I stumbled upon a pool in /leftybritpol/ thread, with question "who will you vote for in eu elections?". What the fuck? Why would enlightened Zig Forums comrade vote for anyone else than the communist party?
Why would you vote for a party with single (empty) promise of something better instead of party which will offer you full package? so is party you would be voting for, you just not know it like it or not, EU parliament and institutions does affect our daily lives. Also, the communist parties are fighting for further democratization of EU
"The Communist party", which Communist party,, if any?
How many parties in country you are from have word "communist" in name?
Like 7, plus a billion trot sects: almost none of them stand for election and none in my constituency,
Comrade, I have no idea what "constituency" is, but no normal european communist party would run for seats in EU if they would be leaving in a few months.
I won't vote because I had administrative problems due to not having a stable home, but I would have voted for La France Insoumise or Yellow Vests representatives if it would be a thing.
why not French Communist Party?
Because the PCF is a wee bit shite?
the communist party of britain endorses labour.
and to answer your first question, some people are considering voting brexit party as a protest vote against establishment remainers who are trying to derail brexit.
I can't speak frogspeak, translate it into english, please.
electing cryptofascists to own the libs
Brexit Party has Claire Fox as a candidate and is endorsed by all the right people e.g. George Galloway. In fact it's the only party that's actively seeking the votes of Lexiters (i.e. actual leftists) in these elections. Go and sign another petition if you don't like it.
Wow what a fucking leftist hero. I've read Spiked, it's total TPUSA style shit.
And George Galloway? Jesus wept.
I'm just in absolute fucking awe that leftists are somehow getting fooled by communism again.
Ayy nice wordfilter BO, you're still getting the last laugh eh.
If you will vote for a bunch of reactionaries in ties backed by the dirtiest of far right money because they tell you what you want to hear about sovereignty, you deserve to get purged, I'm happy you'll be standing there next to me.
yes, there are. DKP, MLPD and SGP are running in Germany.
No, their a big tent party, though kids like you probably don’t know what that means. I’m not fan of tan,kies either, but a comrade is a comrade, sectarianism helps no one but the capitalists.
The communist parties in the EU are all subsumed in the European Left coalition. So it doesn't really matter which one you vote for, as long as it isn't one of the tiny ones that has no chance to get a seat in the European Parliament anyway. But there is no x % hurdle for the European Parliament. So even if your party just gets 0.6 % or so it might get a seat.
How the fuck are they? Their most prominent members are all hard right figures. I don't care if they attracted some irrelevant quislings. The Tories and UKIP have become unpalatable so they've rebranded again, it's the exact same thing happened when the BNP magically got a makeover and became UKIP, and suddenly we had to act like it was a respectable and reasonable party. I mean for the love of christ. How gullible can people be after how many times the right have courted the left in in the last century only to viciously destroy them?
I try not to be sectarian but come on, anyone seriously presenting themselves as as a Marxist Leninist in the current year has got to get a reality check. Even the fucking Nazis have learned to rebrand their same ideas under new auspices, and they're fucking dumb as shit.
A cold, hard truth, but it needs to be demonstrated as such. Doing nothing leaves you looking like a euphoric, 2kool4skool cynic.
Why does what we look like matter in the slightest?
Great, congratulations on joining both the communist and the fascist party.
You want people to listen to you after they've been disillusioned with representative bourgeois democracy, rather than the fascist that promises to fix everything, and proposes ditching the entire "voting" thing entirely, right?
All genuine fascist parties are pro-Israel, though? Which is itself fascist? Or are you implying anti-semitic neonazi LARPers are politically relevant?
The BREXIT Party has many supporters and members who are left wing. If you want to fight reactionary ideology, fight the EU, not Brexit. It’s important to remember that it isn’t the BREXIT Party sinking migrant ships, it’s the EU army with their “fortress Europe” nonsense. The EU is a reactionary institution.
a party that is anti-eu is as communist as a party that is anti-israel you absolute retard. die slow
You work with the tools you have, not the tools you want.
eat shit and die you stupid motherfucker you are no tanky
EU is a neoliberal shithole that can’t be reformed (although an effort should still be made) so I can understand leaving. But the attempt to leave is definelty ideologically muddied, especially where there is no real casus beli to leave. I picked Soft Brexit though coz that is THE actual democratic decision to make that Leavers and Remoaners are ignoring to be partisan as fuck.
TL:DR Labour did nothing wrong with regards to EU
Don't worry, the EU is dead, when the coming Last Depression reaches Deutsche Bank.
No, fascism is not a looming threat. It cannot come back. Global capitalism cannot be split back into numerous sphere like it was in the beginning of the twentieth century. Trying to look good to normies as opposed to fascism is a fool's concern.
Liberalism is always destined to collapse into fascism. If you bothered to look past the speeches, the aesthetics, the bells and the whistles, and looked exactly how neoconservatives and neoliberals behave, the wars, the trampling on workers, the handouts to the rich, you'd faintly hear Hello Zepp in the back of your head.
