What would culture be like in a socialist society? Many people argue capitalism...

Nathan Stewart
Nathan Stewart

What would culture be like in a socialist society? Many people argue capitalism fosters cultural creation but I feel it stifles creativity and promotes homogeneous garbage.

Attached: culture-socialism.png (5.41 MB, 2480x1736)

Other urls found in this thread:

independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html

Camden Nelson
Camden Nelson

Many people
capitalism fosters cultural creation
Not even capitalists think this.

Attached: 1481239204953.gif (3.46 MB, 377x372)

Nathaniel Anderson
Nathaniel Anderson

sooooooo many filming techniques were invented in the soviet union. I don't know anything about it but my anticommunist film maker friend begrudgingly told me this so if you have a google i am sure you can find

Jacob Martin
Jacob Martin

If one thing is certain, art and media in socialist societies, left unstifled, would escape from the haze of circular rehashes and safe market algorithms all forms of art and media is currently entrapped in. It would allow people to break from the old in its totality and allow actual new original forms of art and media to be forged, as opposed to the coattail riding inherent in all of culture today.

Noah Watson
Noah Watson

Are they forced to read "A Dialectic Approach to Film Form" by Eisenstein? lul cucked

Eli Brooks
Eli Brooks

Some truly braindead bootlickers do, I'm sure. It's pretty depressing.

Evan Peterson
Evan Peterson

Hopefully not de facto state propaganda.

inb4 this is anti communist slander

Some of you would seriously call pic related postmodern CIA engineered anti communist subversion if you didnt know the historical context. Then uncritically say that a portrait of Stalin at the beach or something is simply drawing attention to the benevolent leader of global proletarian struggle.

Attached: b02395456f06fb6d5d7bea0618ca05da1552b1ff.jpeg (77.61 KB, 961x768)

Matthew Hughes
Matthew Hughes

I want to clarify that overall I am optimistic and enthusiastic about the potential of art and culture under socialism but have recently just been annoyed with kiddies who make utopian claims about the unbounded possibilities of art under socialism and then have boomer troglodyte opinions about art in general

Kevin Brooks
Kevin Brooks

inb4 primary antagonism is between Ministry of Science and Ministry of Art

Adam Perry
Adam Perry

The USSR saw a massive wave of innovation through the avant-garde movement spearheaded by Dziga Vertov and Eisenstein. In a short amount of time, the avant-garde movement produced an absolutely staggering amount of masterpieces and world classics. It's one of the finest examples of what happens when the artists don't have to care about profits and are allowed to run hog-wild. "The Man with a movie camera" was basically a feature length experiment of editing images that bare no relation to each other to create impressions and stories. Eisenstein, through a revolutionary use of the montage-technique would make these films where the protagonists were effectively collective masses. Battleship Potemkin is probably the biggest example of this.

The avant-garde tradition carried over to the work of Andrei Tarkovsky who's films are basically heralded to this day as some of the most (if not indeed the most) advanced uses of the cinematic language. He'd make these intensely psychological surrealist films, often with very somber tone, that sort of break out of the traditional forms of drama and film as "story telling". I mean they have highly developed and effective dramatic structures, and they do each tell a story, but they follow a logic completely to their own, being effectively more instinctive and "cinematic" rather than dramatic in the sense of theatre or Aristotles' poetics. A big theme throughout the Eastern Bloc was that they'd give massive resources into really bold and experimental film projects - as long as they weren't too "dangerous" politically. Another good example would be a Belorussian film called "Come and See" which is probably the best film on WW2 Eastern front.

I still think they shot theirselves in the foot with too heavy state control about the "political" content. Even if you agree with the idea of censorship in general, the problem is that censors tend to be most mediocre and stupid people imaginable, and their biggest effect is to stifle creativity, while they remain too stupid to detect subtler forms of satire and protest.

