Thread for discussing and posting everything related to the intelligence and security agencies of socialist countries/unions.
As a side note, edgy "secret police" memes are an untapped wellspring that we should be doing more of.
Cheka/NKVD/Statsi/etc
Mason Young
Jaxson Cruz
my dude the nkvd were a necessity for combating subversion and american espionage but nothing to be praised, their secret divisions had as much accountability as the cia
Oliver Hughes
jews
Justin King
Is this not something to praise or at the very least acknowledge as proper for the times?
Wyatt White
Obviously meant for
Andrew Wright
Based
Luke Rivera
shit's all fucked up
Brody Ross
I suppose if it gets the job done
Though tbh, a lot of what the Cheka is accused of is super exaggerated. That seems reasonable enough however, though I doubt the ice sculptures.
Noah Nelson
I'm not sure if all of that is true, but tsarist Russia was violent as fuck, and a lot of shit that seems incredibly shocking now was routinary back then.
Isaac Bailey
A comrade once said about the Cheka: "Terror without direction is barbarism". China didn't have anything like the Cheka, and they had regular lynch mobs, which is something we must avoid.
Tyler Williams
“People before me were shit, so I’m allowed to be shit as well.”
Jeremiah Thompson
I'm sure you'd have saved the revolution with flowers and chocolate boxes.
Dominic Lee
Not him but i think no respect should be given to the methods of previous socialist authorities, i mean we already know torture is less effective than other methods. At the very least i guess we should defend the soviet state by arguing conditions were dire.
Alexander Johnson
If the conditions were dire enough to warrant it, then respect in the sense of understanding they did what they needed to do should be given.
Kayden Johnson
That wouldn't really be respect, not sympathy either, i don't know the word exactly but i guess "understanding" is a much better term, to take them as not justifications, but rather as explanations of why they did it.
Evan Anderson
Reading Kotkin's biography of Stalin made Tsarist Russia seem like the Wild West.
Carson Price
This tbh. Whether it was pogroms, the forced labour camps (oh you don't think the bolsheviks invented the GULAG did you?), the general banditry, or landlords killing their serfs for stealing loves of bread: Tsarist Russia was as violent and repressive as the worst of Stalin era russia.
Cameron Peterson
A good comparison tbh: mostly because of Russia's rural nature a lot of it was. Like Makhno was an outlaw-style bandit, and he lived in "civilised" Ukraine.
Robert King
The Russian Federation alone has more policemen than the whole USSR used to have. The policemen per capita has basically more than doubled. I don't know why people have this pathological belief that (secret) police in socialist countries are worse than capitalist ones.
Oliver Mitchell
Bullshit that's physically impossible, not to mention counter-productive
Never read anything like that being done by the Cheka. The Nazis DID do this during WW-2 to soviet soldiers however, such as General Karbyshev and 400 of his men.
Isaiah Howard
ALL NAZI WAR ATROCITIES ARE REAL, SOVIETS ALL FAKE
Grayson Thompson
This, but unironically
Jace Roberts
It's Nazi projection.
Jonathan Myers
Sebastian Cooper
The true redpill is realizing that all Soviet war atrocities were actually Nazi war atrocities deliberately misattributed to Soviets.
Zachary Edwards
Are you joking or is there an example of this?
Hudson Rogers
Katyn Massacre is a Nazi massacre and the soviets were framed. The West initially did not think it was the soviets, but after WW-2 picked it up for anti-soviet propaganda during the Cold War
Ayden Lopez
Plus, recent attempts to investigate the Katyn massacre have been denied.
Lincoln Jackson
then why did the russian goverment under putin admit that it hapend and that it was coverd up for many years
David Stewart
putin is an anticommunist
Cameron Peterson
In addition to secret police, there should also be a mass system of revolutionary collective vigilance, the eyes and ears of the revolution against capitalist subversion. Such as the inminban in the DPRK or the CDR in Cuba of which a significant percentage of the population are members.
Anthony King
The funny thing about Putin is a anti communist in his country, but a communist ally with international politics.
Bentley Cook
Because they're anti-communists and it fits their agenda. The Katyn 'cover up' was a fake created during the gorbachev era as one of his excuses to demonize the soviets indirectly by "admitting crimes" and thus help the process of the perestroika to dismantle the USSR.
Easton Fisher
Either way, those officers were reactionaries.
>Whoever destroyed the officers at Katyn had taken a step towards implementing a social revolution in Poland
- Gabriel Kolko, The Politics of War: The World and United States Foreign Policy, 1943–1945. (1968) p. 105.
Connor Gonzalez
Isaac Wood
Katyn should've been worse
CHANGE MY MIND
Jonathan Bailey
Noah Wood
Honestly the western forms of counter intelligence are better. COINTELPRO and West Germany's old counterintelligence systems should be used
Colton Lopez
China has a ministry of state security
Samuel Robinson
It more or less was outside the really big Cities like Moscow and Petrograd
Luis Gomez
Josiah Flores
this 100%. A song {youtube.com
READ MACAHAVELLI
Christopher Anderson
Dominic Phillips
They represent the people
Julian Gray
Juan Lewis
Not exactly a contradiction.
Jose Bennett
Obviously we would support one and oppose the other
Christian Green
Is smug laughing an argument, Mr. "lmao, no people with guns to threaten reactionaries"?
Levi Brown
...
Jason Thomas
become an ancap
Cameron Clark
All of this has been argued before.
en.wikipedia.org
"Functionally, Ministries of Internal Affairs are mostly police agencies. Their functions and organization differ significantly from similarly named departments in Western countries, which are usually civil executive bodies headed by politicians and responsible for many other tasks as well as the supervision of law enforcement. The Soviet and successor MVDs have usually been headed by a militsiya general and predominantly consist of service personnel, with civilian employees only filling auxiliary posts. Although such ministers are members of their respective countries' cabinet, they usually do not report to the prime minister and parliament, but only to the president. Local militsiya departments are subordinated to their regional departments, having little accountability before local authorities."
Nolan Rivera
...
Adam Hernandez
You can never abolish the "state", as it's just an informal connection of people
archive.org
Christopher Cox
t.never read marx
Tyler Flores
...
Jackson Russell
...
Christopher Howard
...
Levi Bell
more like the abolition of the bourgeois state by the proletarian state (dictatorship of the proletariat) which emerges in a revolution, and it withering away when the conditions for it are present.
marxists.org
Justin Green
Anarchists have historically established/seek to establish a defacto vanguard (Makhno and Durruti making large decisions)through technocracy, but they're just too retarded to realize .
Juan Baker
Black Volga was some wild shit
Cameron Roberts
You should honestly read Stalin.
I look at the institutions he made possible for one. Take the DDR constitution, for example, something that Stalin had undoubtedly input in. Articles 6 - 18 outline in law all of the progressive bs that modern democrats harp on today. You can say all you want about how the USSR and its puppet states kept people in line via secret police or that this is propaganda but the reality is that the percentage of police within these state was made up of far less of the total national population than most of the world today.
The states and industry that the Soviet people built had enshrined within them fundamental socialist ideals. You can't ignore that the USSR effectively kept the US and capitalist domination in check and forced reform after reform on them simply by existing and thriving in spite of them.
Mason Fisher
Formed in 1983.