been consistently anti-imperialist and haven't bought into regime change propaganda about Venezuela or Syria like other jacobin reading "socialists". Also they recently did a very pro-Cuba episode.

I also think they're funny. I understand their humor might not be everyones cup of tea but I enjoy it.

Chapo Trap House on internet socialism, leftism as subculture and identity politics
youtube.com/watch?v=e-28RP5lk88

Matt Christman of Chapo - Deaths Under Communism vs. Capitalism
youtube.com/watch?v=X_jpKgKmVgY

The hosts of CTH are actually a good deal more radical than their reputation as a "socdem podcast", but they're all in Democrat Cops of America and I know Will and Virgil seem to lean pretty hard demsoc (they keep talking about stacking the courts like a power move like that wouldn't immediately cause a coup attempt and/or a counterrevolution). Still, I think that if you started listening to this show under the impression that it was a social democrat podcast and then, for instance, heard Amber say that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a world-historic tragedy you'd be pretty confused.
Very much this.

that was a good episode.

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Camden Bennett
Camden Bennett

Is the slave empires thing all that real? I thought it was primitive communism -> feudalism, like maybe European tribes were at first. Even in ancient Egypt and China, weren't they more like feudal monarchies or something?

Jaxon Perez
Jaxon Perez

IDPOL NIGGERS

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Joshua Foster
Joshua Foster

id nig

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Charles Bailey
Charles Bailey

weren't they more like feudal monarchies or something?
They share some similarities which would develop into feudalism, just like how we see vestiges of feudalism persisting in capitalism today, but they weren't very much like feudal monarchies, no.

Liam Flores
Liam Flores

Is it fair to call them slave societies though? And if not, then what; mercantilism? In ancient Egypt I'm pretty sure that there were normal people and slaves separate from each other; not like everybody who wasn't in the ruling class a slave.

Justin Taylor
Justin Taylor

Is the slave empires thing all that real?
yes see every empire prior to the fall of Rome. roughly

I thought it was primitive communism -> feudalism
primitive communism would be before slave empires

Oliver Robinson
Oliver Robinson

Tbh I think that all the hate they get here is unfair. They’re demsocs sure, but they pretty clearly call out lib bullshit including imperialism. I’m honestly not sure why everybody here hates them so much.

Kayden Ramirez
Kayden Ramirez

oh ok and?
so according to Lenin ten years can make a huge difference to life of capitalism.

you were demonstrating that
this is now "i know you are but what am i" we are engaging in. But your whole attitude vis a vis the above comment where i was clearly quoting someone else is kinda indicative of where you are coming from. You're not here to discuss marxism.


Marx's view of societal progress is a straight progression.

Straight progression in long run, but forward and back in the short and medium term. We live in the short and medium term.

We are not going to fall back to monarchy
we might not, but consider at the time of the emergence of capitalism and the death of feudalism there a lot of deposing and reinstating of monarchs

French revolution is a good example.

That's Marxist dialectic.
More proof of your ignorance of basic marxist concepts

mate it just isn't. Dialectics is the synthesis between anti thesis and thesis, as these contradictions resolve, new contradictions emerge.

Sure Marx believed slave society to socialism but simply listing the various stages is not an explanation of the dialectical process.

proof of YOUR ignorance but again its " i know you are but what am i"


its not
again not giving any qualification.

But that isn't what is happening today
where? My local communist party does exactly this. Push for parliamentary reform as well as engage with unions.

Brody Diaz
Brody Diaz

Michael Parenti, Richard Wolff, Grover Furr, Jimmy Dore, Glenn Greenwald, Abby Martin, maybe even fucking Roo - these are the decent ones, plus a few others. Add black Americans like Assata Shakur and Mumia and some indigenous activists as well. But the rest of the US left? They can go kill themselves to stop ruining it for the rest of us (im srs). You guys are ruining english online leftist discourse.
my nigga

Zachary Rodriguez
Zachary Rodriguez

ok?

so you argree the idea of spontaniety is ridiculous

paris commune happened in a hotbed of radicalism among seasoned organised proletariat in the midst of a war just after/still in a civil war.

