With the release of new HBO mini-series 'Chernobyl' there have been a lot of threats on it on /tv/. As expected there have been a lot of anti-Soviet and anti socialist propaganda talking about how Soviets forced thousands of people to work for free and that thousands have perished because of Soviet evilness or incompetence. People also put emphasis on Soviet propaganda completely ignoring the tragedy, but rather focusing on what was happening in US.
On the other hand there are also sources that state that 'only' 40 people had died, that evacuation went smoothly and things were professionally fixed; as much as possibly. There are also sources that state that 25,000 Ukrainian, Byelorussian and Russian victims of Chernobyl were threated in Cuba. What's the truth, thought?
Are you really putting any value in the words of halfchan children/fascists?
Jordan Diaz
Obviously I don't, but I want some information and sources to debunk moot's kids.
Hunter Lewis
When capitalists destroy the entire ecosystem and potentially the entire human race goes extinct it's not bad but when the Soviets fuck up a nuclear reactor after decades of technological achievements that went off without a hitch it's evil
Alexander Phillips
oil porky is rubbing his hands
Kevin Lopez
Daily reminder that nuclear energy is the safest form of energy. archive.fo/LbxE4
You summarized it easily enough. It's just typical anti-sovet tripe cooked up by the Baltics.
Blake Kelly
M-L's are just butt hurt that their twisted system created the worst nuclear disaster on this planet, and scared every single nation out of nuclear power by their incompetancy. But then again what can you expect out of the soviet union's "scientific socialism?"
The problem with the Chernobyl incident was how poorly it was handled by the state apparatus, with the general delayed reaction, for example the delayed evacuation of pripyat.
Allot of the stuff in the show is ahistorical though and there is some really dumb preachy stuff added in. Good luck trying to show anyone some of the obvious bias behind some of the depictions though, considering the show is litterally about Soviets doing damage control (literal and figurative) and they will obviously think you're doing the same.
Ryder Stewart
you don't know what scientific socialism is, it's scientific in regards to how it analyses society, not literally "socialism, in the field of sciences" you fucking ninny. also "muh lysenko" isn't an argument considering he didn't even have any influence by the 50s.
Robert King
This youtube channel has got the best videos on Chernobyl liquidation (in Russian). Some of the videos have English subtitles youtube.com/watch?v=u0bhLEYl50E
Chase Kelly
I remember /tv/ (along with /mu/) being pretty good boards with Zig Forumsfags being called out to go back to their containment boards more so than any other boards.
Christian Reyes
oh wow, now that's some pretty fucking bad choices you have there mate
Kayden Nelson
it was handled rather well for a sudden situation. evacuation was done very quickly as it was, however the situation was made problematic with the fact that the reason and size of the accident had yet to be affirmed. People in ex-soviet states have sort of caught on that blatant depictions of soviet untermensch oppressing people aren't really being bought by Easterners, so they changed it up to have more subdued anti-sovietism.
Nicholas Wilson
Reminder that's no graphite, anyone claiming to have seen graphite is delusional and should report to the infirmary immediately
Liam Cruz
tbh the central government and military in the show is actually competent and the big problems come from the local level
Jacob Ross
It is all fiction. From the reactor core, to the KGB guy closing down the town, the female whisperer network. It's like a series of bad Soviet jokes.
It's literal capitalist, anti-socialist propaganda. They used some names, and events to create a completely fictional show that shows 'socialism' and 'communism' as this laughably oppressive system.
Some really ridiculous stuff, like the selection of the three technicians to go down, the 400 ruble /year stipend when in the previous scene they were like "they'll die in a week". lol
Literally everything in the show is wrong. It's bad.
Oliver Barnes
...
Asher Turner
It's real. There are people who actually live there despite radioactivity..
