Dismantling the system and starting over

Jace Lopez
Jace Lopez

Ever realize the amount of shit we have to do to dismantle the class system and capitalism? I know many people love revolution rather than reform, including myself, but where would that leave us?

Is Chinese equipment enough to support a broad leftist coalition against fascism? Let's say that, against all odds, you win the initial war against the current government, THEN you win again during the power struggle that follows the revolt. Congrats, now we get our communist nation. What would you do next?

China would support your country financially and you'd be in their sphere, of course… but many others would embargo you and sanction you for being an illegitimate state created by bloodshed, would they not?

I mean… why would the remaining neoliberal countries even consider your existence, let alone trade with you?

Even after winning against the government and the help they receive from their allies, and even after taking power from the other leftists, we'd still have to redo everything in society.

All brands and businesses would have to be dealt with and we'd have to streamline everything and create hundreds of government departments, and that's not even including organizing production and laws/law enforcement.

Where do we even fucking begin? Would you even recover from war? Even at that, many communists and leftists would disagree and the current government may be very unstable. At least fascists can agree in their hatred for ____ but I feel like leftists are so fractured into factions and are unwilling to team up even with the left-leaning liberals even if it means destroying capitalism and fascism. I can't help but to feel that the vast majority of people would not like to live under communism and would rather be dead (speaking as a burger).

Leave your thoughts. Be realistic. This is in relation to the international constitution thread, similar realistic concerns rather than just fantasizing that we shoot a bunch of people, burn some cops, and poof magic communism yay. I wanna hear what you want to do, and what you would do.

Attached: maidan01.jpg (199.36 KB, 1000x667)
Attached: zakaria-abdelkafi-may-day-paris-protest-crs-police-fire.jpg (382.43 KB, 3000x1967)

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

Nicholas Howard
Nicholas Howard

Lenin party no revolution is
-Dinner

Cooper Bell
Cooper Bell

radicals who refuse to work with moderates are hurting the leftist cause tbh

Anthony Cruz
Anthony Cruz

Dismantling the system and starting over
That's liberalism tho. Historical materialism states that if you dismantle something, you'll simply end up with something that used to exist on the previous step of progress.

Ever realize the amount of shit we have to do to dismantle the class system and capitalism?
Ancien Regimes fell to liberalism like a house of cards. Study history of Liberalism's ascent, it shows paths history might take now too.

Tyler Taylor
Tyler Taylor

What a nice LARP thread, you shitheads

Luis Gray
Luis Gray

Why would China support any socialist revolution? They don't support the NPA afaik, neither the russian communists in Ukraine, nor R ojava, nor even the most bastardized forms of socialist guerrillas possible, like Sendero Luminoso (which I believe is still acitve, in very small numbers obviously, correct me if I'm wrong).
I legit think it would be more likely to happen for another major/semi-major world power (or not even that tbh, just a very strong country economically wise) to have a revolution, become socialist, and then they'd support socialist movements worldwide. I know this will trigger all the dengoids here, idgaf. It's either this or many countries have revolutions within a short span of time and support each other against the capitalist superpowers.

Jonathan Lopez
Jonathan Lopez

Armed revolution in countries like France, Britain and America etc. in the current political climate is pure larp. That is not to say the working class and communists shouldn't be armed and ready to defend themselves from bourgeois counter-revolution, but there is zero chance of seizing state power through armed struggle.
Communists should run on a democratic platform.

Logan Barnes
Logan Barnes

The Chinese aren't communist anymore

Elijah Hall
Elijah Hall

The material conditions need to be right for the working class to dismantle capitalism.
Before that all revolutions will fail

Lucas Phillips
Lucas Phillips

neither the russian communists in Ukraine
Please don't tell me you are talking about thug-controlled USSR-LARPing territories under Russian protection.

Dylan Brooks
Dylan Brooks

Communists should run on a democratic platform.

Yes, and start reading Chilean history a lot instead of being USSR nerds.

Liam Morgan
Liam Morgan

Imagine thinking that a thread asking larpers what they'd do for REAL is larping itself

Jonathan Cruz
Jonathan Cruz

You are probably right, but moderates still suck ass

Isaiah Thomas
Isaiah Thomas

RTFM
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

Henry Cruz
Henry Cruz

How are we supposed to work with moderates exactly?

