Cheka/NKVD/Statsi/etc.

Mason Young
Mason Young

Thread for discussing and posting everything related to the intelligence and security agencies of socialist countries/unions.
As a side note, edgy "secret police" memes are an untapped wellspring that we should be doing more of.

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=_zXKtfKnfT8
youtube.com/watch?v=_hzdDP90fTc
youtube.com/watch?v=xJD3J1xBN0E}
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militsiya
archive.org/details/tradeunionisminu00hoxi/page/n6
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch01.htm#s4

Jaxson Cruz
Jaxson Cruz

As a side note, edgy "secret police" memes are an untapped wellspring that we should be doing more of.
my dude the nkvd were a necessity for combating subversion and american espionage but nothing to be praised, their secret divisions had as much accountability as the cia

Oliver Hughes
Oliver Hughes

jews

Justin King
Justin King

my dude the nkvd were a necessity for combating subversion and american espionage but nothing to be praised
Is this not something to praise or at the very least acknowledge as proper for the times?

Wyatt White
Wyatt White

Obviously meant for

Andrew Wright
Andrew Wright

The Cheka performed what they called "gloving" which involved placing a victim's hands in boiling water, pulling them out, and cleanly peeling off the skin resulting in a pair of skin "gloves"
they would strip people naked outside in the middle of winter and spray them with freezing water which resulted in human ice statues in a matter of minutes

Based

Luke Rivera
Luke Rivera

shit's all fucked up

Brody Ross
Brody Ross

I suppose if it gets the job done
Though tbh, a lot of what the Cheka is accused of is super exaggerated. That seems reasonable enough however, though I doubt the ice sculptures.

Noah Nelson
Noah Nelson

I'm not sure if all of that is true, but tsarist Russia was violent as fuck, and a lot of shit that seems incredibly shocking now was routinary back then.

Isaac Bailey
Isaac Bailey

A comrade once said about the Cheka: "Terror without direction is barbarism". China didn't have anything like the Cheka, and they had regular lynch mobs, which is something we must avoid.

Tyler Williams
Tyler Williams

“People before me were shit, so I’m allowed to be shit as well.”

Jeremiah Thompson
Jeremiah Thompson

I'm sure you'd have saved the revolution with flowers and chocolate boxes.

Dominic Lee
Dominic Lee

Not him but i think no respect should be given to the methods of previous socialist authorities, i mean we already know torture is less effective than other methods. At the very least i guess we should defend the soviet state by arguing conditions were dire.

Alexander Johnson
Alexander Johnson

very least i guess we should defend the soviet state by arguing conditions were dire.
If the conditions were dire enough to warrant it, then respect in the sense of understanding they did what they needed to do should be given.

Kayden Johnson
Kayden Johnson

That wouldn't really be respect, not sympathy either, i don't know the word exactly but i guess "understanding" is a much better term, to take them as not justifications, but rather as explanations of why they did it.

Evan Anderson
Evan Anderson

Reading Kotkin's biography of Stalin made Tsarist Russia seem like the Wild West.

youtube.com/watch?v=_zXKtfKnfT8

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Carson Price
Carson Price

This tbh. Whether it was pogroms, the forced labour camps (oh you don't think the bolsheviks invented the GULAG did you?), the general banditry, or landlords killing their serfs for stealing loves of bread: Tsarist Russia was as violent and repressive as the worst of Stalin era russia.

Cameron Peterson
Cameron Peterson

A good comparison tbh: mostly because of Russia's rural nature a lot of it was. Like Makhno was an outlaw-style bandit, and he lived in "civilised" Ukraine.

Robert King
Robert King

The Russian Federation alone has more policemen than the whole USSR used to have. The policemen per capita has basically more than doubled. I don't know why people have this pathological belief that (secret) police in socialist countries are worse than capitalist ones.

Oliver Mitchell
Oliver Mitchell

The Cheka performed what they called "gloving" which involved placing a victim's hands in boiling water, pulling them out, and cleanly peeling off the skin resulting in a pair of skin "gloves"
Bullshit that's physically impossible, not to mention counter-productive
strip people naked outside in the middle of winter and spray them with freezing water which resulted in human ice statues in a matter of minutes
Never read anything like that being done by the Cheka. The Nazis DID do this during WW-2 to soviet soldiers however, such as General Karbyshev and 400 of his men.

Isaiah Howard
Isaiah Howard

ALL NAZI WAR ATROCITIES ARE REAL, SOVIETS ALL FAKE

Grayson Thompson
Grayson Thompson

This, but unironically

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Jace Roberts
Jace Roberts

It's Nazi projection.

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Jonathan Myers
Jonathan Myers

ALL NAZI WAR ATROCITIES ARE REAL, SOVIETS ALL FAKE

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Sebastian Cooper
Sebastian Cooper

The true redpill is realizing that all Soviet war atrocities were actually Nazi war atrocities deliberately misattributed to Soviets.

Zachary Edwards
Zachary Edwards

Are you joking or is there an example of this?

Hudson Rogers
Hudson Rogers

Katyn Massacre is a Nazi massacre and the soviets were framed. The West initially did not think it was the soviets, but after WW-2 picked it up for anti-soviet propaganda during the Cold War

Ayden Lopez
Ayden Lopez

Plus, recent attempts to investigate the Katyn massacre have been denied.