It was not spontaneous at all

Xavier Hill
Xavier Hill

glenn greenwald is a liberal

Evan Phillips
Evan Phillips

Michael Parenti, Richard Wolff, Grover Furr, Jimmy Dore, Glenn Greenwald, Abby Martin, maybe even fucking Roo
Add Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal and Rania Khalek to this list.

True, but he's still pretty based. I'd much rather have Greenwald on my team than some fucking idiot jacobin reading anarcho-liberal who repeats a bunch of state department talking points despite claiming to be a "socialist".

Jonathan Edwards
Jonathan Edwards

so according to Lenin ten years can make a huge difference to life of capitalism.
it hasn't this time

this is now "i know you are but what am i" we are engaging in.
So when I call you out on not understand basic marxism you get mad
But your whole attitude vis a vis the above comment where i was clearly quoting someone else is kinda indicative of where you are coming from. You're not here to discuss marxism.
That's what I've been doing this whole time

Straight progression in long run, but forward and back in the short and medium term. We live in the short and medium term.
ok and?

we might not, but consider at the time of the emergence of capitalism and the death of feudalism there a lot of deposing and reinstating of monarchs
Yes, Marx does say that some remnants of the old world are left over.

mate it just isn't. Dialectics is the synthesis between anti thesis and thesis, as these contradictions resolve, new contradictions emerge.
holy shit I just described the Marxist dialectic and your response is no that isn't it.
Just read Kapital you're beyond not knowing Marxism you're now just ignoring basic concepts.

where? My local communist party does exactly this. Push for parliamentary reform as well as engage with unions.
souns like a bunch of liberalism

paris commune happened in a hotbed of radicalism among seasoned organised proletariat in the midst of a war just after/still in a civil war.
It was not spontaneous at all

it was spontaneous. High levels of radicalism and a civil war does not negate this

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Anthony Nguyen
Anthony Nguyen

What does Zig Forums think of these critiques of Chapo Trap House.
ohtarzie.wordpress.com/2017/03/20/if-it-quacks-like-a-fascist/
doloresvek.wordpress.com/2017/07/24/chapo-trap-house/
Is this legitimate, or Trot pearl clutching?

I really hate Chapo Trap House but I really bristle at "playing with fascist spirits" line. Since it's the type of moral panic liberals use to smear everything from videogames and violent movies to distract from the real causes of violence like alienation and poverty.
I don't think using fascist iconography makes any one into a fascist but certainly this stuff appeals to fascists. In the same way I don't think slasher flicks drove anyone to murder, but I'll be damned if those movies don't draw sociopaths to them.
Chapo to me, even from the very beginning, always struck me as deeply reactionary. I ironically they seem even more racist and sexist then the alt-right in many ways.
What immediately struck me about Chapo culture right away is how similar it was to Rush Limbaugh's. I'll list them:
#1 The use of irony. Whenever Rush Limbaugh would suffer public backlash from something especially hateful he would always proclaim it a "MEDIA TWEAK". Basically he said he was trolling and didn't mean what he said. That he was simply trying to prove how overly sensitive the media and public were, and how ready they were to over react to an obvious joke.
For some reason Chapo seems to think they invited this idea. And plenty of people have noticed who Chapo and their fans always try to hide behind irony to shield themselves from criticism. To the point where it's often hard to tell with detail, where they stand on some issues.
#2 Purposefully dense, contradictory and confusing culture to understand. One of Rush Limbaugh's favor defense was that "his words were taken out of context". This was an especially good defense pre internet because his shows ran every weekday and were 3 hours long. Any critic of Limbaugh would have to waste almost half their waking hours to convincingly overcome this defense.
It wasn't until mediamatter.org began paying people to listen and transcribe the whole show everyday, did this defense really start to fall apart.
It's telling that Chapo's show's are also as long, and come out almost as often. I believe the regular free show is weekly, but paying customers get a bonus show, and there's been a least one podcast spin off. Chapo puts a new twist on Rush's tactic. They will actually sometimes cover stories that support the left, and their listeners will cite these as proof that Chapo really is a left wing podcast. But the VAST majority of their content I would describe as liberal, as well as just being vapid, like their constant coverage of Twitter drama.

