Sabotage Praxis

Alright guys, this is something I've been thinking about for too long now. Inb4 vanned, go away FBI, etc. Give me your actual critique.

It seems very clear that the revolutionary movement in the US is currently both at a very important point with the American empire weakening even as it threatens to engage in military imperialism once again, but also at a bit of a loss as how to counter this or build our own setup. From this, I'm going to suggest a route for the hardline, serious left in the US to take serious action that directly hampers imperialist actions across the globe.

First, I am going to make the general statement that the development of anti-imperialist global forces is more important than that of maintaining parts of the US, both in terms of people and in terms of what material is recoverable by socialists In The Future.

Second, we are going to have to look at a very simple fact: The government forces that be are currently just not threatened by widespread mas movement as they worry about smaller individual acts. It would be very convenient if the US government was prone to being attacked by an organized mass movement, but they have a lot of resources and broad movements like attempting a vanguard are flat out more prone to infiltration and direct combatting than smaller groups.

As such, I am going to propose that we begin work against the US government for the sake of boosting anti-imperialism efforts in the form of small, loosely organized, decentralized groups that do significant damage to specific important targets across the nation for the sake of damaging the country's capacity to perform imperial actions. And we do this not by attacking the fist of the military but by going for the heart that powers it all.

In this manner, I propose sabotaging American infrastructure in the form of power (electricity especially), transportation, and communications. Insurgent groups can very, very easily get large quantities of thermite from the reclamation of literally scrap aluminum and iron rust, literal garbage that litters every single road in the entirety of the US, refined slightly, ground to powder, and packaged. Put into sacks to be used and given a brief spraypainting to hide them on deployment. We then hit vital points of infrastructure along areas of major industrial production, noting the primary areas that fuel the MIC such as metals, chemicals, some heavy industrial areas, but also minor important industries that feed other industries such as the production of simple things like cardboard or wooden pallets that get used for shipping.

From there, we can target railroad lines, bridges, power pylons, transformers, communication tower guy wires, you name it, anything that would knock out production in the area and take significant time to repair; the further it is from any kind of road to prevent access by repair crew, the better, it means it'll take longer to knock it out. Usefully, this only requires a few dedicated, interested people per strike, and the actual destructive charges can be set with modern digital timers in weatherproof, camouflaged bags to go off months in advance for the sake of leaving or to create a wider spread attack. This is on top of the fact that the US economy is currently struggling just to make it past the damages from 2018 without collapsing in on itself again.

I do not propose that this is the insurrectionary path to revolution
I am proposing that this can be used to soften up the US government's hedgemony on power by disruption of production and economy on a national scale to allow for other anti-imperialist powers to catch a break while the US reels to give ourselves even a bit of breathing room against the dying empire so that we can hope to start making victories again in the future.

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Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1902/sep/01.htm
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1911/11/tia09.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=noEetsQzy6U
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Terrorism is devoid from the masses. You will alienate popular support and will rile up right wing elements of the country to effectively quash any consideration of any mass movement to oppose imperialism. That is ultimately the necesity to challenge the entrenched cultural and state policy. Now is not the time for anything of that sort.

There is no fucking capacity for a mass movement right now.
The entire point of sabotage by small groups is that they are small groups who do not need mass support to affect output and that america is an absolutely enormous country that can not afford to cover its entire infrastructure in protection or surveillance to prevent further sabotage.

Incoherent, weak and badly organised

Spot on.
Here is a relevant text by Lenin:
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1902/sep/01.htm [Revolutionary Adventurism]
Another by the Original Trot himself:
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1911/11/tia09.htm [Why Marxists Oppose Individual Terrorism]

Ooo, is it time to "break bad"?

Go and read those.

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Keep sabotaging with your incoherent, weak and badly organised (>>2885517) group. Your group would have practically zero support. Remember guerrilla is to the masses as fishes are to the ocean. The OP demonstrates zero knowledge of how actual guerrilla warfare (incl. the sabotages) work.

So what's your solution? Sit and watch until tens of millions drop dead from capitalist policies?

Why are you insistent on there being only two possibilities:
1. Armchair-ism
2. Sabotages and terrorism (at least to the bourgeoisie) without popular support.

I will not engage in further discussion though, have a good day.

All terrorism is 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧government🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 sponsored.

Once you finally figure out what the brain does with the light you're going to understand why you can't get there without the Christians.

Any radical movement will be terrorism to the Bourgeoisie. We're not going to ever get "popular support" for any "mass movement" so what's the fucking point anyway.

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Holy fuck you guys are genuinely retarded.
I am not advocating this as a method of completely overthrowing capitalism
I am not advocating this as a method of completely overthrowing capitalism
I am not advocating this as a method of completely overthrowing capitalism

I am pointing out that the US is currently the dominant force for imperialism in the world, that they are currently capable of causing considerable damage to anti-imperialist entities across the planet, and that we are currently without the capacity to organize any significant anti-imperialist mass movement inside the US to attempt to stop it, but we are capable of sabotaging the war efforts to no small extent by damaging production as individuals, which they have very little capability to stop.