I think if you'd want an example of what traditional film would look like at its best with little to no preassure from the state but in a culture where socialism has achieved hegemony, then I think Akira Kurosawa might be somewhere near to ball park. He was a communist party member in his youth, and while he later distanced himself from them, many of his best works remain very Leftist in their outlook. Seven Samurai is an epic action film about badass sword fighters that ends in muddy, non-romantic battle scene and straight out says that all Samurai are parasites and oppressors, and that the world belongs to the peasants. He also made a great film version Gorkys play "Lower Depths", which is basically a story about the self-perpetuating horror of poverty depicting lumpenproles who'd rather drink themselves silly and dream about salvation rather than go get it. "One Wonderful Sunday" is a film about a young, impoverished couple who go on a date in post-war Tokyo. The film's "antagonist" is poverty itself and the criminals and bourgeoisie who give the young couple no quarter. In an earth shattering scene the man is on his knees on the ground, completely defeated by the hopelessness of his life, when the woman suddenly turns to the audience and begs us to cheer him on, and while we're at it give a big hand to everyone whose young, deadbeat and hopeless. The woman also starts clapping and slowly the audience joins in the applause, unless it's comprised of Western bourgeois fucks. The man "hears" the applause and slowly starts rising up. It's the one example of "interactive" cinema I've seen that's not completely retarded, and the revolutionary thing about it is it calls the audience to recognize themselves as a collective with a shared relation to the film, and it calls us to support the young couple (and by extension, each other). Shit like this is still light years ahead of most socialists films I've seen, and it coming from Japan acts as an example of why I think

Attached: lataus.jpeg (19.51 KB, 208x300)
Attached: onewonderfulsunday.jpg (449.96 KB, 1172x822)

Jack James
Jack James

We would probably be forced to paint heads of Lenin, while everything else is banned. Jokes aside, why was USSR so autistic about art? No one's going to praising capitalism because he heard rock music

Sebastian Thomas
Sebastian Thomas

(me)
*why I think socialist outlook in Film and art can manifest in wildly different ways, and instead of heavy censorship a more productive way might be to generally trust the people (who are never the ones who start shilling revisiomism) and counter enemy propaganda through education

Jeremiah Cooper
Jeremiah Cooper

I think it was a natural effect of their general, often excessive censoriousness which resulted from tge prolonged state of siege. The Party was always paranoid by the people succumbing to Western degenerate influences, while revisionism always came ultimately from within the Party itself.

Logan Moore
Logan Moore

Excellent post.

Ian Gonzalez
Ian Gonzalez

Having literally just finished studying the topic, I think a lot of it was that a lot of revolutionary artists weren't actually Bolsheviks: like the great Revolutionary Poet Mayakovsky wasn't a marxist, he was just an egalitarian and vulgar workerist revolutionary. I think this is what a lot of the party didn't understand, that this isn't something negative, but an inherent positive. People being supportive of the revolution without being ideologues is a good thing, because it normalises the ideals and concepts of the revolution: look at France, Jacobinism as an ideology is dead but the revolutionary ideals live to this day. I think it was a clash caused inherently by the concepts of Leninism; which defined itself as the only acceptable doctrine of thought, vs the concept of pluralistic art. I mean Mayakovsky dunks on a load of both party-related and non-party artistic movements in 1920s Russia for not being revolutionary enough and not authentic enough to the Russian working classes. That's because to Mayakovsky, the revolution wasn't an event that put socialists in power in Russia, it was a concept that needed to be carried forward by the nation's artists. It was a workers' revolution because it was borne from them, and the new society must be too. I mean we see this conflict between the revolution as a concept and the revolution as an ideology come to fruition with socialist realism itself: which falls so hard on the latter. Socialist realism prescribes the revolution as an ideology unto itself, one that artists must keep to. It is this inherent conflict where the USSR's autism comes from.

Aiden Cook
Aiden Cook

They do, though.
They believe different flavors of hamburgers are culture though.