Doubt but okay. I think when people talk about the EU it is more about the institutions than its monetary policy
You forget its modus operandi and capitalism itself. To grow, capitalism requires free movement of labour (Schengen) and free movement of capital (deregulation and austerity). And you should know by now how these l'aissez faire ventures end and instability it introduces. Either Germany bails out Deutsche Bank, breaking the rules they forced on everyone else, and the rest tells them to fuck off and start looking after their hurting economies, or they don't and Deutsche Bank's €43 trillion in derivatives crash the EU economy with no survivors.
What are you talking about? The amount of communist parties that are in the EL are next to zero, and even if, say, a communist party would join them they'd be kicked out by the butthurt SocDems anyway. The KKE founded the Initiative of European Commmunist and Worker's Parties for communists to have their home on a European scale: initiative-cwpe.org/en/home/ If your party isn't in there, it's probably massively revisionist.
now that Zig Forums comes back after BO's resignation we got literal EU shills
But people talking about entering or leaving EU is more concerned about its democratic/federal nature rather its monetary policies. A economic crash would injure EU but would not deflate the European ideal/dream
You'd be naive to believe that the people in charge who join/leave the EU don't do it because of mostly economic incentives. Or even military incentives, like the butthurt belt in its Russophobia.
Then what's your argument to not leave the EU? The way the EU is structured it's much harder for socialists to get a foothold in EU structures than in national structures. The EU has fucked anything that's slightly to the left of centre with sanctions and austerity, like Syriza or the left coalition in Portugal, getting out of its stronghold is a good idea.
No I don’t you fucking moron.
I never said otherwise? Check up the reply chain.
Imagine actually believing this… Also the BXP is full-to-the-brim with prokies what are you chatting.
My country's socialist party is euroskeptic, I think they're good enough to vote for.
Any Swedes here? SKP are running and K is telling people to not vote. What do? SKP are embarrassing "anti-revisionist" Stalinoid LARPers tbh.
Idk why there are people defending BXP on ideological terms itt, it's a single issue party and the best thing for it to do is to splinter the votes between various factions of the right-wing after the European Elections. The Protest vote strategy isn't something I'm opposed to but enough people are doing that for Tories & Kippers to get royally fucked anyway. I think you all need to realise that BXP technically isn't a /real/ political party in that all executive control rests with Farage, and that he's going to pivot towards the exact same positions as Johnson & Rees Mogg (I.E becoming cucked to the US and inviting them in to sell off even more state institutions, especially the NHS. Mogg personally benefits from this because he runs private care homes). This is just going to be another neoliberal ourobouros eating it's own tail through marketizing even more aspects of our lives. That being said I think it's ultimately a good development that turns out well for the left because as UKIP & BXP increasingly show themselves to be exactly the same Right-Wing horseshit as Tories, the more of them start looking for alternatives.
Don't care what you think about their ideas (although Galloway is absolutely based). The point is that they identify as Lexiters, therefore the party is open to Lexiters and cannot be called a right-wing one. It's a broad church for supporters of Brexit and if and when it stops being that, I will stop supporting it. Comparing it to the Nazis is some crass bullshit, friend.
Why are you even here if you believe this shit. Communism = leftism
You just love strawmanning, don't you.
I thought OP was just talking about Britain.
'Leave the EU' definitely was a leftist option. That's why the establishment was heavily opposed to the referendum. It would never have been offered to us if David Cameron hadn't been so stupid and reckless.
Opposition to monarchism is a necessary part of communism. You cannot be a communist if you don't oppose it, just like you can't be a communist if you don't oppose the EU.
Soft Brexit is the ideal outcome for Porky. It preserves our entanglement in EU institutions while at the same time preserving the facade of bourgeois democracy. Hard Brexit > Remain > Soft Brexit.
International Brigades flag poster has been around for a while with the same opinions, and he hasn't been banned (which is good). Definitely nothing to do with BO leaving.
Better that CPB's policy of 'dude vote Labour lmao'. Even though all Labour's candidates are People's Voters.
Oops. I was going off this post , should have verified it.
Well might as well make it an EU election general since it is coming up.
Not swedish, but what is the worst thing "true SKP member" would do? He can't exactly begin collectivization of all european farmland and throw every liberal into prison. What he will do instead is vote in favour of leftist legislative, and try to push EU from the NATO. They might not be the best option for your country, but they will do as good as any truly leftist party would do in EU parliament.
This is degenerate too, you did not have that in the Soviet Union. Also going out is pure suffering tbh especially in summer when there are all these cute females in their revealing clothes, it's like being a starving child locked up in a cage in a luxus restaurant.
soviet union was cold. Other socialist countries were not as puritan as you suggest in regard to revealed skin, and if some man would try to force on woman dressed in swimming suit in town was beaten up by police.
Altough the DKP has distanced themself from the EL, I wonder why they didn't join INITIATIVE yet.
Contrary to the meme, fascism is not liberalism's final form. We are in liberalism's final form, and it is every bit as awful as fascism was. It is stupid to worry about the long-dead fascism when we have the very current liberalism with its boot on our collective necks right now. What exactly are you even afraid of? We already have the mass incarcerations, the poor segregated from the not-so-poor, a police force that is indistinguishable from the military, the wholesale slaughter of civilians, the mandatory propaganda that dominates every media outlet, omnipresent surveilance, a small ruling cabal, workers movements systematically eliminated. Even if fascism were possible in this global capitalism–which it's not–it could not possibly be any worse than what we have right now in the liberal present.