Watched the first episode, it's completely anti-Soviet. The whole thing starts in grey buildings in the dark, instead of showing the admittedly cool looking town of Prypriat, everybody is an incompetent asshole who tries to shift blame to someone else, and when one guy midly suggests a catastrophe happened he gets shot down by a comic book villian gerontocrat with a walking stick (!) wo tells them to serve the state and have faith in the state, don't allow people to leave and tell them that they should put their minds to their labour when they ask uncomfortable questions. Basically portraying socialism as when you worship the state as a god in some Orwellian dystopia.
I know it was the Gorbachev era, but it's completely hyperbolic.
Nathaniel Jackson
I thought that was based though. Also, I don’t see how the blame shifting is inherently anti-soviet. People will interpret it as such, but it’s also universal that people in organizations will shift the blame onto someone else to avoid responsibility. People under capitalism do this all the time. I took the dylatov’s spergout to be an individual loss of nerves at the very start as a normal human response. What was supposed to be a routine day within a split second acclerated into a 13/10 problem that he just couldn’t or wasn’t willing to countenance because the responsibility was too great. Also his denial has a comic aspect to it, which is why /tv/ made a meme out of him immediately (“3.6 roentgens” “you’re delusional, go to infirmary”)
Jose Clark
It was a parody of Soviet identity, nobody in the USSR preached the divinity of the state or that people can't ask questions but must be put to labour while earning frenetic applause. Yet it isn't portrayed the same way in movies that play in capitalism, in movies about catastophies in capitalism it's always some crazy individual screwing things up while here it's portrayed by collective incompetence born out of political hierarchies.
Ayden Torres
Claim not supported by your article. Where is the comparison to wind, solar, or other forms of renewable power?
give me a link to watch it, wanna see what this shit is about
Ayden Fisher
It was obviously done to show that the leadership will sacrifice its people, while making promises they have no reason of fulfilling.
Remember the worker going "You want us to die for 400 rubles?!"
In reality, the three people who went to release the valves were volounteers, who knew it had to be done. Two are still alive today, with one working in nuclear energy still. Third one died in the 90s.
Bentley Roberts
Chernobyl is fascist propaganda on par with Nazi films like "GPU"
Juan James
I had such high hopes and was really enjoying the aesthetic of this show.
[spoiler]Legasov recanted before his death, in interviews made possible by the rapid progress of Mikhail Gorbachev’s perestroika. In “Chernobyl,” however, Mazin puts Legasov on the witness stand at the trial and, in a stroke of pure fantasy, has him boldly denounce Soviet corner-cutting and secrecy, after which he’s hauled into a back room by the K.G.B.
The transformation of Legasov into a daring whistle-blower and martyr, complete with a courtroom apotheosis out of “To Kill a Mockingbird,” is just one instance of the show’s propensity toward Hollywood inflation — to show us things that didn’t happen. [/spoiler]
Jeremiah Stewart
How do I format my text? spoiler or spoiler = spoiler italics = italics bold = bold underline = underline ==RED TEXT== = RED TEXT (must be on the same line) shit site
I don't understand what are you trying to say?Please explain what does this mean?
Samuel Clark
What sarcophagus?
Ayden Thompson
Anti-Russian Ukranian coal bureaucrats that were involved in Chernobyl had headquarters that were located in Donetsk and there are notes from scientists implicating them in mismanagement of information and possible sabotage. After the fourth reactor was installed Chernobyl was the largest power station in the world and had capability of getting all of eastern Europe completely off of coal was threatening the miners unions. With the collapse of the USSR and subsequent privatization certain individuals became the owners of the entire energy sector and started to shut down nuclear and return to coal. In 2000 the other three reactors were shut down completely and Ukraine was entirely on coal again for the first time in almost 50 years. The same year a corporation was set up to manage assets and now it is the biggest company in the country. In 2014 they started to restructure there management and integrate into the European economy there was a color revolution and a pro NATO/US puppet was installed, neo-nazi uprisings started and the media began running red bait about the ghost of the USSR imperializing freedom loving. In 2017 DTEK which I'm assuming is a child of Donetsk Energo and therefore SCM lost its largest asset to Russia. Literally months later HBO announces this new Chernobyl documentary.
