Ban of Rock and Metal in the USSR

Luis Barnes
Luis Barnes

Why did the USSR and the rest of the warsaw pact(idk about central europe, but in my country, the People's Republic of Bulgaria, banned all rock and metal as being "degenerate bourgeois and fascist music") ban rock and metal? How was it a bourgeois influence when the vast majority of rock and metal fans were bourgeois, and a lot rock music had major anti-imperialist or anti-capitalist themes(John Lennon and , as well as the majority of its listeners being working class?
What makes this hypocritical is that at the same time ballet and classical music was kept in high regard, when these arts are to this day just entertainment for decadent and pretentious nobles and the grande bourgeosie, as well as them being patrons of them.

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/Ri5xGdmrtus
youtube.com/user/mishapanfilov/videos
spin.com/2014/06/list-western-bands-music-russia-banned-soviet-union/
youtu.be/3m0w22K5T60
youtube.com/watch?v=6QtjdDiMLVg
youtube.com/watch?v=0mTEFQeovuw
youtube.com/watch?v=vUouPDB1_rs
youtube.com/watch?v=o2M9DvWcshk
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Earnest_Voice
youtu.be/qbohqFF2DrM
medicalnewstoday.com/articles/295966.php
mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same
archive.is/z79zU
youtube.com/watch?v=KPCkfVpzsC4
youtu.be/UoHkcK_tOj4
youtube.com/watch?v=TqWIe4Exk7E
youtu.be/Hy1D-EewVMs
archive.org/details/sovietrock25year00zait
youtube.com/watch?v=3JmFa2Q40lg
youtube.com/watch?v=ODLlWb5Oilg
k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/004500.html
youtube.com/watch?v=hS78vyLezkc
youtube.com/watch?v=RjZZ8BkMzRI
youtube.com/watch?v=CGt-rTDkMcM
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m.youtube.com/watch?v=y9z2o0DFsoc
m.youtube.com/watch?v=8PaoLy7PHwk
youtube.com/watch?v=T6WYKIJjdUs

Jace Cox
Jace Cox

when the vast majority of rock and metal fans were bourgeois
*weren't

Hudson Lewis
Hudson Lewis

billion dollar rock and roll music industry isn't bourgeois
shut the duck up liberal and watch this

youtu.be/Ri5xGdmrtus

rock and roll is literally cia

Benjamin Diaz
Benjamin Diaz

an entire music genre is cia and deserves to be banned because of that
doubt.jpg

David Price
David Price

How was it a bourgeois influence when the vast majority of rock and metal fans weren't bourgeois,
The fans may not have been porkies, but the musicians were. Rock music is fascist. It was a CIA PSYOP.

a lot rock music had major anti-imperialist or anti-capitalist themes(John Lennon
Liberal hippie bullshit, lots of anti-communism mixed in ("You say you need a revolution…").

The USSR did fail to promote new proletarian music to an extent, but shitty boomer noises were not the answer.

What makes this hypocritical is that at the same time ballet and classical music was kept in high regard, when these arts are to this day just entertainment for decadent and pretentious nobles and the grande bourgeosie
This kind of music is socially organized (in orchestras, practice sessions, etc) and performed by everyone. In comparison, the kind of music that is distinctly stamped with the approval of the bourgeoisie is rock music that focuses on stardom and expropriates musical performance from the masses. Orchestral music was accessible to all in socialism. Would you complain also that the socialists preserved beautiful tzarist architecture and made it accessible to all instead of demolishing it and replacing it with bourgeois skyscrapers?

Ethan Nelson
Ethan Nelson

also, enjoy
youtube.com/user/mishapanfilov/videos

Carson White
Carson White

It was a generation gap an culture war BS, not an ideological question.
Rock music is fascist. It was a CIA PSYOP.
t Silent Generation
This kind of music is socially organized (in orchestras, practice sessions, etc) and performed by everyone. In comparison, the kind of music that is distinctly stamped with the approval of the bourgeoisie is rock music that focuses on stardom and expropriates musical performance from the masses.
Classical music requires unsessicary amounts of labor compared to rock. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.
bourgeoisie is rock music that focuses on stardom
No their is a of of smaller bands and shit.
Would you complain also that the socialists preserved beautiful tzarist architecture and made it accessible to all instead of demolishing it and replacing it with bourgeois skyscrapers?
Yes, a lot of traditional architecture is shit, and skyscrapers are not only cool, but allow for high density cities.

