Abortion

Yes, if you kill something you can't abuse it.

unformed =/= unconscious

If I could fry an 9 months old baby instantly, without pain and quick, without leaving any traces that a baby existed, while it still resides inside of a womb, I would do it. For reasons not related to abortion.

A fetus is a literal parasite on the mother's body. She should have autonomy to control whether it's allowed in her. Once a kid is born they're a parasite in a different sense and it's not possible for everyone to deal with that, not to mention a bad situation to be in as the kid.

A lot of people would rather not be born than be born into orphanhood, foster care, a ward of the state, etc. There's no reason to force a shitty existence on someone when the alternative is to not have to exist. As for economic factors, disallowing abortion increases poverty by taking away the ability of poor people in particular to do family planning.

It's funny how people have no problem accepting that reasoning unironically with putting pets out of their misery, but when it comes to an elderly person or an embryo suddenly it's unconscionable.

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By your logic you are killing a child just because he was born from a woman that got raped, if according to you a fetus is the same as a person.

Why should I care about the luxury problems of sexhavers? Abortion policy should by designed in such a way as to make the maximum amount of them unhappy to the largest extent possible.
I would do it for myself.

You can literally use the pro-abortion argument for complete antinatalism.

Yes, let's kill everyone preemptively. Can't be unhappy if you are dead.

Which she does, she chooses not to have sex, have sex with a condom or take the pill/contraception. The reason you see children as parasites is because of the economic predicament of capitalism.
How do you know? So the alternative is to murder them? If someone is really unhappy with the life of an orphan, I think they should be free to kill themselves, but it's not my choice to go around killing them. For many, a shitty life if better than no life at all.
Abortion isn't euthanasia. When you euthanize somebody, it's because there is a high chance they'll never wake up from a coma or just be miserable. This isn't the case for a perfectly healthy unborn human being.

This.
These things are honestly just nuggets that can't feel the terror of what lays behind deathAnimals can't feel this terror either, but they sure as hell can feel sad about leaving (F)

Yeah you are right. So I'll stand corrected, no abortions for rape victims. However, I believe when it's clear that giving birth would be extremely dangerous and lethal for the mother, the life of the mother should prevail.

At what stage does proper development start?Just asking for some studies.

Actually the first world does way more carbon emissions per capita

No, anti-natalists generally occupied a minority of users and were for the most part relegated to black-flags

>>2892042 The sad reality is that you can't over-throw a government (that you don't like) with the help of dissatisfied masses if said masses simply never were born. Leftism seeks only, inherently, to lead people into a wretched existence for the sole purpose of self perpetuation. Leftism, in this regard, (like religion) is akin to a disease in need of serious purging.

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Do you have a single fact to back that up.

Depends on where you draw the line of full sapience, it can be anywhere from like 6 months in the womb to 4 years old to like, first puberty. The societal stance has also changed throughout history and cultures. A lot of people still practice infanticide in India and Africa when it seemed necessary.

What the fuck does that even mean, even if half of earth's population were to die it wouldn't somehow make a revolution harder to happen.

Unless she's raped or contraception fails, which is bound to happen a lot given the population size. In a lot of these places there are bans on contraceptives as well, and either no sexual education or active miseducation.
The reason I see a fetus as a parasite is that it siphons nutrients away from the mother's body and impairs her normal bodily functions the way that a parasite does.

The suicide rate and other indicators for well-being.
No, it's to prevent their birth.
But you think it is your choice to make sure they have to endure it and make that choice themselves.
No life at all is nothing to anybody because they're not there to experience it. A shitty life is shitty.

Abortion is exactly euthanasia.
No, euthanasia is simply ending a life. It can be done for good or bad reasons.
Just because the embryo/fetus is healthy (often it isn't) doesn't mean that the child will grow up to be healthy. Abortion/miscarriage is also a natural part of human reproduction. Miscarriages are extremely common, just not something most people want to talk about. And prior to a recognizable pregnancy, the blasocyst that forms from the zygote only has about a 1/8 chance of attaching to the uterine wall and interrupting the menstrual cycle. The overwhelming majority of "human lives" are washed out of a woman's body during her period without her ever knowing they existed. Are uteri mass murderers now?

