/leftybritpol/ - Tory meltdown edition

Luke Jackson
Luke Jackson

London calling to the faraway towns
Now war is declared and battle come down
London calling to the underworld
Come out of the cupboard, you boys and girls
London calling, now don't look to us
Phony Beatlemania has bitten the dust
London calling, see we ain't got no swing
Except for the ring of that truncheon thing

The ice age is coming, the sun is zooming in
Meltdown expected, the wheat is growin' thin
Engines stop running, but I have no fear
'Cause London is drowning, and I, I live by the river

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Other urls found in this thread:

twitter.com/Survation/status/1122158151623675905
twitter.com/HeydonProwse/status/1122162559686270976
twitter.com/TheSDPUK
englishlabournetwork.org.uk/briefings-and-key-speeches/john-denham-england-a-nation-divided-25-6-18/
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/17/high-house-prices-inequality-normans
theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/23/exotic-origins-of-roman-londoners-revealed-by-dna-analysis-of-bones
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_bag_chair
nature.com/articles/nature14230
strawpoll.me/17905330
twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1122969787108397056
twitter.com/cultofdusty1/status/1122566600681508864
youtube.com/watch?v=IAUrzee9jfc
twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1123649582964125701
twitter.com/CllrJeanieBell/status/1123917856176050177
twitter.com/woke_teen/status/1123729608367575042
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party
vapp.org.uk/manifesto
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrats_and_Veterans
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48094266
foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/09/dont-underestimate-corbyns-pet-stalinist/
twitter.com/United_PHD/status/1123997809676640256
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-Community_Labour_Alternative
eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/celtic/news/17466025.celtic-fans-chant-ira-song-about-brendan-rodgers/
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/05/remember-orwells-chilling-warning-to-boot-licking-propagandists?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/06/ubers-uk-turnover-hits-60m-despite-year-regulatory-battles/
content.tfl.gov.uk/taxi-and-phv-demographic-stats.pdf

Nathan Phillips
Nathan Phillips

there will never be a second referendum
Eurocels on suicide watch and eternally BTFO.

Lincoln Collins
Lincoln Collins

twitter.com/Survation/status/1122158151623675905

To think everyone was hyping up the decline of Tories AND Labour in the wake of the BXP.

Hate to say this but Torygraph is right, LibDems, Greens, SNP and TIG better form some electoral alliance to remain relevant.

Liam Ward
Liam Ward

Hate to say this but Torygraph is right, LibDems, Greens, SNP and TIG better form some electoral alliance to remain relevant.
Despite that being fucking stupid and literally no-one would agree to that, it's too late: the deadline for the lists was last thursday.

Cameron Russell
Cameron Russell

Then they are just gonna feed the Brexit Party more seats than ever :/

Angel Allen
Angel Allen

To think everyone was hyping up the decline of Tories AND Labour in the wake of the BXP.
Tbh.

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Justin Brown
Justin Brown

Tories, LibDems, Greens, SNP and CUKs all dying out
Labour and Nigel's new protest party are all that remains
1000 year Labour government

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Jacob Lewis
Jacob Lewis

Question: why the fuck should the SNP form an alliance with anyone? They literally have no reason.
As for the Greens, they despise the CUKs for helping austerity along, and the CUKs want to kill the Lib Dem's skin and wear it. It is wishful thinking.
BXP with leader of the opposition George Galloway
Based timeline.

Sebastian Brooks
Sebastian Brooks

It is wishful thinking.
It is the only way to remain relevant I suppose.

Levi Miller
Levi Miller

Only for the CUKs, the lib dems and Greens are doing fine on their own.

Hunter Moore
Hunter Moore

They would barely get any seats atm.

Liam Torres
Liam Torres

Not really.

Wyatt Morgan
Wyatt Morgan

The Leader of the Opposition!
<Thank you Mr Speaker, as much as I respect my longstanding and right honourable friend the Prime Minister, it baffles me that he and his government refuse to strengthen sanctions against the United States and use the Trident submarine weapons system to strike at the genocidal State of Israel despite their repeated use of chemical weapons against civilians and butchery of the Palestinian people.

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Gavin Collins
Gavin Collins

law idea: ban television companies from collaborating with parties to make empty events look well attended

Jordan Edwards
Jordan Edwards

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Nathaniel Butler
Nathaniel Butler

So I stopped following the Brexit shitshow for a few weeks and now BXP is a big thing it seems, wtf are they and how are they different from UKIP?

Alexander Diaz
Alexander Diaz

Britons voted to leave the European Union nearly 3 years ago. 3 years of lies and sabotage by the bourgeoisie.

David Price
David Price

The latest smear cycle on Corbyn is really getting on my nerves, not really because of the smear per se, but the fact that none of these people are asking themselves how is Labour still so popular after so much nonsense?

UKIP but with less far right racists I suppose

Owen Gray
Owen Gray

The Brexit Party is Nigel Farage's personal outfit to get brexit done (iirc atm he is arguing for a no deal brexit). The difference between then and UKIP is three-fold: first is that UKIP has developed into a crypto-far right party, the second is that the BXP appears to be single-issue and contains a wider range of political opinions (for example it contains a former Communist and Anne bloody Widdecomb), and finally Farage has absolute control over the party constitutionally.

Caleb Sanders
Caleb Sanders

twitter.com/HeydonProwse/status/1122162559686270976
Bent bobby gets caught.

Jaxson Myers
Jaxson Myers

if the brexit party gets seats but the SDP doesn't i will personally ensure britain is abolished and becomes the first state to full hand over all autonomy to the eu, as well as surrender all monetary policy to the euro, then have myself appointed central bank chair and run monetary policy with the specific goal of fucking this country up worse than margaret thatcher

you have been warned

Gabriel Price
Gabriel Price

Based spite

Cameron Sullivan
Cameron Sullivan

SDP is running? But why?

Caleb Flores
Caleb Flores

twitter.com/TheSDPUK
Oh yeah

Nathaniel Anderson
Nathaniel Anderson

retweeting the antisemitism smear
Never trust a social democrat…

Lucas Hill
Lucas Hill

retweeting 'love british food' multiple times
lol i love small parties

Jace Morgan
Jace Morgan

Based defender of the Marketreich.

Justin Moore
Justin Moore

So do you Brits all hate Corbyn now?

Brayden Roberts
Brayden Roberts

Social Democratic Party Retweeted

More globalist gunk.
lmao moderate wing of fascism indeed

Jason Ramirez
Jason Ramirez

Prediction: at the locals the tories get fucking decked but the biggest beneficiary will be weirdo localist and ideological parties. North East Party go!

Cameron Johnson
Cameron Johnson

Yes every singe one because that how politix work

Carter Foster
Carter Foster

if yorkshire first isn't part of the government by 2020 i will personally give london to ireland

Sebastian Morales
Sebastian Morales

Tbh Labour minority supported by SNP, North-East Party, Yorkshire Party, Plaid, SDLP, & Merbon Kernow when,

Luke Miller
Luke Miller

Meh, globalist being a right wing dogwhistle is pretty much a zoomerism. In the 90's people rioted over globalisation, nowadays the left is so brokebrained they think they EU is internationalist and leaving it is the act of insidious nazbols.

Elijah Gonzalez
Elijah Gonzalez

nah if you say 'globalist' you should be immediately viewed with suspicion until proven otherwise. if you mean globalisation, say 'globalisation' like a big brain not 'globalism' like a mong. otherwise, be judged as a mong at best and a nazi at worst.

Matthew Carter
Matthew Carter

Shut it globalist.

Ethan Ortiz
Ethan Ortiz

Alright lads, in terms of DotP - lower communism - higher communism, where does a Labour government go? At what point do Corbyn and McDonnell go out and single-handedly expropriate the expropriators? Burning questions of our movement tbh

Jason Allen
Jason Allen

i'll give you a kick in your spunk globes in a minute you globehead fuck

Chase Roberts
Chase Roberts

Labour is still the most popular party lmao.

Salty liberals and tories hate him though

Blake Murphy
Blake Murphy

alright lads who's your favourite/least hated postwar tory PM if you had to pick one?
i'm going with Supermac.

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Ian Ortiz
Ian Ortiz

Eden, for ending the British Empire.

Levi Price
Levi Price

Short of listening in on the late-night meetings between Corbyn, McDonnell and Milne we have no way knowing whether Labour Britain will be a DotP, so it has to just be a wait and see. Personally I think their approach is somewhere between 'we're just going to try and do our best one day at a time' (leaning Corbyn) and 'we're going to outsmart the porkies and preempt their every move with 50-dimensional backgammon' (leaning McDonnell).
Our main hope/best case scenario imo is setting the superstructural and economic basis for socialism in Britain. So seeing some renationalisations along a new model of workers+state management, heavy-handed encouragement of coops and socialisation of existing enterprises, purposefully setting up a political infrastructure of extra-parliamentary dual power to both set a lasting legacy that permanently transforms the relations of class and regional-central power in the country even if Labour is ousted at the next GE or to hand over power once the foundations for socialism are set. Aside from this gradual purging of the civil service of the old thatcherite types that still haunt most of the upper echelons and strategically placing new socialist think tank types that have been blossoming in the wake of Corbyn. Similarly for the BBC hopefully alongside a general media strategy to crush the murdoch press and insulate the british public from the reactionary capitalist media, relying mostly on the growth of internet and death of print media.
In brief, the primary and really sole task of a (socialist) Labour government is to acclimate the British working class to socialism so that when the time comes the parliamentary bourgeois British state can give way to a socialist Britain.
Then again we might get some nationalisations, reversed welfare cuts, some feel-good community engagement projects and little more than a post-brexit 'return to normal'. We won't really know till it starts happening which we'll be able to tell by the events starting to outpace us rapidly.

I just want to live in an optimistic 'things are going to get so much better' britain that builds socialism together, but vast international porky will probably kill us all with the market for our transgression :(

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Luke Thompson
Luke Thompson

Not gonna lie I was mostly taking the piss. It'd be great if Corbyn and McDonnell were actually crypto-Leninists getting ready to do DoTP parliamentary style, but I mean… even if they were, what then? The army wouldn't even need to think before they acted, given some of the shit I've heard soldiers I've spoken to come out with and the shit in the news, and I can hardly see Corbyn going full "we saw what happened to Allende, worker's militias now". Like don't get me wrong I know Corbyn has the "establishment" (using that word makes me feel Alex-Jones-tier, idk why) shit up hence the constant smears, but I just can't get too optimistic for reasons I can't fully express.

Christian Price
Christian Price

tbh I'm jealous as fuck of the U.K's history of large scale industrial unionism

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Isaac Morgan
Isaac Morgan

Enoch Powell. He was right about blacks.

Caleb Peterson
Caleb Peterson

1) he wasn't PM
2) BE GONE GAMMON

Ryder Gray
Ryder Gray

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Caleb Anderson
Caleb Anderson

UK military is a fucking mess and absolutely tiny, even if you were to round up the entire combat ready force they wouldn't be able to coup. And this is without mentioning UK isn't as classcucked as the US on that front. Look at all the recruitment scandals over the past few years and how badly it's been mismanaged.

Oliver Wood
Oliver Wood

They should rename Pyrrhic Victory to Cameron Victory at this point.

Jordan Mitchell
Jordan Mitchell

On this note, one of the reasons they are doing so shit is that they hired *drumroll* Capita to do the recruitment. One of my mates was applying to join the army and Capita lost his medical records when he had to register an injury. By the time he had recovered he said "fuck it" and got an apprenticeship.

No-wonder the army, which aims for 120k people, only has about 75k atm.

Jayden Taylor
Jayden Taylor

Either your mate is very popular or this is a highly recurring theme among army recruitment haha, heard it quite a lot.

Jace Cooper
Jace Cooper

Tfw the British army was rekt by fucking neoliberal outsourcing. Maybe Hitchens was right and Blair was a Eurocommunist spy attempting to bring down the British establishment.

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Luis Thomas
Luis Thomas

Capitards for the gulag when?

Chase Jenkins
Chase Jenkins

Capita shall be awarded Hero of Socialist Labour awards for their role in breaking the fucking Public-Private-Partnership system.

Michael Bell
Michael Bell

It seems like everyone involved in the PPP system would get that award at this point.

The vanguard has been outsourced to Serco.

Xavier Hernandez
Xavier Hernandez

Post Socialist British flags

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Henry Nguyen
Henry Nguyen

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Nathaniel Jones
Nathaniel Jones

I feel like something that isn't capitalised on much in the torch designs is cutting off the bottom of the torch and just having the head and the fire.

Zachary Williams
Zachary Williams

UK isn't as classcucked as the US on that front
Literally every soldier I know is "FUCK Corbyn the commie spy"-tier though.
I got deferred for bad eyesight after selection and they never got back to me, which suits me fine because I realised joining the army to drive tanks around Germany for a few years was a fucking terrible idea in the mean time and went back to college. Thank fuck for a childhood spent staring at screens tbh.

William Reyes
William Reyes

Literally every soldier I know is "FUCK Corbyn the commie spy"-tier though.
The military doesn't have enough manpower to impose their will on the whole of the UK. If Corbyn was deposed they'd have to use violence to keep hold of their position, which would put The Establishment in a far, far worse position than when The Troubles began. It would be a bloodbath. It would probably slip into civil war territory officially, which is something the IRA was never given to avoid giving them legitimacy.

Angel Rogers
Angel Rogers

Merbon Kernow
National Pasty Service

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Ryder Barnes
Ryder Barnes

Oh when is the council elections?

Elijah Myers
Elijah Myers

Thursday 2nd May

Jack Cruz
Jack Cruz

Fuck me that is a rare pepe.

Ian Garcia
Ian Garcia

The military doesn't have enough manpower to impose their will on the whole of the UK.

You are clueless, a single division-sized force could take over the U.K. in a couple of days if the planning was adequate. This isn't Turkey where people will actually come out onto the streets and fight the tanks/soldiers. Most "leftists" here are liberal pussies who will scatter at the first whiff of grapeshot.

Christian Wright
Christian Wright

You are clueless, a single division-sized force could take over the U.K. in a couple of days if the planning was adequate.
t. someone who has never seen a military coup in their life.
Most "leftists" here are liberal pussies who will scatter at the first whiff of grapeshot.
Fuck off pol, pic related.

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John Adams
John Adams

Even if Corbyn takes power, you won't see major domestic policy shifts. If Podemos and Syriza have taught us anything, it's that these rebranded "we're to the left of the SocDems" leftists ultimately align with liberal internationalism above economic socialism. Tsipras is currently the darling of the EU for example since he's giving "refugees" citizenship by the tens of thousands (this is a self-serving move in part too, to secure future voters), went against the vast majority of his country to sign on the Macedonia naming dispute and so on.