Attached: burgerstan.jpg (515.39 KB, 2048x1536)

Carson Hernandez
Carson Hernandez

did you know that the cia funded american modern art to one up communist surrealist art?

independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html

Parker Cox
Parker Cox

good effort post

Jayden Reyes
Jayden Reyes

great so we have them to thank for today's art schools

Attached: post-modern-art-school-is-retarded.png (161.66 KB, 662x1328)

Easton Price
Easton Price

It gets worse actually. Look up the Congress for Cultural Freedom. It's quite literally what right-wingers accuse "Cultural Marxism" of being, except it's actually real.

Attached: CCF.gif (940.02 KB, 1600x1088)

Dominic Green
Dominic Green

too heavy state control about the "political" content
It's a debatable discussion, soviet political censors were heavy handed but the resulting films with political content are more refined, because the people making those films have to be very careful and precise. This is indeed heavy pressure, but it creates political pieces that are also very well made - the creators of the film have to be exact and don't half-ass political insinuations or blatant opinion, unlike modern Russian trash films.

Outside of the direct political sphere, soviet films were largely in control of the film-makers, and we got many great films, such as the Comedies of Gaidai.

Moreover the planned economy system applied to the film-industry meant that filmographers, camera-men and others were ensured to always have work they could sign up for. For example in the Kazakh SSR each year there were 2 orders for nature documentaries and this allowed for hundreds of detailed nature documentaries made that are fairly unknown today.
Akira Kurosawa
That man is a master of film, and I'm unsurprised of his leftist youth. I really want to watch 7 Samurai again now, I haven't watched it in over a decade.

Mason Bennett
Mason Bennett

Thanks.

Ian Ross
Ian Ross

Artists usually must cater to the their patrons for funds, and when their patron is the state, you tend to get state propaganda.

Being an independent artist is a struggle in a capitialist society, but you can find more patrons than just the state, allowing more creative freedom in exchange for the challenge of getting people to voluntarily pay you.

Attached: lenin-stalin.jpeg (38.08 KB, 474x361)

Anthony Scott
Anthony Scott

you can find more patrons than just the state
allowing more creative freedom
<Those patrons dictate their requests no differently than the state
<socialist states don't dictate propaganda outside of political orders
<socialism doesn't exclude one-one patronage, so an artist can still sell art to a singular figure who orders it as a commodity/personal property.

Also that argument for capitalist society fails when you realize that capitalist 'art' is literally garbage with actual talent being dismissed over the ability to make shit that plays to consumers.

Gavin Brooks
Gavin Brooks

Excellent post, do you have source recommendations on this?

Jaxson Torres
Jaxson Torres

Labour voucher economy would prevent "self-employment" and commoditization of art. The state would provide tools and time for all, and patronage for the cream of the crop. Only then will art and artist be "free" and exist alongside high culture.

Kevin Wright
Kevin Wright

Why as a matter of fact I do!
Katerina Clark, Petersburg, Crucible of the Revolution, (Cambridge, Mass. : Harvard University Press, 1995)
Sheila Fitzpatrick, The Cultural Front: Power and Culture in Revolutionary Russia, (Cornell University Press, 1992)
Andrew Kahn, Poetry of the Revolution, (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2011)
I would also recommend Mayakovsky's "Decree to the Army of the Arts No.2" to get his real view of what he thought about art and the revolution: as himself a non-bolshevik it is quite interesting to see how the revolution is to him a process of establishing working class power in all sectors of society.

Also Shostakovich is the best Russian composer of all time anyone who says

Brayden Sanders
Brayden Sanders

Socialist culture will be a genuine culture of the masses.
Capitalist culture is also driven by the masses, but by the unthinking consuming masses, not masses that have taken agency for themselves. They are not engaged in the creative enterprise themselves, but buy creative works to distract themselves from their daily lives.
After the transition into socialism this will change, and culture will be produced on the basis of what people want to produce and see produced, rather than what they can be tricked into paying money for. This is an enormous change.

