Race realist leftism?

Jonathan Adams
Jonathan Adams

I don't think it's possible to convince that race (and sex) isn't extremely important. Every time a Marxist sends me something "disproving race" it ends up either being junk science by anthropologists or some claim that since it's impossible to define absolutely it's irrelevant (continuum fallacy.)

I have a lot of sympathy for the pro-worker rhetoric and class consciousness but it's egalitarianism makes me unable to call myself one. Am I just doomed to be a Asserist or Nazbol?

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Bentley Williams
Bentley Williams

at the current rate of post quality degradation this board will probably have fully converted to ethnonationalism within a couple months so just wait warmly until then I guess

Christian Wright
Christian Wright

I think it's just one or two autistic /pol/yps trying to shit the place up as much as they can though.
Nothing to worry about.

Owen Young
Owen Young

anthropology is junk science
<why don't you get all your history from movies like I do WE WUZ GLADIATORS AN SHIET NIGGA
Terminally retarded.
Back to /pol/index.html you go.

Adrian Mitchell
Adrian Mitchell

Even if race was provable and a useful concept what does it matter? We still all have to live together, there are still going to be dumb and smart people of every race, so why shouldn't we just treat people as their individual characteristics dictate?

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Julian Harris
Julian Harris

Tribalism, people have an ethnic and cultural background which they can all relate.
Part of the USSR's spirit was a huge amount of Russian nationalism.

Just because there are outliers doesn't mean the overwhelming majority won't drift towards one side or another. I notice a lot of cosmopolitan leftists take arbitrary arguments of why the minority doctors and lawyers who can afford to live in the nice areas of town are always such lovely people.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about necessarily having 100% homogeneous countries, but deciding that race literally doesn't matter.

Oliver Diaz
Oliver Diaz

Part of the USSR's spirit was a huge amount of Russian nationalism.
There were around a hundred different nationalities in the USSR. You think they were all "Russian nationalists"?
Seriously, just fucking lurk for a while, read up on some non-white communist movements like Burkina Faso. Your obsession with race is clearly tied to some sort of disgust for other races. Please stop shitting up the board.

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Nolan Cruz
Nolan Cruz

Part of the USSR's spirit was a huge amount of Russian nationalism.
This proves race somehow.

Lincoln Gomez
Lincoln Gomez

I don't think it's possible to convince that race (and sex) isn't extremely important.
In regards to economics and class? I really isn't.
Every time a Marxist sends me something "disproving race" it ends up either being junk science by anthropologists or some claim that since it's impossible to define absolutely it's irrelevant (continuum fallacy.)
Breaking up people into races doesn't work for a multitude of reasons that I laid out here in the discussion
or some claim that since it's impossible to define absolutely it's irrelevant (continuum fallacy.)
Genetic history is not irrelevant especially in a setting where, for example, you wish to know your risk to a certain condition or disease, or wish to know the break up of your Y-groupings. However "race" as its currently defined is irrelevant. Its almost entirely based on looks and phenotypes, and very much attempts to box in differing Y-haplogroupings which when analyzed closely seem nonsensical in their grouping/separation. In a laboratory setting, viewing you ancestry can be important. But when you're outside conversing you generally don't wear your genetic break-up on your sleeve, and attempting to break people up by their ancestry percents can only lead to the type of inner-group racial purity spiraling that you apparently loath. Its irrelevant because better methods exist, and those methods look at each individuals makeup (not as a group) clinically in order to tailor things like personalized medicine.
Tribalism, people have an ethnic and cultural background which they can all relate.
Part of the USSR's spirit was a huge amount of Russian nationalism.
Actually study the USSR before you state this.

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Jeremiah Watson
Jeremiah Watson

I don't think it's possible to convince ME that race (and sex) isn't extremely irrelevant. Every time a fascist sends me something "aproving race" it ends up either being junk science by anthropologists or some claim that since races are defined absolutely they are relevant (Is Ought problem.)

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Jace Evans
Jace Evans

Never forget.

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Cooper Baker
Cooper Baker

Lul the USSR was probably one of the most integrated countries in the world at least for its time. To this day I have Moldovan friends who have acquaintances and relatives all over the fucking USSR. What was important for the USSR was not "Russian nationalism" but the common Soviet identity which promoted civic spirit and self-determination without the cancerous rhetoric of ultranationalism.

Also, what the fuck does tribalism mean? I see this buzzword all the time used by polyps. People in tribes don't have absolute authority or ethnostate. If you're going to make an anprim argument, take it to its natural conclusion (abolishing the state and reverting to the state of nature).

Aaron Diaz
Aaron Diaz

you are just doomed to being a retard who's life is guided by libidinal reaction to phenotypes

Daniel Gutierrez
Daniel Gutierrez

Become a cultural realist.

It's like race realism, minus the ecological fallacies and coming across like a complete dingbat in public.

Jordan Phillips
Jordan Phillips

tribalism is just a more elgant word to say "people can only associate with people like themselves", with all the shortcomings of such vague definition

Kevin Martinez
Kevin Martinez

So the international working class is tribal?

Blake Torres
Blake Torres

You can see some arguing indirectly for this when they claim class is an identity.
Imo it's trap too many leftists fall for, reducing struggle against capitalism to the struggle of worker versus capitalist

Landon Jenkins
Landon Jenkins

I really don't think it's that important in terms of whether leftism is correct and good or not.
I'm not informed enough on the topic to know all the dirty details about it. On an individual level I treat people who are respectful with respect.