Gabriel Phillips
Gabriel Phillips

I live in brazil and i shiver at the ammount of people that would need to be relocated from favelas and shitty roadside towns in case of a revolution. It would be a hell of a project.

Jason Brooks
Jason Brooks

Armed revolution in countries like France, Britain and America etc. in the current political climate is pure larp.
Yellow Vests are proving you wrong
That’s the kind of thing where a more incremental approach is a good solution. Doing it instantaneously would be logistically impossible.

Daniel Roberts
Daniel Roberts

If you want a crisis of capitalism to kickstart a revolution in the capitalist West, ban immigration and wait 5-10 years.

Thomas Ramirez
Thomas Ramirez

There is no such thing as moderates

t. fishhook theory

Elijah Scott
Elijah Scott

Yellow Vests are proving you wrong
Protests=/=Armed revolution
And yellow vests is also not a communist movement.

Evan Reed
Evan Reed

The most important sector for our economy is agriculture. Also, the most exploitative relations happen on contryside, where slavery and vassalage still do exist.

Revolution in Brazil would begin with the peasantry.

VIVA A REVOLUÇÃO AGRÁRIA

Xavier Long
Xavier Long

That first pic is pretty bad ass. What protest is it from?

Attached: 1554019187323.jpg (31.39 KB, 531x328)

Lucas Price
Lucas Price

I forget where I found it from. Literally just looked for anarchy pics with fire and shit lmao. Looks like Ukrainian protests.

Liam White
Liam White

This. If a general leftist/center-left coalition doesn't help us, there will never be a chance for us to seize power in the aftermath… let alone win in the first place. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Cooper Ramirez
Cooper Ramirez

Theory is a better approach than opportunistic short-termism.

Jayden Bell
Jayden Bell

Considering the flag and the camera quality: gonna say Euromaidan.

Ryan Nelson
Ryan Nelson

No, I'm talking about some of the russian separatists and international volunteers fighting against ukrainian fascists in Donbass/Donetsk.

Kevin Myers
Kevin Myers

It's from the FASCIST uprising in Ukraine. That's right up an anarchist's alley.

Bentley James
Bentley James

Personally, I can't imagine a communist revolution being successful in America. I think the only option for the first world is pushing the overton window left.

Colton Watson
Colton Watson

nigger

Attached: 1554569148179.jpg (8.48 KB, 250x250)

Nolan Reyes
Nolan Reyes

Attached: 6vScT.jpg (137.41 KB, 717x880)

Connor Allen
Connor Allen

Excellent post, comrade!

Attached: stop-calling-me-a-homo.webm (3.43 MB, 640x400)

Landon Sanchez
Landon Sanchez

All of the Ifs in this need a solid why. The why's paint a pretty optimistic picture.

A mass movement that is able to tear down capitalism has essentially stormed all the trenches of the bourgeoisie. What you're talking about sounds more like a coup or a political revolution. Let's say for the sake of Argument it's a victorious revolutioin in the context of the global class war. I'm going to use my country of NZ as an example, because I've thought about it alot and also because as a developed island anglo nation of about 4 and a half million it's a diffcult and anomalous kind of revolution to have and the stakes are very high, because embargo and sanctions can send us back twenty years.

Yes, we can imagine that China would support the revolutionary regime. On what basis do we buiild a society based on need?

Some basic tenets of a transitional program would

- Nationalisation of Banks and assets to prevent capital flight
- The application of Labour accounting heading into the future a la Cokcshott, internationally such a system may be ratified across our trading partners only assuming that the Bank of China and other 'multilateral' financial institutions accepts this kind of evaluation as a tradeable currency form. For the purposes of foreign trade and foreign access, it's circulatable within this trading block, we now have a dual economy of credit that would primarily access what the labour amount our country is able to gain for itself via domestic production and the corresponding value of our exports in foreign currency to what we can import (we can't assume it's purchasing parity without doing some big boi calculations) but we could safely assume that being cut off from the US dollar means our arms are again very short and foreign currency may be favoured for foreign goods because of the parity disparity (this is a bad situation).