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Jordan Bell
Jordan Bell

F

Sebastian Green
Sebastian Green

. I ironically they seem even more racist and sexist then the alt-right in many ways.
What makes you think that?

Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson

Haven't read the articles but calling them fascists is absolutely fucking stupid. The strongest critique you could make of them is that they're only liberals LARPing as socialists (which I don't think is quite true either), but in no way are they fascists. Dumbest shit I've heard today.

Jace Sanders
Jace Sanders

#3 Just like Rush Limbaugh, whenever someone try's to hold him accountable for being a major political influencer, he would always say "He's just an entertainer." and that his show isn't political.
Even parties sympathetic to Chapo have criticized their show for being too long, having some episodes really just being long meandering self indulgent podcasts, something else this show shares with Rush or their over coverage of irrelevant topics like Twitter drama, or the bashing of some right wing no body with little to no influence. When faced with this Chapo and their fans use the "We have to be entertaining" defense. That people won't listen to the show and listen to the important issues they do cover if they don't heavily coat the medicine with sugar.
#3 Cult of personality. Dittoheads are what Rush calls his fans. Essentially Rush's fans agree with everything he says. And boy are Chapo fans guilty of this. All Chapo's political analysis is held as Gospel by fans. The cult of personality goes the other way too. The totally paint the right as cartoonish political actors. They bolster the "Trump bad man" narrative, even though he's the natural result of the GoP's Southern Strategy.
They give cover to reactionaries, especially right wing white people. The worst one was the narrative they pushed right after Trump's election that many Backstabbin' Bernie primary voters, voted from Trump because he actually talked about how NAFTA hurt workers.
There's no evidence of this, and reactionary white working class proles that would cut off their nose to spite their face have been a thing since the days of chattel slavery.
In fact, since Hilary, as terrible as she was, still beat Trump in the popular vote by an astonishing 2 million votes, suggests that Bernie supports held their nose and voted for Hilary.
Oh and Chapo uses a bunch of their own words for things that already have widely used names. Like "CHUD" which has this vague meaning of "Republican" although again, the meaning is kept purposefully vague to maintain plausible deniability about it's real meaning. They don't want to use the word "Republican" because that would force their mostly liberal, landed and most likely Republican base, to do some serious soul searching. They'd have to see much of their own family for the deep reactionaries that they are.
Oh and I remember when Chapo said the alt-right was anti-war, because they were against the Iraq War. Even though the Iraq War had been clearly a disaster to even laymen by 2016. And these same alt-right assholes were the ones that advocated for the fucking war to begin with.

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Gavin Foster
Gavin Foster

Even parties sympathetic to Chapo have criticized their show for being too long, having some episodes really just being long meandering
Is this supposed to be a legit critique? they are just some fucking podcast guys, nothing to make a big deal about

Cameron Anderson
Cameron Anderson

Well, this "They're just podcasts guys" or as Rush says "I'm just an entertainer" is a trait they share with Rush.
I think it's bullshit because both groups are the most influential people in the culture of the right and left.

Jackson Sullivan
Jackson Sullivan

I don't get it. Their shows are too long? They're usually around an hour which is pretty standard for podcasts. Pointing out that it's "just a podcast" makes them like Rush Limbaugh? This is the weirdest fucking Chapo criticism I've ever encountered.