Christian Reyes
Christian Reyes

x cultural/artistic phenomenon is bourgeois
You have to be retarded to think this with maybe a few exceptions.

Oliver Carter
Oliver Carter

the bourgeoisie control literally everything
yet somehow they don't control the media

Liam Lewis
Liam Lewis

>Rock music is fascist.
implying a music genre has ideology

By that logic classical, baroque and ballet is reactionary.
Show me rock lyrics that promote faschism

If you ban an entire genre, you make it a forbidden fruit for the people to smuggle and discredit your regime. This is what happened.

This kind of music is socially organized (in orchestras, practice sessions, etc) and performed by everyone.
For the amusement of nobles.
n comparison, the kind of music that is distinctly stamped with the approval of the bourgeoisie is rock music that focuses on stardom and expropriates musical performance from the masses.
The same criticism could be leveled at soviet era estrada singers like kobzon.

Also classical music is pretentious as shit and pretentiousness is bourgeois.

Christopher Ramirez
Christopher Ramirez

>Rock music is fascist.
implying a music genre has ideology
The sound is not the sole determination of the genre, lyrical content clearly defines genre as well. Look at all the consternation over "genre mixing" between hip hop and country lately. The only thing that tells you the genres have been mixed is the lyrical content.
As well, sounds have ideological content. Read Adorno.

Show me rock lyrics that promote faschism
Why are you commenting on rock music if you haven't listened to any? Just fuck off.

If you ban an entire genre, you make it a forbidden fruit for the people to smuggle and discredit your regime. This is what happened.
Yes, it was poorly handled, like everything under the revisionists.

This kind of music is socially organized (in orchestras, practice sessions, etc) and performed by everyone.
For the amusement of nobles.
Weird, I didn't know the nobles owned the orchestras in the Soviet Union.

Also classical music is pretentious as shit and pretentiousness is bourgeois.
Classical music is beautiful. You are a philistine.

Nathaniel Reed
Nathaniel Reed

Yes, a lot of traditional architecture is shit, and skyscrapers are not only cool, but allow for high density cities.
Please bring the ban on Trots back. Skyscrapers are NOT efficient, they waste too much energy on elevators and stairs. There's a reason the Soviets had limits on how high buildings could get.

Mason Anderson
Mason Anderson

musicians are bourgeois
Musicians who create their own record companies, maybe. The vast majority of musicians suffer from suffocating contract deals and never reach superstar level in their lives, have to work jobs in the meantime, and so on.

Rock music is fascist.
Hot take.

It was a CIA PSYOP.
The fact that the CIA got involved with certain art forms, artist groups, etc. doesn't make whole genres, art forms, or countries of origins PSYOPs.

"Controlling" the media is not the same as being the omnipresent puppeteer of every musician.

If you ban an entire genre, you make it a forbidden fruit for the people to smuggle and discredit your regime. This is what happened.
I agree with this.

implying a music genre has ideology
I'm not sure this isn't the case.

classical music is pretentious as shit and pretentiousness is bourgeois
Composed or "classical" music has the most artistic care put into it, the most work put behind. The fact that you don't like it talks volumes about your condition as a thinking and judging being. The soviet's approach of bringing the high arts to the masses was the right one and pretty much all communists dealing with the topic came to the same conclusion.

Colton Foster
Colton Foster

"Controlling" the media is not the same as being the omnipresent puppeteer of every musician.
They may as well be. How can you seriously be arguing that pop music isn't bourgeois propaganda? And call yourself a Marxist? Hell, a Chomskian could understand this. Are you a child?

Luke Williams
Luke Williams

based

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Luke Gomez
Luke Gomez

How can you seriously be arguing that pop music isn't bourgeois propaganda?
Propaganda would require a conscious effort. If you refer to, say, rapper niglets with their bisshez and hoez, cool cars and golden necklases n' shieet, that's not propaganda. That's just ideology.