"Fortress Europe" is an economic term. The European Union is critically engaged in destroying national boundaries. This is good for us because it accelerates the elimination of concerns which go beyond capital and are easy exploited by the Bourgeois. Nationalism has to die if Communism is to live. It creates attachments to things like tradition (a tool for the maintenance of class structure). The EU, for all its faults, will be an essential tool for us to push for Worker unity. Vote for the furthest left-wing party on the ballot paper.
This. We have to be adaptive to circumstances. Liberalism has caused nothing but mass poverty and a social class of people who have been completely abandoned. In the first world we see the transition from traditional industries to service industries erode the once ubiquitous class consciousness that helped Communist parties and Unions achieve the (albeit limited) successes they once enjoyed. Service industries have created a Bourgeois "Working Class". overcoming that is the biggest challenge for European Communists.
That's exactly what my view is, basically. Plus the EU is a useful counterweight to America and the rising China.
pro-EU posting should be a bannable offense tbh
Literally neolib rhetoric.
I asked them about it, they never heard about it.
The EU is accelerating capitalism to the point that capitalism's inherent contradictions will destroy it and lead to European communism. Going back to nationalism and national currencies will keep capitalism alive for a lot longer. When the EU is already communist, Corbystan will still be succdem.
Do you want to say by this, the EU can be reformed?
no, he's saying that Brussel's parliament should be seized by red army and establish European Socialist Union.
Looks like you'll be spared the Ice-pick today comrade
Any even remotely socialist programme requires a reassertion of poltical power over capital, the sovereignty of state power against global capital. Any even vaguely "anti-business" policies will be punished by credit rating agencies and investors, and companies and wealthy individuals will threaten to take their business elsewhere. Tax havens are the most blatant example of this. There are precisely two states powerful enough to actually weaken the power of global capital, and neither would benefit from such actions in the present. European Union represents some 25% of global GDP, and European rules on, say, tax havens would have a solid chance of becoming institutionalised globally. Even the current EU, despite having tax dodgers like Juncker at the top, is already acting against tax havens, just not aggressively enough. What is needed now is political will and power, and GUE/NGL for example is already doing a lot of groundwork on the tax haven issue.
why? sure, it's just another bourgeois institution of political power, but where political power resides so must we.
that's a giant strawman, user. are you sure you're not arguing in bad faith? neolib, how? more like neorealist geopolitics if anything. For what it's worth, an EU military would actually prevent interventionism, since any military action taken by it would probably require a high level of political unanimity, thus blocking the usual suspects from utilising it to destabilise and destroy countries in Africa or the Mid-East. It's unlikely anything short of a territorial invasion could trigger enough consensus for military action.
Lmfao Brexit was 100% about racism and nationalism. Opposition to monarchism is a necessary part of capitalism. You cannot be a capitalist if you don't oppose it.
Your take is dogshit. Any good socialist should be anti-Clinton, therefore you should vote Trump. Any good socialist should be anti-Israel therefore you should vote for an Tslamic theocracy. Any good socialist should be anti-EU therefore you should vote for Nigel Farage's Brexit party or Sargon's UKIP. Eat shit and die you fucking cocksucker.
maybe the mainstream right-wing brexiteering was, but there was also a strong element of protest, of people voting against the status quo no matter what the other option. And you can't ignore the long tradition of leftwing Euroscepticism in the UK. The Labour party was the more EU-critical of the two main parties in Britain for a long time, and Corbyn for example comes from this Eurosceptical Bennite left-labour tradition.
Totally wrong, you spaz, and it wouldn't disprove my point even if so. Take a course in logic.
Wrong. I am pro-Brexit and against those things, and there are plenty of examples ITT of people and parties who are the same.
Butthurt little faggot.
Go home, COINTELPRO, we see trough your lies
Why the fuck should I still for European monopoly capitalists against American monopoly capitalists? Do you even know the most basic communist positions? It hasn't so far, and it won't. You don't need a united military, you can use the militarized nations like France to do the bombing like they did in Libya.
Also, bonus points for thinking imperialism = interventionism, you illiterate
as I see it revolutionary defeatism really isn't in the cards right now. I'd rather a balance of power be maintained than to see a balkanised europe as a theater of great power competition. anyway you didn't really answer the question of how it is neoliberal rethoric but jumped to a whole another one. there is no EU military user. though it is true that individual states can and will use their own militaries unilaterally (and after brexit leaves EU with only something like 1,5 real militaries, the French position will be more prominent because of their hard power disparity in comparison to the rest of EU), an EU military would lessen the need to maintain such armies for individual member countries. very honest arguing user
The thing is that the EU is a giant beuocracy, the European Parliament if a giant rubber stamp. The EU is not a liberal democracy. This is why it can’t be reformed.
These figures make no since since firstly Sweden was never accepted to euro and secondly the vote on EU constitution was never accepted,implemented nor ratified. As for the Greece in terms of bailout the public vote was advisory and not legally binding.