You don't even have to say the USSR did nothing wrong to see this is propaganda.
Josiah Perez
But Donetsk is in the Donetsk People's Republic which is Russia aligned? If they were mad at Russia why would they still be headquartered there?
Lincoln Smith
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbass Euromaidan/2014 revolution are commonly claimed to be Soros color revolutions(whatever). They were pro-EU Ukrainian Nationalists based in Kiev that are aligned with Private/Corporate EU money, like the energy sector. Keiv is the Capital and in the north but the the headquarters for the largest energy company are in Donetsk. The coal mines and power plants are all in the south(map related). After the pro-EU revolution in 2014, pro-Russian seperatists in Donbass decided they wanted to leave Ukraine not to be exploited by the IMF and corporations in Kiev. In 2017 Kiev lost direct control of the corporate headquarters for DTEK to Russia. "Dontekhenergo" was the Donetsk mining company whos management involved with the Chernobyl test whos assets I suspect became owned by DTEK/SCM. The founder of SCM is working with the President of Ukraine and donated to the Chernobyl.
tl;dr - material conditions: thats where the coal is
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbasenergo The company was established in 1995 as a result of restructuring of the Ukrainian power sector.[1] It owns and operates power stations in Slovyansk (880 MW) and Starobesheve (1,685 MW), Donetsk Oblast.
annones what about nuclear waste, it is a problemo? or just meme?
Cooper Garcia
nice trips. nuclear waste isn't a massive problem, the bigger issue was that prior to more precise environmental studies, both the USA and USSR were slightly lax in Nuclear Waste disposal, dumping in remote, closed off places prior to learning the effects. Modern knowledge and technology should essentially make this a total non-issue.
Henry Kelly
The US has no long term storage plan (well, there is one but they stopped acting on it decades ago). Most nuclear waste is stored in short term (and often over filled) storage tanks on each site.
Isaac Sanders
He was mudreded? By whom and why?
Josiah Moore
So why would Ukranian and Lithuanian energy companies fund this series?
Kevin Nelson
That's cause the USA doesn't give a fuck, they commonly use Depleted Uranium for warheads, something the USSR rarely did.
Because they can whip up a juicy anti-soviet propaganda piece that will give them Western sympathy for their current fascist juntas.
William Ramirez
honestly amazing how a little Zig Forums detective work exceeds Zig Forums's dozens of paranoid 'redpill threads'
Michael Smith
Today I learned that to protect human lives Soviets tried to use robots to clean up Chernobyl area. Unfortunetly the technology was not yet advanced enought so Soviets had to send in human workers.
It took them four episodes, but they finaly namedroped holodomor and Stalin.
Jaxon Howard
Yeah, the Holodomor woman in the barn scene was really on the nose. "German soldiers… Russian soldiers…" basically equating Soviets and Nazis. And then of course the Holodomor.
Robert Lopez
I fucking knew it. Honestly a far better series based around chernobyl (although scifi) is the first season of a Russian series, and its pretty dumb. ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Чернобыль._Зона_отчуждения
I think it went even further. Shes 8 lives through both wars and occupations and the worst of everything and what finally broke her was soviets, not nazis. also a subtle "if you had a cow you were a kulak" the milk etc.
I don't like Dyatlov but if you listen to the podcast the director says that he didn't want to put in a Dyatlov flashback scene to his kid dying at the other nuke plant in siberia because they don't know for sure what was going on in his head and didn't want to suggest he was personally responsible because he was trying to prove he was stronger than the radiation that killed his kid.
then go in with a fictional composite character interviewing him being a gruff asshole heavily implying exactly the same fucking thing.
