Leftism on Twitter and Facebook tends to be toxic and populated near exclusively by red liberals. Just recently I spotted some Anarchist whining about "NazBols and Asserites" who are "infiltrating leftist spaces." It seems like there's an entire hive of people with black flags in their names and pronouns in their bios who are really obnoxious and illiterate and who hurt the image of Socialist politics.
Is Zig Forums the only non-radlib idpol Leftist space?
Luis Martin
Other urls found in this thread:
knowyourmeme.com
twitter.com
John Perez
r/stupidpol (mostly whining), /marx/ and Zig Forums are definitely not liberal, neither care (and in fact criticize) idpol.
Nicholas Peterson
This is a legitimate concern, which is why those people were banned from here and now reside on Zig Forums.
Fascists pretending to be socialists is a hundred year old problem.
Thomas Miller
Not to narrow it down to an ultimatum, but we have two choices when it comes to these types. We either draw a big ideological and aesthetical line in the sand. Ideologically MLs are distanced from liberals. but the co-opting of our iconography and language has gone on for too long. A blue flag without the hammer and sickle would do. The other option which will inevitably happen is reeducation. I like to think of the allegory of the cave. That they need to be shown the light and heavily despooked. Not impossible, but there should be a guide to becoming a comrade and not a conservative/liberal class cuck. Shaming them by brushing them with the same stigma of being idpozzed as conservatives is a start. Anti-war should equate to anti imperialism, with the exception to the revolutionary armament to overthrow the bourgeoisie. etc. I'm Just spitballing here, if there is anything to add, or something that I've missed, or something that ive gotten fundementally wrong, do not hesitate
Alexander Hughes
Tbh though, the amount of people who subscribe to those respective ideologies are so small and inconsequential that even at the peak of the Nazbol meme there were maybe at most four unironic ones on this board. When people throw the accusation of being a Nazbol outside of here, it's mostly referring to either a) Someone with no sense of humor taking a meme too seriously or b) Someone who disagrees with a singular social/political opinion someone holds and throws the accusation of being a Nazbol as a snarl word. I've seen the CPGB-ML be accused of being Nazbols for some of their takes on things.
Jackson Baker
I actually noticed "Gang" memery outside of Zig Forums, and yup
Ryan Miller
That's because socialism had to evolve to mean what it does for you. Marx's description of various kinds of reactionary socialism is the populist inheritance.
Landon Campbell
On facebook are pages like Smash cultural capitalism, Red London, Normcore marxism, Tenacious ☭TANKIE☭ memes, The Red society which aren't pro idpol
Nolan Bailey
Join r/brocialism! I am new admin there!
Noah Campbell
r/anarchism is OK
Mason Bennett
lmao, I've seen you haven't actually looked that guy in OP up. He's launching a crusade against anybody who isn't a YAS QUEEN Hillary voter, he's written two long ridiculous articles about how r/stupidpol is "Strasserist" because of anti-IdPol and by cherrypicking a single NazBol post which got downvoted and ridiculed. This guy is the absolute stereotype of an anarcho-liberal who constantly sees Hitler everywhere.
It's not fascists he's "exposing", just regular old school communists who won't buy into postmodern theory.
Blake Gutierrez
I know the red London folks they are rockets. Some of the absolute shittest takes going I have seen from them. Some good ones, but generally they larp about being da truu voice of da working class while also waving hammers and sickles around as f the working class actually relate to that in any way shape or form. Lots of them are woefully historically illiterate and it’s basically a bunch of 30+ year old stalinists leading a gang of Twitter students/kids in a game of who can be the most obnoxious edgelord online. Had high hopes when I linked with them but actually turns out they are pretty retarded
Andrew Taylor
Zig Forums has been turning more Reddit while Zig Forums has become full fash
Brandon Diaz
This "anarchist" / radical liberal guy just seems like a weird gatekeeper but the stupidpol people mostly seem like people who've never done any organizing or ever engaged much with Marx at all and just complain a lot about feeling "burned out from the left." And they're annoyed with people but they haven't actually read the stuff that is animating the people they're annoyed by so they don't criticize it very well, at that. It's pretty stupid all the way down I'm afraid to say.