Corbyn won't be any different.

Nicholas Evans
Nicholas Evans

t. someone who has never seen a military coup in their life.

I live next to a country that constantly has them, and my country had one in 67. You don't actually need hundreds of thousands of men for a military coup.

Fuck off pol, pic related.
Gay 1960s degenerate drug addled "protesters"

Were you attempting to make a point?

Jace Collins
Jace Collins

But the thing is like unlike Podemos and Syriza, Corbyn and McDonnell actually have policies to retake the economy under worker's ownership and save unions

Levi Edwards
Levi Edwards

I live next to a country that constantly has them, and my country had one in 67. You don't actually need hundreds of thousands of men for a military coup.
What you do need is the ability to administrate a country: something the army could not do if they wanted to. Why? Because there is no centre of power in Britain. London alone has 8m people, you'd need the whole army just to sort that out, let alone Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Cardiff, and fuck don't even get me started on Northern Ireland. You know a part of the reason the coup failed in Turkey? Because the army only had real control of Istanbul and not Ankara. Now imagine that, but with 10 major cities, all of them with big histories of resistance and mass mobilisation. Then add the fact that two of them are centre of open separatism with a devolved legislature in one that would not support a military government in London. Then add to that the fact this will be the first time there has been a military coup in britain for 300 years.
<Gay 1960s degenerate drug addled "protesters"
Are you dense? That's from Orgreave you fucking mong.

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Easton Gutierrez
Easton Gutierrez

Syriza claimed the exact same thing mate. So did Podemos. The left is ruined in Greece now, it will never recover for decades, only immigrants and old people vote for them.

London alone has 8m people

Most of the people there aren't even English and have very little emotional attachment to the country as an entity to begin with. Do you think there's going to be some mass mobilization of Bangladeshis against the new military state?

Study previously successful military coups.

all of them with big histories of resistance and mass mobilisation.

You grossly overestimate how many people are going to take to the streets. Young Europeans in 2019 are actually more amenable to a military coup and less attached to democracy as a principle than young people were 30 years ago.

And this makes sense. Liberal democracy has been a disaster.

David Nelson
David Nelson

Idk much about Syriza but Podemos hasn't even gone to power and are just a left-populist party

Aaron Perez
Aaron Perez

Podemos, like Syriza, were essentially a rebrand of previous SocDem arrangements, albeit with more populist rhetoric.

Jaxson Perez
Jaxson Perez

Most of the people there aren't even English
t. full-time /pol/ infograph student

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Matthew Taylor
Matthew Taylor

Yes and my point is that Corbyn's Labour has DemSoc policies planned out. Do you even read up on what McDonnell is up to?

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Kayden Reyes
Kayden Reyes

I can see your concern, but the issue with Syriza is that Greece was a subject country and could do little to break from it's position. Ironically, because of the UK's lesser imperial power status it can do so with far greater ease.
Also the Macedonia naming dispute is perfectly within the name of internationalism.
Most of the people there aren't even English
Yeah you're a braindead polyp if I've ever seen one.
Do you think there's going to be some mass mobilization of Bangladeshis against the new military state?
Actually unironically yes, especially since they have been agents of mass mobilisation in the past.
Also what part of "historically marginalised groups" makes you think they would go along with a right-wing junta? Like do you think the afro-caribbean population of London; which had to deal with shit like Stephen Lawrence, is gonna just lie-down? Are you kidding?
Young Europeans in 2019 are actually more amenable to a military coup and less attached to democracy as a principle than young people were 30 years ago.
While statistically this is true, that doesn't actually mean they'd accept military rule: mostly since the british army is so out-of-touch with the general populace.

Caleb Cox
Caleb Cox

Just another example of European "right wingers" being US cuckolds.
Imagine actually defending a US backed coup in your OWN country to trigger the commies.

Can any user hit me up with the video of that Greek antifascist shooting three Golden Dawn faggots in front of one of their offices?

Jaxson Kelly
Jaxson Kelly

tbf i'd make a distinction between british and english
granted pinning down that distinction would be difficult. i mean, it's easy to express the generally held feeling that you have to be white to be english, but i'd say it's more nuanced than that. plenty of white londoners instinctively call themselves british first, on instinct, rather than english.

Ethan Walker
Ethan Walker

Young Europeans in 2019 are actually more amenable to a military coup and less attached to democracy as a principle than young people were 30 years ago.
lol, polls show they're disaffected with liberal democracy and are claiming support for revolution, only in your fever dreams does this mean they'd be at all inclined towards a military coup.

Joseph Scott
Joseph Scott

Sure you can make that distinction, but short of claiming that London is greatly infused with Scots or Sheepshaggers, its a distinction without a difference, unless the real claim behind 'Most Londoners aren't english' is 'only whites resist military coups'

Mason Ramirez
Mason Ramirez

Nationality is ethnicity
"Mo Farah is just as English as someone whose ancestors have been here for 20 generations!"

lol. Only a Western European would be this stupid.

And Tsipras promised mass nationalization too. See how that worked out?

Robert Jackson
Robert Jackson

Also a lot of the afro-caribbean populace lean towards being English as opposed to being British (perhaps because Britishness is associated with colonial rule).

Leo Sanders
Leo Sanders

"Mo Farah is just as English as someone whose ancestors have been here for 20 generations!"
lol. Only a Western European would be this stupid.
<Muh blood and soil
Yeah this is Britain lad, that shit doesn't fly here.

Jonathan Smith
Jonathan Smith

you're not really english unless your bloodline has lived on these isles since before the norman conquest
I agree, the Norman ruling class must be exterminated and the commons restored to true anglo-saxon folk

Jason Walker
Jason Walker

Tbh Scots and Gaels are occupying Pictish land. #decolonise

Bentley Lee
Bentley Lee

englishlabournetwork.org.uk/briefings-and-key-speeches/john-denham-england-a-nation-divided-25-6-18/
Also some good shit here on English identity.

Adam Morris
Adam Morris

See how that worked out?
implying McDonnell is asking for just mass nationalization
Well it is lucky that when Labour comes into power, UK won't be under EU then :^)

Tyler Foster
Tyler Foster

anglo-saxon
Yeah can these foreign invaders also leave and go back to Germany or whatever other shithole they came from?

Wyatt Evans
Wyatt Evans

The Welsh and Cornish need to repopulate Britain tbf

Cameron Cruz
Cameron Cruz

13%
Holy shit…

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Jeremiah Young
Jeremiah Young

So what is your determinant for someone's identity if Mo Farah is just as English as those people? Is it based on a travel document handed out by the Home Office? If that's the case, aren't the people from this country who fought for IS in Syria and Iraq just as English as some east end cockney?

If "Yes". Answer this:

1. Does the term "English" even have a point other than a titular legal definition?
2. Is your definition of identity - i.e. based on travel documents - a universalist thing. In other words, does it also apply to identities like Japanese and Chinese?

Jeremiah Watson
Jeremiah Watson

Labour needs to do better for the optimal result. The ideal situation is Labour doing better or as well as Brexit party with everyone else left behind. And any result that dips below the previous result will be seen and attacked as a weakness.

Thomas Brooks
Thomas Brooks

Unironically deport the normans and restore native Britons to power tbh
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/17/high-house-prices-inequality-normans

Commonwealth and non-norman European immigrants can (nay MUST) be allowed to stay but the Descendants of the normans maintain the norman yoke over the people of these isles, a lingering genetic yoke if you will MUST go in order to build socialism. Marx was right that Capitalism will end where the normans began it, in England, because England will be the first country to see off the norman menace.

every conspiracy theory about every group is true, but incorrectly assigned to groups other than the normans. the normans are one half of the dialectic engine of history, standing in opposition to all honest men.

The jury is still out on whether the Saxons are acceptable or not. My working hypothesis is that regardless, Jeremy Corbyn is King Arthur The King Reborn and it will be His Decision To Make.

Harry Perkins : Do I frighten you all that much? Me? Harry Perkins? A steelworker from Sheffield?

Browne (a norman): Yes. You do. You're a bad dream. I could always comfort myself with the thought that socialism would never work. It's always been in the hands of bungling incompetents, trimmers, compromisers.

Harry Perkins : Someone you could control from within.

Browne : But you, Mr. Perkins, could destroy everything I've ever believed in.

Harry Perkins : And your father before you. And his father before him.

Browne : Yea, even unto the Middle Ages.

Browne : You show alarming signs of turning into a major statesman.

Harry Perkins : And you can't allow that. You and your ancestors.

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Jaxson Harris
Jaxson Harris

The Guardian

lol

Bentley Long
Bentley Long

I didn't say shit about travel documents. Identity, at the end of the day, is a fucking spook. So treat it like a spook. I know plenty of immigrants who do not feel british or english or whatever (mostly students): and I know way more that do. People who identify as British and act British are British, same with Englishness. Mo Farah speaks like a Londoner, he acts like one, and he has represented this country at the highest level. If you heard him speak without seeing him you'd think he was white tbh.
1. Does the term "English" even have a point other than a titular legal definition?
Well it doesn't have a titular legal definition, so obviously yes. I don't consider myself English, because I am half Scottish. I fall firmly into the conceptualisation of British, but my Scottish heritage gives me a unique look at Englishness since I was always slightly outside of it. So yes, it exists as a spook: one that is not affirmed by a document or a genetic test.
2. Is your definition of identity - i.e. based on travel documents - a universalist thing. In other words, does it also apply to identities like Japanese and Chinese?
Yes, considering loads of ethnic minorities like Manchurians identify as Chinese, along with mixed-raced Japanese people abroad & people like long-term (talking pre-10s) Koreans doing so while in Japan. But that is besides the point, British and English identity is not an ethnic one, it cannot be: you know why? Look at the map in pic related. That is an ethnic map of the UK by populations who have lived in the same area for more than 5 generations. Notice how somewhere like Orkney has FOUR DISTINCT ETHNIC GROUPS. But anyone from Orkney would say they're Orcadian.
Also to be frank, Mo Farah is actually a second generation immigrant, considering his father spent most of his life here, moved-back to Somalia then it got utterly fucked-up.
2877502
However such weakness will likely lead to a hardening towards leave, which is good. I agree though, BXP and Labour should come equal in terms of votes. Interesting thing is that the projections show even with the same number of votes "who wins" in terms of seats switches. Honestly it may all be down to luck at this point. We'll see.

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Connor Butler
Connor Butler

What then of the east end cockney, who you consider to be a born and bred englishman, who fought for IS in Syria and Iraq? After all, there are white jihadists, young, isolated men, with no family, cultural, national or ethnic background to a majority muslim country, who convert in search of some meaning, radicalise and go off to fight for IS. Now are they English? If they are then englishness appears to be a purely ethnic category, if they are not, then does this mean they never were? That they were but then ceased to be english making englishness a sort of cultural-ideological category from which you can be excommunicated or apostatise from by virtue of no longer behaving within the parameters of 'what english people do or are like' (and also does this then mean one can in fact become english by adhering to these standards?)

Colton Hall
Colton Hall

Yes, considering loads of ethnic minorities like Manchurians identify as Chinese, along with mixed-raced Japanese people abroad & people like long-term (talking pre-10s) Koreans doing so while in Japan.

I see. I think it's important to distinguish here between the 中华民族 & 汉人, the former are a civic identity of sorts, the latter a racial one. It's also important to note that people like Machurians and Zhuang are people with some proximity to the founding race (Han) in genetic terms. And the further away you get from that proximity, the less likely the people are to define themselves as part of the Zhonghua Minzu (e.g. Uighurs) or even be considered as such by others.

Look at the map in pic related. That is an ethnic map of the UK by populations who have lived in the same area for more than 5 generations. Notice how somewhere like Orkney has FOUR DISTINCT ETHNIC GROUPS. But anyone from Orkney would say they're Orcadian.

Right, but these identities are still based around extended kinship relations, not travel documents/civic ideas of belonging.

identify as British and act British are British, same with Englishness.

Can you expand a little more on this. What would you define as identify and acting as British/English?

Mo Farah speaks like a Londoner, he acts like one, and he has represented this country at the highest level.

Are these the necessary conditions required? By those standards, wouldn't most pre-modern English people not be considered English?

Wyatt Sullivan
Wyatt Sullivan

What then of the east end cockney, who you consider to be a born and bred englishman, who fought for IS in Syria and Iraq?

There is actually a Greek guy (John Georgelas) who fought for IS in Iraq and Syria. I still consider him a Greek, albeit a fallen, treacherous one. I don't consider any Pakistani or African with Greek citizenship a Greek though. Identity for me is based on kinship relations, i.e. blood. Anything else is a spook liable to subversion ("who are you to say that these 50,000,000 Chinese people aren't just as X as you?!")

Jack Torres
Jack Torres

i'm kept up at night by the idea that having already grown to adulthood, the ship may have sailed on naturalising in canada, australia or suchlike. the legal barriers are high, but i suspect the social barriers make those look trivial.
to be an 'expat' after decades would be a fate worse than death.

Evan Hernandez
Evan Hernandez

I see. I think it's important to distinguish here between the 中华民族 & 汉人, the former are a civic identity of sorts, the latter a racial one. It's also important to note that people like Machurians and Zhuang are people with some proximity to the founding race (Han) in genetic terms. And the further away you get from that proximity, the less likely the people are to define themselves as part of the Zhonghua Minzu (e.g. Uighurs) or even be considered as such by others.
Oh believe me mate I understand the difference between that, I study russian and there is a similar difference between someone who is Русский and a Россиянин: the former denotes an Ethnic Russian wheather in or outside of Russia, the latter denotes a Russian national of any race. The former is tied-up more with Christian and ethnic conceptualisations of Russianness (think Donbass) while the latter is civic (think someone like Lavr Kornilov, who was a whole host of things: none of them ethnic Russian, but literally nobody would call him anything but a Russian). The important thing, however, is that such a conceptualisation does not exist in Britain. This is likely due to the fact that we are, to quote an auld wifie friend of the family "mongrels anyways". This is especially acute in Scotland where Scottish civic identity not only comprises different ethnicities, but three distinct cultural groups (Sassanach/Inglin, Scots, and Gaelic traditions separately). Britain is a fusion of traditions, cultures, languages, and ethnicities. This is why fascism never took-off here, because ethnonationalism makes no sense in our context. As such Mo Farah is British, is he English? I dunno, ask the bloke: but only weirdos wouldn't say Loftus-Cheek wasn't English. You are thinking with a European familiar and ethnic mindset that doesn't work when it comes to the British isles (which btw, Ireland is no exception: most of the gael LARPers there are actually descended from Normans).
Right, but these identities are still based around extended kinship relations, not travel documents/civic ideas of belonging.
Except the way identity works in these communities often tends to be civic purely because they operate on quasi-clan systems due to familial ties.
Can you expand a little more on this. What would you define as identify and acting as British/English?
Shouting "WHAAEEYYY" when someone drops their pint glass.
Are these the necessary conditions required? By those standards, wouldn't most pre-modern English people not be considered English?
Well yes, I don't think if anyone transported an anglo-Saxon to today and let them live in Shropshire would think they were English off-the-bat. I mean they don't even know the words to Three Lions.