Pointing out that this does not help us create revolutionary movement domestically
does not disprove the reason for doing this
because we are not looking at "how do we even begin capturing states", we are asking "how do we prevent reactionaries from smashing what little has been gained against them". The US is a dying empire attempting to hold onto its power to the bitter end and right now,
==it is important that we simply help end the US' global hegemony and survive with literally anything intact=

And again.
The United States is currently in the middle of attempting to put pieces into place to begin military acts against Iran and Venezuela.

Do you imagine that if the forces of the UK and US were actually about to bring to bear enough forces to smash the USSR before it was a superpower that Lenin would have told British and Americans that they shouldn't attempt to sabotage the war efforts?

Nah man, only the third world needs to fight. We just need to sit back and watch because we can't get any mass movement and a party to back us.
Hurr durr

We could at some point get a mass movement going. The important point is
>reactionary violence is preparing itself, today
>we do not have the capacity to create a mass movement to counter it, today

Very poor optics. We shouldn't give the right anything to smear us with.

The right wing is already attempting to commit reactionary violence against anyone even slightly further left than them, or even against those who simply hold resources that they want. On an international scale the optics aren't going to be as important as the weakened position of power.

the point isn't that you're not overthrowing capitalism, it's that you're directly threatening the possibility for a mass movement in the future (or even milquetoast socdems), scaring the working class and enabling violence against leftists by fucking up domestic infrastructure that is mostly irrelevant in the global power struggle.
you'll also have a very hard time trying to get a significant enough amount of people spread all over the US to commit jihad, not to mention actually succeed. it only takes a few people to infiltrate your little "small, loosely organized decentralized groups" and arrest everyone else whenever they try to do anything
the weathermen failed and so will you if you try

We're already in the middle of anti-war and anti-intervention sentiment growing and the government continuing to attempt to do exactly that despite people not wanting it. Are you arguing that people who do not want imperialist wars are going to be scared by you making it harder to do imperialist wars by not even harming anyone, but just disabling factories literally producing weapons for warfare?

The exact point of having decentralized, largely unaffiliated groups is exactly that they are not going to have information on one another and that infiltrating a group of 5 people is actually not as easy as going for a couple dozen people who organize openly. So what if I get arrested, there's still going to be other groups in other areas that I have no information on and who are not going to lose anything just because I'm imprisoned. I could do it myself with no actual support considering the minimal manpower required for each act, and just continue to advocate for it to happen by others. Are you going to propose that the feds are able to "infiltrate" a group of one?

Yeah, you're right, landlords and industrial capitalists are just role models for the US prolétariat and fucking with their property and tools of war will just get the domestic workers against us.
Actually no, those people are destined to be bootlickers and will never be our comrades in the first place. the true revolutionary agent will be the ones invigorated that they finally see that they could do something to better their lot in life by setting the example for them. The people need motivation not whissy wussy talk labour value and profit and hope they join a union in a decade or so. they need action to encourage more action. The real thing is not whether they believe that socialism is the way forward is them acting to fuck their boss, their landlord, their corrupt politicians because of one reason or another. Fight against the Machine, don't let it dictate your death terms.

Yes, you're right, we should let the thin blue liners make swiss cheese out of us despite complying to do the hokypoky for if we just do what the cops say they won't put us down.

This isn't a question of advocacy for direct action versus pushing people to mass movement. We must continue to push the masses towards bigger amounts of widespread, organized movement to eventually overthrow and overcome capitalism. The question here is

Who says that an explicitly 'left' organization is going to carry this out?

This sounds like a job for =nazbol gang=

Okay, put simply:
1. What mass movement in the US? The US police forces have done a very effective job dispersing and infiltrating attempts to create any kind of broad leftwing organization for over half a century now.
2. What are American leftists to do about the immediate threat of increased imperial violence abroad?

I will drop the idea if you can start giving explanation on some very basic things that aren't generic handwaving about the eventual formation of some vague, organized mass movement without discussing avoiding collapse to the issues that have plagued this issue for quite some time.

if marx saw how things are today, he wouldnt mind getting his hands a little dirty.

Yes, OP, your idea would work. Infrastructure is incredibly simple but nobody bothers to learn it. A grounding wire, shovel, rubber-handled bolt cutters, and a truck could shut down an entire power grid by snipping major power lines in the center and re-burying them, doing in a night what will take a week to diagnose. If you kept doing it and got away with it, you could keep the entirety of all infrastructure disabled for maddening lengths of time. You can turn on and off water with little hex keys, you can re-enable and disable power to individual houses with nothing more than an easy to google local regulations book. However, such an effort is not without consequences. You're likely to get caught after a while and it's no permanant fix. but, if all hell breaks loose such as riots or everyone's doing it, might be a good plan to add to the chaos. I personally have quite a few plans in my back pocket.

lol don't

I mean, Neo-Nazis are shooting power lines and causing fires. You have Patriot Prayer with Sniper Rifles in Portland against people who are AGAINST FASCISM. You have Neo-Nazis shooting up schools and etc.

