Breadpill me on venezuela. All pictures below are unrelated leftist pictures

No, I have always used the definition of socialism taken from the dictionary. The only definition that really matters, on the contrary I always find something totally different with every commie with which I have spoken.

I would bet all that I can choose 100 commies at random and none would be totally in agreement with the definition of the others. That is why "socialism / communism has never been implemented" nor will it ever be implemented.

Also before you bring up Cubans leaving Cuba or something of the sorts:

"The truth is that the average Cuban lives very well these days by Third World standards. He appears much happier than his counterparts living under regimes that the U.S. supports or imposed. He endorses his government's foreign and domestic policies much more enthusiastically than his counter-parts endorse the policies of their governments.

[. . . .]

Considering that throughout the Third World there are endless millions of people who at least think they would like to emigrate to the land of two-car families with a Sony in every bedroom, and that the U.S. now faces big immigration problems from the so-called 'free' nations of the Caribbean basin, the number of people wanting to leave Cuba today is not extraordinary. If you were to open a port in El Salvador and provide boats and U.S. visas, you would see a yacht race at least the equal of any flotilla that ever left a Cuban port."

(Kwitny, Jonathan. Endless Enemies: The Making of an Unfriendly World. New York: Congdon & Weed. 1984. p. 239, 253.)

It depends, there's a rift between marxist-leninists and anarchists, the former wishes the state to make the means of production of public use, the latter wants something akin to self-management.

revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/website/venezuela-in-crisis-defending-the-bolivarian-revolution

check otu this podcast

Also, the number of Haitians and Dominicans attempting to float out of their island exceeds the number of Cubans who do so.

Now that's what I call a cherry picking.
Go to a shopping center in the upper area of the capital, where the largest food reserves arrive and have the least amount of electric and water rationing, unlike the rest of the state where we last at least 8 to 12 hours without electricity and water daily.

And it's even funny, if you notice the shopping center is desolate, only the wealthy are there. Dozens of stores are closed in broad daylight.
Oh, by the way, $1 equals half the monthly minimum wage. Much more than the girl who served her chocolates wins a week.

But of course, since those people there eat, it means that everyone eats in the country.

And ignore the hundreds of videos of people eating from garbage, documented rampant malnutrition, and the millions of people coming out every day from Venezuela who hate socialism to the core. Those do not matter because they endanger leftist ideology.

BIG RED COCK

You say there are also happy people in Cuba? wow Cubans who have lived most of their lives or all their lives under a dictatorial regime that injects propaganda daily and do not know anything better like that regime? I wonder why, it should not be brainwashing, stockholm syndrome or anything like that.

Because of course it must be great when you have to risk your life to go out on a raft to the sea for days without guarantee of survival, just to tell others how great you live in Cuba.

youve been under a supposed dictatorial regime, injected daily with propaganda since you were six, and you seem to know better. weird

Did I say that everyone in Cuba was like that? And you just ignored the people escaping cuba on raft, no?

I never said that we had a dictatorship exactly like Cuba's.
Venezuela does not compare itself in terms of the closing of the borders and all the possible tortures and violations of human rights that are freely done in Cuba and that will never be known.

Yes, those carefully selected videos of people eating garbage. You know that there are people in every surrounding country who are eating garbage every day, right?
See

Almost nobody is coming from Cuba on a raft anymore, because a large majority of those who left Cuba initially were large landholders (people who had other people work it for them), capitalists who had their businesses taken, and people who were loyal to the previous government. I'm not seeing any large scale immigration from Cuba recently, are you?

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Can you show me the supposed food that person carries in the bag, please? Sometimes I take the trash in bags to the dumpster, but if it's in a bag it has to be food, right?

You have other hundreds of videos, and if you do not like those, there are also documented sources of malnutrition and millions of testimonials.

Thank you for showing that there are people escaping from Venezuela, even the military risks it. They stand under a difficult situation and is nothing easy to solve for a president without legislative powers? Yes.
I do not know why you bring that in anyway, again you try to divert the facts by showing an isolated situation, what happens with pic related?

Wow incredible, the dictatorial country is not letting out more Cubans in raft, therefore no Cuban has intentions to leave, of course. I guess they did not tighten the security so as not to let the Cubans escape even more or something like that. The country that murders and slaves its citizens? Nah, that does not happen, they want to live there and that's why they stay even more.