Jaxson Reed
Jaxson Reed

I know it's hard for the Aussies and Kiwis, but I thought Canada was still pretty integrationist?

Kayden Ross
Kayden Ross

to quote an auld wifie friend of the family "mongrels anyways".

I see. I'm not British but this tends to be a way of justifying mass immigration from the third world in my opinion.

"Historical invasions caused some impact on our genome, therefore lets all become brown"

It's a little bizarre to me, but then again Anglos in general seem to be ok with minoritizing themselves everywhere. I just wish they wouldn't force it on the rest of us through liberal internationalism/embedded liberalism.

because they operate on quasi-clan systems due to familial ties.

You just contradicted yourself here. All ethnicity and race really are are extended family. Which is why individual families were always considered the building blocks of a society.

Shouting "WHAAEEYYY" when someone drops their pint glass.

Right.

I mean they don't even know the words to Three Lions.

I think it's actually very sad the only thing that brings this phantasmic conception of Englishness you have together is watching millionaire footballers kick a ball around a pitch. In a place like Japan, their sense of group identity is strong enough that it's always present in just about everything they do. Your group identity by contrast is very weak. Weak group identities are ripe for subversion.

Jayden Garcia
Jayden Garcia

You are thinking with a European familiar and ethnic mindset that doesn't work when it comes to the British isles

Just a quick note on this one. Do you think the majority of indigenous English people are supportive of the levels of immigration that have occurred over the past 30+ years?

Jonathan Howard
Jonathan Howard

Make Britain S.P.Q.R. again!
I remember English /pol/troons losing their minds when this story came out a few years ago.
theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/23/exotic-origins-of-roman-londoners-revealed-by-dna-analysis-of-bones

Ethan Johnson
Ethan Johnson

Because it's an attempt to make Roman Britain seem more diverse than it actually was. Those people were the exception, not the rule. Antique civilizations, where 90%+ of the population were subsistence farmers and the majority of the rest engaged in sedentary trades were not "diverse" by modern standards.

Kevin Clark
Kevin Clark

Christ lads can we stop talking about ethnicity in the fucking brit thread. Let the basement /pol/yp die they've never understood race in England and act like a burger.
Weak group identities are ripe for subversion.
Spooky. Once they replace all the spoons with nandos we will truly have been fully subverted. The spicy Black culture can't be stopped.

Luke Robinson
Luke Robinson

Let the basement /pol/yp die they've never understood race in England and act like a burger.

Ten replies later, you still haven't been able to define Englishness.

Nicholas Butler
Nicholas Butler

Because it's an attempt to make
this is purely your inference, have you considered that its just that the exceptions are the fascinating and insightful things and thus capture attention and imagination? No one is claiming 40% of roman britons were intersex eastern europeans, however the knowledge that intersex eastern europeans lived in roman britain is fascinating and serves to dispel the common preconceptions about the interconnectedness of the world during antiquity.

Jeremiah Lee
Jeremiah Lee

this is purely your inference

I'm sure if right-of-center papers started publishing evidence of markets archaeologically from pre-Roman times as "proof we've always been capitalist" you'd treat it in a similarly level-headed way.

Thomas Rivera
Thomas Rivera

I'd like to see you define what a chair is and we can see how valid that definition is going to be

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Adam Martin
Adam Martin

Not that user, and I dont give a shit. You're the only one who cares.
Im as english as I am Irish and I cant define Irish either.

Ayden Hernandez
Ayden Hernandez

a separate seat for one person, typically with a back and four legs.

See how easy that was?

Evan Lee
Evan Lee

So what exactly is the article about the remote origins of some roman britons attempting to prove?
And how is the existence of markets not true and publicised? And what does that have to do with 'always having been capitalist'? What does that even mean? Capitalist relations of production have existed for millennia, no one disputes this lol

Carson Taylor
Carson Taylor

typically
So there are chairs that do not share these features yet are nonetheless chairs?

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Ayden Hall
Ayden Hall

Oops lmao

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Noah Davis
Noah Davis

So what exactly is the article about the remote origins of some roman britons attempting to prove?

Ask liberals.

So there are chairs that do not share these features yet are nonetheless chairs?

All chairs are seats for people with a back. The number of legs is *generally* four, but not always, for those with three without a back, we have the word "stall".

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Dylan Morgan
Dylan Morgan

Ask liberals.
No argument, gotcha.

Bentley Lewis
Bentley Lewis

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Christopher Brown
Christopher Brown

"Englishness"
Noun
"The quality of being annoying to Scots or of having characteristics regarded as typically irritating to Scottish people."

Aiden Rivera
Aiden Rivera

No argument

So the dozens of op-eds about Britain "always being diverse" referencing those finds don't mean anything to you? You don't consider that pushing a political narrative?

That's a toilet, not a chair.

Levi Hernandez
Levi Hernandez

Just a quick note on this one. Do you think the majority of indigenous English people are supportive of the levels of immigration that have occurred over the past 30+ years?
I dunno, I don't have any data. counterpoint, do you think the indigenous English people of the 1860s were supportives of the levels of immigration [from Ireland] that occured over the previous 30 years?

Brandon Clark
Brandon Clark

That's a toilet, not a chair.
It is a seat with a back is it not? Surely that makes it a chair :^)

Ryan Anderson
Ryan Anderson

Antique civilizations, where 90%+ of the population were subsistence farmers and the majority of the rest engaged in sedentary trades were not "diverse" by modern standards.
This is bollocks considering the significant degree of Roman migration to Britain (or do you think the Colonia were occupied by the local Britons that also burnt them down?).

Carson Smith
Carson Smith

you still haven't been able to define Englishness.
Were we even trying to?

Gabriel Rivera
Gabriel Rivera

do you think the indigenous English people of the 1860s were supportives of the levels of immigration [from Ireland] that occured over the previous 30 years?

Nope. A good portion of die-hard Labour voting morons are paddies, so it seems they were absolutely right.

its a seat

To shit in.

with a back

That's called a cistern brainlet. I know you didn't take a useful degree or have any useful trade knowledge but jfc.

Yes. Refer to my earlier posts. You initially claimed Mo Farah was just as English as anyone else as he speaks in a London accent and sounds white.

Chase Allen
Chase Allen

The real redpill is that not only are words and definitions bullshit, speech is complete bullshit.
The actual sounds don't even have correlations with letters. Even in languages less stupidly written than English still basically have the relative difference between sounds make the words, rather than the sounds themselves. Hence, accents.

When you look too closely reality breaks down. So cut that out and post more based bevanite memes

markets
Markets aren't capitalism, you mong. There were markets under feudalism. There are slave markets in slave societies.
Capitalism is defined by capital, a system defined around markets would be Marketism.

Chase Powell
Chase Powell

Throwing your pint glass you just spent £4 on and 30 minutes waiting for when England score in the first 7 minutes against Croatia. That is Englishness.

Joshua Collins
Joshua Collins

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_bag_chair

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Lucas Martin
Lucas Martin

All chairs are seats for people with a back
What about stairs, there are seats for people with a back too

Gavin Gutierrez
Gavin Gutierrez

So does that mean that a chair is then in fact a seat one does not shit in with a back that does not hold water?

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Zachary Clark
Zachary Clark

You initially claimed Mo Farah was just as English as anyone else as he speaks in a London accent and sounds white
That doesn't mean that we are trying to define English, only mentioning Mo Farah could be it.

Chase Sanchez
Chase Sanchez

This is bollocks considering the significant degree of Roman migration to Britain

The maximum number of Roman troops in Britain were four legions (around 30k), the Governor and his staff were fairly tiny in the Principate, and a professional bureaucracy only really developed under Diocletian. So we're talking tens of thousands out of a population of a couple of million.

Capitalism is defined by capital, a system defined around markets would be Marketism.

Capital still existed in antique societies. The Romans had futures markets on grain, stocks in privately owned companies and capital investment from profit was certainly a thing.

Although designed to be a chair, due to its amorphous nature it is often confused with tuffets and ottomans.

What is the purpose of a chair?

What is the purpose of a toilet?

If you can establish Mo Farah "could be English" then you surely have some speculative idea about what Englishness is.

Stairs
Seats for people

How poor are you?

Asher Watson
Asher Watson

Englishness is enjoying Greggs, simple as. Anyone who enjoys Greggs is English, anyone who goes to Pret is a Southern poofta.

Logan Jenkins
Logan Jenkins

How poor are you?
That is not an argument. Are. Stairs. Chairs?

If you can establish Mo Farah "could be English" then you surely have some speculative idea about what Englishness is.
But that still doesn't mean we were going to define what Englishness means though.

Joseph Edwards
Joseph Edwards

Jesus christ, why is there a literal /pol/redditor in my comfy /leftybritpol/ thread?

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Asher Ward
Asher Ward

That is not an argument. Are. Stairs. Chairs?
No. The two things have very distinct purposes.

But that still doesn't mean we were going to define
of course not, because you have no workable definition. Feelz > Realz.

Noah Peterson
Noah Peterson

/pol/redditor

Not as if 75% of your userbase come from r/CTH or anything.

Christian Hall
Christian Hall

The two things have very distinct purposes.
What if I install stairs to the ceiling purely for the purpose of sitting on them? Is that now a chair?

Jaxon Johnson
Jaxon Johnson

So chairs are actually defined not by their characteristics but by their purpose? If that is the case then why did you define them as 'a separate seat for one person, typically with a back and four legs' previously?

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Ryder Rivera
Ryder Rivera

A bean bag chair is a large fabric bag, filled with polystyrene beads (Sacco chair),[2] dried beans, or a similar substance.[3] ==The product is an example of an anatomic chair.[1]== The shape of the object is set by the user. Although designed to be a chair, due to its amorphous nature it is often confused with tuffets and ottomans.
Skipped right past the first sentence, ofc, stay mad /pol/troon…

Nathaniel Thompson
Nathaniel Thompson

No. The two things have very distinct purposes.
But that is irrelevant to your original definition to "All chairs are seats for people with a back.The number of legs is *generally* four, but not always, for those with three without a back, we have the word "stall".

of course not, because you have no workable definition. Feelz > Realz
The point is no one has a workable definition. For fuck sake you can't even a basic workable definition for a motherfucking chair. A simple material object, how can you even have one for an abstract concept.

Connor Taylor
Connor Taylor

1. Stop redditspacing you insufferable cunt.
2. Stop projecting redditor

Ayden Hill
Ayden Hill

CTH
Chapofags are mocked endlessly here and cth didn't even have political "relevance" until 2017 or 2018 at best. This board existed more than a few years before then.

Hunter Powell
Hunter Powell

Then you would have a stair on your ceiling.

So chairs are actually defined not by their characteristics but by their purpose?

If that is the case then why did you define them as 'a separate seat for one person, typically with a back and four legs'

First part: Purpose.
Second part: Characteristic traits.

Elijah Reyes
Elijah Reyes

Nope. A good portion of die-hard Labour voting morons are paddies, so it seems they were absolutely right.
Lamo, imagine this level of salt. What do you have someone with the surname
The maximum number of Roman troops in Britain were four legions (around 30k), the Governor and his staff were fairly tiny in the Principate, and a professional bureaucracy only really developed under Diocletian. So we're talking tens of thousands out of a population of a couple of million.
That didn't include the coloniae in Britain, which would evolve into the largest towns on the isles. Along with that, there were loads of slaves to serve the Roman Imperial administration that would have come from all over. Obviously this would have impacted the cities and towns more than the countryside: god why does that sound familiar?..
Honestly I grew-up in a Southern town and to this day it is a badge of pride that we have a greggs but not a pret.

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Levi Torres
Levi Torres

muh r/CTH
Aren't you that idiot in that new shooter thread that can't understand necessity and sufficiency?

Brody Garcia
Brody Garcia

Also lamo at someone not being able to define Englishness when it is still in formation (Englishlishness as a national identity as a wholesale thing mostly comes from the 1980s and the breakdown of British Unionism).

Jackson Richardson
Jackson Richardson

So you admit that your original definition was insufficient? Care to redefine it then?

Carter Cruz
Carter Cruz

First part: Purpose
How so? Is your definition of a chair prescriptive then? If not then how are you inferring purpose as something definitive?

Hudson Rivera
Hudson Rivera

Lamo, imagine this level of salt. What do you have someone with the surname

I'm not British, but yes, letting the Irish in was a mistake.

That didn't include the coloniae in Britain

You're aware that colonia weren't exclusively colonies of Italian citizens right? It was just a legal designation for a high-status city. The Senate passed all sorts of SCs elevating various cities to the status of colonia. In the case of Roman Britain the formation of urban agglomerations was done from the top down by the first few governors to provide some semblance of local government. These settlements were overwhelmingly of native stock.

Again: Civilizations where the bulk of the population were subsistence agriculturalists were not playing host to millions of "economic migrants".

Finally, and most importantly, if mass immigration of demographic significance were a thing in Roman Britain, why does the contemporary genome of the British Isles not reflect this genetic imprint?

nature.com/articles/nature14230

Kevin Scott
Kevin Scott

What's worse: a burger ranting about about british politics and how everyone is like Sanders or Clinton, or a european ethnonat not understanding that british conceptualisations of national identity don't rely on Blood and Soil?

Aaron Bennett
Aaron Bennett

I'm not British, but yes, letting the Irish in was a mistake.
Why? I won't argue it was some amazing positive but it doesn't lead to a "catholic replacement" like the locals thought it would. Honestly you lot are playing out arguments we had 200 years ago.

Charles Campbell
Charles Campbell

Which one can't define what a fucking chair is?

Jason Nelson
Jason Nelson

Civilizations where the bulk of the population were subsistence agriculturalists were not playing host to millions of "economic migrants".
No one has claimed this.
mass immigration of demographic significance were a thing in Roman Britain
no one has claimed this
please go be outraged about things that you imagine your ideological enemies are thinking or saying somewhere else

Dominic White
Dominic White

I'm not the chair user, user…

Chase Morgan
Chase Morgan

I know. I am mocking the chair user regardless.

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Jordan Jones
Jordan Jones

no one has claimed this
So there was no mass immigration into Roman Britain and the archaeological remains cited are the exception rather than the rule. Good, we're agreed.

Christopher Powell
Christopher Powell

And no one has claimed otherwise, yet you felt compelled to respond to someone posting an article which didn't claim that, accusing it of 'attempting' something of the sort, entirely by your baseless inference. Strange how you did that, eh? Almost telling of a certain agenda being pushed by yourself and a degree of paranoid projection to boot.