Hudson Perry
Hudson Perry

rock is bourgeois
no classical music is
no rock is
Jesus Christ you guys are as fun as patch of dirt.

Jaxon Hall
Jaxon Hall

Propaganda would require a conscious effort.
No it doesn't. If you are taught propaganda all your life and then you repeat what you are taught, there is no conscious effort, but it is still propaganda. And music stars are all selected by the bourgeoisie for the messages they send. Including the Beatles.

If you refer to, say, rapper niglets with their bisshez and hoez, cool cars and golden necklases n' shieet, that's not propaganda
Yes it is. There was a concerted effort in the hip-hop industry to (in some cases literally) kill off and suppress class conscious rappers and replace them with bourgeois propaganda.

Nolan Bell
Nolan Bell

Banning a musical genre is reactionary

Leo Rogers
Leo Rogers

this coming from a Stalinstache?

Christian Nelson
Christian Nelson

Absolutely

Michael Watson
Michael Watson

If you are taught propaganda all your life
Literally impossible. The whole education system would implode in seconds. This is a George Orwell-tier (that is, brainlet-tier) understanding of totalitarianism.

I don't like the definitions of the words so I use them however I wish
"no"

James Cox
James Cox

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Sebastian Sullivan
Sebastian Sullivan

Stalin listened to Death Grips, Scatman John, Deafheaven, the dude was cutting edge. Fucking Kruschevites tossed out all the cool shit and replaced it with Bureaucrats, Middle Managers, and Taylor Swift/ 6ix9ine shit. Fucking disgraceful.

Carter Butler
Carter Butler

If you are taught propaganda all your life
Literally impossible. The whole education system would implode in seconds.
The fact that you actually believe this bullshit proves you were taught propaganda all your life. Read a book.

William Ward
William Ward

Propaganda and implicit ideology are the same.
No u.

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Owen Gomez
Owen Gomez

the major metal bands in western countries have always produced much propaganda against the state and agitated for revolutionary causes. same goes for rap music, punk, etc etc. just because such things eventually get co-opted does not mean porky didnt shit their pants worrying about it. they over and over tried to tank their revolutionary potential (to much success in almost every case) by plying them with bad record deals, drugs, whores, and whatever would make them stay fucked up enough to be useless. they wouldnt have to get metallica bitching about file sharing if metallica didnt start poor, drunk, middle class retards who spoke out against war. pop punk wouldnt exist if kurt cobain and his tranny grunge friends werent queering up the youth and talking about rape just a decade before. all popular music can be seen as counter-culture, corruption, and then integration. it goes from being counter to just being the culture itself until all meaning of it is lost. that's why they can play antiwar vietnam songs right back to back with the indulgent feel good garbage: it dilutes the anger, puts people in unnatural feelings whiplash.
porky doesn't have to produce overt propaganda all the time. if anything, desensitizing people and baffling them work better than straightforward 'kill opposition, reward mouthpieces' method you're describing.
it's much easier to promote the opposition and your lackey all the same; then people can't make up their mind. if the system accepts critiques (even though it really isn't) then there can be some malformed hope, working inside the system to fix it. every bit of hope makes a new generation of drugged out idiots good at making music who will eventually get co-opted. look at jello biafra: his whole band sold out and pushed him aside to put a sarcastic song comparing yuppies to the khmer rouge in a levis commercial. it isn't in anybody's material interest to say no to riches and comfort, especially when you think youve earned it fairly. it is insane for someone to stick with principles; its totally understandable where the incentives lead musicians.
in a way that user is right: porky already has power. they don't need to sustain making overt propaganda and indoctrination… superstructure from base, man. the society's means of production dictates that culturally, people will not question the ideological foundations fully. you can be lazy and say it is all conscious propaganda, but it's not. it's the ideological undercurrent, the reality of commodifying everything, nothing more or less.

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Brandon Mitchell
Brandon Mitchell

Do you also think that the Clash were bad?