Alexander Johnson
Alexander Johnson

#4 Their use of fascist iconography. Even though I don't believe the devil bottle theory of fascist culture. I none the less believe that Chapo and their fanbase hold fascist sympathies. They very politically savy and are well away that liberal's have absolutely abused cultural critique to the point that people reflexively defend "free speech" because they think it's yet another moral panic.
Chapo have deftly used this meta narrative and have "ironically" used fascist imagery as a form of trolling and protest against past liberal moral panics.
Yeah, sorry this is stunningly arrogant. As a Mexican their very name bothered me from the beginning. The "Chapo" is Chapo Trap House is obviously a reference to "El Chapo Guzman" the most infamous drug kingpin in Mexico.
The fact that these smug woke liberals used his name of all people, show's how racists these born and bread limousine liberals are.
El Chapo Guzman has racketeered the death of 10's of thousands of Mexicans, from women, to children, to completely innocent men. This isn't something that happened 60 years ago like WWII, the families of all these slaughtered victims are still alive.
And sorry, they very obviously do believe that using this fascist imagery is giving them social power. All their fans have named themselves something fascist, I've seen Twitter handles like "NKVD these nuts" and the like.
These same assholes would not be laughing at Hitler, or Nazi meme, but somehow memeing "El Chapo Guzman" along with a whole host of other lesser know war criminals, is okay. It's obviously because their victims were not white.
I love edgy humor, but there is a fine line between laughing with pain, and laughing at pain. Every good "edgy" comedy know this and is reverent of it in everything part of their act. The "no holds barred" appearance is just that, an illusion.
Much like their alt-right kin, they want to indulge in the reactionary part of fascism while shielding themselves from the social consequence by calling it "irony".
The name "Chapo" is just one of many offenses.

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Aaron Hernandez
Aaron Hernandez

I've listened to about 15 of their shows. Every single one of them was over an hours long, and a few were over 2 hours long. Also they come out with shows several times a week.
In addition you're supposed to follow their social media presence to "get" their irony. Add it all up and it gets close to the time commitment of Rush Limbaugh.

Cooper Rodriguez
Cooper Rodriguez

THe got the name Chapo because it was the name of the mayor from their town or something like that. It's entirely unrelated to the drug lord.

Angel Miller
Angel Miller

No it's not, their intro song "I wanna be Chapo" is an ode to the kingpin. Just listen to the lyrics.

Julian Anderson
Julian Anderson

Not to mention their show logo is that of a DEA Drug enforcement unit. Just STFU Chapotard. It's fucking obviously a "El Chapo Guzzman" reference. This ain't Twitter, you aren't going to be able to push away reality by social consensus.

Carson Green
Carson Green

I went and checked the length of a few recent episodes and most of them are between 60 and 90 minutes. Regardless, this is a very silly critique. Making podcasts that are over an hour in length does not make one a fascist.

Ian Edwards
Ian Edwards

*They very politically savvy and are well aware that liberals have absolutely abused cultural critique to the point that people reflexively defend "free speech" because they think it's yet another moral panic.

Samuel Perry
Samuel Perry

Whoever wrote this is ruining a good critique with a pathological need to find fascism in everything they dislike. You see this trend amongst woke leftoids - everything that is bad has to be fascist in one way or another.

Levi Thomas
Levi Thomas

It's a way to obfuscate your political stance from any biting critique. I said that, stop trying to strawman what I'm saying Chapotard.

Jeremiah Ortiz
Jeremiah Ortiz

#5 Friendship simulator format of the show. Rush Limbaugh stops many times through out his show to speak to his audience in chatty, one-on-one way. It's not a monologue since he includes long pregnant pauses and dead air for the faux "response" from the listener.
Chapo is super guilty of this, though to be fair this is a trend in the over all podcast culture. None the less it's a weird creepy, cult of personality tactic.
It's not simply friendlyness either, Rush and Chapo talk as if you are listening to a conversation being held in your kitchen. I see AoC do this to with her weekly videos, cooking and other bullshit while talking policy. It's so obviously trying to prey on alienation.

Christopher Howard
Christopher Howard

#5 Friendship simulator format of the show. Rush Limbaugh stops many times through out his show to speak to his audience in chatty, one-on-one way. It's not a monologue since he includes long pregnant pauses and dead air for the faux "response" from the listener.