Another enormous change will be the abolition of copyright. Capitalism turns culture into property. Organizations get to own stories and characters, and make them unusable to anyone who contradicts their interests. If it doesn't do this, culture does not get produced. Socialism abolishes this state of affairs and makes every idea everyone's property.
When a capitalist company runs into a good intellectual property, only they get to work with it, and thus the future of this IP is entirely dependent on how competent they are. Without intellectual property, a good idea can be taken up by anyone with the inspiration. Whenever a brilliant story is told, the whole of society will get to build on it without limitations.
Suppose that all videogame resources are freely available for everyone to use. You will be able to combine existing material in an infinite number of ways. These can become professional games. Imagine videogames created by a unified modding community, that also gets the budgets that currently go into triple-A games. That's how communist videogames will be created.
Imagine all books that are written being freely available online, free to be copied and applied in whatever way people wish. This will open the space for totally new ways of thinking about information. We can create wikis just copying whatever passages we find interesting in the books we read, commenting and elaborating on them as we go. We can link texts to each other, move between different books as if they were web-pages. The linearity of written work will be broken entirely.

Communist culture will go beyond our wildest imagination.

Easton Torres
Easton Torres

Being an independent artist is a struggle in a capitialist society
but you can find more patrons than just the state
This is beautiful example where capitalism works wonderful in theory, but isn't true in real world. How often do you meet people outside of your mum's house?

Lot's of artists today are employed by theaters. Those are subsidized by state, but are given freedom to make stuff people want to minimize losses, or even make a profit. Another big group of artists are, as you mention, contractors which have agreements with some private entities to make money - with various success. Third, the biggest group, are artists which aren't in position to leave everything and try living off their creations.

Difference between socialist and capitalist regime is simple - in capitalist society most of artists must focus on their career. In socialist society, everyone is guaranteed job - hard, but for decent pay with no stress after work- which gives artist much more time to practice and create what he wants.

Pic related drawing is also "just competition with theme".

Attached: ClipboardImage.png (866.73 KB, 1024x627)

Jonathan Cruz
Jonathan Cruz

Honestly art in socialism would be like that one time in dwarf fortress where my dwarf spontaneity built a bunch of columns of wood, and it became an artifact.

Kevin Myers
Kevin Myers

The future can't come soon enough.

Attached: gervais.png (96.78 KB, 223x238)

Luis Walker
Luis Walker

Without intellectual property, a good idea can be taken up by anyone with the inspiration. Whenever a brilliant story is told, the whole of society will get to build on it without limitations.

Without intellectual property, a good idea can be taken up by anyone with the inspiration. Whenever a brilliant story is told, the whole of society will get to build on it without limitations.

Look at how shit mobile games are

Mason Walker
Mason Walker

Mobile games are nowadays very good, just filled with too much advertisement

Luke Adams
Luke Adams

I concede the point that artists are compromised by whoever their patrons are. However, even if a socialist state funds artists and does so without political orders, it is ultimately going to have to choose who among the artists gets funding, and whoever better appeals to those in-charge of the decision wins. If those in charge of disbursing art funds consistently choose things the upper party officials don't like, they are liable to be replaced. In this way, I think artists and art commissioners alike will feel pressure to bend in a certain direction.

As for consumer-oriented art being garbage, I say that's subjective; the consumers seem to keep buying it.

People can be artists in capitalist and socialist societies. Arts are publicly subsidized in both as well. You say the socialist model has an edge in the arts because people are guaranteed a job, but I think you overlook that if the artist doesn't do a good enough job, they will find themselves re-assigned to some shit job they don't want. In both societies artists have the stress of doing well enough to keep being artists, and both can worry about it or relax after work.

Attached: chinaart.jpeg (308.1 KB, 960x1243)

Joshua Smith
Joshua Smith

this has not stopped good mobile games from existing, it just floods the market with shitty ones.

besides the monetiztion is the largest rotting tumor in mobile games, and games in general.

Again capitalism making things worse than they could be.

Jonathan Taylor
Jonathan Taylor

I think you overlook that if the artist doesn't do a good enough job, they will find themselves re-assigned to some shit job they don't want.
No, I didn't overlook it. I was trying to say that artists which are not appreciated enough to live off their art are forced to work "normal" jobs. And since jobs in socialist regimes are not designed to suck your soul off, any artist would have more free time to create stuff after work.

