Planned agronomy

Meat eaters have to meal prep too, though? You can't just squeeze raw ground beef into your mouth.

I can recommend this book: akpress.org/makingakillingebook.html
a leftist critique of animal agriculture and human-animal relations using marxian, anarchist and social ecological theory.

It's not complex at all. Just keep in mind certain foods that have certain nutrients and you'll be fine – you should be doing that anyway even if you discount veganism for whatever reason. Meat alone, unlike vegan food alone, will lead to sickness just like in the Inuits.

woops, weren't mean to quote anybody

You can though.

Note im not recommending it but you don't have to research random vegetables to make sure you're not going to cripple yourself.

Also vegans tend to be malnourished

Meat based is not meat alone

I'm vegan.

Do you actually think it's easier to engineer people to stop eating meat than to try to present alternatives? What you propose is so far out from the current political climate and can't be implemented in the next 150 years.

Yea, those ticks might also become mutated and people are going to notice and freak out. Better to spread awareness and develop better food.

Dude please eat your vegetables.

Meat eaters tent to be obese.

The only problem is cultural. Technologically the problem is solved. The lone star tick can already do this, there are people out there RIGHT NOW who are allergic to meat because of its bite. It's a fairly simple mechanism that we already understand, but if replicating the allergic response is too hard we could literally just breed ticks and put them on people.

See>>2863348

Why are you lumping the general population in?
Why are they obese?
People get obese because of an excess amount of calories consumed.
Meat has very little calories compared to breads and sugar(which are vegan btw)

But yet meat based diet people are not obese

If you're not eating meat alone, you're meal planning.

That's not what meal prepping is

Removing carbs is good. We need high fat food. But meat is itself largely excessive. It can be easily swapped for eggs, chickpeas, lentils, beans etc.

Why are you considering a majority meat diet "excess" but a majority plant diet not excess?
Also eggs are not vegan

Then you're under the impression that vegans put way more effort into their meals than they actually do.

Because it takes more resources to grow a calorie of beef than a calorie of eggs or beans.

Because it takes an absurd amount of freshwater, energy, land to create 1 kg of beef.
Meat should unironically be reserved for pregnant women. We do not need to produce 90% of the meat we farm.
It's called normal diet you idiot.

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It's unsustainable you idiot.

God that looks delicious.

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The pic on the right is lebanese food, I highly recommend it. Incredibly tasty.

They don't which is why so many are malnourished

So?
We don't have a lack of food in the first world

I hope a mod gets you out of this thread so we can actually discuss like adults.

Maybe in undeveloped countries but most developed nations do it fine

No its called modern consumer culture diet

...

You are the type of person I was talking about here

Either he's shitposting, either he's an idiot who can barely grasp what he's even talking about. He's not going to contribute anything to the thread beyond

Also opinions have no place when we actually have quantified and scientific data. It feels like arguing with some 55 years old senile boomer on facebook. I don't care about an opinion so blatantly poorly informed.

Ok and?

Is there anything incorrect three though?

Outside of masai/inuit tribes, every fucking single society has relied massively on plant-based food. Meat has only been affordable for mass consumption for ordinary people for barely 50 years.
Everything he says is so completely misinformed I can tell the guy is clueless in biology, nutrition and history at the same time.

You can't force me to care about people not doing their research.

Until the agricultural revolution everyone's diet was meat based.

You posting about veganism goes against this though

Also
Blatantly wrong. Ofc you will find that one case of neglectful parents not asking a doctor or even doing basic research and killing their baby by only feeding it soy or some dumb shit but it's just fucking stupid.

Going back six thousand years in history because everything else is inconvenient for your narrative, nice.

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So we are all going to fucking die because of climate change you retard piece of shit.
And if you think I will let you kill me so you can eat meat, you'll be sorely disappointed.

This is thr case time after time

Yes and? Humans didn't evolve to eat only plants sorry bud

Climate change dont real if it hurts my feelings and sensible stomach :🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

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Lol ok al gore
Do you have ANY evidence saying that we won't die by only eating plants?

I'm OP and I've been defending reducing the amount of cattle being raised drastically. I'm not even a vegan you waste of biomass. I don't believe in individual moral posturing, structural/political change needs to happen, it's not about convincing individuals to stop buying meat. I think you're an idiot and should read a book.