It’s not killing at that point. I find your intellectual integrity dubious. This whole thread is really just another reminder that conservatives have no pride or honesty anymore, and will desperately fake anything to preserve cultures dependent on child abuse.

Not really. I’m a “complete antinatalist”, but mostly because I would rather the process be made scientific. Banning abortions seems more likely to deepen extant sexual disinterest among women. If I were incremental antinatalist, I might favor it.

As it is I suspect it’ll increase pressure towards the legalization of prostitution, which I’m okay with.

Okay, so you’re literally willing to lie. Congratulations.

What is the distinction then?

If half the population died you'd likely TO facilitate the means for a revolution, but you're arguing oranges in an apple debate.

Yes, it's the reason the USSR never went full communism, nobody seeks their own destruction, not even the collective.

This is a terrible argument. There are still those who are happy and glad they are born, and children who nobody wanted to abort who kill themselves.
What gives you the right to kil a population that oversteps some arbitrary barrier of suicide rare? People born into poverty are probably even worse off. Should we kill them, or to use your words, "prevent their births"?

Distribution problems, actually.

People should not get an abotion unless it's absolutely necessary like rape or serious health defects

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God, fetuses are fucking disgusting, fucking kill them.

ayy lmao

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_monster
I wouldn't be killing anybody. I'd be allowing pregnant women to choose abortion if the situation isn't ideal for children. You seem to be forgetting that having a baby can mean not having a baby at a better time. Forcing women to have kids when they're in a bad situation can prevent the same women from having kids later when they're in a better situation, especially since the cost of raising a kid can prevent them from ever getting to a better situation.
No, per above we give the mothers the ability to make a call to have kids at the best time for them.

'nuff said, you can't have a revolution if the revolutionaries get aborted.

Sex dolls are people too I guess.

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Like your momma should have killed you then I guess?

God help your kids if you have any.

I don’t really come here for integrity. Like all of Zig Forums, this place is governed by hilariously self-destructive hostility to honesty. It’s a lot of fun to watch people fake up positions! They’re so broken to hatred, they’re no longer willing to think for themselves in any way at all! Truth is, nothing goes the way anyone wants it to, so why not forgive the Creator’s whims? The key to resilience is refusing to yield your playful spirit to liars, claim they left or right, and dwell despite all abuses in a pattern better than it’s said to be.

Positions against abortion express to me a lack of faith. I’ll go so far as to acknowledge that it pushes right up against the line of materialism and the spirit to say this, but I don’t think there’s a distinct experience pattern in a fetus yet. I don’t think they’re conscious and forming memories yet. They’re a person in potential, not a person. As a person in potential, we should prevent potential child abuse; as not a person just yet, we are not yet obligated to prevent their murder. Mandatory abortion would be a violence against the parents, not the unborn child.

The later the threshold someone wants to set for abortion, the more sympathy I have for them. Were it entirely up to me I’d be an unhappy decider! The worst position bans abortion and contraceptives, since that strips all the child abuse protections out.

Lyrics! Inspired by the integrity question, mostly. Do ya’ think this issue is my kryptonite? Well, no matter; I’m nobody. On the internet, nobody knows you’re telling the truth if you claim to be nobody.
Well, I took a walk around the world to ease my troubled mind
I left my body lying somewhere in the sands of time
But I watched the world float to the dark side of the moon
I feel there's nothing I can do, yeah
I watched the world float to the dark side of the moon
After all I knew, it had to be something to do with you
I really don't mind what happens now and then
As long as you'll be my friend at the end
If I go crazy, then will you still call me Superman?
If I'm alive and well, will you be there and holding my hand?
I'll keep you by my side with my superhuman might
Kryptonite
You called me strong, you called me weak
But still your secrets, I will keep
You took for granted all the times, I never let you down
You stumbled in and bumped your head
If not for me then you'd be dead
I picked you up and put you back on solid ground
If I go crazy, then will you still call me Superman?
If I'm alive and well, will you be there and holding my hand?
I'll keep you by my side with my superhuman might
Kryptonite
If I go crazy, then will you still call me Superman?
If I'm alive and well, will you be there holding my hand?
I'll keep you by my side with my superhuman might
Kryptonite, yeah
If I go crazy, then will you still call me Superman?
If I'm alive and well, will you be there and holding my hand?
I'll keep you by my side with my superhuman might
Kryptonite

the only condition in which I will have children is if the revolution comes about within my lifetime

based

Based schizo poster.