Evan Bailey
Evan Bailey

could the MCU still exist in socialism? i know it is hyper-consumerist crap but i still enjoy it in a very superficial way despite the amount of exploitation and work it takes to make.

Blake Adams
Blake Adams

It obviously should be banned and reactionaries like you put in the gulags.

Tyler Sanders
Tyler Sanders

#teamcap

Dylan Ward
Dylan Ward

Most mobile games are people's attempt to make a quick buck. If they were created by people with the passion to create something good for others to enjoy, I'm sure they'd be great.

Ryder Reyes
Ryder Reyes

I'm sure some studio would expand the MCU under socialism, but it wouldn't get the massive budgets it has now, and probably have a lot more weird experimental shit in it.

Jaxon Robinson
Jaxon Robinson

Thanks, user! Any book in particular you'd recommend of these? I heard an interview by Sheila Fitzpatrick and have been intrigued, but even as I can read past bias, I'd really like to take a break from blatant anti-communism.

Jose Butler
Jose Butler

Depends, I prefered the Katerina Clark for the work I was doing because her descriptions of things like the anniversary celebrations in Petrograd were utterly fascinating. I would say all of them are critical to an extent, but not rampant anti-bolshevik propaganda.

Wyatt Jones
Wyatt Jones

No more abstract “art.” Through paint at a wall isn’t art. Never has been, never will. Realism will probably be the predominate form of painting.

Nathan Powell
Nathan Powell

lole pleb

postmodern art seperates the smoothbrains from the bigbrains.

Attached: Red-hulk-1-004.jpg (57.59 KB, 603x431)

Jeremiah Allen
Jeremiah Allen

Yeah, the bigbrains hate it.

Jace Hall
Jace Hall

there is a difference between validity and taste, dummy.

Daniel Long
Daniel Long

the emergence of art is a only the economic and social conditions reproducing themselves in the imagination of the artist. Art is a reflection, postmodernism , modernism are reflections. Art should be looked at in that way and no other

Andrew Morales
Andrew Morales

at the very least, art requires the context of the environment of it's creation. derrida says "nothing exists outside of the text", but if the author is porky then clearly there is bias and strategy in the piece's creation.

Jaxon Robinson
Jaxon Robinson

then its a reflection of porky isn't it my brudda

William Collins
William Collins

i suppose

Jordan Jones
Jordan Jones

No more abstract “art.”
Lmao. Kill yourself reactionary asshat. You're not taking my Kandinsky away from me.
Realism will probably be the predominate form of painting.
Realism in social depictions is good, but fuck visual realism. Just take a photo ya doofus.

Parker Murphy
Parker Murphy

Doesn't art also have an experimental-scientific aspect to it? It's the study of pure human creation, with no other purpose than to be interesting to other people. Labor for labor's sake almost. Surely we must appreciate the radical nature of that being socialists.

Aiden Martin
Aiden Martin

Pic related is better than all abstract art combined. Also abstract art is what is reactionary, because it’s only used for money laundering and tax avoidance. It has no other value, because it has no use value.
Just take a photo ya doofus
It’s not the same.

Attached: Raphael.jpg (192.83 KB, 1024x683)

Bentley Adams
Bentley Adams

I just want to chime in here to say Raphael and the other Renaissance artists are good in regards to their medium and time. However, to copy or attempt to replicate them is not only lazy, but dishonest. Attempting to make such art is not only creating something which is doomed to be in the shadow of the original greats, but expecting us to say such art is good because of those previous greats. Its cheap and it preys on our nostalgia and sentimentality to judge art. Michelangelo made his paintings, and died. Donatello made his sculptures, and died. Filippo designed his architecture, and died. They are theirs and any attempt to create art similar comes impressed upon it the idea that we should call that art "good" simply on the premise that it bears similarities to previous art that was considered "good". Either create something that is truly yours, or don't create it all. If you must make such tribute band art, be honest that you're nothing more than a tribute band. Don't attempt to fabricate a dishonest lie to me and embed it in head.