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Asher Thompson
Asher Thompson

Ohh god the gammons are ranting about Mary Baird again.

Ethan Jones
Ethan Jones

As a humanist, I always center human intent and action in all my thoughts, hence human intent and action is also the core of how I define things, not dumb dead geometry.

If we call the set of chair-like objects those objects that are chair-like enough for that, which surely includes proper chairs if those exist as well as objects fitting a more loose definition, and we have established that toilets aren't proper chairs and toilets are only chair-like objects where people shit, we have to ask whether there is a chair that a baby wouldn't shit on.

The answer to the riddle is to construct a chair so big that no baby could possibly crawl on it. Given that babies often get help from adults, we also have to make the chair big enough so that no adult could s(h)it on it or put a baby there. We also have to make the chair big enough to not be threatened to lose the right to its definition by the baby landing on it after a throw. Finally, we have to consider that the baby could be dropped from a plane. To protect the chair from that, we heat up the chair to such a high degree that any baby or adult evaporates before coming into contact with its surface.

Dominic Howard
Dominic Howard

10/10

Grayson Morgan
Grayson Morgan

Okay Protagoras

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Luke Hall
Luke Hall

Literally every soldier I know is "FUCK Corbyn the commie spy"-tier though.
Still not as bad as the US though. There are a lot of these types esp since more UK Recruits do join out of an ideological commitment but in order for them to Coup they'd need to have a reason, i.e Labour doesn't Capitulate and starts enacting radical programs, the results of which would sway a lot of people despite the constant bombardment of propaganda. Most working class squaddies won't ignore that (And whilst the other classes are overrepresented in the Military they're still a minority), and they're definitely not prepared to mow down Civilians in the streets, which like the other lad said, is the only outcome of a Military style coup.

John Myers
John Myers

a single division-sized force could take over the U.K. in a couple of days if the planning was adequate.
Most "leftists" here are liberal pussies who will scatter at the first whiff of grapeshot.
Oh I see you're retarded lmao.

Levi Hall
Levi Hall

honestly think the worst thing about centrist dads is their insistence that young non-blairites don't understand the context blair worked in
the context blair worked in can only be seen to make blairism less logical, less tolerable, more vapid and empty than it seems taken on a historical gloss as a simple tilt rightwards. at the time the alternatives were at least visible, rather than being memory holed as they are today.

Owen Powell
Owen Powell

tbh If you like to drink cans in the park on a summers day thats English enough for me.

Angel Sullivan
Angel Sullivan

Mo Farah isn't English you retards.

Joshua Sullivan
Joshua Sullivan

I have a Eastern Euro ex: she found the fact we go outside whenever it gets sunny and drinking in the park weird. Even the gopniki didn't do that back home (and she'd lived in Russia & Serbia). Standard british practise is more gopnik than the gopniks.

Michael Collins
Michael Collins

Beside being the butt of jokes I still have no idea what Chapo Trap House means.

Isaiah Hill
Isaiah Hill

How is that ideal? Most people here don't want to remain in the EU, the elections are a waste of money if we actually intend on leaving. It's being treated as a second referendum by libs until they don't get the result they want and we need a result that steers Labour away from FBPE types.
I don't know but I would prefer if he left.
A podcast with a subreddit of radlib faggots.

Jacob Rogers
Jacob Rogers

Wait since when was Limmy a resident of Belfast?
Also Limmy is a trot, heh.

Leo Scott
Leo Scott

lol

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Nathan Reed
Nathan Reed

Tbh if the brexit party win and labour supports a second ref, it might just kill it.

Kayden Wood
Kayden Wood

Second Referendum results if only Zig Forums voted
strawpoll.me/17905330

Nathan Cook
Nathan Cook

It seems with the Unions and Momentum against the push for second ref its probably not going to be added to the European election manifestos, I kind of hope Labour and Torys come to some sort of compromise since its in their best interests to not have to fight the elections.

Michael Scott
Michael Scott

I'd like to remind you that UK went from an empire to having Sargon as a UKIP candidate in less that 100 years.

Luke Jones
Luke Jones

Tbf we have had far weirder candidates for Parliament than Sargon.
Anybody remember Kilroy?

Grayson Ramirez
Grayson Ramirez

mfw UK's foreign policy has always been to divide Europe, but only to have the issue over EU is threatening to tear UK apart

mfw Sargon has been using Daily Mail article to feed his anti-SJW crowd, only to have the Daily Mail smearing him again and again

Now this is something to honk honk about.

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Josiah Reed
Josiah Reed

Who the fuck is voting for soft Brexit? It's the worst of both worlds - a form of Brexit devised by ex-Remainers as a damage-control exercise.

Nathaniel Davis
Nathaniel Davis

I mean tbh the terms hard and soft brexit don't mean anything anymore: like May's deal would have been seen as ultrahard ages ago but now it is a "sell-out".

Nicholas Bell
Nicholas Bell

May's deal includes the backstop which keeps the UK in the customs union indefinitely, so I don't think anyone could call it ultra-hard. But from a Zig Forums point of view I don't know why anyone would want any Brexit that isn't as hard as possible. I can just about see why you might prefer Remain, not least because it would be so damaging to the credibility of British politics.

Andrew Thomas
Andrew Thomas

I just thought that hard Brexit was no deal Brexit.

Soft Brexit is the only valid Remainer-choice if you actually care about democracy. [spoiler] Can also for Leavers unless you have a confirmation referendum on a Hard Brexit

Nathaniel Howard
Nathaniel Howard

I hope he wins so that he will stop making annoying youtube videos. Also it’ll open the door for leftist youtubers to run for office

Dominic Thomas
Dominic Thomas

former leader of scottish labour kezia dugdale to quit scottish parliament in summer

Grayson Roberts
Grayson Roberts

I saw someone bemoaning how a "talented woman like her" was being lost to the Labour Party fucking lol the melts have no idea do they?

Owen Rivera
Owen Rivera

twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1122969787108397056
Lol, May is facing a no confidence vote from the membership itself.

Carter Ramirez
Carter Ramirez

So are these negotiations with Labour over Brexit going to come to anything? Labour are saying progress is being made but even if it is, can we really expect the EU to go back to the drawing board and agree to a totally different deal from the one they spent 2 years working on? Also the ERG will bring the govt down if it cooks up a soft Brexit with Labour.

I just thought that hard Brexit was no deal Brexit.
It is.

Really can't see May resigning or being forced out when she and the majority of her MPs are afraid of having a Brexiter as PM. They know that if she goes we'll get someone like Boris as her replacement and then a no-deal Brexit in October/November.

Alexander Williams
Alexander Williams

The negotiations were never meant to come to anything: it was a weak attempt by May to try and mire Labour in her failure, which failed. What happens now is impossible to know: no brexit seemed likely until Farage and with his brexit party set to knock-it-out-the-park at the euros. Honestly after her collapse at the Euro elections I imagine the deal might actually pass as a load of Labour backbenchers get skitty. Once the deal is passed, everything is up-for-grabs. Honestly I expect Corbyn might resign this summer, with that there may be an energy that could be recaptured from the summer of 2017.
This is gonna be a big summer tho.

Charles Baker
Charles Baker

Carl of Swindon looks like he's going to be investigated for trying to acquire Child Porn

Fucking kek

twitter.com/cultofdusty1/status/1122566600681508864

Henry Mitchell
Henry Mitchell

The hang the paedos, fund the NHS party has become fund the paedos hang the NHS…

Owen Garcia
Owen Garcia

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Dylan Fisher
Dylan Fisher

I can't see May being able to survive if the members themselves tell her to fuck off, as it is she's only alive because her own mps can't take a vote on it for a while.

Mind you said meeting would be in June, and considering the raping the Tories are about to get on Thursday I'm not even sure she'll survive that long, at some point even the neverBoris tories will be more worried about basic survival than a brexiter taking the helm of the party

Matthew Morgan
Matthew Morgan

at some point even the neverBoris tories will be more worried about basic survival than a brexiter taking the helm of the party
'At some point' means after Brexit is concluded. There doesn't have to be a GE for another 3 years yet so there's no reason for the Tories to panic about survival, especially when so much will change between now and then. And most Tory MPs think a no-deal Brexit (which is what we'd get under Boris) would be a disaster that would lose them the next election.

Carter Turner
Carter Turner

Honestly I expect Corbyn might resign this summer
Why? Because the melts keep telling the papers he will resign "NEXT WEEK"?
She survives because the omnipotent 1922 Committee wants her to survive, they wield the vast majority of power in the Tory party from what I gather.

Aaron Wood
Aaron Wood

Why? Because the melts keep telling the papers he will resign "NEXT WEEK"?
Nah, more thatbhe needs to go out on a high and the locals & eu election will do that. This is just a hunch imo tho.

Ryan Kelly
Ryan Kelly

Your hunch sucks nerd.

Josiah Turner
Josiah Turner

They're going to get absolutely destroyed in local and euro elections, and considering May was already on shaky ground I can't see how the tories won't be in a panic afterwards. Every Tory is going to be looking at the Brexit Party surge cannibalizing their votes and will realize with May at the helm they're fucked.
She survives because the omnipotent 1922 Committee wants her to survive, they wield the vast majority of power in the Tory party from what I gather.
recently it was only by like 10-13 they compromised and forced her to tell them when she would go, rather than changing the rules so another no confidence vote could be held, which tells you she doesn't have that strong of a support there anymore.
Also this thing is a vote forced by the membership, they can't stop it and provided she survives till June the activists are going to have a chance to essentially show trial her

Nicholas Perez
Nicholas Perez

The absolute state of Plaid Cymru. Because ignoring People's Vote wankers is akin to ignoring the Stop The War movement.

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Elijah Wilson
Elijah Wilson

Based decision by the NEC tbh. Compromise to keep Leavers and Remainers happy.

Bentley Ross
Bentley Ross

Also most of Plaid's base voted leave…

Ryan Green
Ryan Green

Is it even a compromise though? It's exactly the same policy as the one agreed last year.

Kevin Nelson
Kevin Nelson

Labour's policy has always been a compromise between Leave and Remain, at least to me.

Aaron Price
Aaron Price

Who'd have though Jeremy Corbyn would have turned out to be the new Tonty Blair
Repeat after me:

JEREMY CORBYN IS PRIME MINISTER

Michael Wright
Michael Wright

THINGS

Lincoln Jones
Lincoln Jones

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Ian Smith
Ian Smith

..Referendums on Europe until we finally reach a solution…

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Jordan Gray
Jordan Gray

I guess this is the new thing to bitch about in the news cycle…

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Charles Hughes
Charles Hughes

from what I gather
lmao why are you pretending to be a Tory party insider?

Nathaniel Flores
Nathaniel Flores

and yet he still claims to not be alt-right.

Logan Cook
Logan Cook

Why has Maduro not expelled Juan Guaidó?

Isaac Smith
Isaac Smith

wrong thread m8

Xavier Kelly
Xavier Kelly

Also most of Plaid's base voted leave…
Nah the welsh leave vote was mostly in the labour heartlands aka the big cities aka the M4.
Plaid's base is deepest darkest Westest Wales, which voted overwhelmingly for remain.

David Collins
David Collins

I live in a marginal but only ever get the Labour people canvassing, I was some tory knobhead to grill for a bit of fun.

Cameron Mitchell
Cameron Mitchell

Doesn't help that there are two councils that only sorta cover the Y Fro Gymraeg.
that's because the tories don't have people to canvass
I live in a safe seat and they can't even get people out and about nowadays.

Henry Taylor
Henry Taylor

ctrl-f "extinction rebellion"
no results
why aren't you lads talking about literally THE grassroots movement thats about to topple the capitalist system and instill a new era of communalism and prosperity?

Ethan Cox
Ethan Cox

Because we talked about it in the last thread.
Also ER is more a means to the end to get people talking about Climate change: it is mostly students and hippies.

Angel Clark
Angel Clark

Its a label to allow groups to form and the events are coordinated such that people become radicalised.

The aims of the movement extend far beyond getting people to talk about climate change, this is fairly obvious.

Eli King
Eli King

It's an inherently idealistic and bourgois movement though. It is useful, but it is not the second coming of the GJ.

Christopher Lee
Christopher Lee

Fuck Extinction rebellion, its a well funded con and not a grassroots movement. They are a manufactured PR group designed to raise the price on energy for Western consumers while ignoring the environmental damage done in the third world. They are increasing oil companies revenue, not toppling the capitalist system. Check out Piers Corbyn.

Luke Watson
Luke Watson

Check out Piers Corbyn
You're pretty dense aren't ya?

Wyatt Jenkins
Wyatt Jenkins

Piers > Jez

Julian Wright
Julian Wright

It is more of a stepping stone to actual radicalism than radicalism itself tbh. Idk if green politics becomes more visible with it

James James
James James

It's an inherently idealistic and bourgois movement though
how do you mean?

The effect of "extinction rebellion", as I have witnessed first hand, is that it brings ordinary people together to talk about "climate change" and the wider world; the systems and power strctures that have led us to talk about "6th mass extinction events".

The "3 demands" and stuff is literally just marketing to radicalise people. After a while nobody gives a fuck about Gail, Roger etc. beyond them being recognisable faces

Jordan Lopez
Jordan Lopez

It is more of a stepping stone to actual radicalism than radicalism itself tbh
I think I agree. The social connections that are formed under the label of "extinction rebellion" are very powerful I feel

Julian Sanders
Julian Sanders

how do you mean?
It's not based in class antagonisms or trying to address capitalistic structures, but instead on ideological preference (Ecologism) and has an activist mindset (as I said, it's mostly students and hippies). I don't think they are a bad thing, but they are nothing that useful outside of rhetoric.

Kevin Stewart
Kevin Stewart

What i've witnessed is that they have pissed ordinary people off, people otherwise receptive to their message, in order to get coverage in the establishment media and funding from capitalists. If they wanted to help they should go out picking up litter. Clean beaches and waterways and plant trees in order to build social connections. Annoying people and protesting against Corbyn isn't helping anything. Fuck that little retard Greta Thunberg can fuck off back to Sweden.

Owen Richardson
Owen Richardson

In what way do you think the strategy should be different?

Brayden Bell
Brayden Bell

1) They didn't piss off ordinary people, they pissed off Londoners ergo they are based.
2) "They should pick-up litter" lol yeah that's gonna stop CO2 production, cleaning the effing park.
3) "Fuck Greta Thunberg" lol go write for the spectator you creepy fuck.
Actually I don't, I think what they have done is perfect. Just that there isn't really anything to be gotten from the movement itself outside of it generating a topic.