Chapo is super guilty of this, though to be fair this is a trend in the over all podcast culture. None the less it's a weird creepy, cult of personality tactic.

It's not simply friendlyness either, Rush and Chapo talk as if you are listening to a conversation being held in your kitchen. I see AoC do this to with her weekly videos, cooking and other bullshit while talking policy. It's so obviously trying to prey on alienation.
This is literally ever single celebrity on the internet.

Carter Hughes
Carter Hughes

I'm not finding anything, I think Chapo fans have fascist sympathies. I don't think every fan of slasher flicks is a sociopath, but you better damn well believe that many sociopaths love slasher flicks.
All cats are animals, but not all animals are cats. In this case replace cats with fascists and you get my meaning.

Noah Powell
Noah Powell

If everyone does something, it ceases to be predatory.
Chapotards actually believe this.

Josiah Bailey
Josiah Bailey

These same assholes would not be laughing at Hitler, or Nazi meme
I listened to their Silicon Valley episode yesterday and there were two jokes like this.

One was about Hitler growing up and thinking like SV "innovators" that jews are a problem that bothers him, if only there could be some gas molecule to solve it efficiently…

The other is a more subtle reference while mocking a libertarian "Eternal regulator spreads his tentacles over the world, drinking the blood of innovators' children".

Connor Cox
Connor Cox

Bunch of radlibs with a red fetish, except Amber, she's the only genuine socialist there.

Brody Diaz
Brody Diaz

They don't want to use the word "Republican" because that would force their mostly liberal, landed and most likely Republican base, to do some serious soul searching.
every time it turns out the chapo haters are either lunatics like this guy or the "hey guys I don't like idpol those damn FAGS and TRANNIES and DYKES and NIGGERS and KIKES hehehe" variety

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Andrew Moore
Andrew Moore

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Julian Lewis
Julian Lewis

i think on the zero books podcast they said that they would be fine with reform over revolution. might be wrong though.

Parker Reyes
Parker Reyes

i fucking love amber so much. everytime she's on an episode the chapo sub gets mad as hell.

Jack Perez
Jack Perez

I'm saying every single online celebrity pretends to be friends with their fans, it's extremely common, it's either to show genuine gratitude or to create an atmosphere of a real friendship.

William Long
William Long

Are you a dog? Cos that's the most black and white analysis of American politics ive seen in a while.
Pushing libs further left is an inaurguably good thing, stop being such an idealist. You don't just push American liberals to full on Marxism instantly, there has to be a transitional period. Read a book, utopian.
Polite sage for Eceleb thread

William Powell
William Powell

Jimmy Dore
If you unironically think Jimmy is anything more than a useful idiot for leftism idek what to say
Just hear him talk about >le freedom of speech, his views on antifa its the bog standered liberal take, and his Chomsky dick sucking.

Sebastian Parker
Sebastian Parker

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Parker Sanders
Parker Sanders

Of course he's a vulgar Marxist at best. Still is anti-imperialist which is my litmus test (a test a lot of anarkiddies fail).

Asher Cooper
Asher Cooper

Just hear him talk about >le freedom of speech
Supporting the principle of freedom of speech is not in any way at odds with being a leftist. "The left is against free speech" is a meme started by right wing burgers that burger "leftists" started believing. American politics is such a fucking embarrassing shitshow.

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Asher Wood
Asher Wood

his views on antifa its the bog standered liberal take
Don't know what he has said about them but american antifa are not particularly great…

Chomsky dick sucking.
To my knowledge he mostly references Chomsky when talking about the American media and American imperialism, and Chomsky has done a lot of great work in those areas. I'm starting to suspect you're just a posturing faggot.

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John Ramirez
John Ramirez

Still is anti-imperialist which is my litmus test (a test a lot of anarkiddies fail).
Same. I prefer liberals and socdems who are staunchly anti-imperialist over anarchists, trots and leftcoms who aren't (or worse, pat themselves on the back for being "anti-anti-imperialists").