And of course, everyone who escapes is the owner of slaves or some kind of villain, although there is no proof of it, say that like is true.

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Why are Cuban life expectancies on par with Americans if they're all starving slaves on a prison island?

By the way, soda containers are used to transport water from faraway places and it is something common here. Most of the houses do not get water supply now.

Fun fact:

Despite the fact that almost all the companies disappeared, the coca cola still brings products, even more strange is that they use plastic, something that is no longer produced in the country.
And since 2016 the sodas do not use sugar for lack of material, they are sold as "without calories" and have a flavor to remedy ..

Why would they want to leave anymore than any other country in the region? Their healthcare is excellent if you look at the wealth they have. I'm pretty sure you also can leave Cuba legally although it takes long. It isn't North Korea (which itself is frequently lied about in western media) when it comes to political life.
After the revolution where the pictures of people escaping on drafts are from? Certainly.

Well that is a tremendous lie.

youtube.com/watch?v=QDcbNLcywMw
youtube.com/watch?v=syoQ5PK7pDU

But I do not doubt that the dictatorial government that does not let the people escape shows a different reality.
It reminds me so much of that bad movie with seth rogen The Interview.

This argument is silly. Those are some Cubans who live in some poor area where while life expectancy is probably lower than the country's, is still better than what they had before the revolution. If you are so worried about poor Cubans go after US which sanctions them and Venezuela. The healthcare there is praised by WHO.

The stats don't lie

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Did you know that here are hundreds of Cubans who came to Venezuela to "work" as doctors for an agreement called Misión Barrio Adentro in 2006? Hundreds of them escaped from Venezuela years ago, and the few I have personally met have never spoken positively to me about Cuba.

I also had a Cuban colleague in the university, he was the son of a pilot and he managed to obtain Venezuelan nationality, I never spoke much with him, but he always told us that Cuba was much worse than Venezuela, he emigrated from here years ago.

Of course because the government of Cuba is so transparent and everything that leaves that island is so easy to verify. Again, just like that movie the interview.

lol

hehe funny movie is like real life!

I have no clue about the agreement. I don't expect them to talk positively seeing they are payed worse than in other countries for reasons like the job of a doctor not being artificially scarce and Cuba being poor. But if you have problems because of the second reason go after US sanctions, not socialism.

Venezuela was a better place to live than Cuba. But it isn't because of socialism.

That healthcare must be really good to relegate food, freedom, comforts and hundreds of basic human rights, but hey, healthcare!

By the way, the country's decline began in 2008 with product shortages, power outages and rampant inflation and worsened sharply in 2011. Sanctions on my country began in 2017 and went only to government officials who had drug businesses and other crimes, no to the economy of venezuela.
You always blame the sanctions that began recently on the problems of 11 years ago.

I just found it funny that some fiction was so attached to reality, it's a very bad movie indeed.
I don't know why I mentioned it tho.

Which decline? Both Cuba life expectancy and gdp is rising. If anything the problems in Cuba started because of disintengration of USSR which was it's biggest trade partner and then the 2008 crisis. The true violation of human rights is not being able to afford healthcare, not being unable to criticize the government, which is a thing you can do in Cuba.

I don't exactly know when sanctions on your country started but they have been confirmed by UN for hurting mostly the poor, there was a coup attempt on Chavez in 2002 by people who had connection to Bush and most of your media is owned by the rich. If we go by Venezuela statics under Chavez life for the majority of people improved in many ways.

A decline with product shortages, power outages and rampant inflation.

wow, looking for something positive in that hell that shouldn't be in the first place, yes maybe they have a better life expectancy than a few years ago, or they're more likely showing to the world false data that can't be properly verified.

Cuba has never had freedom of expression under this dictatorship, you can't criticize the government openly.

The most recent sanctions against Venezuela are against government companies that are used to launder drug money internationally, and yes, it hurts us because it's money that doesn't enter the country, but I don't see how it should be defended.

The attempted coup d'état was a retaliation to his 1992 attempted coup d'état, I don't doubt that it was financed by someone just like his, where hundreds of people died.
If it makes you feel any better, the gringos haven't put their hands in Venezuela for decades, the Russians and the Chinese took their place very well.

And no, most of the media are controlled by the government, and the few others are censored or self-censored.

Oh yes, he spent the money on unsustainable and populist aid and then we ran out of money, very classic of socialism, in fact.