Be the voice of reason.

Also this. All terrorism is done by Feds.

Take a look at the ATF agent Bernard Butkovich with the Klan and Nazi group that perpetrated the Greensboro massacre; the role of Ed Dawson (who led the Nazi & Klan caravan in Greensboro) as an FBI informant; the CIA background of the foreman of the jury that acquitted the Nazis & Klansmen of the Greensboro massacre; the influence of the abortive Klan-Nazi Domenican coup attempt in setting the stage for Domenica’s participation in the U.S.-led invasion of Grenada; FBI informant Gary Thomas Rowe’s role in the slaying of civil rights activist Viola Liuzzo.

Yeah that's part of what i'm thinking. It's not going to take anything down in itself. However it can damage and weaken the forces arming reaction against anti-imperialist states, lessening the damage they can do as the US continues to crumble.

I do believe that there's going to be serious opportunity for some bigger, more aggressive movements in the not TOO distant future, even in the US, but it's very clear that the US has no intent of sinking without dragging as much of the left down as they can.


Nigga I am not arguing for shooting up schools. I'm talking about depowering factories making tanks and drones and the further industries that feed and service them.

Do you not see any difference in "gun down people" and "force the closure of a weapons factory for a month"?

Yes I agree, if you want my advice this is what I've been doing: Joining local RACES and rescue teams, doing medical training, exercising with martial arts, and studying a second language. I think it's better to focus on sustainable survivability that is beyond the system rather than taking down the system. Remember, we're the backbone of this country and if we get the fuck out it's spaghetti, they can only trap you if you're dependent on them. Become as independent as possible and then you won't have to worry about what happens.

Anarchists are clueless. If you want to destroy the western imperial countries you should just support neoliberlism. Austerity, welfare cuts, privatization of infrastructure etc. does a lot more and permanent damage to the first world than you smashies LARPing as the RAF ever could hope to. Look at what the right-wing economic policy did to Greece, this is what is coming fo the west anyway, but fell free to accelerate it.

meanwhile

and

Fuck look at the 6 Special Forces guys that were at the Mexican border and disarmed by Mexican troops and now you have Fox News blasting about it.

Then replace destroying with "disruption of production and economy on a national scale" you pedant.

The point of this is not to just "wreck this stuff" it's a specific tactic with a specific goal based on events that are currently transpiring.

How will sabotaging civil infrastructure help Maduro? The military has high security and redundancy and will always be prioritized if there is some shortage. You won't hurt the supremacy of American financial institutions either.

Because the military is still dependent on the continued function of civilian infrastructure. They do not have the entire production line secure and, frankly, couldn't.

???


I suppose there is a disconnect between you, linuxposter, and skeptics as I am sure detractors wanted to criticize this plan on the context of opposing state power, rather than anything to do with revolution (although it still applies since to reach revolution, the bourgeois state must be challenged.) Your conspiratorial approach to opposing the state has been proven to be absolutely powerless historically (what r u, a Blanquist?). Unless there is a mass movement where one can utilize its momentum to legitimize the violence against entrenched media and cultural hegemony, your decentralized groups of saboteurs will be expunged from society in both your reputation and life, the fallout of which will affect public dialogue against imperialism as your actions will act as a propaganda in this political climate. Perhaps your plan could work if US domestic stability wasn't so strong, but "adding to the chaos" as one user stated is not possible without: you guessed it, a mass movement. I have no doubt that one will appear in opposition to imperialist advances, but a radical character must be instilled by anti-imperialist pundits to allow for the "chaos" necessary.

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Okay, so again, I am going to refer to the question I asked of this response here before you even made it.

And I do want to point out, again, as I've said multiple times:
I unequivocally support the broader development and usage of a mass movement as a means of actually foiling the state and recognize its absolute necessity for overcoming the capitalist state's power.

What I want to know of the marxists who always come back to this point is, what are we doing in the meantime while the reactionaries are busy committing acts of violence against extant socialist groups and forces across the globe?

This just reads like Siege but for leftists

Perhaps I should've been more clear


There is already a semblance of this mass movement albeit in a primitive form. As time goes on it will grow stronger, but we can't just count on that to happen. There are organizations and sentiment within the population that can be counted and seized upon to help foster such opposition. That is what leftists should do. We should try and organize institutions to confront the imperialist war machine. Mass movement doesn't necessarily mean a organization. An organization might arise from a mass movement, but a better example for what I mean is the anti-war movement during the Vietnam War.

