hi Zig Forums first time that i post here.
i was always a leftie the only problem is that i changed views on what kind of socialism i thought was good for society, the first times i believed in marxism and the abolition of capitalism, than i changed my mind on thinking that it's better if those two things co exist on the famous scandinavian model, than i saw the venus project documentary where they think of aboliton of money, states, borders and max amount of automation to let people accomplish the real purposes of life, the venus project sounds really a utopian capitalism.
Btw recently i'm trying to get some infos on existing places where socialist principles are applied, thanks to you guys i found out of one big US military base in Syria, i discovered myself the intentional communities, the situation of Marinaleda in Spain, eco villages, and workers cooperatives, little places.
Is there something i am missing?
A P P L I E D S O C I A L I S M
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The Soviet Union, Mao's China, Cuba, etc.
This is either bait or you're retarded. There isn't multiple kinds of socialism scandinavia is capitalist.
those were just hipsters from 10 years ago. irrelevant to today.
read the sticky.
yeah you're missing an understanding of Marxism.
i'm a newbie, i just want to learn more, i have confused ideas
read the sticky and the reading list stop posting
I assume you mean utopian socialism, because that's the best way to describe it. I got into communism because of TVP and TZM, but those projects lack a theory of class struggle.
well TVP says that humans should be free from shitty manual labor, and let the robots do the thing
this would have to be possible first
also people who don't work tend to be shit humans i.e. lumpen and NEETs
Right, but that's what I mean by utopian, they have no idea how to get to a communist society because they don't have a theory of class struggle.
They ignore the stranglehold capitalists have on our society, they ignore the need for a dictatorship of the proletariat to advance society out of capitalism.
btw i wanted only to know what kind of places in the world today are using socialism and they are succeeding
Good gatekeeping, retard.
its not gate keeping the sticky is there to prevent retarded posts like this
North Korea, Cuba.
north korean people are starving
source?
keep lurking for awhile
Jesus christ, are you trolling or do you truely have no idea what capitalism is?
Lurk the forum called /marx/ - they talk about historcal socialism a lot. USSR, China, Yugoslavia and so on.
Read Ernest Mandel's "An introduction To Marxian Economics" (40 pages, available online)
Read The Communist Manifesto (5 pages).
Then you are good to go.
You NEED theory to be a leftist. You've been brainwashed your entire life. See these books as a detox. And lurk more. You will appreciate the people bothering you to read once you understand Marx. You will look at the world differently, I promise you.
This is good stuff to be interested in, but we really gotta have a way to translate it into structural change. Marxism helps with that.
Fuck off with this attitude you dumb fuck. We are here to welcome people not be a stuck up cunt. Seriously in any real life org if you pulled that shit to a newb you’d get kicked out.
Scandinavia is not socialist I stand by my point
Congratulations, you understand an extremely basic point. You should not STFU because you're wrong, you should STFU because you're obnoxious.
why so butthurt
As I just said, because you're obnoxious.
It's not the 90s anymore.
cfr.org
yo feminism is bullshit tho
>Yugoslavia
My parents grow up in Yugoslavia, that was just a failed state that made everything w debt, it was not socialism, it was just bullshit, they told me that everybody stole there because corruption was imbedded in the system, i mean people that had a shop or a little business, everybody lied on financial reports, profit and loss report, they paid bribes to the taxman and the list goes on and on.
DOn't talk bullshit, please
just because china is helping to feed them,
youtube.com
concentration camps in north korea, what do you think of these modern day gulags?
Amnesty international and Human rights watch said that the level of human rights in North Korea are some of the lowest in the world, you guys should stop defending socialist countries and sometimes accept the truth, there is no freedom of speech in North Korea, there is no freedom in general
youtube.com
every media says catastrophic things about North Korea, and there are people saying that it's going fine, if North Korea is so cool, why all the left wing people don't move there??
pic related is you eating imperialist propaganda
wait I thought they were starving, now you're saying China is feeding them? which one is it?
prisons have existed for thousands of years almost as long has human have committed trespasses against one another this is no different from any other prison except here their labor is used to benefit society as a whole. It is better to work off your debt to society you made by the crime you committed through labor that benefits society as a whole rather than sit in a cell.
Freedom is subjective. If the North Koreans do not have freedom of speech then they have to freedom to live in a society free of reaction.
In the US we have freedom of speech but then as a result are forced to live in the hot bed of reaction
ok this is clearly bait at his move
Hey my man I used to be just like you, eating up Yankee propaganda about the good I'm DPRK, but then I read the massive ongoing thread we have dedicated to debunking such things. Skim this shit for like an hour a day and I guarantee it will change your life
8ch.net
the open secret is that to some leftists, critical support becomes uncritical support
inb4 banned for imperialism
North Korea isn't the best example of succesful socialism, and it's true that defending it at every turn is pretty shit praxis and optics. We should rather point to other examples, or just make it clear that like capitalist regimes, socialist regimes vary in performance and quality, and that socialism is more of a process towards a better future rather than a magic fix into utopia).
That said, North Korea being shitty is no excuse for the U.S. to perform imperialistic brinkmanship with both NK and China in the entire East Asia region. Tbh, the sooner the burgers realize that their position in East Asia can't last forever, the better for everyone.
(I'm not that guy I'm the one defending North Korea btw)
I'd say defending anything at every turn is bad not just the DPRK.
True, it's just that North Korea along with Cambodia is oftern displayed as the posterchildren of the 'leftism gone wrong'-narrative. Seems smarter to just shift the narrative over to the success stories such as the USSR, a rule that's actually missed today by a substantial amount of the population (and which you can easily favourably compare to the chaos following it's dissolution and today's corrupt mob-rule in much of the former SSRs)
Pic related was posted on leftypol a while ago
the left should focus on the success of this failed regimes and use their successes and failure as building blocks for future Communist movements
Amnesty International has no credibility whatsoever, they have been exposed repeatedly for example in the all Syrian charade. They are liars that serve western imperialism.
I agree
But do you have sources on that so I could save for future debates?
I don't have anything prepared right now, but have this link: timhayward.wordpress.com
What they import from China is a tiny fraction compared to what they produce on their own. They could produce a lot more if it weren't for the sanctions on oil and fuel, which China votes in favor of.
They have prisons like every other country but these aren't Nazi death camps. The only "proof" they give us are satellite photos of rectangular buildings which could be anything, and testimonies of celebrity defectors who are literally paid to lie. The narrative regarding these supposed camps is also highly contradictory. For example one source may say that there is a three generation punishment where people are born in the camps, while the other source claims that all pregnant prisoners and their children are killed.
And there are in fact DPRK defectors who want to go back and actually defend the DPRK after having lived in the ROK, yet they are almost never reported on and some are even thrown into prison by ROK authorities.
youtube.com
Here's some more, related to Syria and Lybia.
youtu.be
aranews.net
Socialists love swallowing big, thick cylindrical objects.
You guys are the ones who can't stop talking about them though, literally every time there is any talk of big black dicks here it's from a Zig Forumsack
nice, thanks