Brandon James
Brandon James

1) They didn't piss off ordinary people, they pissed off Londoners ergo they are based.
Nope they pissed people off all over the country, especially by protesting against Jeremy, who honestly made a fool of himself meeting with them. I don't live in London but I hurt my eyes rolling them every time I heard about ER. I'm glad their "movement" seems to have fizzled out already.
2) "They should pick-up litter" lol yeah that's gonna stop CO2 production, cleaning the effing park.
CO2 isn't a particularly bad thing and plan ting trees absolutely reduced the level of CO2 in the environment. Plastic in the rivers is literally worse than CO2.
3) "Fuck Greta Thunberg" lol go write for the spectator you creepy fuck.
I don't mean nonce her, my point is that she deserves zero respect and should be ignored.

Brody Bell
Brody Bell

In my local group there are now very early plans to form self sustaining communities - perhaps soon there will be masses of people dropping out of employment, dropping out of rental agreements and other financial obligations to live communally.

There also appears to be a four fold increase in members since the Easter actions. People who otherwise watched TV in the evening are now having conversations about capitalism, the patriarchy, racism, exploitation. And it certainly, certainly isn't mainly students and hippies(although these groups do comprise a fairly large extent of the "core" group).

Is this something?

Juan Brooks
Juan Brooks

Watch this ERebellion faggots

youtube.com/watch?v=IAUrzee9jfc

Jace Richardson
Jace Richardson

I don't mean nonce her, my point is that she deserves zero respect and should be ignored.
Honestly considering she goes around pissing off the Murdoch press she gets a thumbs up from me.
As I said, they are hippies.

Noah Wood
Noah Wood

she goes around pissing off the Murdoch press
Wouldn't know, I don't read Murdoch press.

David Clark
David Clark

Congrats you get to live in a bubble.

Ryder Torres
Ryder Torres

Really interesting video, thanks for posting.

Certainly this has hightened my scepticism of the "central" XR group. Yet I still feel as though their actions have brought about a movement with revolutionary potential.

I'm going to look into the "green new deal group" more, I don't know much about it in all honesty

Juan Fisher
Juan Fisher

Prefer to live in a bubble than waste my time reading the S*n

Robert Cooper
Robert Cooper

The problem with extinction rebellion isn't the sentiment, or the people it's mobilizing, it's the people behind it. Fuck this reactionary faggot screeching about them.

See:

Wyatt Nelson
Wyatt Nelson

Oh my bad fam, didn't realise you'd already posted this.

Julian Jenkins
Julian Jenkins

Nah no worries, people need to fucking see it.

Zachary Lopez
Zachary Lopez

As if the Tories haven't locked down internal democracy. You'd think they would have seen what Blair did and stitch the whole system up like the Americans have.
I'm not, the Tory party pretty much acts as a boomer dictatorship for the most part and the only reason you feel confident enough to correct me is because of the other poster you grubby little spaz.
Because it's an NGO operated wannabe CND that doesn't accept the real cost of stopping climate change: Socialism. The big stink should be apparent when they're plastered page to page in the papers and are on the BBC and bright eyed teenagers are being held up as the liberal poster children of when you want things enough they happen.
We need our own radicalisation pipeline but I'm not sure I want to trust a bunch of liberal thinktanks with part of the process.
What i've witnessed is that they have pissed ordinary people off
Oh no, not the totally ordinary people of London who moan when terror attacks close the tubes.
If they wanted to help they should go out picking up litter.
NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER
masses of people dropping out of employment, dropping out of rental agreements and other financial obligations to live communally.
Is this something?
It's nothing. You need peoples' assemblies and direct confrontation with the state over the issue, not passive resistance and dropping out.
Based.

Henry Wright
Henry Wright

I like Plaid sometimes as they seem to be an actual left-leaning national party sometimes but fuck me they seem neolib as shit since based Leanne left. It also fucking sucks that Labour in Wales seem to be such an easy target for their attacks(not sure how justified they are half the time tbh)

Isaiah Gomez
Isaiah Gomez

As if the Tories haven't locked down internal democracy. You'd think they would have seen what Blair did and stitch the whole system up like the Americans have.
the method used hadn't been used in over 180 years, so it's not shocking they never bothered to check that.
It required like 70 tory local groups to push it (or 10% or some shit), and technically the result is nonbinding. Though if the majority of them tell her to fuck off it's pretty terminal.

The thing is normally if the tories are in the state where they want to knife a leader they have the normal procedure or toppling them through the mps, but they dropped the ball only for May to fuck up even more but now with no exit scenario.

Brayden Morgan
Brayden Morgan

the method used hadn't been used in over 180 years
This just annoys me more that some other twerp called me out for not knowing about it.
May is a retard for taking this poison chalice, this is Cameron's fault, and if she gets any blame it can probably be shared with Boris, and a bit with Gove too. She's going to get the whole blame bag though by the looks of things at this rate.

Owen Morris
Owen Morris

Guys I want to leave the EU completly.

considering voting for the Brexit party as a one time protest vote…should I do it..?

I'm a labour party member btw, but just feel they've been dithering on this for too long and I don't want to be allied with Watson and Adonis

Angel Campbell
Angel Campbell

the EU elections don't matter and won't actually effect Brexit so even if the Brexit party got 100% of the seats it wouldn't actually have any power to do anything. The Brexit party protest vote is large enough already and have taken away the votes of the tories and ukip, scaring them silly.
Its better to vote Labour simply to ensure that Labour is the only real party with a good showing that maintains its electoral support. Its all about how it looks.

Aaron Sullivan
Aaron Sullivan

but what if labour do well in locals but poorly in EU, wouldn't that show a clear message too?

Jayden Parker
Jayden Parker

Fair point.

Lucas Anderson
Lucas Anderson

Also good. Not going to hold it against anyone to vote for the Brexit party but I still think there's a value to a clear perception by everyone that its the Tories who are being absolutely smashed by them rather than a less clear general upsurge for the Brexit party at the expense of everyone else that will absolutely be perceived and used as a boon for the far right.

Eli Reed
Eli Reed

voting brexit party = bad idea
voting brexit party = politically asinine
voting brexit party = petit-bourgeois
voting brexit party = larp
voting brexit party = anticommunist
voting brexit party = cringe narcicism
voting brexit party = small brain
voting brexit party = mong
voting brexit party = reprobate
voting brexit party = being a liberal democrat
voting brexit party = being a thatcherite
voting brexit party = being a nonce
voting brexit party = being a furry
voting brexit party = off my christmas list

Luke Cruz
Luke Cruz

Probably best to just not vote in them. Supporting the Brexit party is kind of shit on the other hand the people standing for labour are pretty shit as well, Thought about the SDP?

Samuel Thompson
Samuel Thompson

Labour democracy is fucked and people at the top are trying to force remain..what should a left leaver do in this situation?

Either way, all that's being voted for is the election of privileged people to get a high salary. fuck it, i might just spoil my ballot

Elijah Allen
Elijah Allen

Vote Labour then go beat up a Labour Remainer politician to compensate.

Oliver White
Oliver White

No Labour has to be seen as the party for politics above and beyond Brexit. Too many parties are fixated on Brexit that nothing else matters much. It need not be the party with the most EU MEPs but a least a sizeable amount compared to Brexit. Even if you are a Leaver, you would be limiting the Overton Window between BXP and Labour.

Hudson Jackson
Hudson Jackson

Need a government committed to the reintroduction of penal transportation tbh

Logan Torres
Logan Torres

Any even remotely socialist(even "government doing stuff" tier) program requires leaving the EU.

Jason Garcia
Jason Garcia

*thinking*

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Ian Morgan
Ian Morgan

Yes and? But if there is never any political will to anything socialistic in the first place during the first referdumn.

Honestly the better way to leave is to do socialistic, have the EU tell UK to stop, and use that as proper casus belli to actually leave EU. Right now Brexit is just dividing the country for no real objectives other than vague platitudes of 'Leave is bad/good'

Nathan Cox
Nathan Cox

stein

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Benjamin Fisher
Benjamin Fisher

Gotta give it to ER, they've done a good job of setting the conversation.

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Colton Jenkins
Colton Jenkins

The SDP buy hard-in on identity politics and have shits like Rod Liddle onboard.

Josiah Murphy
Josiah Murphy

Even if Corbyn was an anti-semite that kind of hypocrisy should get him fired (at).

Jason Murphy
Jason Murphy

What does Labour membership look like on a day-to-day basis? Never done anything political before and now I'm considering joining, but I have no idea what to expect. Was originally kind of ambivalent on the idea, but CPGB (not CPGB-ML, though I think they're still MLs) have some decent writing on the subject that bought me around.

Benjamin Garcia
Benjamin Garcia

It really depends where you are. I'm from a rural tory area so most of the members tend to be decently radical and pretty ordinary: mostly lower middle class although one of the main peeps in our CLP is a stay-at-home-mum who is an education activist because the schools in my area are getting shagged. But yeah, YMMV massively. One thing I would recommend is firstly going to social events after meetings: say if they go down the pub or something. Secondly, avoid like campaign groups for now: they tend to be full of cranks.

Josiah Sanchez
Josiah Sanchez

It really depends where you are
Shitty little town near Birmingham that's been pretty solidly Tory for the past 15+ years.
One thing I would recommend is firstly going to social events after meetings
Yeah, sounds like a plan.
avoid like campaign groups for now
You mean as in Facebook likes, or just campaign groups in general?

Ethan Thompson
Ethan Thompson

Shitty little town near Birmingham that's been pretty solidly Tory for the past 15+ years.
Oh so probs not too different from mine then: just with far fewer remainers. If I were you I'd try and build links with TU members there, they tend to be the solidest.
You mean as in Facebook likes, or just campaign groups in general?
Both, the FB groups tend to be farms for getting suspended and the campaign groups as I said, tend to be full of 50yo+ cranks.

Ethan Thompson
Ethan Thompson

Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire voted Leave

Ian Roberts
Ian Roberts

Pembrokeshire is pretty anglo tbh: mostly because it was settled by Vikings.

Grayson Cox
Grayson Cox

twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1123649582964125701
GEORGE GALLOWAY IS BACK BABY

Brayden Roberts
Brayden Roberts

If I were you I'd try and build links with TU members there, they tend to be the solidest.
Right, sounds a plan.
Both
Thought as much, fair points.

Samuel Young
Samuel Young

Isn't he running for the Brexit Party or supporting it?

Cameron Peterson
Cameron Peterson

He's said he will vote for them, but he's not a member tho.

Isaac Morris
Isaac Morris

So the Defence Secretary leaked top-secret info to the press and all he gets is demoted to the backbenches. The PM 'now considers the matter to be closed' so no criminal charges. Meanwhile Julian Assange is hounded to the ends of the earth for publishing similar info leaked by someone else. Really makes you think huh.

Ayden Fisher
Ayden Fisher

Well a prospective leader of the lib dems has just written to the Met Police to report the crime. So there may be a criminal investigation now.

Wyatt Bell
Wyatt Bell

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Dylan Evans
Dylan Evans

GANG

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Angel Edwards
Angel Edwards

Tbh it would be pretty amusing if he was investigated and it emerged that May had no evidence and was using him as a scapegoat.

Kayden Perry
Kayden Perry

I'm pretty sure this is literally what happened, or at least she used some vague information as a pretext to sack someone she didn't like

Considering Williamson isn't backing down and is constantly shilling to the torygraph he's innocent there almost certainly will be more about this

Jose Hernandez
Jose Hernandez

UNIONISTS RISE UP!

Angel Morris
Angel Morris

UNIONISTS RISE UP!

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Alexander Davis
Alexander Davis

here we… here we… here we FUCKING GO

Parker Perry
Parker Perry

Honestly the IWGB are the only genuinely pro EU group i can say are real leftists.
Yeah lads, vote in the locals.

Brody Brooks
Brody Brooks

Ms Onasanya was expelled from the Labour Party after being convicted of perverting the course of justice for lying about a speeding offence in December.
Oh NOW you expelled her after allowing her to break the vote, blocking a clean no deal Brexit forever.

Ryder Harris
Ryder Harris

Wait, youre angry labour didnt suspended her before getting convicted despite their justification for doing so was getting convicted?

Andrew Edwards
Andrew Edwards

She was was sentenced in January, but she was allowed to keep her fucking seat, until later that the people in Peterborough managed to oust her with a petition right now. But I guess you don't care about corruption in Britain and making excuses, while later on cut off loose strings and make yourself look as some victim.

Sebastian Russell
Sebastian Russell

I am confused about what you are complaining about. Labour cant eject her from her seat, and the only process apart from recognition is the recall vote.
Also she wasnt convicted for corruption, but lying to bobbies in a speeding offence.

Joseph Peterson
Joseph Peterson

Er. Anyone feel like this latest bit of slander on Corbyn is gonna be used to paint anyone talking about "anti-imperialism" as an anti-semite now?

Nicholas Rogers
Nicholas Rogers

They wont go that far, even Blair said he liked Hobson.

Lucas Nguyen
Lucas Nguyen

MPs can't kick each other out of the seat though. That sounds fucking dumb.

Bentley Allen
Bentley Allen

Not that far maybe, but they probably will accuse anyone who mentions bankers and finance capital of antisemitism now

Sebastian Hall
Sebastian Hall

Fairs. Still, though.
Don't they already?

Andrew Lopez
Andrew Lopez

Also also Hobson is taught on a lot of IR courses, there have been a load of professors reacting to the article saying "Yeah but we still need to teach his work".

Samuel Howard
Samuel Howard

New EU poll.

Also reports are George Galloway asked Farage to stand for the Brexit Party. Not known if he has been accepted or not.

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Eli Lee
Eli Lee

Anybody who uses Leave/Remain rather than local issue to push to vote for a certain party today is not a democrat but a partisan abusing the term "democracy" as a rhetorical weapon to get what they want, the fucking cunts.

Julian Murphy
Julian Murphy

True enough. Also noticed that the Independent's article on the matter could be read as stating that Lenin was "inspired" by the antisemitism in the book. Makes me think tbh

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Bentley Ramirez
Bentley Ramirez

i don't think he was talking about the irish
a rather suspiciously ☘️☘️specific☘️☘️ denial if you ask me

Andrew Turner
Andrew Turner

Yougov consistently has CUK like 5% above any other pollster
my doubt senses are tingling.

Ethan Jackson
Ethan Jackson

a) she was expelled in January, long before the vote you're referring to
b) that vote does not 'block a clean no-deal Brexit forever'. It only forced May to request an extension to Article 50 on that occasion, which she was already planning on doing, so it had zero impact.

Noah Peterson
Noah Peterson

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William Collins
William Collins

Can I just say how much of a flying cunt it is to try and get a proxy vote sorted. Thank you for your time.