The band's political sentiments were reflected in their resistance to the music industry's usual profit motivations; even at their peak, tickets to shows and souvenirs were reasonably priced.[45] The group insisted that CBS sell their double and triple album sets London Calling and Sandinista! for the price of a single album each (then £5), succeeding with the former and compromising with the latter by agreeing to sell it for £5.99 and forfeit all their performance royalties on its first 200,000 sales.[104] These "VFM" (value for money) principles meant that they were constantly in debt to CBS, and only started to break even around 1982.[1]>>2895780

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Leo Stewart
Leo Stewart

overt propaganda
You are the one adding this modifier, not me. I never implied all propaganda is "overt," to the contrary, the signature of modern propaganda is that it attempts to disguise itself. Brainlets ITT are butthurt because it implicates their favorite tee vee shows.

Noah Reyes
Noah Reyes

Spooked conservative Hoxha

Chase Allen
Chase Allen

Honestly thier 1977 debut and Combat Rock remain as some of my favorite albums of all time.

Lucas Davis
Lucas Davis

So what practical solution do you have today? I don't think you could get people to stop being interested in contemporary media, even if it's quality is in your opinion bad or if it has the ideological undercurrent of supporting anti-communist shit. As if capitalists have any issues displaying anti-capitalist messages into their own media. If anything having anti-communist propaganda deludes it's actual strength by making it mundane and banal. Just like being a radlib is today.

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Nicholas Evans
Nicholas Evans

rock
john lennon

metal

spin.com/2014/06/list-western-bands-music-russia-banned-soviet-union/
1985

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Benjamin Morales
Benjamin Morales

Given these reasons, I wouldnt be surprised that the soviet union banned DnD for being satanic.

Dominic Gonzalez
Dominic Gonzalez

unless the content of what you consume is overtly consumerist, imperialist, and the like how can you even critique it as propaganda for the established order? if everything is propaganda, nothing is kosher. all is haram. so you should gtfo this board and kys then, because everything is capitalism and you can't consume anything capitalist.
you are just engaging in ad hoc innuendo to be elitist and act all detached. it's not a gotcha moment, dude.
it is precisely because things mostly can go one way or another that you can tell they are not conscious propaganda. that a propagandistic theme is produced autonomously makes it not propaganda. if you reduce it that way, often you miss the underlying contradiction. this is where knowing some derrida really opens ones eyes to contradictions: lots of media that people argue as pro-establishment is so overtly propagandistic that it stops acting as a rational promotion and more like an ironic critique of its theme. the very refutation of the claim is present in the methods and arguments used to prove it. you can see this happen a lot, where the establishment's croneys, their underlings who are supposed to replicate cultural indoctrination quite competently deconstruct (usually via too literally carrying the message) the whole message making it obnoxious and overbearing.
all social orders save for the most authoritarian are very flimsy; the western media is so fucking flimsy since it can only indoctrinate people to a point. it has to be absent and allow autonomy or be vague on the assumption of faith that the indoctrination works, and that free people will simply accept at face value the narratives they craft. at times if it were too effective and obvious, it wouldnt work. not only is subtlety ineffective, it also makes inventive subversions of the norms easier, and every time that happens, porky has to try and integrate and mutate it to their purposes (see: feminist gillette ads, burger king depression ads). its pretty obvious to people that something is advertisement behind an ideological subversion except when ads have become so vague, nobody even knows what is being sold… these attempts don't work well! they prove that porky can only go so far trying to manufacture consent.
in being vague it emboldens dissent. the contradictions of todays world show this fraying at the edges, the distortion and total subjectification of meaning that comes with this way of making propaganda. that's why it's meant to even out, why they need controlled opposition to keep the whole of public sentiment from tipping to one side or another. perhaps even porky knows that inevitably this line of invention in propaganda can only work for so long before it stops passing as authentic.
you are pretty dumb imo if you dont think theres a difference between analysis and looking for spooks everywhere. case to case basis, every piece of media is different and isnt discountable just because it was produced under a certain social structure. if that were true, all but a handful of media ever made was produced coercively.
heres a good lefty fag tube video about a piece of media unraveling and desconstructing itself: youtu.be/3m0w22K5T60
pink floyd
hahaha wonder what roger waters thought of that
i wouldnt be surprised if they didnt ban it.
satanic
imblying religion

Daniel Ward
Daniel Ward

I don't think you could get people to stop being interested in contemporary media, even if it's quality is in your opinion bad or if it has the ideological undercurrent of supporting anti-communist shit
The solution is to inoculate people against it through criticism and exposing them to the lies in the bourgeois media. Especially easy if you are in communism.