Tyler Jackson
And marx clearly stated that these various kinds of reactionary socialism were people we as socialists could not work with.
Carson Ross
socialism is when u kill nigs
Robert Perez
tell wat you mean about this
Benjamin Gray
Lots of anti-idpol leftists on Twitter if you actually look for them.
Dylan Brooks
Tankie twitter is non-radlib. You know what I'm talking about. Not the ones who are with PSL or whatever.
Michael Morgan
LMAO, I bet if you searched this entire catalog right now you will not find one Marx quote.
Thomas Bennett
You are completely correct.
These people are the braindead equivalent to the left as R/theDonald boomers are to the right.
Also anyone who uses the '3 arrows symbol' is someone to avoid.
shut the fuck up radlib you probably think marx was a cryptofascist
Facebook leftist groups seem to be the second least tainted with idpol nonsense.
Twitter and reddit are the main offenders.
Hudson Fisher
Hurrrr.
Easton Foster
On the front page? No one generally just randomly quotes Marx when making a thread post unless its referring to a question or a specific relevant topic. However, to say that no one is quoting Marx in any of the threads is a straight lie. The China thread, the automation thread, the leftcom thread, the "thread for asking questions that don't deserve their own thread" thread, etc. all have people quoting Marx in them. Lurk more.
Parker Powell
marx was a Jewish liberal who permanently destroyed socialism with anti-Aryan idpol
Austin Davis
The Iron Front logo was designed to cover Fascist symbols without much effort, shame it's been shit up
Christian Powell
It was shit up from the beginning. It represented socdem anti-communist anti-nazi radical centrism.
In germany SPD goons broke up communist meetings as well.
Robert Gray
Other groups started using it later though
Owen Reyes
It's got shitty origins as a socdem symbol.
Maybe in the 90s some anarchists used it because they thought it looked cool but now it has regressed to representing neoliberalism.
Austin Richardson
If no one is quoting Marx on a channel with several hundred supposed ML's it means there's not much of Marxist critique of capitalism going on.
Saying Aw man capitalism sucks amirite doesn't make you a Marxist, or even an ML.
Isaac Wilson
...
Justin Thompson
Where did he say that? He just implied it was utopian, built on a false consciousness, etc. and would become absorbed into proletarian, revolutionary socialism as the classes and conditions behind such varieties of socialism die.
It seemed to have been true for a time, but this is changing. As a result, there's been a retreat into accusing the left of being middle class radlibs and the right of being white labor aristocrats possessed by a chauvinistic false consciousness.
And up until then I'd argue socialism has been far more populist than scientific and revolutionary.
At what point do the populists cease to be imposters and just representing a non-Marxist brand of socialism?
Evan Gonzalez
bump
Jaxson Bailey
Twitter "anarchists" have been completely thoroughly infiltrated by Tumblr, neonazis, and US federal police.
You shouldn't even be using Twitter at all. Use Mastodon instead.
Yeah, there's libs on Mastodon too, but it's not Twitter.
Christopher Johnson
Look, I solved the Swastika problem, can I get a cookie?
Daniel Green
is this why we should all use linux
Jaxson King
ive been browsing the cspam board on somethingawful and the board seems to have the right idea on idpol in that it's good to empower marginalized people but idpol is bad insofar as it disallows or diminishes a class based understanding of society. the same sort of critique that zizek has.
Joshua Collins
They are small, but autistically persistent and can overrun spaces even with their lesser numbers. It doesn't matter if only 1 in 100 posters is NazBol if that 1 poster is making 80 posts for every 20 posts made by everyone else (and yes, that shit literally happens)
Joseph Collins
It's not your space to begin with comrade. Trade that authoritative looking hat for a sense of humour
Michael Richardson
lol internet forums aren't a natural resource that belong to everyone. They're artificial constructions that are made by people to serve specific communities. This very literally is our space, as long as we keep it.