Brandon Morales
Brandon Morales

shes a gun grabber. I used to be in a facebook chat group she was in. Edgy succdem tier

Joseph Sanders
Joseph Sanders

it hasn't this time
so there has been no change in the political atmosphere since 2007? What is this fukuyama shit

So when I call you out on not understand basic marxism you get mad
yes, it is a basic and not a developed understanding you are giving.

That's what I've been doing this whole time
by refusing to accept how dialectics work..

ok and?
so there are changes in the political climate even while it remains a capitalist mode of production, which is what we have been arguing about.

Yes, Marx does say that some remnants of the old world are left over.
so there is back and fourth then and its not direct linear progression.

Just read Kapital you're beyond not knowing Marxism you're now just ignoring basic concepts.
how on earth is describing dialectics, which you have now admitted are historically accurate, ignoring basic concepts?

souns like a bunch of liberalism

an organising within trade unions is liberalism now….. you are coping so hard mate.

it was spontaneous. High levels of radicalism and a civil war does not negate this

Hi levels of ORGANISATION, the organised workers made a move, that's not spontaneous

Dylan Stewart
Dylan Stewart

Jimmy dore is literally retarded

Benjamin White
Benjamin White

Chapo is smarter than Jimmy Dore but they made a devils bargain with the IdPol left they used to challenge in order to expand their brand
Jimmy is kind of a slow boomer but he's pretty anti idpol and has had a lot of good guests on thay,chapo would probably never talk to. Unfortunately he also kind of made his own devils bargain with Buchananites and thus has a lot of openly fascist or nazbol type followers

Jackson Gomez
Jackson Gomez

This is not necessarily only a bad thing.

We should cast a wide net. Having impressionable, even sympathetic people with some reactionary ideas be exposed to Marxist ideas and concepts is a good thing. I've red pilled some chapo fags, and I believe I've just redpilled my very first fascist on a different forum (he conceded to my every argument, and in the end made just the sort of a post I always make when I begin to see the truth but need some time to change my mind on my own terms. here's hoping.)

If you can reach out to idpol types and redlibs, that's good, if you can reach out to nazbol types that's good too. Especially when dealing with Burgers we should set our initial expectations low and work on strategies to help them beat their retardation.

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Eli Murphy
Eli Murphy

I understand what you mean but in america the vast majority of people into idpol on both the "Left" and Right are beyond saving cuz they don't have any convictions to begin with. Like maybe 2 percent of them actually think that shit is a coherent political philosophy the rest are just using it because it's easy to pick up and even easier to use to make a career/online presence/cult out of in this stage of hyper neoliberal capitalism.

We should focus more on converting apolitical working class people because both types of IdPol speed are usually bourgeoisie or lumpen as fuck as well

Samuel Evans
Samuel Evans

I agree that the apolitical mass of workers should be our main focus, but I think we shouldn't be afraid of interacting with idpol types too, and when we have people who can reach them we should encourage that.

I'm also not so sure we aren't just a tad bit too cynical about Burger idpollers on this board. I can only interact with Burgers through the internet, but most of my interactions so far reinforce my experience with people IRL. If you work to identify the crux of the persons concerns, and help them feel secure you understand them, they'll be much more open to you and drop at least the most obnoxious idpolling. It's a method I've found successful with most people. People it doesn't work on are beyond salvation, but that's usually not the case with the rank and file radlibs and reactionaries (provided they're working class).

Jose Watson
Jose Watson

If you don’t like my Chapo waifus your a Nazi.
Imagine believing this.