Ian Peterson
Ian Peterson

twitter.com/CllrJeanieBell/status/1123917856176050177
LMAO
I
B
D
E
MAO

Jaxson Ross
Jaxson Ross

Fun fact: not only is this electoral fraud but it also counts as post theft, which is 6 months in the slammer.

Camden Williams
Camden Williams

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Colton Jenkins
Colton Jenkins

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James Hughes
James Hughes

Polls are shut. Btw, does anyone else remember the absolute autism when we had like three different groups of channers fucking raiding the thread last yeah? That was good banter.

Hunter Martinez
Hunter Martinez

Btw, does anyone else remember the absolute autism when we had like three different groups of channers fucking raiding the thread
I'd forgotten about that.

John Diaz
John Diaz

It was when there were random anti-tran posters is when I had to go to bed tbh. Woke up the next morning and the thread was already anchored. Good times

Jace Reed
Jace Reed

I love how much liberals are actually terrified of Milne.

Zachary Walker
Zachary Walker

Tell me this man isn't going to steal one sock from each laundry load

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Carter Howard
Carter Howard

It is brilliant tbh. When Corbyn is PM it is gonna be even better.
Also wtf Mile is 61. Legit with him and Hatton I am wondering if there is some kind of socialist blessing that you don't age a day after 45.

Hunter Russell
Hunter Russell

First council results:

Washington North (Sunderland): Labour HOLD.
Silksworth (Sunderland): Labour HOLD.
Lee Chapel North (Basildon): Labour HOLD.

Jayden Carter
Jayden Carter

For the record Sunderland is important since the Blairites were purged recently (By Fabians, lol) and they are about to go full Preston.

Anthony Sanchez
Anthony Sanchez

Lee Chapel North - Basildon:
Lab: 53% (-3)
Con: 26% (-1)
LD: 21% (+21)
Labour HOLD.
No UKIP (-18) as prev.

Aaron Ortiz
Aaron Ortiz

Washington North (Sunderland) result:
Lab: 42.7% (-17.5)
UKIP: 29.8% (+8.7)
Con: 12.2% (+0.9)
Grn: 11.7% (+7.5)
LDem: 3.6% (+0.3)

Charles Martin
Charles Martin

Silksworth (Sunderland) result:

Lab: 37.7% (-15.9)
UKIP: 28.3% (+5.7)
Con: 19.8% (+1.4)
Grn: 9.6% (+4.2)
Oth: 4.7% (+4.7)

Kayden Long
Kayden Long

UKIP GAIN FROM LAB - ST ANNE's (SUND)

Sebastian Green
Sebastian Green

CON GAIN FROM LAB - ST CHAD'S (SUND)

Hunter Walker
Hunter Walker

Spalding Castle (South Holland) result:

Con: 46.7% (-37.8)
Grn: 37.6% (+22.1)
Ind: 15.7% (+15.7)

^Indicative of some things to come, expect weird Green gains from the tories.

Levi Howard
Levi Howard

Rodbourne Cheney (Swindon) result:

Lab: 46.3% (+3.6)
Con: 38.3% (+7.1)
UKIP: 15.4% (-4.8)
Don't cry Carl.

Ryder Rogers
Ryder Rogers

twitter.com/woke_teen/status/1123729608367575042

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John Ramirez
John Ramirez

She also claimed TERF is a sexist slur…

Nathan Price
Nathan Price

Nethermayne - Basildon:

Ind (Kettle): 73% (+70)
Lab: 12% (-15)
Con: 7% (-22)
Ind (Hodge): 5% (+5) [Incumbent and ex-UKIP]
LD: 3% (-8)

Independent GAIN from UKIP.

No UKIP (-30) as prev.

Jackson Anderson
Jackson Anderson

awestruck that the thing that has broken SNP's legendary party unity is TERFism

Levi Miller
Levi Miller

They've got really uptight on internet shit recently: they said that the government should regulate Steam. There used to be a joke they were the nanny party in Holyrood, it appears they may be right…

Aiden Gomez
Aiden Gomez

Will Scotland be the world’s first TERF country?

Parker Russell
Parker Russell

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party
Odds-on someone adds "transphobia" to the SNP ideology box.

Brayden King
Brayden King

Steam's regional pricing is against EU rules and Steam doesn't even pay taxes in some countries. Damn right it should be regulated

Oliver Wilson
Oliver Wilson

they said that the government should regulate Steam
based tbh, need someone to filter out all the shit and make sales good again.

ironically my understanding is that this started because sturgeon etc tried to do pro trans rights stuff and then that pissed off their the party TERFs.
or possibly just a few of their more terfish people were placed in the awkward position of picking between sturgeon and wings over scotland and broke for wings.
(i don't know why i still check WoS. almost nothing except the aforementioned tunnock's exclusionary ridiculous farce has happened in scotland since 2017.)

Logan Ortiz
Logan Ortiz

No as in game content, after the whole "Rape Day" thing.

Michael Martin
Michael Martin

Seems like Labour is losing a lot of seats in the Britain Elects feed…

So will Labour still hold Sunderland after so much losses?

Caleb Phillips
Caleb Phillips

It’s gonna be a bad night for Labour then? We’ve already lost 21 seats.

Cooper Phillips
Cooper Phillips

they said that the government should regulate Steam
What type of regulations? Will they force DLCs to be free?

Jackson Hughes
Jackson Hughes

Well I think another part of it is that a lot of these people are conservative feminists: you know the sort who joined the suffrage movement so only landed women could vote. Since the SNP have a large (well did) rural base, these kind of people that tend to join the tories joined the SNP. Obviously they are opposed to trans or even LGBT stuff so this is why they are surfacing now.
So will Labour still hold Sunderland after so much losses?
Oh 100%, it is literally impossible for Labour to lose the council in these elections (only a third of cllrs are being elected).
Pic related.

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Ryder Murphy
Ryder Murphy

Atm appears that Labour isn't doing well in Tyneside, 100% expected mostly due to them being pro-brexit.

Isaiah Williams
Isaiah Williams

So are we still going to lose seats in the long run? What result should we hope for?

Thank you, btw.

Sebastian Brown
Sebastian Brown

Long run tonight there should be a decent chunk of Labour gains in the South.

Hudson Scott
Hudson Scott

No change in Harlton. Hartlepool moves from Lab to NoC, with plurality independents.

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Michael Miller
Michael Miller

Final results for Sunderland (75 seats):
Lab: 51
Tories: 12
Lib Dems: 8
UKIP :3
Greens: 1

South Tyneside (54 seats)
Lab: 48
Independents: 5
Greens: 1

Benjamin Ramirez
Benjamin Ramirez

Wow then those gains were really mild…

Juan Baker
Juan Baker

Only a third of seats are up for election.

Hartlepool on the other hand is a fucking mess:
IND: 4 (+3)
LAB: 3 (-7)
UKIP: 1 (+1)
FBR: 1 (+1)
VPP: 1 (+1)
CON: 1 (=)
FBR is a far-right party made by someone who was too radical for TOMMEHKIP (and is endorsed by Morrissey lol), and VVP is well, just read it: vapp.org.uk/manifesto

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Jose Smith
Jose Smith

"Conservatives have lost overall control of Basildon and Tandridge local authorities."
And we're off.

Oliver Anderson
Oliver Anderson

Basildon:
AB: 6 (+2)
CON: 5 (-3)
Localists: 2 (+2)
IND: 1 (+1)
UKIP: 0 (-2)

CON lose council to NOC.

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Jack Richardson
Jack Richardson

Any loss for the Conservatives is a victory for Labour at this point.

Sebastian Reed
Sebastian Reed

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Jeremiah Jones
Jeremiah Jones

Darfield (Barnsley) result:

D&V: 38.1% (+34.0)
Lab: 33.8% (-18.1)
LDem: 10.1% (+10.1)
EDem: 9.7% (+9.7)
Con: 8.4% (-4.9)
UKIP: 0.0% (-30.7)

D&V GAIN from Labour.

D&V = Democrats & Veterans.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrats_and_Veterans

Some really weird parties coming to the fore now.

Adrian Johnson
Adrian Johnson

FBR is a far-right party
Just looked at their website, they seem to be “Muh muslim” crowd. My god, British Natioanlism has gotten really boring from what it used to be.

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Juan Richardson
Juan Richardson

Wouldn't call Cromwell a Britnat tbh but w/e.

Angel Nelson
Angel Nelson

he was a proto-natioanlist

Carter Reed
Carter Reed

CON: 6 (+1)
LAB: 6 (-7)
Localists: 4 (+4)
LDM: 3 (+2)
UKIP: 1 (=)

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Lincoln Nguyen
Lincoln Nguyen

Damn Labour can’t catch a break…

Andrew Brown
Andrew Brown

wtf is happening

Julian Morgan
Julian Morgan

Brexit.

David Campbell
David Campbell

Literally all they had to do to win was support brexit.

Henry Rodriguez
Henry Rodriguez

The fact that people are basing their local elections on fucking Brexit shows how retarded they are and how little they care about democracy

Connor Morales
Connor Morales

support
not necessarily
problem was they didn't consolidate either side of the voting spectrum, brexiters fled labour for ukip, meme parties, or even the fucking tories, while the remainers went to the lib dems or greens.

and considering the memberships pro-remain tilt you can bet this will add fuel to the watsonite fire over being more explicitly remain

Tyler Evans
Tyler Evans

Tbh McDonnell is saying this is a mandate for Brexit. Good lad.

Christopher Wright
Christopher Wright

No it is not since Lib Dem are the biggest winner though. It is more of how divisive Brexit is so much that it even polluted the one election that doesn’t affect Brexit

Ryder Perez
Ryder Perez

The lib-dems arent really the biggest winner thought, they still haven't even recovered to what they were in 2015 ( around 1000). Also remember people vote lib-dem as a protest vote to stick a middle finger up at the main two parties rather actually vote for what the lib-dems stand for. Also FPTP makes it really hard to tell where votes have gone so its pretty hard to draw conclusions from local elections. But what I and a lot of people have found on the door is people are pissed off at the delay in Brexit.

Robert Williams
Robert Williams

What I don’t understand is why polls suggested Labour gaining 300 seats. We’ve lost seats. Granted the last half of results might be better, but how the fuck were we so off?

Seriously, what the fuck happened?

Brayden Jenkins
Brayden Jenkins

the narrative being pushed is that it was the opposite.

Robert Bennett
Robert Bennett

What I don’t understand is why polls suggested Labour gaining 300 seats.
There were polls?

Joshua Morgan
Joshua Morgan

CORBYN YOU HAD ONE JOB

Benjamin Harris
Benjamin Harris

Conservative -704

Labour -78

Liberal Democrat +428

Green +97

UKIP -76

Others +333

Fucking STATE of the tories down over 700 seats

Chase Johnson
Chase Johnson

tbh I think loosing wards in the north will help wake up the Labour front bench that they need to come out in favour of Brexit and get some deal done. The libdem gains across the country tend to be in areas where they used to do well (mainly gaining seats they lost in 2015) so has little to do with Brexit. People saying this is a good night for the lib-dems are pretty fucking dense since their starting position was basically nothing. If they fail to get to 2015 levels then they are fucked come general election.

Michael Price
Michael Price

So this is far worse for the Tories than expected, right? There was talk of them losing 800 seats and they've already lost nearly that with 1/3 of the councils yet to declare.

Gabriel Moore
Gabriel Moore

Imagine my shock

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48094266

Easton Sanchez
Easton Sanchez

get some deal done
How about EU go fucks itself, and if they keep yammering about fees owed, they will be paid in UGM-133A Trident II missiles, sent at the fastest possible speed?

Samuel Phillips
Samuel Phillips

OH NO NO NO

Brayden Diaz
Brayden Diaz

tbh I have been thinking the same thing. Its a shame we don't have a functioning navy, but we could practice aiming some cruise missiles at Brussels

Carter Brown
Carter Brown

On motherfucking Discord no less

they fail to get to 2015 levels
Isn't it around 1000 seats? Coz they are getting there.

they need to come out in favour of Brexit and get some deal done.
I think they already know, it is just the membership and commentariat that don't.

John Russell
John Russell

Dutchie here, glad the cuckservatives are getting devastated but how come Labour hasn't made any gains? Has murdoch's media managed to do that much damage?

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Carter Cook
Carter Cook

No firm stance on Brexit and pretending there isn't a fracture in the party over it alienates both sides.

You'd think we produced enough cartoons preaching about "trying to please everybody and ending up pleasing nobody".

Ayden Mitchell
Ayden Mitchell

yeah if I'm reading the wiki results correctly the lib dems are already higher than their 2011 results, and we're not even at everything counted
also
all the media going "voters punished both main parties for brexit"
labour down 100 while tories now have lost over 1000 seats
I get the labour LOSING seats is a shock and a terrible result for them but this isn't some equal punishment going on, the tories are being absolutely raped right now

Jackson Evans
Jackson Evans

Labour was expected to win since Tories was expected to plummet I guess. But yea Labour is getting screwed over by people obsessed with Brexit, Leave or Remain. If Brexit kills Labour, I honestly hope it tears the Union into pieces coz they don't deserve any better

Carson Nelson
Carson Nelson

If Brexit kills Labour
lets not get melodramatic, ~100 less Labour councillors in England isn't something that will sink Labour, there isn't even a need to consider the lib dems some renewed electoral threat and we're getting ~100 greens across the country which on the local level is at least as good as labour councillors tbh.
If this consolidates a Labour line on 'resolving Brexit' and a determination to take us out of the EU then it will be for the best, EU elections are still ahead and it looks like in the next GE a bunch of tory marginals will flip Labour.
Sure it would be great to be doing better and if Labour were knocking it out of the park and we were getting tired of winning every week, but things are still on a good course. Brexit is killing the Tories, Labour will emerge stronger, lefter and in power.

Nolan Ortiz
Nolan Ortiz

If this consolidates a Labour line on 'resolving Brexit' and a determination to take us out of the EU then it will be for the best
Too idealistic. And ngl the current Labour's approach is already good enough as it is, it is just the public refusal to not let Brexit overwrite everything that caused this nonsense. Labour still has to operate above and beyond Brexit no matter what the hardcore Leavers and Remainers want it not to be.

Jeremiah Hughes
Jeremiah Hughes

Labour still has to operate above and beyond Brexit no matter what the hardcore Leavers and Remainers want it not to be.
This. The problem is the large faction of Blairite ultra-remainers in Labour who're hell bent on cancelling Brexit at any cost.

Isaac Ross
Isaac Ross

Tories down over -1200 seats now….

Jace Hall
Jace Hall

And yet the story of the election is apparently 'both main parties do badly' even though one lost 20 times more seats than the other.