Angel Perez
leftypol was better before leftpol was formed, deal with it you insipid cunt.
Owen Wilson
hey forum friend
i mean people need a basic understanding of the base and superstructure, otherwise they get these categories of "oppression" and "exploitation" mixed up. slavery in the united states was an exploitative economic system in which white supremacy as an *ideology* emerged, which then maintained the economic system. black slaves were exploited as slaves, and oppressed as blacks. but it wasn't hyper-moralistic idpol that freed the slaves: it was a material war of destruction against slavery as an economic system, which likewise transformed the social
it's like with the flint water crisis. if you engage with politics in this moralistic way where it's just a black issue instead of an issue with the fucking water being poisoned, you can't pressure the bureaucratic mechanisms of the government into doing anything. it's like what zizek says about "coffee without caffeine."
i'll also see conservatives use this moral framing, accusing marxists of believing the rich are "evil" who "oppress" the poor. but that's not a marxian framework at all. the left of course also falls into this trap.
Lucas Diaz
maybe they are the only online non-idpol space but I find idpol ist mostly an online phenomena so I guess you wouldn't even find problems organizing in the Democrat Cops of America or whatever and finding allies not even interested in idpol bantering considering they are wrecking that spaces (I'm a German so I'm not much into American politics but even in anarchist spaces I found that it's not really hard pushing anti-idpol statements outside cultist-like groups that can easily be avoided. The hardest idpol here comes from the Antigermans imho)
Josiah Cook
yeah and the antigermans seem really fringe.
my experiences with the D*SA have been pretty good with the exception of a few distractions. but that's just my local area and it seems to vary a lot with some idpol wreckers in a few chapters. i mean it's all relative anyways, but my mood is that the general tendency is trending in a positive direction. if you want turbo-idpol in the united states, join the democrats.
Colton Carter
It's just feels like constantly standing alert with a fishnet trying to separate a lobster from a goldfish, keeping peace in the tank.
Let's wait for a few dozen more leftists to arrive before we police them, eh?
Jaxon Evans
Sure, but to carry the metaphor forward if one of the lobsters starts killing goldfish lets pull it out of the tank instead.
Tyler Roberts
and resigning just leaves the idiots in their endless ciclejerk. I had one moment in a pretty anachist sqautting group about gendering all our statements and it wasn't really hard finding a majority consensus against it given that only one university type girl was pushing her hopeless agenda. Maybe I was just lucky but I really think our (as the non-idpol left) field is organizing outside of the internet. I also believe that the height of wokeness is over for a year or so, maybe since the Trump election and while it's important to still agitate against it we are now in a position to start thinking positive again like what we want and how we want it. Maybe I'm just too optimistic but as an clinically depressive white boy that's kinda unlikely?
Levi Moore
also fuck the Antigermans but I'm happy when they stay a national problem. I mean - realtalk - Germany will be the last state with a revolution anyway
Michael Cook
yes same, and i want to be optimistic… it does seem like the wave might have peaked as well. there are productive things happening with Backstabbin' Bernie in the united states but of course there's a big fight about it.
and when i said "if you want idpol, join the democrats" i really mean that. i incidentally came into proximity with some democratic party street activists (i mean loyal "party" people) and – while there are some conflicts here as well internally to them – it is pretty wild. like one activist with her jacket covered in pins including one that says "no more white friends." she was white, of course, and when i met her i saw that and made an ironic, smartass joke like "hah, well i guess this means we can't be friends."
again it's this performative, ultra-moralization that is totally self-defeating. there's no real substance to this at all and it has consumed them. as zizek said "where are the marxists here?"
if i recall correctly there is a similar tendency in the japanese left but i might be wrong. if so, i suppose that's what happens when you're a losing axis power.