Levi Sanders
Levi Sanders

One was about Hitler growing up and thinking like SV "innovators" that jews are a problem that bothers him, if only there could be some gas molecule to solve it efficiently…
That joke doesn’t flatter Hitler, while most of their fascist jokes do, “ironically”.
And again with this liberal dualism. Doing something once doesn’t abolish you of all the antithetical bullshit you pulled before. Saw this in the 90s with Tupac. “He doesn’t hate women, he wrote ‘Dear Mama’”.
Get the fuck outta her with this apologist bullshit

Jeremiah Cook
Jeremiah Cook

Engaging in the nonsense quackery surrounding soy that’s promoted by the far-right while having a weirdly hyperbolic allergy to left-wing social issues makes you crypto-fash, yes.

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Carson Anderson
Carson Anderson

From the Chapo sub

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Brayden Carter
Brayden Carter

A manifesto against logic, facts, and reason
Who the fuck though this was a good idea to put on their book. Sounds like a eighteenth century reactionary.

Liam Carter
Liam Carter

It's "irony". I like chapo but I think they gave away way too much to people like Ben Shapiro, Sam Harris, etc. by naming their book that, even if it's supposed to be a joke.

Alexander Evans
Alexander Evans

Because their sense of humour is to live up to all the nightmares the right wingers have about them. This is also the reason for all the gay stuff (though hog out or logout is legit funny) found on their sub. They're literally what /pol/ was on halfchan.

Logan Ortiz
Logan Ortiz

You are a fash if you use the soy meme.
You're fash if you use memes that Nazis took credit for.
The butt hurt from Chapotard about their messiahs being called out is delicious. Ironic since calling out and mobbing is a favor past time of Chapo fans.

Austin Rodriguez
Austin Rodriguez

Everyone that makes fun of Chapo fans being effeminate limousine liberals is a fash.
Hahaha you seem pretty concerned about the very contentious provenance of the "soy boy" meme, but not the "Chapo" in "The Chapo Trap House".
Is it because you don't give a fuck about all the people a real fash killed like El Chapo Guzman, and only concerned about protecting your broke dick feelings?

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Dominic Morgan
Dominic Morgan

*Is it because you don't give a fuck about all the people a real fash like El Chapo Guzman killed,

Wyatt Hernandez
Wyatt Hernandez

This isn’t good if your trying to build a serious political movement and convert others to your side, oh wait, reddit doesn’t give two shits about that.

Blake Gray
Blake Gray

I honestly think Amber (maybe Matt) is the only one of them who really cares about real world organizing. They often admit how they're only paper members of the Democrat Cops of America and don't do much of any real political work. They mainly care about making an entertaining podcast. That's what they're good at and they should probably stick to doing that tbh.

Josiah Gutierrez
Josiah Gutierrez

You know what. I just listened to the new chapo podcast and for the "dirtbag left" there is some real ridiculous shit there.

1) Amber the gun grabber says that even if you are armed, you still couldn't be the military and cops because they have superior weaponary. This is the most retarded shit I have ever heard. Its some shit i used to spout back when i was a gun grabber and now i can see just how retarded it is. Pretty much every insurgency against an occupying force ever has been fought by an army which has worse technology and resources at its disposal. Popular revolutions make up for that in numbers. Particularly numbers of armed and willing people. Political power grows from the barrel of a gun.

2) they had a whole 5 minutes talking about skincare

3) Amber in particular annoys me. When she talks about UBI shes like "the economy would adjust to UBI" which it would, but as we have seen with benefits and minimum wages, there is a net gain for the working class regardless. For someone who then goes on in the same episode to espouse a bunch of reforms its ludicrous, austrian school tier shit "you can't give the proles stuff because muh inflation"

Andrew Parker
Andrew Parker

I-I-I-I-I don't really support the Democratic Cops of America, I was just pretending to be retarded.
cope.

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Robert Bell
Robert Bell

Who are you quoting? I don't know what you think I believe or what point you are trying to make.

Ryder Rogers
Ryder Rogers

The socdems in the US make Kautsky look like Bordiga. At least Kautsky was nominally a Marxist and supported having an independent class party.