Adrian Cruz
Adrian Cruz

Sadly this won't happen, the narrative that is being pushed is that Labour is losing to pro-remain parties (the lib dems), and the Watson faction will really really gun for this. The reality is of course the complete opposite, with the seats they are losing mostly being in pro-leave areas. But I'm afraid that this is going to push Labour into backing a second referendum. I genuinely think that if Brexit isn't resolved soon then both major parties will be reduced to a rump and the political landscape will change massively.

On a side note I'm practically convinced that this whole second referendum thing is a psyop to drive young Labour voters who've been brainwashed by the liberal media away from Corbyn and the left and turn them into good little centrists. Absolutely disgusting tbh.

Nathan Lopez
Nathan Lopez

I'll be interested in seeing the number of defaced ballots

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Lincoln Thomas
Lincoln Thomas

Well, May's finally achieved something of note:

She's beaten John Major for his 1991 losses [-1035]

She's beaten "Sunny" Jim Callaghan for his 1977 Losses [-1098]

On course for Blair, 1999 (-1,611).

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John Nelson
John Nelson

the seats they are losing mostly being in pro-leave areas
sauce on that?

Oliver Moore
Oliver Moore

It is obviously that, look at what the greens and the lib-dems are doing. I'm lucky that my area all the young Labour people are pretty solidly leave.

William Smith
William Smith

Sadly this won't happen, the narrative that is being pushed is that Labour is losing to pro-remain parties (the lib dems), and the Watson faction will really really gun for this.
That narrative will be destroyed when the Brexit Party win the European Elections.

Brayden Rogers
Brayden Rogers

Lib dem defacement blurred out
Wonder what that was

Jason Jones
Jason Jones

I wonder if it was something particularly interesting, or just that they didn't want to publish the address.
I'd assume it was the address, but then they left the other candidates names.

Ryder Davis
Ryder Davis

The defacement figures will have been massively overstated in my mind.
Mostly just dafties doing it so they post pictures to Twitter for clout.

Daniel Kelly
Daniel Kelly

was reading a story by Robert Peston
why tories and labour should be terrified
spends about two sentences noting the tories have lost over a fucking thousand seats
spends 4/5 of the article talking about labour
up to a point this is because the tories being fucking raped yesterday was a given, though considering the worst prediction was a 800 seat loss when they're at 1300 it boggles my mind people aren't more focused on just how JUST'd the tories were.
really sniffing out the media bias imo

Ryder Morgan
Ryder Morgan

Labour losing control of bin collection times and the village gala is a disaster for the party tbh lads
Can you post the full size image? The second pic is obvs a bit taller and I'd like it without the text or the wonky laser eyes.
Peston is one of the biggest muck slingers there is, fuck the guy.

Jack Mitchell
Jack Mitchell

Lol the NHS party are back bby. Its 2005 all over again.

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Jeremiah Jones
Jeremiah Jones

Are there any small far left parties that run in these locals in some places?

In the more melt based years I sometimes thought about spoiling my ballot but in the end I decided it just wasn't worth taking the time out of my day to do it.

Jaxson Cruz
Jaxson Cruz

Not really any far left, but there are a load of centre-nazbol and socdem ones.

Easton Myers
Easton Myers

Haven't kept up with UK Politics but is the labour party absolutely fucked?
It's a shame Corbyn is getting fucked over, he was a cute lad.

James Anderson
James Anderson

Blair, 1999 (-1,611)
fucking hell

Nicholas Campbell
Nicholas Campbell

I've just had a quick look at the numbers myself, it seems that labour losing councillors is moderately correlated with leave vote. However, in areas where labour gained councillors, leave vote was also also correlated (although much more weakly). What conclusions can be drawn from this idk.

t. GCSE Statistics student

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Brandon Ortiz
Brandon Ortiz

That wouldn't really make a difference as BXP is mostly going to be winning votes from UKIP and the Tories. As long as CUK, Lib Dems and Greens do well at Labour's expense, which may or may not happen, there will be a case for saying Labour's stance is losing them votes.

It was 1,161 and it was mostly because 1999 was the same cycle as 1995 when the Tories lost over 2,000, so it was a reversion to the mean.

Xavier Jones
Xavier Jones

Unless Blair shits get purged and Corbyn commits to Brexit instead of dancing around it.

Eli Peterson
Eli Peterson

No clear link between remain support and lab losses/gains either.

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David Brown
David Brown

The majority of Labour wants a second referendum though. So he's probably fucked either way.

Benjamin Rodriguez
Benjamin Rodriguez

implying they didn't already fuck off to LibDems and Greens

Liam Carter
Liam Carter

lib-dems
1,350 seats
fuck

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Juan Lopez
Juan Lopez

Amazing how 'vote Lib Dem to keep the Tories out' has become an acceptable idea again, despite the 2010-15 government and the numerous shitty Tory-Lib Dem coalitions we've seen at the local level.

Oliver Rivera
Oliver Rivera

Who are these people voting for the libdems? Obviously I obviously don't interact with many of them but is it all just like middle aged melts or what? I can't see many people around their 20s voting for them after the whole tuition+coalition thing but someone has to be.

Juan James
Juan James

Can you guys even ""waste votes" like in Burgerville? If not, then wtf.

Ethan Edwards
Ethan Edwards

my guess is that it's mostly rural liberal conservatives who were happy to vote tory in the pre-brexit days of 2015 (eg North Norfolk, Bath, Cotswolds). probably a few labour remainers as well in cities but most of them are going to the greens i think (eg Norwich, Brighton, Warwick).

Joshua Thomas
Joshua Thomas

Who are these people voting for the libdems?
Blairites

Adrian Myers
Adrian Myers

Middle class people who work in median, average jobs and don’t engage heavily in politics. People who just really want a continuation of the status quo and don’t really understand politics beyond an emotional level.

The middle aged, office types who hate the tories because of Brexit, but wouldn’t ever vote Labour.

Obviously these people aren’t all of the demographic voting Lib Dem, but they’re the heart of it.

Josiah Brooks
Josiah Brooks

0.6411 vs 0.2674
Almost irrelevant for the second one lmao.

Eli Roberts
Eli Roberts

Also worth saying that the greens do well in rural areas because the tories there are agrarianists that dont notice/care about the Green's econ or social stances.
tbh Lab-Grn pact wen

William Gonzalez
William Gonzalez

YEAH BUDDY SPEARMAN'S FUCKING RANK

Logan Hernandez
Logan Hernandez

Tfw media outlets are making him sound more based than he probably is
foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/09/dont-underestimate-corbyns-pet-stalinist/
Seumas Milne loves the Soviet Union, hates the EU, and has the ear of a possible future prime minister.
Holy shit my dick

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Cooper Wright
Cooper Wright

Honest question, do these council results even show all that much? Hardly seems like Labour have sustained any long-term damage and I'd imagine people are gonna forget about the Lib Dems, Greens and the 9001 irrelevant microparties that've cropped up once Brexit is dealt with. Or am I being too optimistic?

Chase Lopez
Chase Lopez

There are a few swing areas that Labour lost support in: Derby and Mansfield are important in this. Also the Lib Dems and Greens are permanent parts of our political system, but I think people are misreading why they did well. the Lib dems are regaining their vote from 2010 that switched to the tories in 2015, while the Greens did massively well in rural tory areas because there are some unique dynamics going on there.

Aaron Hill
Aaron Hill

4 gains for the Yorkshire party lol.

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Henry Turner
Henry Turner

I'd imagine people are gonna forget about the Lib Dems, Greens and the 9001 irrelevant microparties that've cropped up once Brexit is dealt with
No one cares about the long run atm.

Camden Thomas
Camden Thomas

We don;t have the luxury of the long term atm.

Juan Edwards
Juan Edwards

That is what everyone obsessed with Brexit thinks

Carson Campbell
Carson Campbell

Mate with brexit you cannot plan for the long term: everyone's longterm planning involved not having to deal with EU elections. Look how that turned out.

Gavin Reyes
Gavin Reyes

Yea thats my point. Everyone thinks the local elections matters a lot coz they are only looking at the short term due to Brexit.

Lincoln Perry
Lincoln Perry

There are a few swing areas that Labour lost support in
Fair point.
Also the Lib Dems and Greens are permanent parts of our political system
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they aren't, just that outside of opposition to Brexit - which, granted, is obviously a pretty big thing right now - they don't really seem to be bringing that much to the table. I dunno. I'm probably talking out of my arse here.
No one cares about the long run atm.
True enough, I suppose.

Kevin Hughes
Kevin Hughes

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they aren't, just that outside of opposition to Brexit - which, granted, is obviously a pretty big thing right now - they don't really seem to be bringing that much to the table. I dunno. I'm probably talking out of my arse here.
Well the Lib Dems offer an option for Liberal Tories to jump to, which while cause by brexit is also a result of their pivot towards right-wing identity politics.
As for the Greens, environmentalism is a big topic atm and they are only gonna gain attention as the Fens start flood. Also they tend to do well in Rural Tory areas due to conservationism so they will only grow.

James Smith
James Smith

Northern Ireland First Preferences #LE2019:

DUP: 24.1% (+1.0)
SFN: 23.2% (-0.9)
UUP: 14.1% (-2.0)
SDLP: 12.0% (-1.6)
ALL: 11.5% (+4.8)
TUV: 2.2% (-2.3)
GRN: 2.1% (+1.3)
PBP: 1.4% (+1.1)
AON: 1.1% (+1.1)
PUP: 0.8% (-1.2)

WAHEY PBP

Brandon Peterson
Brandon Peterson

Anyone know anything bout the nationalist March in Glasgow? Anyone there?

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Blake Hall
Blake Hall

Weird to see a nationalist march with EU flags.

Elijah Adams
Elijah Adams

Scottish nationalism is very pro-EU.

Chase Mitchell
Chase Mitchell

twitter.com/United_PHD/status/1123997809676640256
Uber strike on the 8th, don't scab.

Owen Nguyen
Owen Nguyen

Implying Uber drivers aren't the scabs…

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Zachary Howard
Zachary Howard

Most of them are proles with no other option. They are the 21st Century Dockers.

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Thomas Thompson
Thomas Thompson

Most of them are proles
No they aren't
Drivers/Riders: 🛑Don't open the app and don't cross the digital picket line between 7am and 4pm, May 8.
Morning rush then "strike" during middle of a weekday, until the evening rush…
That'll show them!
NICE ONE BOSS

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Julian Turner
Julian Turner

vote with your wallet
fuck these people

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Levi Jenkins
Levi Jenkins

Is it a mistake?

Josiah Jenkins
Josiah Jenkins

No they aren't
I mean I agree the strike is meme tier but how exactly aren't they at least proletarian adjacent? The vast majority of Uber drivers have other jobs, which would make them proles by definition on top of this.

Aiden Cruz
Aiden Cruz

They earn a wage and do not own their means of production. They are literally proles. And they certainly ain't fucking labour aristocracy being a part of the precariat. Also how are they wannabe petit-booj more than a black-cab driver?
7am is after morning rush
U wot?
Also the Uberstrikes tend to block-up roads as a part of their protest.
It's a natural result of the collapse of the British empire and fucking Maggie.

Kevin Ward
Kevin Ward

Absolutely BASED

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Chase Fisher
Chase Fisher

Extra weird to see the mix of EU and Catalan flags given how disgracefully the EU has treated Catalonia. These people are fundamentally muddle-headed.

Tyler King
Tyler King

The EU is the best chance Scotland has of levering itself out of the UK. The EU gives Scotland a body above the UK to appeal to in the case of mistreatment. Pre Brexit this was a little bit questionable (though I'd argue their position is stronger than Catalonia's for a variety of reasons) but post Brexit it's about the best strategy available. Though I doubt the EU care enough (even from a strategic/oil perspective) to actually make allowing a fair referendum a condition of improving Britain's deal.

Elijah Gray
Elijah Gray

Except if some form of hard brexit does happen, the border is going to be fucking hell. And if the UK joins the EEA there is no point in Scotland going independent.

Camden Cox
Camden Cox

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Oliver Diaz
Oliver Diaz

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Jaxon Morris
Jaxon Morris

Spectacle can be ok, i guess

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Robert Johnson
Robert Johnson

Reminder Bourgieous Centrists empower fascist reaction. The fight against fascism starts with the fight against centrism.

Asher Robinson
Asher Robinson

Wut?

Jacob Martinez
Jacob Martinez

Fiona Ferguson is in the house

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Anthony Wilson
Anthony Wilson

Fucking nice.

Hudson Perry
Hudson Perry

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Jackson Perez
Jackson Perez

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-Community_Labour_Alternative
These lads won a cllr too.

Samuel Bennett
Samuel Bennett

snake

Brody Jones
Brody Jones

Who is he?

Carter Smith
Carter Smith

Brendan Rodgers, former Liverpool and Celtic manager, current Leicester manager. He left Celtic very suddenly and some people didn't take so kindly to the departure eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/celtic/news/17466025.celtic-fans-chant-ira-song-about-brendan-rodgers/

Juan Ward
Juan Ward

Oh shit yeah I remember that.

But yeah, Belfast just elected an anti-sectarian council, is gonna be interesting how a governing coalition forms.

Mason Allen
Mason Allen

On the one hand he's a twat for leaving like that but on the other, beat City tomorrow pls.

Andrew Wood
Andrew Wood

Celtic vs CITEH should be a hell of a game.

Cooper Garcia
Cooper Garcia

thank mr sargal

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Jayden Myers
Jayden Myers

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Kayden Martin
Kayden Martin

A scab strike? How does that work?

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Anthony Phillips
Anthony Phillips

Honestly, the precariat is closer to lumpens than to proles, and I don't say this as an offense to them, but as an indictment of the current state of capitalism.

Jaxon Bell
Jaxon Bell

I doubt the portion that jerks off to being "their own boss" is that significant.

Chase Brown
Chase Brown

Less scabs out there, anyhow.

Hunter Davis
Hunter Davis

How are they Scabs?

Brandon Garcia
Brandon Garcia

This indictment necessarily leads one to a position of consistently decreasing revolutionary potential in the advanced capitalist economies though if you take this position of the "precariat" being closer to Lumpen does it not? It's an ever increasing strata, so what are the implications for theory & praxis here? Like this isn't me really disagreeing with you I just think that the statement is bold and it's something I've thought about on occasion before. Class Struggle should be the route to forcing Technological development but there is a relationship between advancement and the expansion of the Precariat so aren't you essentially caught in seemingly catch 22 scenario?

Dominic Jenkins
Dominic Jenkins

what

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Cameron Diaz
Cameron Diaz

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Isaiah Young
Isaiah Young

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/05/remember-orwells-chilling-warning-to-boot-licking-propagandists?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Remember Orwell’s chilling warning to boot-licking propagandists…
Arguments on the left are less to do with ideology, more with the lure of the gang
<Nick Cohen
My fucking sides.