The saving grace of this is that the seizure of Assets and redistribution of wealth and incomes means that the average working person will still have access to far more value than we had before, life will improve.

- Green infrastructure projects, labour/emissions evaluated with organised scaled labour. Since 2014 our Construction sector has goten gud because on top of increasing practice standards/tools it's had to commit to big shitey housing projects and meagre transportation projects as our major centres have swelled. The seizure of supercranes etc. also means Green, clean and actually safe urban housing projects and decent planning With help and probably a Loan/collaboration with China we could look at high speed rail that would be relatively cheap considering our country spans barely 1.6 thousand K's.

- Free education, Free healthcare etc, our oharms are generic and mostly come from the Asia, pacific India, with some manufactured here.

The best point Marx made is that production is in a huge way, already socialised, but Capitalist relations will always place a limit on the extent to which it can be further socialised. We already have a base to build on, If you look at how Industry supply chains and contracting looks, you'll throw your head through the monitor at how easier/better it would be with organised labour/machine investment and the parasitic assortment of managers/head office bods (glorified finance/admin people essentially) and investors are thrown off. (1/1)

Attached: alunya.jpg (18.34 KB, 255x254)

Kevin Davis
Kevin Davis

(2/2)
The fun point here is the Geopolitics however so let's look at that. Going Back to this newly arrived society building communism we can assume basically a few things.

- Accross the ditch in OZ there is at least some element of a revived class struggle. One of the elements of class struggle is that there are pitched positions of the different social formations that take some sort of side in the class war. The lack of a consensus in a neoliberal society where classes are at war with itself will let capitalist logic follow through, unless there is a significant syncretic, crypto or fascist movement with the means to shutdown trade, no one's going to stop trading, because the loss of an entire market (particularly a major trading partner) will hurt profitability and further exacerbate the crisis that threatens at home in which case they have lost, it's either let the fascists in pivot to America/phillipines/japan or hope things settle down and trade resumes. Because The reds, the geese and the State has itself in check, it's generally the market that decides the level of isolation we would have.

I honestly think it would be pretty difficult in our circumstance to have the American empire try another unipolar sanction attack against us. The moderates are going to cry because we're white, we don't trade that much with them and they're really forcing a conflict of interest with people who don't want large scale confrontation or to be pushed around on their national interests.

In fact the financial reforms mentioned before may even put a Labour/union friendly government to ratify the new accounting methods in it's own financial apparatus and pivot towards china/the east, destroying the unipolar global consensus on some sort of deal that Australian assets/nationals are returned to It's parent banks and a new Asia Pacific economic strategy is ratified (or something like that. This kinda depends on South Africa and Britain, but a possible future could be a post-brexit social commonwealth forming.

Although I'll admit this is unlikely, it's still possible.

Annexing Territory in the class war, in a World where Imperialism is reaching it's limits and requires somewhere to offset excess capital (something we're famous for) exacerbates the crisis and forces the Imperialists to respond to the heightened contradictions that lost profitability creates and forces a decision on how to redivide their current market territory, it can lead to War, shifting alliances, austerity at home, and resurgent fascism to take the reigns and save capitalism from it's own logic through anti-capitalist capital accumulation. But the important part is that neoliberal nations in crisis find it increasingly harder to fight a global class war on it's own and every single trench taken digs their grave even further. The future that follows this kind of thing would be a weird, syncretic, pluralistic, molecular, deterritorialised fuck-mess.

I don't entirely disagree that you're going to see the fascistic-corporatist beast rip it's mask off and try to consolidate itself when the class movement looks like a real threat.

But Revolution is possible, plannable, necessary and winnable comrade.

Attached: alunya.jpg (18.34 KB, 255x254)

Grayson Thompson
Grayson Thompson

But there are significant communist elements in the GJ, the French Maoist Party, for example

Attached: IMG-20190217-155613.jpg (65.46 KB, 960x612)

Andrew Garcia
Andrew Garcia

Yes, we can imagine China would support the revolutionary regime.
You shouldn't, China is an active counterrevolutionary agent in both India and the Philippines, so there's no reason they'd support a communist New Zealand