There are communists who concede on "muh holodomor"

The narrative that it was deliberately inflicted on Ukrainians by communists isn't pushed even by people literally paid to spew anti-communist propaganda. Moreover, the famine itself was caused by kulak sabotage.

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The Holodomor famine shtick is retarded because famine has been commonplace throughout history. The British Empire under Churchill presided over a famine that killed millions of Bengalis during WW2 (which he didn't care about because he legit hated Indians). But when it happens in the USSR, it's politicized and used as an argument for how socialism doesn't work. It's a completely disingenuous line of argumentation. If every system that's ever experienced a famine is invalidated, then capitalism would be invalidated ten times over.

Source?

>In 1943, some 3 million brown-skinned subjects of the Raj died in the Bengal famine, one of history's worst. Mukerjee delves into official documents and oral accounts of survivors to paint a horrifying portrait of how Churchill, as part of the Western war effort, ordered the diversion of food from starving Indians to already well-supplied British soldiers and stockpiles in Britain and elsewhere in Europe, including Greece and Yugoslavia. And he did so with a churlishness that cannot be excused on grounds of policy: Churchill's only response to a telegram from the government in Delhi about people perishing in the famine was to ask why Gandhi hadn't died yet.

>British imperialism had long justified itself with the pretense that it was conducted for the benefit of the governed. Churchill's conduct in the summer and fall of 1943 gave the lie to this myth. "I hate Indians," he told the Secretary of State for India, Leopold Amery. "They are a beastly people with a beastly religion." The famine was their own fault, he declared at a war-cabinet meeting, for "breeding like rabbits."

content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2031992,00.html

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Can I use the same logic when debating the trans-atlantic slave trade…. please ?

Retarded to deny any aspect of history. Conceal nothing, learn everything.

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???
Only if you're dumb enough to think I was advocating or apologizing for famines and not simply trying to point out the hypocrisy and flaws of the Holodomor-argument. The USSR brought and end to the famines that had plagued Russia for its entire history.

Can I use the same logic when mentioning slavery? The White man brought and end to slavery that had plagued the world for its entire history

In case you mean reparations, we don't want that.

Okey, I'm very confused. I consume lefties media (I think so) every day in the form of TYT and other channels like them. You people seem different from the progressive types, am I right?

If you think we consider slavery to be bad because wypipo, and that it's okay when muslims do it, you are very much mistaken.

Considering the suicide nets in China, the sweatshops in India, and the conditions under which lithium is extracted in Africa, I'm going to have to say this is false.

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I don't condone that. Consumerism is a plague.

Liberals still aren't left-wing. Jimmy "Arm the Poor" Dore left.

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I guess, when someone here comes with twitter-breadtube-like opinions they are quickly refered to as "radlib", which just means focus on identity issues rather than class.

wew lad, never heard that one before

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Made me lol

I'm not a liberal. I'm a right-winger who just enjoys consuming liberal media (for the keks mostly).

Capitalism IS at fault. I could even argue that Capitalism has the potential to be more dangerous, but less visibly so, than Communism. Both are poison to me. You are too materialistic. That's the problem. Everything has to be seen and valued from the lens of the materia. There's not enough spirituality

Fucking based and blessed post and thread
Now is precisely the time not to concede

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tell Orwell that

This is retarded in regards to any race or group of people. Economic system collapse because to the material conditions of society, not beceause of ideals.
Also, marxists are not absolutists. Slavery as a system had it's time and place, and at one time was a necessary historical devopment. m.youtube.com/watch?v=vM2Arjuw43I

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I'm genuinely shocked to see a self proclaimed lefties say anything like that. I fully agree, but wouldn't you be labeled a Nazi for saying anything like that in public? I feel like you people are not on the same team as the liberals and the progressives.

Do you even know what materialism means?

Whether or not the left is "too materialistic" or has "not enough spirituality" is entirely irrelevant. Spirituality results from material processes, and material processes drive the development of history.

How so? Why do you believe I don't?

You can't base a mode of production - something objectively based in the real, material world - on spirituality. If your "preferred" system has private ownership of production, generalised commodity production, wage labour, and then a bunch of spooky spiritual bullshit slapped on top, it's capitalism with a bunch of spooky spiritual bullshit slapped on top.

I said Capitalism and Communism. Both are at fault here. I even said that Capitalism has the potential to be even more dangerous. Capitalism sedates the mind, makes people dull, weak and brainwashed into consumerism (materialism)

Because we are not, liberals think private property is the path to happiness, they are idealistic, we are materialistic (which you don't like)

We believe feudalism and capitalism were necessary to develop the productive forces which communism wouldn't be achievable without.

Yeah so you don't know what materialism means.

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Did you even read Marx or Engles?

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FYI OP is right on literally all of these. You can call yourself a communist but still peddle these lies but you aren't. Especially the Holodomor lie runs deep even amongst those who don't believe in the gorillions.

I never said that you should. Is economics all you people talk about here, seriously? I feel like every topic on this board is about economics.

No. I'm from 4chan, Zig Forums. I was bored and felt like lurking this part of the Internet. Now I'm genuinely curious to understand your position.