As if capitalists have any issues displaying anti-capitalist messages into their own media
They have very serious issues with genuine anti-capitalism in media. There is absolutely NO serious Marxism or communism in MSM OR "alternative" media. What they do have is a sheepdog fake left, which detourns anti-capitalist sentiment into social democracy, petty booj anarchism, activism, culture wars, etc.

If anything having anti-communist propaganda deludes it's actual strength by making it mundane and banal
Yet you don't even recognize the existence of anti-communist propaganda in the media! As soon as the propaganda is disguised, you say "no propaganda here!"

Nicholas Collins
Nicholas Collins

What sekrit bourgeois fascist propaganda does DnD have? Even racial supremacy?

Julian Thomas
Julian Thomas

*Elven

Bentley Thompson
Bentley Thompson

imblying religion
I mean that the Komsomol committee that made this list would probably agree with evangelical christians on moral matters.

Christian Fisher
Christian Fisher

Its ironic that the music that evangelical christians raged against were actually banned for the same reason the evangelical christians gave for banning them.

Brody Lee
Brody Lee

Yeah you're right. I had a very brain-dead take. Thanks comrade.
I'm not being sarcastic, I was just being a moron.

Nolan Jones
Nolan Jones

On one hand we shouldn't pretend media exists in a vacuum and intelligence agencies havent dipped their fingers into it but on the other we shouldn't hold any pretensions that everything state officials of the USSR did was out of pure indiluted communism. It's not anti-communist or anti-soviet to acknowledge that decisions to ban this or that type of music is policy enacted out of mundane social conservatism.
Quite frankly, I don't consider this a meaningful mark against socialism. Soviet boomers in the government didn't like metal so they banned it - big deal.

Nathan Fisher
Nathan Fisher

if everything is propaganda,
It's your problem if you think the bourgeois media is "everything."

nothing is kosher. all is haram.
Maybe if I was in a religion. You seem awfully offended by media criticism. Have you done any of the required reading to post with a flag like that? Do you think critically about ANYTHING you consume?

derrida really opens ones eyes to contradictions: lots of media that people argue as pro-establishment is so overtly propagandistic that it stops acting as a rational promotion and more like an ironic critique of its theme. the very refutation of the claim is present in the methods and arguments used to prove it
The overt propaganda not only WORKS for a large segment of viewers, but it also serves as a foil for the COVERT propaganda. Hence all the people ITT claiming that if it's not bald eagles and F-35s, it's not propaganda. Hence so many "Neither Washington nor Moscow" "dissidents."

the western media is so fucking flimsy
Now it's the "incompetent bourgeoisie" theory, which is bourgeois propaganda. The Western media is not "fucking flimsy," if it was, it would not dominate the entire planet. It would not dominate the thoughts of so many Westerners 24/7 to the exclusion of anything material.

Jaxson Fisher
Jaxson Fisher

Not an argument, fuck you.

Jackson Cox
Jackson Cox

Black Sabbath
religious obskurantism (sic)
Damn, talk about missing the point completely.

Judas Priest
anti-communism
Anti-communist or not, "Dissident Aggressor" kicked whole worlds of ass. Ironically, their latest album Firepower is loudly, unabashedly leftist.
youtube.com/watch?v=6QtjdDiMLVg

Daniel Phillips
Daniel Phillips

loudly, unabashedly leftist
"Leftism" is abashed.

Luis Perez
Luis Perez

Banning is media is absolutely wrong and useless though.

The soviet leadership didnt seem to have a good knowledge of how media consumption works. they seemed to think that people are like animals that could be effectively cordoned off from something harmful. Is western music propaganda? ban it. Are western movies propaganda? Ban them!

Banning something is a sign of weakness, as if you can't reply to criticism. Do we socialists really want to show as being too weak and believing that the masses lack critical thinking that we should ban media against us instead of responding to it?