Attached: ilia-chashnik-kosmos-19253.jpg (48.72 KB, 506x589)

Adrian Perez
Adrian Perez

Are you trying to kill Art?

Brayden Ramirez
Brayden Ramirez

Art is good when it gives the viewer a message or idea. This message or idea must be easily understood, so that it can be universally transmitted to all. That’s the problem with abstract art. People are suppose to find their own meaning in the art. This prevents the formation of a universal.

Zachary Nguyen
Zachary Nguyen

This message or idea must be easily understood, so that it can be universally transmitted to all.
Art should demand some effort from the onlooker. We should aim for universality by teaching people who cannot comprehend it, rather than by dumbing shit down for them.
That’s the problem with abstract art. People are suppose to find their own meaning in the art.
Bullshit. Some abstract artists might have thought of their work like that, but they were wrong. Good abstraction aims towards the universal just as effectively as any other kind of art.

Attached: 1919-—-Gustav-Klutsis-—-Dynamic-City.jpg (424.35 KB, 1658x1658)
Attached: picasso-bulls.jpg (41.67 KB, 700x460)
Attached: Vassily-Kandinsky,-1923---On-White-II.jpg (148.26 KB, 562x600)

Hunter Evans
Hunter Evans

Bullshit. Some abstract artists might have thought of their work like that, but they were wrong. Good abstraction aims towards the universal just as effectively as any other kind of art.
They might intend a universal, but if you take a group of a hundred people and have them look at some random abstract art most will find no meaning in it. And those who do will vary wildly in what they think that meaning is.

Nathaniel James
Nathaniel James

You'd be posing them a loaded question. Abstract art isn't meant to convey a specific message. It's more a reflection on aesthetic experience itself, or even on pure shapes on a canvas. There is much to think about there.
Take the example of Picasso's bull. He isn't trying to tell you something specific, but rather playing with the way the shapes that make up the animal function.

Xavier Wright
Xavier Wright

1/2

I agree with the general notion, but you're taking it too far, or rather not elaborating enough. Abstract art can be used to as an aesthetic tool in a larger work, and even in more traditional or "realistic" forms, a level of abstraction is always at present. Or at least it should be. With no abstraction, you might as well be looking out of the window.

I think film is a good example of how stupid and mediocre shit gets when naturalism and realism become the default. At least since the 70's (but you could argue this started around 40's and 50's when genres like Film Noir and Italian Neorealism popularised a new level of realism and grit) there has been a constant move to more "realism" in Film, especially when it comes to stuff like story, dialogue and acting. There are still strong currents of more stylized film making, but the general trend is that the world and the characters therein should be "credible" ie. they should be such that the audience have an easy time "believing" that what they see is happening in their own reality, or a world that most closely represents that reality. Abstraction in this regard has become something of a quirk, while even heightened forms of traditional narrative genres, like melodrama, have become almost sources of embarrassment.

The highest level of abstractionist styles used effectively in Film was in my opinion seen during the silent era. The movement that pushed the envelope furthest were the Russian avant-garde movement I wrote about in an earlier post, but let's look at German Expressionism for a change. These were films that dealt with dark subject matter, and often fall into the more general genre of horror. Nosferatu is one example, but Dr. Mabuse, Metropolis and Faust belong to the genre too. The visual style of German Expressionism used abstract shapes and distortions to create geometrically disorienting and "nightmarish" landscapes on the screen. They relied on the formula of fairytale and legend to craft their stories. This was not a period of deep character studies. They used modern film making techniques and art styles - which they pushed to the limit - to deal with more primal layers of human psyche. This method could also be used very effectively to deliver a political message, as with the class-collaborationist Metropolis.

In America, some of these Expressionists, Fritz Lang most prominently, helped lay the foundations of another stylistic genre: Film Noir. The stories were more realistic American crime pulp, but the Expressionistic style - though much more subtle - helped give a visual representation of the desperate, often claustrophobic state of mind of the characters. Fritz Lang and his gang helped inspire a new generation of film-making which wished to deal more directly with social issues of poverty, corruption and crime, and this is what ultimately lead to Film Noir. The style was separate from Expressionists, but they left a strong imprint on the style, especially in regards to sharp angles, stark contrasts between light and dark, and the hilariously excessive use of smoke.