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Come on bro, that's as real as what's written on a bathroom wall. Telesur is openly financed by the Venezuelan government, full of false news.

I don't see why I should continue talking to you if you think Cuba is literally the hell. There are millions of people around the world who would consider Cuba heaven. It pretty much means you are well off or the reality doesn't align with your worldview so you try to fight it in any way possible. The data is supported both by UN and WHO.
Wait, you really think the US is the good guy who wants peace and freedom for Venezuela? You also think that's the only sanctions you got?
He was elected president and had the support of majority. It was an US coup on a country which didn't act in it's interests which isn't that uncommon.
Maybe now, but few years ago this didn't hold true.
This pretty much shows you know nothing about the socialist economies if you think they financed aid out of thin air.

How the fuck is Venezuela socialist again? It's literally just a mixed economy

It's semi socialist. It has price controls, socialist party in power and a welfare program.

I call venezuela a "nightmare hell", so for me, hell is a little better.
And yes there are other countries that are a worse hell than Cuba, I do not doubt it, there is no reason to praise Cuba for that.

But on the contrary what it shows is how little you know about Cuba and how you praise it without having an objective vision or statements outside the left-wing media that you surely always read, while I have lived next to people who came out of there.

Did I say that? Simply argue that the US is not interfering in this way in my country, I am very aware of the sanctions we receive, none of them so far is intended to affect the population, each and every one is well justified. You can show me one that is not.

It was not a coup d'état of the USA, they were conspirators with decades of attempted coups d'état, just like the military who carried out the 1992 coup.

Few years? Try much more, Chavez illegally stole television and expropriated media since 2007, as the TV station "RCTV" and hundreds of radio stations.

Well, I know exactly what always happens. I also know the theory but I am more interested in the result that is always obtained.

There is no reason to praising Cuba for rising living standards of people. Big brain opinion.
I've yet to see western media speak positively of any socialist country. My family is from poland and comparing the things I hear about in the media and my family's experience of living under socialism and the statistics I concluded that western media isn't a thing one should trust. I have no reason to believe what they say about Cuba, I rather trust what the UN and WHO say than what the capitalist media says.
Literally the UN concluded that US interference in Venezuela is against the many international laws.
Yeah, if you believe that USSR fell because of welfare programs it means you didn't actually study it's history.

Sozis LARPing as something more. Even Denmark is more socialist than them.

hm, unbiased and objective coverage to be sure

Nandos lol.

and people blame communist countries like the dprk and communist albania for being isolationist and focusing on self sufficiency.
Venezuela is not even socialist, more than 80% of the work force is privately owned. they are called socialist because their goal is socialism main difference is that they want to achieve it by reforms and slow change instead of a revolution and radical action.

foxnews.com/world/what-socialism-private-sector-still-dominates-venezuelan-economy-despite-chavez-crusade

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Jesus unironic hispachan kulaks posting in this thread. Kill yourselves.

That man could open his and crack open the sprite, and you'd still be incredulous.

youtube.com/watch?v=mbXqGiNlWWw

Read
mediatheoryjournal.org/alan-macleod-manufacturing-consent-in-venezuela-and-colombia/

Watch
youtu.be/ii5MlQgGXyk

Are there better sources for this? You have to be literally retarded to think foxnews is a reliable source.

Where do you get that kind of bullshit? Let me guess from a 2010 publication, isn't that right? Well, I'll tell you, in the last 19 years, private enterprise has been gradually expropriated, to the point that technically they do not exist.

Source:
- elestimulo.com/elinteres/gobierno-toma-control-con-el-65-de-las-importaciones-del-pais/
- ciea.org.ve/el-gobierno-llevo-al-colapso-a-mas-de-1-000-empresas-expropiadas-en-12-anos/
- el-nacional.com/noticias/economia/gobierno-expropio-mas-millones-hectareas-estan-improductivas_231096

And in any case no merchant can be charged more than 30% of any product, SO THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE MARKET IN VENEZUELA.
Source: bbc.com/mundo/noticias/2014/01/140124_venezuela_economia_ley_precios_justos_dp
And the government has absolute power over the banks and expropriated the main ones years ago.

There, expropriation of most of the productive sector and distribution in all its areas and imposition of anti-free market law. "The state controls the means of production" by definition:
- merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
It is a socialist country.

I would give more sources but the national news pages are censored in the country and it is difficult to find the links.

