Cheka/NKVD/Statsi/etc

Thread for discussing and posting everything related to the intelligence and security agencies of socialist countries/unions.
As a side note, edgy "secret police" memes are an untapped wellspring that we should be doing more of.

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=_zXKtfKnfT8
youtube.com/watch?v=_hzdDP90fTc
youtube.com/watch?v=xJD3J1xBN0E}
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militsiya
archive.org/details/tradeunionisminu00hoxi/page/n6
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch01.htm#s4

my dude the nkvd were a necessity for combating subversion and american espionage but nothing to be praised, their secret divisions had as much accountability as the cia

jews

Is this not something to praise or at the very least acknowledge as proper for the times?

Obviously meant for

Based

shit's all fucked up

I suppose if it gets the job done
Though tbh, a lot of what the Cheka is accused of is super exaggerated. That seems reasonable enough however, though I doubt the ice sculptures.

I'm not sure if all of that is true, but tsarist Russia was violent as fuck, and a lot of shit that seems incredibly shocking now was routinary back then.

A comrade once said about the Cheka: "Terror without direction is barbarism". China didn't have anything like the Cheka, and they had regular lynch mobs, which is something we must avoid.

“People before me were shit, so I’m allowed to be shit as well.”

I'm sure you'd have saved the revolution with flowers and chocolate boxes.

Not him but i think no respect should be given to the methods of previous socialist authorities, i mean we already know torture is less effective than other methods. At the very least i guess we should defend the soviet state by arguing conditions were dire.

If the conditions were dire enough to warrant it, then respect in the sense of understanding they did what they needed to do should be given.

That wouldn't really be respect, not sympathy either, i don't know the word exactly but i guess "understanding" is a much better term, to take them as not justifications, but rather as explanations of why they did it.

Reading Kotkin's biography of Stalin made Tsarist Russia seem like the Wild West.

youtube.com/watch?v=_zXKtfKnfT8

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This tbh. Whether it was pogroms, the forced labour camps (oh you don't think the bolsheviks invented the GULAG did you?), the general banditry, or landlords killing their serfs for stealing loves of bread: Tsarist Russia was as violent and repressive as the worst of Stalin era russia.

A good comparison tbh: mostly because of Russia's rural nature a lot of it was. Like Makhno was an outlaw-style bandit, and he lived in "civilised" Ukraine.

The Russian Federation alone has more policemen than the whole USSR used to have. The policemen per capita has basically more than doubled. I don't know why people have this pathological belief that (secret) police in socialist countries are worse than capitalist ones.

Bullshit that's physically impossible, not to mention counter-productive
Never read anything like that being done by the Cheka. The Nazis DID do this during WW-2 to soviet soldiers however, such as General Karbyshev and 400 of his men.

ALL NAZI WAR ATROCITIES ARE REAL, SOVIETS ALL FAKE

This, but unironically

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It's Nazi projection.

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The true redpill is realizing that all Soviet war atrocities were actually Nazi war atrocities deliberately misattributed to Soviets.

Are you joking or is there an example of this?

Katyn Massacre is a Nazi massacre and the soviets were framed. The West initially did not think it was the soviets, but after WW-2 picked it up for anti-soviet propaganda during the Cold War

Plus, recent attempts to investigate the Katyn massacre have been denied.

then why did the russian goverment under putin admit that it hapend and that it was coverd up for many years

putin is an anticommunist

In addition to secret police, there should also be a mass system of revolutionary collective vigilance, the eyes and ears of the revolution against capitalist subversion. Such as the inminban in the DPRK or the CDR in Cuba of which a significant percentage of the population are members.

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The funny thing about Putin is a anti communist in his country, but a communist ally with international politics.

Because they're anti-communists and it fits their agenda. The Katyn 'cover up' was a fake created during the gorbachev era as one of his excuses to demonize the soviets indirectly by "admitting crimes" and thus help the process of the perestroika to dismantle the USSR.

Either way, those officers were reactionaries.
>Whoever destroyed the officers at Katyn had taken a step towards implementing a social revolution in Poland
- Gabriel Kolko, The Politics of War: The World and United States Foreign Policy, 1943–1945. (1968) p. 105.

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Katyn should've been worse

CHANGE MY MIND

youtube.com/watch?v=_hzdDP90fTc

Honestly the western forms of counter intelligence are better. COINTELPRO and West Germany's old counterintelligence systems should be used

China has a ministry of state security

It more or less was outside the really big Cities like Moscow and Petrograd

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this 100%. A song {youtube.com/watch?v=xJD3J1xBN0E} about killing the opposition has so much more power than "we wuz oprrushin"

READ MACAHAVELLI

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They represent the people

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Not exactly a contradiction.

Obviously we would support one and oppose the other

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Is smug laughing an argument, Mr. "lmao, no people with guns to threaten reactionaries"?

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become an ancap

All of this has been argued before.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militsiya

"Functionally, Ministries of Internal Affairs are mostly police agencies. Their functions and organization differ significantly from similarly named departments in Western countries, which are usually civil executive bodies headed by politicians and responsible for many other tasks as well as the supervision of law enforcement. The Soviet and successor MVDs have usually been headed by a militsiya general and predominantly consist of service personnel, with civilian employees only filling auxiliary posts. Although such ministers are members of their respective countries' cabinet, they usually do not report to the prime minister and parliament, but only to the president. Local militsiya departments are subordinated to their regional departments, having little accountability before local authorities."

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You can never abolish the "state", as it's just an informal connection of people
archive.org/details/tradeunionisminu00hoxi/page/n6

t.never read marx

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more like the abolition of the bourgeois state by the proletarian state (dictatorship of the proletariat) which emerges in a revolution, and it withering away when the conditions for it are present.
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch01.htm#s4

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Anarchists have historically established/seek to establish a defacto vanguard (Makhno and Durruti making large decisions)through technocracy, but they're just too retarded to realize .

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Black Volga was some wild shit

You should honestly read Stalin.

I look at the institutions he made possible for one. Take the DDR constitution, for example, something that Stalin had undoubtedly input in. Articles 6 - 18 outline in law all of the progressive bs that modern democrats harp on today. You can say all you want about how the USSR and its puppet states kept people in line via secret police or that this is propaganda but the reality is that the percentage of police within these state was made up of far less of the total national population than most of the world today.

The states and industry that the Soviet people built had enshrined within them fundamental socialist ideals. You can't ignore that the USSR effectively kept the US and capitalist domination in check and forced reform after reform on them simply by existing and thriving in spite of them.

Formed in 1983.