Today we saw a Zig Forumslack realize what dialectical materialism is in real time.

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you tank-ancoms are based as fuck

Yes, a big userbase here is what most people would call "class reductionist", i guess the constant comparisons between liberals and communists gave this board a PTSD every time any issues but class issues are brough up, kind of how a lot of users try to appear more politically incorrect by saying racial slurs all the time.

I mean, if you are saying we dont't talk enough about "spiritual" issues, we straight up don't believe in that, social issues wise we have some threads every now and then.

Mostly, since capitalism is an economic issue. But we also dive into sociology, anthropology, and such.

On the good and best of days, it should be. Unfortunately, shitposting and off-topic discussion tends to cause a decline in that. I fucking wish we only had economic threads right now.

My point is that you can't solve all of the worlds problems with money. Basing an entire philosophy on solely or mainly economics is a recipe for disaster, whether it's Capitalistic or Communistic. There are simply things in life that can't be solved with money. This materialistic world view reduces people down to numbers, efficiency, productivity and such terms often used in economics.

I became a Libertarian after getting brainwashed by Stefan Molyneux. I view everything in the world (and throughout the history) through the lens of economics. It was when I started to think about morality and ethics when I realized what a complete foolish theory of philosophy these economically based political ideologues are.

Even if the gorillions weren't exaggerated in places they weren't completely made up, the number would still be too low.

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This board doesn't really have as much of a unified political narrative or strategy as Zig Forums does (or once did) but most people on Zig Forums basically believe some form of the scientific socialism Marx and Engels originally formulated. Basically that capitalism was a necessary phase in human development just as precious epochs were because, just as other economic systems, it not only creates the conditions for the negation of the preceding system but also for its self negation. The next step after realizing this is to formulate the seed of the society that comes after capitalism's contradictions create this self-negation so that the working class can seize the and reorganize the means of production and existence and reorganize them in a way that eliminates the structures which created both capitalism's indisputable achievements but also it's horrendous contradictions.

That's the jumping off point and there's a lot of disagreement among various factions of how to actually proceed with this, largely due to Marxism being in its purest form a critical rather than practical analytical tacitic.

If you want more of the things Marxists do and don't believe I recommend you read Socialism: Utopian or Scientific by Engels. It's very short and articulates in a pretty clear way what anyone in the modern day who considers themselves a serious commie-whether they be anarchist or Leninist or a leftcom-generally think and agree on:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm

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Maybe don't look for the biggest hacks in the current "economically based" political climate today? read Marx, actual economists.

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fixed that for you. also read marx.

Morality and ethics concerning the Libertarian stances.

OOF

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Welcome to one of the last few bastions of online anti-idpol leftism. Quite a few of the anons here are ex-pol themselves. Unfortunately, Zig Forums and others smear us as the opposite, so that causes some confusion.

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Ahem
*ting ting ting*
Fuck the USSR, fuck ☭TANKIE☭s and fuck Stalin

Libertarianism is a meme, I know.

>>>/liberalpol/

Anarkiddies (outside of the two based ones in this thread) can go

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Daily reminder that everyone who calls themselves a "Libertarian" but still bitches about Jews and "The establishment" is a hypocrite because the only non jew thinker who influenced modern neoliberalism is von Mises and this thought is what led to Koch brothers who control the majority of one party and probably 1/4th of another to form the Libertarian Party and the Tea Party

Sorry to break it too you, but von Mises was a jew too. Libertarianism is jewish invention, plain and simple.

Eh, the made marxism too so it's okay.

Is this the lefties stances on the JQ? Because a Jew invented marxism, it's all forgiven now?

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Yes.

Marx was pretty anti-semitic.

He was moderately anti-semitic at most.

The Russians are primitive folk. Besides, Bolshevism is something that stifles individualism and which is against my inner nature. Bolshevism is worse than Not Socialism — in fact, it can't be compared to it. Bolshevism is against private property, and I am all in favor of private property. Bolshevism is barbaric and crude, and I am fully convinced that that atrocities committed by the Nazis, which incidentally I knew nothing about, were not nearly as great or as cruel as those committed by the Communists. I hate the Communists bitterly because I hate the system. The delusion that all men are equal is ridiculous. I feel that I am superior to most Russians, not only because I am a German but because my cultural and family background are superior. How ironic it is that crude Russian peasants who wear the uniforms of generals now sit in judgment on me. No matter how educated a Russian might be, he is still a barbaric Asiatic. Secondly, the Russian generals and the Russian government planned a war against Germany because we represented a threat to them ideologically. In the German state, I was the chief opponent of Communism. I admit freely and proudly that it was I who created the first concentration camps in order to put Communists in them. Did I ever tell you that funny story about how I sent to Spain a ship containing mainly bricks and stones, under which I put a single layer of ammunition which had been ordered by the Red government in Spain? The purpose of that ship was to supply the waning Red government with munitions. That was a good practical joke and I am proud of it because I wanted with all my heart to see Russian Communism in Spain defeated finally.

We don't hate jews themselves, but Zionism is a complete bannable offense here.