Jaxon Wilson
Jaxon Wilson

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Hunter Torres
Hunter Torres

The frustrating part about the online chatter surrounding local election is that everyone seems to forget or ignore that the biggest or second biggest winners are independents, who is more Leave-ish than Remain. People browbeat Corbyn for not picking a side when he is actually torn between the two polarizing extremes on the Brexit question.

Owen Nguyen
Owen Nguyen

Jeremy Corbyn is not particularly interesting. Labour officials tell me that the key to understanding him is to grasp his intellectual inferiority complex, which resulted in him turning to political dogmatism as others with his disadvantages turn to Scientology. The socialist dogmas of the 1970s gave his limited mind certainty and freedom from responsibility, and a set of enduring precepts.
<Corbyn is literally retarded
Never seen someone go for this angle before

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Chase Gray
Chase Gray

Uber runs at a loss, and has since it's inception, that and the fact they promote themselves as a ride-share program allows them to avoid special license and insurance costs they'd otherwise incur. This will forces cab drivers out of work. Once all cab companies are closed porky will just raise the price of a ride and recoup their losses, no doubt they're playing the long game…Think of it like an unlicensed contractor stealing work by underbidding on jobs because they don't get proper permits, use cheap undocumented labour, et al. They're scabs user

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Hudson Thomas
Hudson Thomas

Uber runs at a loss
telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/06/ubers-uk-turnover-hits-60m-despite-year-regulatory-battles/
Factually incorrect.
And that isn't scabbing, you are attacking workers with no other option rather than supporting them unionising and formalising their work: you fucking lifestylist. Seriously this is like attacking itinerant black workers in 20s America because the local whites were already unionised.

Dominic Nelson
Dominic Nelson

It is scabbing fuckwit. They're scabbing on cabbies that actually followed the law and got medallions.
Those legit cabs are actually beholden to the public and have to serve the public trust by following regulations.
Regulations like having to have cabs that accommodate handicapped people, or not discriminating based on race.
Ask anyone who lives in a shitty part of a city, or even a semi rural area, getting an Uber ride can be a huge pain in the ass.
Uber and their drivers are serving only the most profitable customers, and fucking everyone else over.

David Perez
David Perez

workers with no other option
gonna need a demographic citation on this one

Jack Ward
Jack Ward

Sure you're not wrong: but why are youg etting pissing that they are unionising for better works, regularisation, and better pay then you dumb shit. Itinerant workers are as old as fucking time, shitting on them is a great way to breed resentment and fuck over everyone. You are playing into porky's hands you daft shit.
Nah tbf they are just working for £3 an hr for shits and giggles. Don't take it from me, take it from the most based trade union in this country right now, the IWGB:
Our industry is changing rapidly but drivers have a weak voice. Our incomes are in crisis with drivers falling below the poverty line as global corporations move in to exploit drivers at an unprecedented scale. Our regulators do nothing to protect and seem intent on discrimination and making operating conditions more difficult than ever before. The human cost is great with many families under severe strain, absent parents working 90 hours a week and debt levels rising. We say enough is enough.
We aim to represent all UK private hire drivers in the UK. We are honest and hard working people who are often badly treated by employers and the regulator. With a strong collective voice we will be heard, we will demand change and will make a better future for all private hire drivers.

Luis Turner
Luis Turner

but why are youg etting pissing that they are unionising for better works, regularisation, and better pay then you dumb shit.
Because they're still supporting the gig economy, and screwing over regular cabbies. Holy shit you're dense. If I punch you in the nose, then lovingly wipe away the blood from your face, you can't get mad at me because I'm a worker. I HAD to hurt you to survive and getting mad at me would just breed resentment LMAO.
And their organizing will still leave things WORSE then before. IT'S STILL GIG WORK ASSHAT, THEY'RE STILL SCABS
You are playing into porky's hands you daft shit.
You are a shill that is attempting to sell people on this bullshit concession Uber is trying to foist on the public. 'UBER NEEDS TO BE GONE FULL STOP. Those gig workers need to find a way to make money that doesn't take money out of the pockets of other workers.

Mason Phillips
Mason Phillips

I'm getting pissed that they fucked licensed unionised workers, to their end, and now have the audacity to demand those same rights and protections after further fucking the workers' cause as a whole by legitimising these scab tactics. Are these ride-share drivers pawns ofc, but they're certainly not unwitting dupes either… They made a conscious decision to engage…

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Caleb Baker
Caleb Baker

I made a regional English adaptation.

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Aiden Peterson
Aiden Peterson

hot words but no demographic breakdown of uber drivers.

Ian Allen
Ian Allen

What breakdown do you want exactly? Income? Because they don't publish income figures for people working a job because they get their income from that job.

Lincoln Hughes
Lincoln Hughes

They are literally proles
OK, let's say they are proles. And it's not paradoxical to say that a prole can also be a scab. These issues aren't really the question.

What we have here is scabs trying to form some sort of scab union, and then trying to get better conditions for being scabs by going on a scab strike. The question now is who is the bigger scab:
A. The scab unioniser supporting the scab strike or
B. the scab-strike-strike-breaker, the scabscab?
Am I supposed to hate the scabscab more than the scab? You might say, At least the scabs support some sort of strike now, so my vaguely leftish intuition tells me I should rather support them. But option B looks weird in two ways:
1. If the scabscabs try to form their own union-like thing, and then scabscabscabs appear, you will have to shift your sympathies again.
2. The scabscab hurts the scabs' rewards and so indirectly helps the group the original scabs undermine.
Scabbing against scabs is like stealing from a thief. When an object changes hands by a chain of acts of stealing, it is absurd to only point and yell at the latest thief. To have a coherent position, you must follow the chain and go to the earliest part that gets scabbed against and do what's necessary to fight against these scabs.

Jose Cruz
Jose Cruz

That's pretty dank.

Anthony Hill
Anthony Hill

Some kind of research would be nice. If income is unavailable NRS Social Grade is a fair proxy.
Given the inherent flexibility of uber it isn't entirely reasonable to say "they don't publish income figures for people working a job because they get their income from that job." either. Some drivers will make more than others.

Joseph Bailey
Joseph Bailey

what's uber's deal anyway
i thought their gimmick was that they just did 'ridesharing' and any middle class mother of 2 could take her corsa out to pick up drunkards to make extra money in a way that isn't actually efficient once you realise you're adding wear and tear to your car, but looking at their site you basically have to set yourself up in the private hire business to be a driver.

David Ramirez
David Ramirez

Those gig workers need to find a way to make money that doesn't take money out of the pockets of other workers.
This is the most fucking middle-class moralistic shit I have ever heard. Literally "just get another job" fucking tier. you think the fucks wanna be working for £3 an hour driving around drunk students for their only source of income. Holy shit, engage brain you fucking retard.
You're angry some prole got a job so they could make rent oh but your lifestylism decrees that it is the wrong kind of job boohoo fuck them when they openly and blatantly challenge capital because they hurt your feefees.
They aren't scabs though, so this entire post is redundant. Is an itinerant worker a scab? No, because nobody who knew shit about labour organising would say that, only some middle class lifestylist would: and it seems we have a lot of them in this thread.
That's still useless because by virtue of driving a cab they are still D.
Best you have is this from TFL: content.tfl.gov.uk/taxi-and-phv-demographic-stats.pdf

Like seriously, it is so obvious none of you have ever had to work in or with itinerant workers and just stick to your ivory tower moralism when it comes to the real world economy, Sure just cast down emerging militant proletarian movements as "scabs" because you don't like a fucking app, this is the true path to socialism.

Luis Sullivan
Luis Sullivan

business idea: apply class analysis
uber Driver who owns their own car = petit bourgish class enemy
uber Driver who does not own their car = prole exploited by class enemy

Wyatt Morris
Wyatt Morris

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Andrew Allen
Andrew Allen

Solution? Public owned transport!

Nolan Brooks
Nolan Brooks

NATIONALISE UBER

Carter Clark
Carter Clark

Seriously this is like attacking itinerant black workers in 20s America
Scabs are a race.
Is this the power of Hillary Clinton/Sakai thought?
Ask anyone who lives in a shitty part of a city, or even a semi rural area, getting an Uber ride can be a huge pain in the ass. Uber and their drivers are serving only the most profitable customers, and fucking everyone else over.
Seems the free unregulated market in general works that way. This ubershit reminds me of an article about providing shade in a city in the free-market style, resulting in some shade for those living in the rich areas.
How is a scab a scab. Is a scab really a scab? No, only a lifestylist would argue that. MaYbE yoU are the exPLoiTeR bY NOT beinG a ScAB!?
I see.

Landon Watson
Landon Watson

SOCIALIZE THE MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION

Camden Clark
Camden Clark

SOON

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Austin Jenkins
Austin Jenkins

Is this the power of Hillary Clinton/Sakai thought?
Most of the Labour Aristocracy at the time said so, so it fits. Also most private hire drivers are South Asian.
I see.
Nice strawman, you burning it on the 5th?

Joshua Kelly
Joshua Kelly

THEY COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS

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Grayson Myers
Grayson Myers

it fits
What fits?

Kevin Howard
Kevin Howard

The comparison.

Logan Ward
Logan Ward

Being against scabs in Britain is racism because you wave your arms and stammer about something that happened in America a hundred years ago?

Jaxson Cruz
Jaxson Cruz

You sound uneducated on Labour History lol, also I've yet to see anyone reply to my post about what framing "precariat" as having no revolutionary potential means for any kind of communist movement

Brandon Perez
Brandon Perez

A huge proportion of Cab Drivers in the UK are literally definitionally not Proletarian, yet Uber drivers are receiving stigma and all being lumped together into one group against a group that contains Proletarians, Labour Aristocrats and even some Petit-Bourgeois. Can we have a real class analysis here instead of Workerism?

Noah Brooks
Noah Brooks

They are not Scabs
I've tried to explain that to you but you're too thick to see it. But sure, the Dockers in Liverpool were Scabs because they worked on zero hours amirite?

Justin Reed
Justin Reed

dockers in liverpool weren't taking business from equivalent unionised dockworkers

Aiden Stewart
Aiden Stewart

You are ignorant and too uneducated to understand my very deep and very socialist thoughts as they pertain to this topical cluster and these thoughts have lead me to the point of supporting scabs for very logical reasons indeed (too deep for you).

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James Edwards
James Edwards

"Taking business" holy shit you are fully brought into liberal bourgeois moralism. Critically support MOM AND POP STORES.
shouting "scabsacbascsabcasb" is a valid arguement in the first place.

Nathan Bailey
Nathan Bailey

But what if I like don't see myself as a scab like I don't like I don't like you know like I don't want that man I'm like NO! this is not what I want to be called so I don't feel like that in my soul like maybe I'm doing the scab thing right now maybe I have been doing it last week maybe I'm like doing it all the time – doesn't mean that I feel like I said I don't identify as that. So. I think like we should use another word for me than scab and since I use another word to refer to myself I can't be male or a scab when I don't use these words myself okay.

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Robert Thomas
Robert Thomas

У вас есть аргумент?

Aiden Gray
Aiden Gray

Sorry I don't speak Welsh.

Jacob Allen
Jacob Allen

У вас есть аргумент?
but we're the lifestylists, mfw…

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Ayden Perry
Ayden Perry

I think the lad screeching scab was a bit too quick to imply he was being called racist, when no-one mentioned anything other than a historical example about americans that had class dynamics. I wonder if you broke down the ethnicities of Uber drivers whether he'd change his tune? rlly makes you think

Austin Morales
Austin Morales

I think the lad screeching scab was a bit too quick to imply he was being called racist
Earlier in the thread:
Seriously this is like attacking itinerant black workers in 20s America because the local whites were already unionised.

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Nolan Cooper
Nolan Cooper

<Seriously this is like attacking itinerant black workers in 20s America because the local whites were already unionised.
In the 1920s they were, the mainstream unions rejected unionising them because they were "scabs".

Dylan Gomez
Dylan Gomez

Also to all the people saying Uber drivers are scabs or petit-bourgeois or whatever: are Ubereats riders that too?

Blake White
Blake White

I wonder if you broke down the ethnicities of Uber drivers whether he'd change his tune
"Nobody is racebaiting here but I wonder whether you'd have a different opinion about the scabs if I informed you about the ethnic distribution within the scab group, which is something you don't seem to know or care about much."
I admit I don't know much about the ethnic distribution of these scabs. I'm not very efficient at that being-racist thing. But don't let that get in the way of your neoliberal talking points with a progressive paintjob.

Let's tell it like it is: Staying within regulations costs money. Uber has a competitive advantage by using a legal loophole that prevents them from having costs that standard taxi operators have by following the regulations. Closing the loophole will destroy Uber because the loophole is the only reason why Uber exists as a business.

Carson Reed
Carson Reed

the mainstream unions rejected unionising them because they were "scabs".
And it was wrong for them to do that because unionising them would have made the playing field level… We, or rather I specifically, reject their unionising precisely because they ==are== still operating as scabs, but want to protect their place in a field where they actively collaborate with porky to drive,no pun intended, down real wages of all drivers especially the licensed one.

Josiah Brooks
Josiah Brooks

I was shitposting to bait lol, my actual concerns with this conversation are:
and
I'm not going to argue against you semantically but by the strict definition of the word they're not scabbing. Taxi driving literally isn't a proletarianized job, there are various types of labour arrangements within the field, black cabbies aren't proletarian, they're almost the textbook definition of Labour Aristocracy and minicab drivers can be petit-bourgeois. What I'm asking for here is more nuance, and where we're drawing lines when it comes to "precariat". Again, Class Analysis from a much broader perspective because this is going to be one of the biggest challenges to organizing British Workers in the coming years.

Julian Sanders
Julian Sanders

If Taxi drivers can't be proletarian then why was A LABOUR COUNCIL, A LABOUR COUNCIL, HIRING TAXIS TO SCUTTLE ROUND A CITY?

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Nathan Campbell
Nathan Campbell

Made a new thread, spelled Rick Stein wrong. Blame the booze. Forgive me

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Jeremiah Perry
Jeremiah Perry

New thread here: 2883514
fuck I'm retarded atm

Aaron Campbell
Aaron Campbell

I know you're memeing lad, but just in case someone fucking says that I am saying Taxi Drivers aren't proles, I'm saying that the job itself isn't widely proletarianized, as in, there is a significant portion of Taxi Drivers who are not Proletarian. In fact, pretty much every other service sector transport job is MORE proletarian than Taxi driving.

Liam Robinson
Liam Robinson

2883515
There you go

Hunter Mitchell
Hunter Mitchell

tfw I'm an idiot
I could've sworn it was three to crosslink.

James Smith
James Smith

Gay

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