What are yuh butthurt about exactly?
I'm arguing against veganism as a shitty diet
Now how meat is produced is a different topic entirely and can be equally unhealthy
However factory fsrms producing bad meat does not equate to meat is bad

...

What's up wit hur cancerous weh of taiping?xDDDDDDD

Sl for ghe third time now

Meat based is not meat only

Although I agree with you, bringing up the evolution argument for either side is stupid. Humans are cognizant enough about diets to choose whatever they want to eat regardless of evolutionary history. We also still tend to have large incisors, which are remnants of primate evolution selecting for combat and dominance but we don't ALWAYS flash our teeth and fight for clan dominance like chimps do. That being said, vegans are aggressive assholes, and meat eaters are stingy pricks.

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I very clearly don't give a fuck about your autistic diet.
Climate change is an existential threat and I will not die so you can eat meat. Whether you think a vegan diet is complicated or unhealthy or yucky is irrelevant. You have to stop eating meat. So, either stop now by choice so the transition is easier for you, or be forced to stop in the future when we run out of time.

While going against human evolution is not as damaging as you might assume. To say that the way humans have eaten for all but the last bit of history is unhealthy is a monumental claim.

As for the teeth argument we have omnivorous teeth and no where am i saying eat ONLY meat, just a majority and no breads

Yet you think people should care about yours

Vegans is an existential threat to my health I won't die to satisfy some new age diet.

No i don't
Do you have ANY evidence for this claim too?

I didn't make that claim. I said the evolutionary argument is a stupid one to make considering the fact humans have ability to go against evolved characteristics. I'm sure the teeth thing is still in contention, but I would still argue that the evolved teeth we currently have isn't largely a result of diet alone, but rather clan dominance characteristics. Orangutans have large incisors but eat almost exclusively plant material. Chimps do hunt but still mostly eat plant material. I guess it not really either/or but a combination of both. I didn't claim you said to eat meat only…just stop using the evolution argument because both sides are stupid to do so.

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We evolved to get the minimum amount of nutrition in order to reproduce and raise kids. Look at traditional hunter-gather africans, they're skinny as fuck and usually don't live into their 70s. What humans were able to scavenge and live off of for thousands of years is not necessarily optimal.

Yes i said this however my argument was that there is not evidence saying that going against evolution is optimal

Humans and chimps are two different animals. They have enzymes that make a plant based diet optimal we don't have those.
Well im arguing against the vegan here, who brought up the evolution diet

No it can't, certain amino-acids, fatty-acids and proteins are either exclusive to animal-products or are of poor digestibility.

Okay, so we'll eat insect meat. I don't care.
We still have to stop eating meat from birds, fish, and mammals. They're too resource intensive and too wasteful, even before you get into ethical considerations.

the only sustainable protein source is insects and maybe über-GMO soy
only bourgie fucks eat beef in any form

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Saying they're too resource intensive is a moral statement

Wouldn't insects be a reliable source of cattle's food rather than lots of crops that could be used for human consumption?

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livestock takes up like half of all farmable land on Earth, saying they're too resource intensive is an undisputable fact.

I hate political vegans because they're preachy assholes but I hope some of the meat fetishists in this thread also hate cockshott because he btfos most of your arguments in this thread with simple thermodynamics.

most livestock that can be fed purely on "artificial food" (chickens, pigs) are already fed with gmo soy. But cow need grass, their stomacs can't efficiently process anythign else
also watch this video and see why the current way of growing livestock is completely unsustainable: youtube.com/watch?v=wvQTmTPZix4

Do you have fucking brain cancer? It's LITERALLY the opposite of a moral statement, unless you think the ability to support life on earth for people is some kind of moral argument too? I'm not even a vegan jesus christ some of you fuckers need to neck yourselves, at least that won't make the problem worse.

That video literally starts off with malthusian bullshit, and I'm one of the people arguing against these retard meat fetishists.

ok and? seems like your gripe is with the industry not the meat itself.
But assuming you are correct, why is this a problem?
None meat can easily be farmed vertically

Its a moral statement because it is only a problem to him if he views raising animals to eat as too resource intensive

No it's simple fucking thermodynamics

what?
your level of butthurt is pretty funny
do you have an actual argument?

(you) are unintelligent.