The trend towards realism took a next big leap with Italian Neorealism after WW2. This wave of film still retained a a whole wealth of experimentation and playfulness (not being complete morons, the film-makers still saw realism as a stylistic tool, not some sublime default everyone should strive for), but basically the most naturalistic of these films - like, say, the Bicycle Thief - are what dominate all those stupid 100 greatest films ever made. The next "big thing" in the bourgeois Film world was the French New Wave, which experimented with the extremes of pure naturalism and pure abstraction. The films actually worth watching from this gang lean heavier on naturalism - like 400 Blows - while abstractionist films - like everything that champion hack Jean-Luc Godard ever made - were utter intellectual masturbation and meta film. In my unpopular opinion, the only director who was consistantly able to pump out great films was Agnes Varda, who somehow managed to forge a synthesis with the extremes of the abstract and the real.

Attached: 245o423ctv021.jpg (102.86 KB, 1200x675)
Attached: asphalt-medium.jpg (124.43 KB, 600x338)
Attached: 69069ea5cb2553a4317c3205fb80afe4--s-faust-.jpg (23.51 KB, 449x326)
Attached: caligari.jpg (82.05 KB, 768x573)
Attached: pierrotlefou01-0.jpg (81.27 KB, 1000x562)

Brayden Jackson
Brayden Jackson

Of all these waves and styles, realism - sometimes sprinkled with cool cinematic trickery - is the ticket the bourgeois Film makers have rode on. Intellectual masturbation after all still requires a level of intellect to pull off, so what's left for the mediocrities that make the "prestige films" is to be as "real" as possible. What dominates the majority of all Western Film today - when we're not speaking of pure spectacle and escapism - is a boring, bloodless form of bourgeois realism. Even genres like comedy - the most celebrated pieces of which used to be dominated by utter madness and boobery like Chaplin, Mel Brooks, the Marx Brothers and so on - now require a form of boring middle class realism and melancholy to recognized at all (American Beauty, Woody Allen films etc.). This is probably because for realism to work, it requires a strong level of familiarity with the world and the people it depicts on the part of the author, and since 99% of the people working in the field come from the petty-bourgeois intelligentsia, hollow petty-bourgeois realism is what we get. While the film industry was never exactly proletarian, the wilder and more abstractionist forms and styles that were popular even in mass entertainment pictures up until the 60's and 70's (in some cases even 80's) allowed the film makers with actual convictions and sympathies for the lower stratas of society to delve into such issues without necessarily having to replicate the realistic conditions of the working people. Even genres that take their que from Film Noir have been completely bourgeoisified. Just look the fucking abomination of "Nordic Noir". Pure bourgeois realism about the angst of gentrified middle class cunts. When lower classes exist in these films at all, they're always in relation to the good hearted or guilt ridden petty-bourgeoisie.

Attached: images-w1400.jpg (59.97 KB, 718x404)
Attached: The-Intouchables-Movie.jpg (54.04 KB, 1000x563)
Attached: american-beauty.png (221.63 KB, 634x263)
Attached: flashbackparty-bluejasmine.jpg (127.92 KB, 1536x785)

William Evans
William Evans

(me)
Forgot to add 2/2

Juan Davis
Juan Davis

consumerism is the reason all of art and mainstream media today are dog shit.
conservatards like pjw and peterson blame it on cultural marxists when the cultural marxists were the first ones who spoke about it and looked into the effects on capitalism and consumerism on popular culture.
even in a socialist society media consumerism would still be a complex problem because majority of people would still choose shitty simple stuff or the shock value ones.
news consumerism is the most dangerous and complex form of consumerism because it allows almost full control over people and no one believes news provided by the state and having independent news outlets won't solve anything because they would still use the same tactics news outlets use today to gather the biggest following