You'll get gutted alive by one of your nigger "comrades", fag boy.

I'm glad this is the level of discourse we are having.

Oh, Lenin posting! Perhaps I should apologize. I am the very creature of enmity and dreadfully bourgouis. I do not actually mean to drag down the discourse, I have just seen such terrible threads lately. People still act like nazis in the oh brother country!

Ahem. Lenin-posting. That’s interesting, the growing working class thing. If people want to make this about natalism, the Soviet Union eventually was quite sexless. Why does that happen?

The Soviet Union used some fascinating accumulation patterns. Their famines, disappearances, forcible reallocations, even the gulags, all were used in a rather “neomalthusian” way. They stripped and concentrated resources in a relatively brutal mode, condensing wealth in a deliberate manner, yet by that I do not mean to accuse them of capitalism. They had arguably reasonable and not always corrupted patterns.

People became used to a disempowerment, I think. There was nothing to be done save everything. The nation had so far to grow, so many struggles, and there was never enough of anything. Where the west uses fiscal debt, something like that hung over the Soviet s. They were in debt to The Plan.

As best I understand it, it is debt that holds back reproduction. This abortion question is not it at all!

A woman has the right to choose what happens to her body

???

Nothing to lose but your chains, etc.

What punishment would a woman who seeks or gets abortion receive? And how do you prevent the conviction of women who miscarry?

People have the right to get abortions up to the end of the second trimester of pregnancy. After that only in medical emergencies.

It makes no sense to allow children to be born into families that don't want them.

No they're not.

Good shit, this is the leftist take.

Make it legal and widespread, but don't take a nihilistic, malthusian approach about it. Reproductive rights are not about "curing" poverty or bringing less "undesirables" to the world, it's about fairness and human dignity.

People are not gonna use protection, protection will fail and people will not have the means to raise children prpoerly. If you wanna go around expecting people to do the perfectly right choice all the time you might as well be a petterson fag.

fetuses*

How many leftists are doing that in this thread? most seem pro abortion.

Jolly good, comrades

Well, its more about the fact that banning it does little to nothing to, as Lenin put it, "heal the ulcers of capitalism". Abortion is an unfortunate result of, generally, economic factors. If the reduction of abortions is to be desired, then the actual conditions that perpetuate it must be surpassed.

Ironically, the soviets though those conditions were already met when they decided to ban abortion a few years after making it legal.

Its restriction was actually portrayed as a fulfillment of Lenin-era policy. To quote one author (Pat Sloan, Soviet Democracy, 1937, pp. 125-126):

Needless to say, the notion that Soviet women had no more need to recourse to abortion was erroneous (plenty continued to do so illegally), and abortion was thus relegalized after Stalin's death.

I can bring up the older threads we've had on this, but we've generally been split on the issue. The most common stances are:
And the black flag/AnNil take

Galaxy brain take:
All of the above. It is bad that it is a death that occurs but good that it happens before they become capable of concieving their own mortality.

Holy shit this. Why do people think it's fine to just pass legislation based on individual philosophical interpretations on what "life" is

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As OP in his post makes a personal philosophical interpretation of what life is and then says it so confidently as fact.

Ban abortion but make it so that we can fuck random strangers and get them prego but don't have to raise the hellspawn.

no one can "make" you attractive, especially not socialist society. btw you can already abandon children in current society

Yeah the difference is he's not making legislation based on his interpretation. Pretty big difference actually.

bye bye baby boons

Is it? Who am I to say OP is lying or those making legislation are lying? Who is to say that banning abortion was based on their interpretation or statistics? You and them are neither wrong nor right, just personal opinions and that all anything will ever be. If abortion gets banned in Alabama it's because their opinion had stronger support than yours.