—

Alas, I saw the source in that bad meme, it's the same outdated news from more than 9 years ago, but the funniest thing is that conveniently you all avoid reading the last sentence of that news:

"A PLAN PREPARED IN 2007 BY THE GOVERNMENT PROJECTED THAT SUCH "SOCIAL ECONOMY" BUSINESSES AND PUBLIC SECTOR WOULD TOGETHER BECOME LARGER THAN THE PRIVATE SECTOR BY 2013".

In fact this just reaffirms what I say and is a source that YOU are giving, so you must take it as real.

...

this, literally fucking brainwashed

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How is Venezuela even Socialist?

Government intervention in the economy such as price controls, that's as far as any claim of Venezuela being socialist goes-

eh, intervention in the economy isn't necessarily socialism.
But to help you out, I think they did re-nationalize the oil industry.

Also, there is this.

venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11034

That link is not working for me, its being blocked for some reason

It took my browser a while to open it for me but it did.

archive.is/KYHc4
Does this one work?

Can I get a source on some of those stats for when I re-post that and someone inevitably asks for them?

Yeah that ones better

youtube.com/watch?v=XaQ7SdSa9Fg&list=PLqtiZC-4QZC23Sf9fkpNOpVpospwVhgwc&index=6

Thats not how it works; if your opinion is shared by only %1 of the population or isn't supported by the data its not really relevant.

I made a thread about Venezuelan history

If the state controlled the means of production suppliers wouldn't be able to keep critical goods offshore. Private owners wouldn't be able to hoard and stockpile goods. Private businesses wouldn't exist. Private property would not be alongside public housing.

Furthermore government expropriation of private land is completely within the bounds of capitalism and happens all the time in countries like the US, where families in Texas are having their land taken to build the border wall right now and families were thrown out of their houses last winter in the Dakotas to build a pipeline.

This isn't "doing a socialism", its class struggle under capitalism, and your just freaking out because you thought eminent domain only worked for the rich.

The amount of people who vote for it is minuscule though.

How would capitalism give food to people in the forest who have no money?

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...

nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-sends-2-nuclear-capable-bombers-venezuela-n946246

youtube.com/watch?v=gxuRGKwY61g
youtube.com/watch?v=06_zauVKKGQ

christian conservative news network actually getting it right ??

what a timeline

Maduro is proof that social democracy doesn't work and that you need a dictatorship achieve socialism.
Exhibit A: you, because under a dictatorship you would have been deservedly killed for being a counterrevolutionary and then we wouldn't have to read your retarded posts.

Whereas the stats from the USA are simply objective truth right? It's not like they are in a hegemonic position which would make it MUCH easier for them to manipulate information and get away with it than for weaker countries or anything.

Interesting to see the children of the Venezuelan petit-bourgeoisie pop up on the internet and actively defend the counterrevolution

Tankpill: social democracy sucks dick

Fucking hell first time I have laughed out loud scrolling this board.
Fucking based.

Price caps under capitalism, outside of extremely specific circumstances, always ends in disaster, because capitalists are free to fuck everything up forever.

There wasn’t enough voluntary compliance to make the system work. The black market is sometimes necessary and sometimes disastrous. The perniciousness of Earth is that it can be both at once. That happened. Venezuela messed with its system of prices while working really hard to increase the resource access of the poor. This lead to the infamous socialist phenomenon of misery sharing. There was a bridge period where it was getting worse to be anyone, but inequality was still low. Eventually it was a bridge to nowhere.

Economies require people to work assiduously for small amounts of money in the faith that small amounts add up to large amounts. Venezuela was a place where small amounts of money went obsolete. The most profitable things to do in Venezuela were to corrupt the government from above or exploit the government from below. Eventually the center couldn’t hold. To make a country work people must be better than they need to be. They must forego some profits and seek others. There are righteous and unrighteous avenues of prosperity. Too many people in Venezuela pursued unrighteous prosperity.

If I were Venezuela’s leader I would rub my face with onion juices and other irritants, and I would weep for my country. I would do this to reduce the likelihood of assassination, but also in utter true shame and sincerity; only God can know the second motive still exists when the first motive operates, but still they can coexist. I would weep openly and in private. I would weep in churches and apologize for blasphemies; I would weep before my enemies. For to be the leader of a country in hyperinflation is an utterly wretched thing.