James Powell
James Powell

They didn't ban all of it except when it first came out. Later most of it was banned because most songs were full of anarchist-libertarian edge in the lyrics. Songs like I Wanna Rock (for example) encouraged spurning the establishment… just for kicks, and portrayed things like parents and schools are stuffy and 'holding you back'. This may have been applicable to the West where capitalism made families and school a disaster to be in, but in the USSR school and family was considered a very important and respected thing and therefore such brash disregard for those things being shown and heard by soviet people was something they wanted to avoid. A more anecdotal example is teachers from the USSR who moved to the West to teach. Many of them were stunned at the brazen lack of respect for teachers and moreover the complete lack of rights teachers had both with students and as a career in general. And they were right to fear it because we got things like Igor Talykov who wrote tons of anti-soviet shit (while also ripping off music from Western musicians).
Talykov's example is very well known as pointed out by tubusshow
youtube.com/watch?v=0mTEFQeovuw
youtube.com/watch?v=vUouPDB1_rs

The youth of the USSR, hearing this 'brilliant' shit that was essentially 'fug uthority' were influenced by this, letting trickles of pro-capitalist sentiment in which snowballed into betrayal and pro-capitalists like Gorby getting control.

Jose Wright
Jose Wright

You're not going to get the average prole to hate and tear down all the movies and TV shows they like. In a world without religion, and without community because of zoning laws, media is literally all people have for comfort.

Jace Taylor
Jace Taylor

Apparently not.

Christian King
Christian King

That's not a common thing, that's an anomaly. the USSR should allow all the shit just because of 1 band?

Mason Powell
Mason Powell

letting trickles of pro-capitalist sentiment in which snowballed into betrayal and pro-capitalists like Gorby getting control.
Rock music caused Birthmark to become leader

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Cameron Howard
Cameron Howard

it was s different time back then, when it was new and confused allot of the boomers. but today we should inow better, how many working class proles actually like to listen to metal and rap.

Sebastian Flores
Sebastian Flores

Ideology is a material force when it grips the minds of the masses.

Charles Bell
Charles Bell

Socialist country permanently under siege by imperial powers should allow pro-capitalist sentiments grown by foreign hostile nations or they are idealist shitters.

Elijah Ross
Elijah Ross

Stop putting words in my mouth, you're only making yourself look like a fool. Nowhere did I say that Rock put Gorb into power, only that it, among other influences (such as Khurschev's Secret Speech or Solzhenitsyn's books), incited revisionism and doubt of socialism which gave closet pro-capitalists footholds into the political sphere of the USSR. This began to collect and fester until it finally burst when Gorby got power and thus allowed pro-capitalism to start actively being worked into the economy, even if it was 'guised as "a return to Lenin".

This is why Trots need to be banned, they have to have every little fucking thing explained out to them… and even then they don't pay attention. But what should we expect from people who follow the ideology of a person who flip-flopped on positions constantly.

TL;DR: Rock is an anti-socialist influence among many that caused revisionism that cascaded into the dissolution of the USSR.

Lucas Phillips
Lucas Phillips

Stop putting words in my mouth, you're only making yourself look like a fool.
This is how all opportunists argue, like high school bullies.

Charles Thomas
Charles Thomas

everyone I don't like is opportunist.

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Jaxon Myers
Jaxon Myers

Read Lenin.

Juan Williams
Juan Williams

no u

Owen White
Owen White

Only if they act on it, which an empowered people, like under a socialist system, might.

Aiden Parker
Aiden Parker

Lets put rock aside for a moment and discuss metal. Metal is a highly political genre with bands from pretty much every ideology. I'm all for suppressing the right-wing types within metal, but there is also a significant far-left movement within metal. The metal community as a whole has been trying to purge the reactionaries anyways by calling in bomb threats to their concerts and violently protesting.