While I read the entirety of your post it would affect the general population, those are part of public services. A power outage and very high communications latency sucks and its pretty much a glowie and glowie proxy thing to do.

First world revolutionary potential is in the unemployed who will grow ever larger as cheap labor is importer and automation continues to improve. The goal is to spread knowledge and organize. Stalin said what is new is what has strength, what is will die. You must focus on the up and coming, and up and coming is a wave of mass unemployment in the next few decades. Developing strategies for this time is the most optimal aproach.

With this in mind, such actions are actually counterproductive, you want to basically accelerate the US into the situation where overproduction causes unemployment.

I'm rather skeptical of the unemployment narrative. Increased labor productivity in manufacturing just shifts labor towards service work.

The US is already at 23% unemployment and growing.
Services only work as long as there are those with money to serve.

I already brought this up in an earlier thread and a few other posts on other threads about workers coops producing lightweight capital for the sake of automating the many, many jobs in manufacture that don't really need to be for by hand. I'm working in a factory right now and ice pointed out you could eliminate a sizable number of jobs by just making automated cardboard box folders and tapers.

This thread has left out the easiest praxis: arson.

Set fire to all the grain farms and start a famine. This will spark more petty crime and insurrection.

The problem with this is the feds already have a file on everyone who posts here. Evading LE would be incredibly difficult, unless there is an easy way to get a whole new identity like Jessie and Walt did in Breaking Bad

Except that sabotaging specific production facilities is far less likely to turn the populace against you. A lot of people who are not happy with the government dragging the country to war, even without being radicals, may support you for just hitting infrastructure making war possible while not affecting as much of the country directly.

Of course when it starts hitting people's pocketbooks they might have to start really thinking about what that wealth means.

If you're going to commit acts of sabotage, how about instead of going after public telecommunication, an act that will piss off regular people and make them unsympathetic to your cause, go to Walstreet or Washington and find ways to fuck with the real motherfuckers that could be taken down a few notches. If your goal is to accelerate the collapse, I will have you know that our stock market is a highly delicate thing, and that sabotaging power / communication there will be far more devastating than doing it anywhere else.

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So why avoid it

What's with this talk that sabotage will make people hate the left? Just literally don't get yourself caught or say it was for a leftist purpose you idiot lol

Reminder to everybody that Ad Nauseam exists. It's an ad blocker that simulates clicking on ads. Rather than simply blocking ads (although from your perspective that's what it does), it also feeds junk data to the advertiser. Be warned, however, that using it is technically categorized as "economic terrorism" and thus illegal and banned from multiple browsers.

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I saw a thread on Zig Forums about that a long time ago. Apparently, Google and co. detect such traffic and they get a refund. Hardly worth it if at all, unless you got a refutation.

May not be much, but if that's true it means they have to do more work on their end. You're going to block ads anyway most likely. Not like Trump is about to drone strike people on Google's behalf for fucking with advertisements.

I really am specifically talking about only targeting infrastructures that directly promote and are used for imperialism for this specific reason.
That's not a bad idea though in general.

A lot of people think it's "jewed" because it's based in Tel Aviv.
My only question is why haven't people stolen its software and created clones or something?

Easier said than done. This isn't the 19th century when you could evade the state just by being smart and careful.

1. Light the paper
2. Throw it
3. Get out
Also don't wear your usual. Not all that hard.
youtube.com/watch?v=noEetsQzy6U

I wish these idpol fucks would just turn right wing and bring take their pettiness with them. Let them tear apart the other side for a change.

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Whoops, wrong thread. But still, fuck IDpol.

I would suggest being even more specific. Target the prison industrial complex and the corporations most responsible for greenhouse gas emissions. This is a terrible place to organize due to LE snooping. (Thanks for the unwanted attention, Zig Forums shooters.) So maybe connect with local anarchist or Earth First! peeps.

What is that?
Also where are you supposed to find anarchist or Earth First!?

They already are right wing. "White privilege" as a concept is literally "white supremacy is good for white people" and when they tell people about it they are encouraging anybody who takes them seriously to support racism because they believe it's in their self-interest.

Law Enforcement.

Also where are you supposed to find anarchist or Earth First!?
If you live near a major city there are probably anarchist bookfairs or radical bookstores. Keep an eye out for open calls to antifa protests or the like. You'll have to mingle and get to know people, then you'll get invited into their Signal groups and you'll meet the crazies willing to do the dirt faster then you think. Practice good opsec and be strategic.

If you live in a small town you may have to do monkey wrenching on your own.

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lmao imagine if someone actually did this

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We need an illegalism megathread. Or a dark net website that's not so easily tracked

Good luck with that, if it was really that 'illegal' you wouldn't be hearing about it here. Your best bet is piracy and the odd edgy parazite volume.