Lincoln Jackson
Lincoln Jackson

then why did the russian goverment under putin admit that it hapend and that it was coverd up for many years

David Stewart
David Stewart

putin is an anticommunist

Cameron Peterson
Cameron Peterson

In addition to secret police, there should also be a mass system of revolutionary collective vigilance, the eyes and ears of the revolution against capitalist subversion. Such as the inminban in the DPRK or the CDR in Cuba of which a significant percentage of the population are members.

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Anthony King
Anthony King

The funny thing about Putin is a anti communist in his country, but a communist ally with international politics.

Bentley Cook
Bentley Cook

why did the russian goverment under putin admit that it hapend and that it was coverd up for many years
Because they're anti-communists and it fits their agenda. The Katyn 'cover up' was a fake created during the gorbachev era as one of his excuses to demonize the soviets indirectly by "admitting crimes" and thus help the process of the perestroika to dismantle the USSR.

Easton Fisher
Easton Fisher

Either way, those officers were reactionaries.
Millions of Poles were killed in German death camps throughout the war, and with considerably less sustained outcry from the London government.
Indeed, only that very month the Germans were annihilating some 50000 Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto rebellion, and far less was heard from London on this matter.
Katyn was an infinitely more sensitive issue because the men killed there, as Polish underground leader Tadeusz Bor-Komorowski described them, 'had been the elite of the Polish nation . . .,' that is to say, the friends and family of the exiles in London.
Whoever destroyed the officers at Katyn had taken a step towards implementing a social revolution in Poland
, and on the basis of class solidarity, the London Poles felt one officer was worth many Jews or peasants.
- Gabriel Kolko, The Politics of War: The World and United States Foreign Policy, 1943–1945. (1968) p. 105.

Connor Gonzalez
Connor Gonzalez

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Isaac Wood
Isaac Wood

Katyn should've been worse

CHANGE MY MIND

Jonathan Bailey
Jonathan Bailey

youtube.com/watch?v=_hzdDP90fTc

Noah Wood
Noah Wood

Honestly the western forms of counter intelligence are better. COINTELPRO and West Germany's old counterintelligence systems should be used

Colton Lopez
Colton Lopez

China has a ministry of state security

Samuel Robinson
Samuel Robinson

It more or less was outside the really big Cities like Moscow and Petrograd

Luis Gomez
Luis Gomez

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Josiah Flores
Josiah Flores

"secret police" memes are an untapped wellspring that we should be doing more of.
this 100%. A song {youtube.com/watch?v=xJD3J1xBN0E} about killing the opposition has so much more power than "we wuz oprrushin"
READ MACAHAVELLI

Christopher Anderson
Christopher Anderson

Leftypol hates police
Leftypol loves police

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Dominic Phillips
Dominic Phillips

They represent the people

Julian Gray
Julian Gray

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Juan Lewis
Juan Lewis

hates the enforcing arm of states they hate
likes the enforcing arm of states they like
Not exactly a contradiction.

Jose Bennett
Jose Bennett

defenders of the capitalist state and bourgeoisie.
defenders of the socialist state and the dictatorship of the proletariat
Obviously we would support one and oppose the other

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Christian Green
Christian Green

Is smug laughing an argument, Mr. "lmao, no people with guns to threaten reactionaries"?

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Levi Brown
Levi Brown

believing that marxism calls for a the creation of state when it actually calls for the abolition of a state

Jason Thomas
Jason Thomas

when people use force they're creating a state
become an ancap

Cameron Clark
Cameron Clark

All of this has been argued before.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militsiya

"Functionally, Ministries of Internal Affairs are mostly police agencies. Their functions and organization differ significantly from similarly named departments in Western countries, which are usually civil executive bodies headed by politicians and responsible for many other tasks as well as the supervision of law enforcement. The Soviet and successor MVDs have usually been headed by a militsiya general and predominantly consist of service personnel, with civilian employees only filling auxiliary posts. Although such ministers are members of their respective countries' cabinet, they usually do not report to the prime minister and parliament, but only to the president. Local militsiya departments are subordinated to their regional departments, having little accountability before local authorities."

Nolan Rivera
Nolan Rivera

using the term socialist state unironically

Adam Hernandez
Adam Hernandez

You can never abolish the "state", as it's just an informal connection of people
archive.org/details/tradeunionisminu00hoxi/page/n6

Christopher Cox
Christopher Cox

t.never read marx

Tyler Flores
Tyler Flores

never left armchair

Jackson Russell
Jackson Russell

believes Stalin implemented socialism

Christopher Howard
Christopher Howard

believes internal security isn't a thing

Levi Bell
Levi Bell

more like the abolition of the bourgeois state by the proletarian state (dictatorship of the proletariat) which emerges in a revolution, and it withering away when the conditions for it are present.
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch01.htm#s4

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Justin Green
Justin Green

Anarchists have historically established/seek to establish a defacto vanguard (Makhno and Durruti making large decisions)through technocracy, but they're just too retarded to realize .

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Juan Baker
Juan Baker

Black Volga was some wild shit

Cameron Roberts
Cameron Roberts

You should honestly read Stalin.

I look at the institutions he made possible for one. Take the DDR constitution, for example, something that Stalin had undoubtedly input in. Articles 6 - 18 outline in law all of the progressive bs that modern democrats harp on today. You can say all you want about how the USSR and its puppet states kept people in line via secret police or that this is propaganda but the reality is that the percentage of police within these state was made up of far less of the total national population than most of the world today.

The states and industry that the Soviet people built had enshrined within them fundamental socialist ideals. You can't ignore that the USSR effectively kept the US and capitalist domination in check and forced reform after reform on them simply by existing and thriving in spite of them.

Mason Fisher
Mason Fisher

Formed in 1983.