Benjamin Johnson
Benjamin Johnson

I agree with the post above me that the most you can really expect in this world on this question is a minimal standard of mutual respect. Like, I get it: I'm a white guy who grew up in a white bubble and now live in a city in the southern U.S. that has a large black population, and I don't really understand them or whatever, but I don't have any problems because I try to mind my own business and treat people with respect. It's not necessary for us to all to "love" each other in this hippie way.

I'm with Zizek here: youtube.com/watch?v=hg7qdowoemo

I haven't read much of this "race realism" stuff but a lot of it seems to be based on Autism Level which just seems like junk science to me which people can use to justify anything. Intelligence is overrated as a concept. First we have to start by defining it somehow, which I guess I'd define as the ability to solve problems and not fall into stupid schemes and traps. But you can see white people fall into stupid schemes all the time. If white people actually are more "intelligent" then I don't think it counts for very much if they were honest with themselves. Basically everyone can be tricked or manipulated by propaganda or advertising or scams and so on.
I was reading about the colonization of Texas and these observers would come through and notice the German settlers in the Hill County were industrious, built strong stone houses instead of log houses, baked wheat bread instead of cornbread and roasted their meet instead of frying it, and did their own work instead of relying on slave labor (not many of these early German settlers were socialists) and generally thought that if Texas was ever going to amount to anything it would be the Germans who did it and not the whites from the other Southern states who were moving in. Now this can get into some dodgy German chauvinism but there might be something to that, though it's probably worth noting these German settlers were also Unionists and the Confederates hated them something fierce.

Jordan Murphy
Jordan Murphy

Eh some edits. It's early. I meant to say many of the settlers were socialists that is. Karl Marx almost moved there and his brother-in-law moved to the German colonies in Texas. I think they got along better with the Comanches too who didn't to get backstabbed and betrayed all the time by the other whites. Anyways, in conclusion: there is a lot of humbug out there.

Brandon Martin
Brandon Martin

I honestly don't understand why people get so hung up on race/gender bullshit in this day and age. Even if it's real it's not really relevant in a society that will: a) soon be genetically engineering itself to the point where speciation occurs (any racial differences are gonna look quaint when this happens), and b) fully automate all production, subjecting the entire proletariat to abject poverty regardless of intelligence or temperament.

At this point in time "race realism" is basically a futile dick measuring contest.

Connor Reyes
Connor Reyes

Lets assume that race and sex mattered and that black people are dumb and women are weak.

Why would this matter?

Any form of segregation and discrimination is bad,if you don't agree with me I hope you die, because preventing someone from doing what they want to do in life is fucked up, no matter the reason.

Falling into race realism or sex discrimination is useless and diverts you from the true issue if you don't know read a book dummy Which is exactly what the pigs want! They would rather have you alienate your fellow proletariat rather than unit with them.

Lets look at the true differences between Autism Level, income, why is it when your families make more money your Autism Level and all around academics fair better than lower income people? Its because intelligence is learned, you fucking idiots your not born smart you learn to be it. And the rich have better schools, nutrients, and more resources to use towards learning.

Race realism is bourgeois bait, and the more we talk about it the more they win.

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Thomas Carter
Thomas Carter

reducing struggle against capitalism to the struggle of worker versus capitalist

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Ryan Carter
Ryan Carter

if you don't agree with me I hope you die, because preventing someone from doing what they want to do in life is fucked up, no matter the reason.
Not OP, but you might want to rephrase this. This can easily be misconstrued to justify a lot of things.

Ayden Ward
Ayden Ward

Lul the USSR was probably one of the most integrated countries in the world at least for its time.

Yes, but after its collapse, there were Russian-focused pogroms in the Central Asian countries and in Muslim regions in the southern Russia.

USSR was also notorious in restricting jews from STEM education, so it had disproportionate number of jewish musicians and artists.

t. USSR-born

Colton Perry
Colton Perry

I don't think it's possible to convince ME that race (and sex) isn't extremely irrelevant.

OMG. But intersectionality. You're such a class reductionist.

If you say race is irrelevant to, then that makes you a racist, and the only reason you can think that way is because of your "privilege." You see, oppressed people don’t have the privilege of not having to think about race because they’re constantly “impacted” by a culture of white supremacy, built upon systematic racism meant to oppress them. So if you’re not concerned with race, that means you aren’t one of the oppressed, you’re one of the oppressors. You're passively promoting and benefiting from the system of white supremacy, patriarchy, and institutional racism when you are not actively fighting against it, but you can't fight against it if you are one of the oppressors.

So what can you do? Keep your privilege in check, and you can do that by strategically failing and withdrawing to allow people without privilege to take your place. White people are the source of everyone else’s problems now, historically, and for as long as whiteness exists. Why is there not equality of outcome? White people and their racism. It’s the only acceptable answer unless you begin admitting things that are socially unacceptable.

Or you could recognize certain patterns and statistics exist, accept that inequalities will always exist, but still believe race and sex is irrelevant because an individual should be judged without regard to either.

Perhaps you'll grow out of this when you realize that you are now a minority on the left, and that your viewpoint is irreconcilable with any other leftist you will encounter in real life. Classical liberalism will be here for you when you are ready.

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Colton Hill
Colton Hill

Implying any of us believe in what you said
Implying we give a shit what other leftists who get their panties in the twist over "class reductionism" have to say
Implying we give a shit about identity politics or people who give a shit about identity politics in general
We're not here to compromise with liberals or anyone else.

Cooper Roberts
Cooper Roberts

Racism is sociopathic slave shit.

Jose Flores
Jose Flores

cool

Christian Watson
Christian Watson

A realistic model of race is a minimizing model of race. Piggy mints don’t shape reality.