Austin Bailey
Austin Bailey

the latest episode was great i thought. quite informative and interesting. if there was one critique of chapo to have it would be that they believe too much in electoralism's ability to affect change, rather, they don't believe in any other avenue for change very strongly. on monday's episode they came out for gun control if it would dearm the cops because the chapos do not believe a socialist revolution would succeed were the police state not dearmed- i think they use the example of helicopters with assault guns on the side. the notion is that the proletariat would be able to get guns in a post gun control world when they were necessary for the revolution whilst the cops wouldn't be able to get arms as easily thereby giving us an upper hand compared to assault helicopters.
these premises are ones im not 100% sure i agree with. but its this sort of mindset that causes people like amber to say "my goal in life is to see the establishment of a labor party in the US" rather than "my goal in life is to see capitalism abolished". there's this lack of belief amongst the chapo hosts.
also when matt said that his socialist state would be parliamentary i thought this was another example of not having faith in socialist ideas. cockshott has sort of proven the case for direct democracy and parliamentary politics have demonstrably negative consequences. we should at least give direct democracy an honest try before throwing it away. chapo should have cockshott on, he might change their perspectives.

Jaxon Reed
Jaxon Reed

they're pretty okay for being reformists, they can get a little libby with some of their takes (to be expected)

most of the hate comes from their popularity tbh

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Connor Jackson
Connor Jackson

I-it’s just a meme
It’s very real quackery promoted by right-wingers.

El Chapo was just a Mexican crime lord.

Dylan Brown
Dylan Brown

Mexican crime lord

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David Bennett
David Bennett

Oh and I remember when Chapo said the alt-right was anti-war, because they were against the Iraq War. Even though the Iraq War had been clearly a disaster to even laymen by 2016. And these same alt-right assholes were the ones that advocated for the fucking war to begin with

What? The American Alt-Righters who were even old enough to vote at the time were mostly Libertarians. There were some who were anti-war classical liberals and social democrats. But the number of Neocons in the Alt-Right who were old enough to vote back then is virtually nonexistent. You're more likely to find former ☭TANKIE☭ Alt-Righter like Eric Striker over a former Neocon Alt Righter.

Jason Ross
Jason Ross

Chapo is good as long as you aren't looking for hardcore ML content.
Felix is a beautiful boy we must cherish

Nicholas Perry
Nicholas Perry

i just watched his mma doc

never thought id catch feelings for bloodsportsball

Charles Diaz
Charles Diaz

souns like a bunch of liberalism
Feel free to start reading any time.

Carter Ross
Carter Ross

They are so much better than anything to come out of this place

Hudson Bennett
Hudson Bennett

normal people
those were plebians
not a big brain, but pretty sure mercantilism is an economic policy of feudalism and not an economic system or society organisation
these societies were heavily reliant on slave labor both for farming and feeding cities, and building public infrastructures

Aaron Myers
Aaron Myers

we guna fight the army with our guns!
fucking usual retarded take of the americunt gun fetishist, no revolution were fought using personal weapons, thats why one of the first order of business is getting guns for the people (and more importantly artillery, armor, air support, ammunition, communication) and training them.

as for ubi, its mostly a trap of liberals to gut the nanny state and fund shit jobs, transfering state wealth to capitalists using cheap workforce

Jayden Martinez
Jayden Martinez

That's not saying much though user, theyre still not great
Polite sage for Eceleb thread

Aiden Richardson
Aiden Richardson

Pretty funny guys, they give some very good insight into the decadent american culture. Plus, it's always refreshing to
1) hear americans talking about destroying the american government
2)just have the most vile roasting sessions on figures like Bill Mahner and Ben Shapiro.
3)hear american leftists that attack liberal desilusions like the poor working class trumpets.

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Jordan Walker
Jordan Walker

Here's what I actually see.

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Nathan Foster
Nathan Foster

Chapo is a group of annoying of radlibs who don’t care about irl politics.
hear american leftists that attack liberal desilusions like the poor working class trumpets.
That’s kinda true. A lot of factory workers in America voted Trump because they felt that he’d stop deindustralization.