Here is a side-project of a bunch of well-known metal musicians that's dedicated to brutally mocking the alt-right called neckbeard deathcamp :

youtube.com/watch?v=o2M9DvWcshk

Kevin Collins
Kevin Collins

Putin wouldn’t want you to see this list
his beloved Soviets
what is this liberal bullshit

Austin Edwards
Austin Edwards

NO it wasn’t. They were plenty of reactionaries who fought in the Red Army, not for ideological, but economic reasons.

Nolan Reyes
Nolan Reyes

Lol talking heads writing a great anti-capitalist anthem in "Everybody wants to rule the world" and it gets banned in the USSR.
Also what song says the Soviets are a military danger?

Ian Reyes
Ian Reyes

anti-capitalist anthem in "Everybody wants to rule the world"
That was Tears For Fears user…
t. really oldfag

John Lewis
John Lewis

As well, sounds have ideological content. Read Adorno.
elaborate

Ian Gray
Ian Gray

Everything fun from the west is bourgoies.

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Isaiah Gray
Isaiah Gray

Reminder that Nixon said that the Communists were wrong that the West would lose its morals and you have all sorts of degeneracy because of Capitalism.

Liam Fisher
Liam Fisher

Who made that list?

Benjamin Bailey
Benjamin Bailey

Saying that the bourgeoisie control the media is not the same thing as saying that a particular art form can only ever serve bourgeois interests. There’s literally no reason why something like rock music can’t deliver a socialist message, especially within a socialist state. By your logic books should be banned under socialism because the bourgeoisie control the publishing industry.

Nicholas Rivera
Nicholas Rivera

Songs like I Wanna Rock (for example) encouraged spurning the establishment… just for kicks, and portrayed things like parents and schools are stuffy and 'holding you back'.

Wouldn't the legitemately leftist, experimental and underground bands of the time be considered more dangerous than the pacified popular rock selling an artificial and empty image of rebellion?

Think of bands like The Pop Group and This Heat which in their lyrics provide an understanding of Marx and as an overarching project can be considered a situationist detournment of rock. Is the USSR going to fuck with this like they wouldn't with any artist in any other medium?

Julian Lewis
Julian Lewis

i'd say refer to The USSR just banned it all for good measure

Hunter Walker
Hunter Walker

That's not what i'm saying, i'm saying that actual revolutionary leftist bands would be in disinterest to the USSR, and would prefer pacified rock churned out of the cultural industry but with a message and lyrical change.

Connor Ortiz
Connor Ortiz

he pacified popular rock selling an artificial and empty image of rebellion
You mean like the Color Revolutions? Those empty artificial calls for rebellion leads to those kinds of things.

Isaac Bailey
Isaac Bailey

STOP listening to rock and roll, the electric gee-tar is literally the stringed Jew™. Listen only to Tangerine Dreams.

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Michael Williams
Michael Williams