It takes resources to enforce a ban on abortion. Resources are finite. Resources expended punishing abortion aren’t available elsewhere. Performing abortions also expends resources in the same sense, but the existence of a black market demonstrates people will gather those resources themselves. Banning abortion is therefore a source of internal contradiction in the socialist economy, and ought not be legislated.

Nothing that happens in Alabama is especially indicative of wisdom. That state could mandate teaching Flat Earth in schools without being shocking.

the way the world is going with climate change and capitalism it would be inhumane to bring new life to this hellworld.

There's nothing inherently special about life, unironically.

This board is infested with nazbols, no shock.

Correct

Anyone who isn't an anti natalist isn't a socialist.

Since youre edge is potentially lethal to your mother lets kill you first

So where's the line for that?
50% chance of complications? 10%? 1%?
What non-arbitrary level of risk is unacceptable?

Anyone with a moral opinion on abortion is automatically a shit-faced loser. The fact is that free access to abortion undeniably has a positive effect on the population, while also obviously limiting the growth of that population.
In a socialist society, this should be restricted or allowed contextually depending on the needs of the society.
In a communist society, abortion should be absolutely allowed.
The current machinations of capitalism are not our concern. They need only be studied to further our understanding of the current conditions. Having opinions on whether or not abortion should be allowed under capitalism is reactionary.

I AM NAZBOL
YOU ARE NAZBOL
EVERYONE IS NAZBOL
LMAO SUCK MY NAZBOLLS YOU GAY FUCKING JEW

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There tends to be a bind between "my body, my choice" and abortion which refuting one (ie abortion) refutes the other. While not an American myself, the American health system had been largely a private sector with corporate welfare. Abortion seems to be other business unit to develop in the American medical sector and the debate akin to marketing hype lobbied by American insurance corporations. Within the abortion unit would be found a market to commodify fetal parts some prized by biomedical corporations and conspiracy cults.

Pretty much an astroturfed and lobbied movement by American medical corporations.

Repent, sinners.

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Fuck off fashie. Jesus would behead you before us.

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Err, nah. Repent.

We should ban threads on shitty topics like this one.

Fetuses have lower levels of consciousness than a rat, do you cry every time one of them dies too?

Nazbol
Nazbol you are a tool
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Nazbol the joking fool
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Nazbol go back to Zig Forums

NO WAY JEWISH NIGGER
BOTTOM TEXT

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in a capitalist system abortion needs to be legal. imagine raising a bunch of kids in crippling poverty, fucking up their lives and yours more so, because you were a retarded 16 year old or something.

under a communist system there'd be no point, abortion would be a non issue.

thats not true, are you new

There's a lot of random issues like this where people assume communism is going to be the utopia with a 100% success rate in every important area. This is untrue, there will always be a chance for contraceptive failure or for something to go wrong.

I personally sit in the camp of suffer not the mutant, assisted suicide, abortion, self-euthanasia, and any form of checking out or preventing future suffering is something I support, because I project my empathy onto the experience, not rigid rules and visceral reactions. Safe to say, Zig Forums is not anti-abortion like some chucklefucks here are saying. No one idea owns this board, I hope to god it doesn't become Zig Forums where they argue the semantics of what it means to be a nazi because they're so bloated with them you won't come to the board if you're not one.

...

Please stop mordecai, it's not working

God this tranny again. Leftypol is a 100% anti abortion you stupid fucking tranny. Stop getting duped by shlomos mind control. Abortion is only a malthusian plot to make the working class weaker you worthless ball of fuck

Real incel hours

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So some unlucky incel should be stunted by a family that can't support them or worse, a government upbringing, suffering some 25 odd years of hellish existence just so he can spend his last paycheck on animal euthanasia pills and down 300% of the recommended dose in a motel 3 hours away from his hometown? You guys really care about the babies, don't you? If you, as an incel, have ever thought "I wish I was never born", now's your chance to grant that wish for someone else. Just saying.

It was only like 10 tranny post-left retards with absolutely no life brought here by RedditTrapsurdity and d1x that posted here 24/7 that espoused these views. I guess you were one of them.

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