I would wear burlap, and not very much of it. I would curse any true and certain malefactor, but say nothing of any uncertain foe. I would curse the people for what they did and didn’t do, but still my ears would be open, and still I would curse myself as well. I would tell my advisors to cast themselves into the mud, for even the mud is more worthy.

I am by no means certain my approach would be useful for anything under sun or moon. Yet no one person is the answer to the woes of a country, and if all share in sorrows then perhaps all *share* in sorrows, and people may tolerate reforms intolerable in the certain knowledge that every power domestic is grieving for the nation.

People say in most domains of life that such theatrics are unwarranted. What is unwarranted when an entire nation is suffering? With every scrap of theater I could summon, I would pray for the harvest, and beg people seek despite all hardship to live peaceably and well. I would ask people to put aside all hard feelings, suspend all rivalries, discard all violences.

For what power can mend a nation that has not the heart to be mended? A hardened heart invites catastrophe in dark hours. The people must open themselves to a brighter future or it shall not arise.

And in my wrecked rough clothing with my red eyes and stricken face, the people would know that if anyone prospered on their suffering, certainly I did not. For to be leader of a country in hyperinflation is a wretched, wretched thing.

orinocotribune.com/impact-of-the-economic-war-against-the-people-of-venezuela

15yultimo.com/2018/12/04/hiperinflacion-enigmas-teoricos-y-politicos/

15yultimo.com/2018/06/04/recordatorio/

15yultimo.com/2018/09/03/salario-precio-y-ganancia/

sounds a lot like deliberate sabotage by a small number of foreign based actors

If the problem is foreign actors, that’s dumb for the foreign actors. The prosperity of all people is linked to the prosperity of all people. Those who seek to dominate others are always eventually slaves, while those who seek the prosperity of all draw the world towards greater heights.

...

Gotta love how it’s the broken hypercompliant one who magically knows which posts belong to one person. No IDs in this forum, and yet… I admit though, I’d been considering posting just what you did, linking my three posts together. But you did!

And what does that mean that you did it and not I? You lovely inarticulate stranger… We’re not supposed to care. We’re supposed to be obedient husks like the everwarriors too broken to live in peace!

Go join the other people who hate life in sliding right. The prosperity of all people is objectively linked to the prosperity of all people - even broken sociopathic slaves haunted by their beige chimpanzee gonads will be happier when there’s a cure for their kind. CRISPR might do it.

That's the most fluff i've seen on a single post.

there can be bad feels>reels in multiple posts at the same time without being the same poster

Doing this is why Venezuela is a shithole, you retard. The economy suffers from extreme Dutch disease because it depends almost exclusively on the country's oil reserves instead of diversifying, which led to a near-total reliance on imported goods. As a result, it was very easy for foreign capitalists to fuck with them (>>2874653), and as soon as the value of their oil took a dive, they were supremely fucked.
At no point was the mode of production actually changed, at most there were a few half-hearted gestures.
Capitalism doesn't give a shit about your virtues. I don't mean that as a value judgment, I mean that is literally not how capitalism works. People ignoring morals for the sake of profit is necessary for a capitalist economy to thrive.

all you need to know about Venezuela is that America wants to overthrow Maduro

And all other sources are financed by capitalist like Caracol and RCN, in Colombia, or CNN and Fox news, in the US, the latter even more so because of zeasy manipulation by the CIA and DOD

You know, it’s funny. You fucks never claim that BBC, NPR or “Radio Free Wherever” are fake News for being tied to the American and British governments.

As for the SSNP. the idea of SSNP is to unite what was the land of Assyria into one nation and one people.

i can go deeper.

t. /sg/ pro

So Fascists then?

im not really so sure about the definition to be put in there. as the idea of it also includes all people from all religious background and ethnicity from natural Syria to work together as one.

as my land in syria contains many ethnic and diverse people the term fascists would not be compatible. or maybe it does?

To be truthful this idea is wild and such to unite people who from city to city and from town to town has conflict with each other since time it will be unwise to do that. Like im from Aleppo and the people in there have a secret deep hatred from the people of Damascus but they let not slip out and stay good at the best. the same goes for Damascus people toward Aleppo

Verga, ¿aquí fue donde se metió Yohan?

Easily the best banned post I ever read.

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Why do so many people here obsess over e-celebs?

...

What did he mean by this?

Psst. Fascism isn't strictly ethnic or religious. Although in the case of middle east, it would still be progress, as the countries are fake, and they are still stuck in the city-state stage, not nation-states.