Not really, they're jut being grown incorrectly.

no u

The global population at current projected levels of growth and development is expected to peak at around 10 billion, and then start to decline as birth rates decrease. To sustain that level of meat consumption for which demand equal to that of western standards as economies develop, from livestock is literally impossible on our current trajectory. Do you realise how much of our water production + food production goes into farming livestock and how much arable land is dedicated to it? When you factor in how much arable land is going to be lost from climate change it is LITERALLY impossible to sustain our current levels of meat consumption, unless you're arguing for population controls (read: genocide) or just want to maintain your comfy western lifestyle and leave the third world to rot, in which case, you'd be a reactionary, as all mathusians and those kind of types are. This is basic fucking science larger lifeforms are less energy efficient for a few different reasons but primarily because they exist on higher trophic levels.

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(me)
Watch these fucking videos
youtu.be/ciuVSKyM0cQ
youtu.be/lepMdZuZiHo
youtu.be/b8hnAB43O4g

this assumes we continue down the current trajectory, also assumes it is possible.

Yes and in western countries we are doing it fine. your point?

this ignores the amount of arable landed gained.

youtu.be/rec1DfWMjGQ
This one as well

is this like how al gore said it wouldn't snow after 2012?

What could go wrong?

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Pray tell then, what do you think is going to happen?

The production of livestock for western countries literally bleeds into the third world already, there are millions upon millions of acres of farmland in central + south america primarily for growing livestock that is sold + consumed in the first world. It doesn't work at scale when you have developing economies like China + India, with larger populations than anywhere in the first world, who are going to have much higher standards of living over the coming decades, which leads to consumption levels exponentially closer to that of the west. This means you need orders of magnitude greater arable land for both livestock + feed.

Which is significantly less than is lost, mostly in fucking Russia lmao, when you account for all factors.

What the fuck are you talking about nigger I'm not the other person arguing for enforced veganism, I'm saying that livestock consumption will be forced to go down because of real material factors related to capitalist development + climate change. Meanwhile all your arguments are denialism and deflection. I never fucking said anything about everyone on the planet needing to eat the same food. Are you retarded, you need biodiversity and it's not efficient to transport massive amounts of food across the globe to satisfy your autistic strawman about how we're going to force everyone to eat the same shit. Even just moving away from raising Cattle makes a massive fucking difference. I'm not a vegan, vegans are lifestylists who substitute liberal individualist ideology for politics. Plant based diet =/= veganism.

< y-you're just mad!
??? non-sequitor

we need local parks that already have irrigated grass to be given to community centers and converted into organic farms that donate fresh produce to food banks

need grants or tax fund to be given to local organizers for cooperative and public ownership with profits going back into the fund to buy up more parks

if done correctly on a large scale this could gut grocery store markups on produce and destroy the monoculture truck and diesel industry while increasing crop diversity, sustainability and decentralized self reliance and increase child nutrition nationwide

similar systems were implemented in cuba during the embargo to massive success

You’re preaching to the crowd m8

lmao what an absurd movie villain idea

this haunting specter infuriates me

Economic collapse most likely.

You only need more land if this people choose to adopt a meat based diet. The chinese basically survive on rice and tons of indians don't get cows so this is a none issue.

Good you agree with me here.

ok well thats just some silly predictions.
Even if that is true it would most likely happen in third world countries before it gets to us.

I'm asking for evidence then denying your claims when you cannot provide me with such.

It seems that way, how else do you figure we use too much land for animals.
You literally just argued that it is impossible for everyone in the world to consume meat so now in the same post you're aguing that you didn't just make that argument. literally what .
yeah agreed.

>< y-you're just mad!
Also I never said this

Climate change is real however its probably not man made and even if it continues there are pros and negatives to it
Also the earth has been much hotter before and life did fine

Then what's causing it?

Not when humans were around.
Who cares if life survives if WE don't?

natural heating and cooling

how do you know humans weren't around

That's not a real explanation.
What natural process is causing the heating? Heat can't come from nothing, thermodynamics won't allow for that. So, what natural heating process is causing climate change?

They aren't in the geological record.
Do you seriously think humans have always been around?

then explain the ice age

Its quite possible.

No it's not, you're retarded.

gdi hit reply before i intended
but yeah, you're retarded, please kill yourself

lol you can't even defend your own argument so you just shitpost after losing on the food debate

rekt