Attached: AdornoHorkheimerHabermasbyJeremyJShapiro2.png (484.85 KB, 1067x696)

Nolan Murphy
Nolan Murphy

Capitalist culture is also driven by the masses, but by the unthinking consuming masses, not masses that have taken agency for themselves. They are not engaged in the creative enterprise themselves, but buy creative works to distract themselves from their daily lives.
Is this not, fundamentally, what the influx of personal computers in family homes, and mass access to the internet has changed? No longer are we asked just to consume products in order to fulfill this or that desire via advertising, to watch this movie or this TV show to have a laugh and just generally feel good, after the horribly boring and sterile process of work is done. Instead, what has happened, is that after the creative consciousness led to by virtual programming was fully organized and "streamlined" by the market, is that the process of consumption now implies within itself a "engagement in the creative enterprise". You cannot simply enjoy a certain pop culture franchise, you must also assert your consumer identity via the production of fan works in an effort to not only maximize your enjoyment but also partake in the making of art (vulgar, tasteless art, yes, but art), communicating also your enjoyment to all others. The communities based around modifications of videogames, anime, movies and music and so on reflect this. There's an underlying current of stretching the time spent engaging with the work as much as possible. The pressure is not only to enjoy, and communicate your enjoyment, but also to compete in a "social media marketplace" for attention, which usually decides whenever or not the artist may live off his work, via a gift economy. One could almost say that the old distinction between "work" and "leisure time" has completely eroded as a result: we work when we play and we play when we work. What is particularly interesting is the aesthetic forms this art (that is, fan works, or as my Japanese friend calls them, Doujinshi) takes: usually, even when it is deprived of clearly pornographic or "naughty" elements, it aims more at collective self-enjoyment than any particular universal or absolute goal. In the same way "hacker ethic" is neutered and deprived of it's true revolutionary character via it's participants' reluctance to step beyond "individual liberty" and the recent appropiation of such movements by Big Data, the massification of the means to do art is neutered by the reluctance to step beyond individual enjoyment and success. This is also why i am deeply skeptical of the possibility of any "genuine culture of the masses", to put it simply, most people are just too boring to make art, you know.

Attached: true.png (118.25 KB, 256x256)

Jordan Evans
Jordan Evans

No neoliberal bullshit capeshit.

Asher Jackson
Asher Jackson

The pressure is not only to enjoy, and communicate your enjoyment, but also to compete in a "social media marketplace" for attention
They're competing for clicks and the favor of the YouTube algorithm. That won't exist under socialism, where advertisements are no longer necessary for artists to make money. This changes everything.
which usually decides whenever or not the artist may live off his work, via a gift economy
Who gets gifts is determined by who is favored by corporations. Only they get the exposure necessary to build a fanbase. There are odd exceptions, of course, but those tend to be the creators who are actually good.
the massification of the means to do art is neutered by the reluctance to step beyond individual enjoyment and success.
And what defines individual success? Does being individually successful not imply being successful within a community? And does artistic success specifically not imply that you create something that this community considers to be good?
It is because the agents of capital deliberately manipulate our culture that this potential of universal enrichment is thwarted.

It'll be a gradual process for socialist culture to reach the heights it's capable of. At first it'll still be tainted with consumerism. This is why I'd say that next to a Patreon-like system choosing creators through direct democracy, we also need serious institutions funding and promoting the work of historical traditions and new interesting movements.

Liam Price
Liam Price

(me)
(also me)
I accidentally had this flair on from another thread. Sorry for the confusion.

Easton Reed
Easton Reed

This is indeed heavy pressure, but it creates political pieces that are also very well made -
I'm really interested. Can you give examples of Soviet films with precise political messages?

Disable AdBlock to view this page

Disable AdBlock to view this page

Confirm your age

This website may contain content of an adult nature. If you are under the age of 18, if such content offends you or if it is illegal to view such content in your community, please EXIT.

Enter Exit

About Privacy

We use cookies to personalize content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyze our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our advertising and analytics partners.

Accept Exit