Director mentioned that where they shot in Lithuania has modern windows but he wasn't worried about historical consistency in that regard. What they never mention is that all the apartments weren't run down with chipped paint and weeds in the cracks right after it was built ??? everyones houses are dirty with stains on the walls wtf
the fourth episode titled for the happiness of all mankind and they reference it in a shot of an old tattered banner outside a run down building with the doors falling of - a 50 year old buildings.
the soundtrack which is also discussed on the podcast is reminiscent of stalker or horror films, no music. director suggests that they didn't want emotional music to manipulate the audience but they uses the squeaky brake soundbite right out of stalker when trucks pull up to stop and constantly manipulates you with clanking metal scraping horror background
no one is eating anything except old sausage and shitty bread. vodka and cigarettes everyhere. all the managers are overweight while all the workers are skinny. they dramatize killing dogs and put a kid doing it who isn't a soldier showing how soviets turn children into emotionless machines.
people on the roof are shown to be stumbling and incompetent for no reason
Im very
Scherbina saying that the only thing he does what he does is not to get a bullet in the head, the whole discussion of Vienna. This entire series is set up to reinforce the idea that the soviet union was morally evil
I didn't hate this character until this line. Now I feel like all the people getting pissed that shes a woman are being baited by an astroturf campaign to discredit actual criticism of fictional lines like this.
They're just trying to get a certain idea of a police state / totalitarianism into people's heads, so people can look around them and think "well, I'm not being oppressed cause they're not using soldiers in the streets to make me do things".
I hate how effective this is. It's so easy to make exploitation and oppression invisible to the masses, heck they will even defend those who are fucking them over.
Ayden Smith
...
Aaron Smith
Only 23 percent said they had a better life now. More goods in shops, open borders and better cultural offer are considered the biggest successes of the system that was installed after 1989. Nine-in-ten are of the view that much better conditions for corruption arose after 1989. Some two-thirds of those polled said leading politicians were less corrupt under the Communist regime than now. Some 56 percent said Czech democracy was not working comparably with democracies in advanced countries. The opposite view is held by 44 percent of Czechs. On the other hand, the voucher privatisation, the worsening of human relations and work of the civil service are its biggest flaws, most Czechs said. [end excerpt] * "Former Czech Dissident, Now Against the West: Freest Under Czech Communism!" (2014-10-24, counterpunch.org) [archive.is/1x5OJ], intro and thirteen photos (2014-10-26, popularresistance.org) [archive.is/PZRPF]
Anyone seen the Ukrainian film Holod 33? Pic related, translated it says
Studio "Earth" expresses gratitude to entrepreneurs, state cooperative and civil organizations, as well as thousands of Ukrainians and compatriots in the United States, for material and moral help in creating the film.
forgot to add the fact that their military uses Depleted Uranium ammunition that irradiates its troops as well as the enemy fired upon, and the left-overs from the ammunition/shells/penetrative rods cause radiation poisoning in foreign civilians and further on creates birth defects. Also you could add how they literally sprayed their own troops with Agent Orange because they couldn't care less who got hit as long as they cleared the forest.
The fucking Empire in Star Wars was less evil than this.
Also that tweet man; historical nuclear catastrophes apparently aren't on par with mass lead poisonings.
Michael Lewis
It is known that a very small number of ISU-152s took part in the liquidation of the Chernobyl disaster, 1986. They were used to clear buildings by ramming them down, like a bulldozer. After they became too irradiated for use, many were either dumped in vehicle graveyards, or were just left where they were.
The Soviets never did that shit. Literally all chemical, radiation or biological incidents were accidents that were handled immediately, not testing without notification.
All of these are far worse than Chernobyl because Chernobyl was an accident and was handled as quickly as possible, while the prior mentioned things were intentional experimentation on the public.
Ohhhh shit, sorry, there's been a pro-burger shill going through the threads here so I thought you might be him.
Stars Wars is fiction and they're an evil empire modelled off the nazis. technically because its ficiton they could be depicted doing horrible things, which was my point. The USA has outdone a fictional Evil Empire in every aspect, ironically while maintaining a delusion of being a free country of liberty.