Sure, and no wonder. How do lefties cope with this?

I think the only thing keeping the left from swallowing the JQ pill is the fact that Jews are a minority which is an inherent contradiction with their view on power relations between the oppressed and the oppressor. Lefties (and I'm lumping in the progressives/liberals for now) have this view that minorities will by default be less powerful than the majority. At paper this makes total sense, more people = stronger. But you fail to consider other aspects in particular two things: 1. Intelligence differences between groups and 2. levels of tribalism. An intelligent, highly tribal group will always outcompete a less intelligent, non-tribal group.

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Then there is no jewish conspiracy now there is there? Jews are just the master race.

is there*

Proof that not even Nazi's back then read Marx or even Lenin.

Good thing I am not commie faggot because the chances of me being killed by one would be a lot greater otherwise.

Read this faggot

Excuse me, what? This doesn't even make sense in regards to your 2d view of Marxism. Marxists literally believe that the Bourgeoisie currently in capitalist society have power over the proletariat, the bourgeoisie class being far smaller than the proletariat. How does what you're saying even match-up with Marxism?

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I lumped in liberals for a reason. Liberals love to stand behind minorities, don't they?

The problem is you assumed they are leftists.

It will take me some time before I make a distinction. I have listened to enough TYT and other supposed lefties channels to automatically assume all lefties are the same.

If you meant breadtube i hope you don't think Contrapoints is a communist. For channels in breadtube that get close to being content a lot of users would agree with there's Badmouseproductions, i mean some channels get lumped into breadtube just because they may have anti-capitalist beliefs like Shaun or Three Arrows, i don't think Three Arrows actually knows what socialism is.

I mean this: is just a theory I came up with. If any lefty has a valid reason to why you never adress the JQ, I would gladly listen.

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It doesn't even work with most liberals tbh, whites are and have been a minority in cases where liberals will say that they are hegemonic (basically all of colonialism for instance). Liberals believe in an "elite", which like for fascists, is defined semi-economically and semi-culturally.

I think most of Breadtube believes that capitalism is flawed system. They might not be socialists but its fair to call them "post-capitalists".

If you want YouTube communists listen to Marxist-Leninist channels like Finnish Bolshevik inb4 his history, Hakim, and Tovarishch Endymion. Even syndicalists like Pierre are good. For older communists there is Parenti, who I believe still does talks, and Cockshott, who goes into providing evidence for the LVT.

Besides our focus on class? We don't deny that there may be collusion and favoritism among certain industires of the capitalist class, but we simply don't care. That's how capitalism operates and it's the structure it cultivates. We want to do away with capitalism as a whole, not simply eliminate a group and hope that fixes it. If we were to talk in your terms, we wish to eliminate what constitutes the jew, not the jew himself.
To quote Marx:

Because it's irrelevant.

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wtf do you mean by "the Jewish question"? I'd be willing to entertain an anthropology of Judaism, and studies about in-group favoritism, but this just seems like liberal idpol stuff, but saying that Jewish racism/religion is also bad… Which is true, but accepted by basically every Marxist, and a good deal of liberals.
As to why we don't view jewishness as foundational to the ruling class, it's because they obviously aren't even in the US, let alone ME or east Asian countries. At best if you wanted to save some sliver of anti-semitism conspiracy-ish paranoia you could say that it is a competing bourgeois faction seeking to gain supremacy, but…
1. I don't see, nor do Zig Forumstards even bring up any evidence for rich Jews in the US separating themselves in any real way from rich Christians/whites etc.
2. Expelling Jews or Judaism would do absolutely nothing for creating socialism, even if they were their own organized bourgeois faction
3. There would still be no reason to have any serious antipathy (maybe you could critique their racism or religion, but that's idpol that's done for whites already and it doesn't mean much) for Jews which are members of the proletariat.

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As a White porn addict,
Black males are lame in porn. They are just there to show off their big dicks but their skills are lacking in my opinion because I am someone who enjoys rough porn.Manuel Ferrara is the best male porn actor. If you saw him in action, when he was younger especially, you develop a fetish for rougher porn and Blacks are not rough. It's most of the time just slow sex with focus on the males above average penis.
I also do not feel attracted to Black or Asian women. For example Asian women, they are pretty, some are really, really pretty but I could never imagine having sex with them and porn with Asian women is a turn off as well.I only feel attracted to White and Hispanic people, which is the reason that I want to see actors and actresses of this race. I also want to put myself into the actors shoes and can't do it when he's not White.White people make the best porn, it's rough, dirty, it's like I would have sex if I become rich. I would go to UK Sugarbabes and order two or three of these women and have the sex they have in porn, with lots of viagra, cocaine and rough sex like as gaping, spitting and so on. Most Blacks and other races don't have this kind of porn that I am looking for.

If you take any porn myths about penis size you are extremely dumbo wombo. Blacks don't have the largest cocks, it's more likely some well-fed white country somewhere in Europe has larger members.

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I like how literally no one still has proof of this besides a single comment by one user saying that was the case.

Absolutely degenerate

...

There are leftists who concede on all this and there's many of them.

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You have to be a very special brand of retarded to believe this