It's your problem if you think the bourgeois media is "everything."
you werent making any distinctions and declared,
the bourgeoisie control literally everything
so if you believe that, even independent labels, individuals, venues, promotions… its all owned by the bourgeoisie, no matter what qualification. "everything" is your word and now youre moving the goalposts.
Maybe if I was in a religion.
if you think in absolutes like you do, you might very well be ideologically marxist but totally uninterested in praxis or even maintaining scientific rigor in dialectic.
You seem awfully offended by media criticism.
you havent critiqued anything. you just have declared "peoples favorite tee vee shows" as taboo because you believe that everyone is porky's servants except you, presumably, since we can't use your arguments reliably without assuming you are not also bought by porky.
The overt propaganda not only WORKS for a large segment of viewers, but it also serves as a foil for the COVERT propaganda. Hence all the people ITT claiming that if it's not bald eagles and F-35s, it's not propaganda. Hence so many "Neither Washington nor Moscow" "dissidents."
you just seem to be yelling at walls. i dont think the propaganda works, and if you believe porky is potent, then you should stop blaming their propaganda. their hegemony is maintained not because of their own power but through the generational, material process of bribing their servants and collaborators. just because americans are preoccupied with our own retarded media apparatus, doesnt mean its somehow inherently good at what it does or better. your personal fixation with it- and culture you dislike- discounts how incompetent and full of holes it is. youre willing to just reduce people to being braindead for being duped by it (which they arent lmao) when it doesnt even serve a purpose of indoctrination, or as you said
If you are taught propaganda all your life and then you repeat what you are taught, there is no conscious effort, but it is still propaganda.
music, art, television, cable news… whatever the fuck, its all made with varying porky involvement and influence. they are case to case issues and deserve to analyzed on their own terms. it indeed has to be overt propaganda with a proper criteria and tests as a matter of categorical clarity, or else everything is propaganda because you can simply argue it on arbitrary grounds to be so. thats some lazy shit, my dude… its a fun way to cuck yourself into total irrelevance for being a luddite. you have this understanding of the superstructure that is very narrow and ignores the autonomy of people and how the base causes society to craft culture… it isn't so deterministic and linear.
if the western media is so very successful, why does it have to rebrand itself every few decades? why are they always so far behind the social development of the actual populace? it only works as well as it can match the currents that exist in society. just because something is a paper tiger doesn't mean it gets defeated easily: it's precisely because it is a paper tiger that the collective wills and believes to be a real tiger that it succeeds. it is only through many disparate and tenuous mechanisms that it manages to retain its power.
you are ignoring some of the context im placing in the argument. there is a genuine fear of democracy from those in the ruling class; why do they suppress it even when it has risks? why put so much effort into convincing people they are the most "free" out of all nations, that labor will make you rich, and that voting matters when you and i know all of that is idealism? precisely because it is a lie they must promote it. ideology is that which cannot be questioned; the ideological sentiment of democracy makes no sense for them to promote since it ends in misery.
the conflicting ideological foundations of the system are methods by which to deconstruct and attack it. the bourgeoisie incompetence is that they cannot actually craft narratives with their social power alone. they need to manufacture consent and simulate democracy. what they are good at is accumulating capital, not being popular.
you must be a liberal if you're sincerely thinking people cynically accept everything fox news opines on, consequently because youre a hypocrite who believes everything cnn or msnbc reports. people may take cursory reinforcing of their bias from such sources, but the biases are being preyed on, not created by media.
you are legit retarded, there are so many artists who do the same. instead of "read a book" how about go listen to some punk music. you are out of touch with common people… get off of your high horse, come out of the ivory tower, and interact with human beings.

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Gavin Torres
Gavin Torres

Oh no, its not like we all have gays fucking on the streets etc, its not planned degeneracy at all.

Logan Miller
Logan Miller

you are legit retarded, there are so many artists who do the same. instead of "read a book" how about go listen to some punk music. you are out of touch with common people… get off of your high horse, come out of the ivory tower, and interact with human beings.
I'm out of touch with common people… even as I live and daily interact with them… fuck off m8. Your nebulous statement of "many of them do it" is retarded and ignores massive amounts of context on the situation.

Evan Hughes
Evan Hughes

Based. Just listened to Exit a few days ago, great album.

Christian Lopez
Christian Lopez

Even if the fans and musicians weren't bourgeoisie, the record labels and television networks were and they were the ones that gave them a (controlled) voice. Next to none of them were activists and fewer were leftists, they were well off celebrity virtue signalers just like modern Hollywood.

I'm not going to claim rock is fascist like some of the vacuous idiots here, but it's still true that the hippie movement was controlled opposition operation to neuter the domestic American left and anti-war activism and complete success at doing so. It's also true that the CIA used passifying psychedelics, marijuana, and later crack cocaine to sabotage any anti-establishment movements often in their early stages of formation.

Juan Adams
Juan Adams

passifying psychedelics, marijuana, and later crack cocaine to sabotage any anti-establishment movements
t.stupid boomer
Psyechedelis encourages people to question the system, primarily through starting to feel that theyre enslaved through wageslaving.

Bentley Gray
Bentley Gray

Psyechedelis encourages people to question the system,
so why were hippies fucking worthless? why did the CIA hand it out like candy if it was so dangerous to the system?

Jose Russell
Jose Russell

talking heads
I was thinking of Once in a Lifetime tbh.

Lucas Garcia
Lucas Garcia

rock and roll led to gay people
what is Stonewall

are you 90 user?

Thomas Diaz
Thomas Diaz

Why did the USSR
because the USSR was often bad and dumb

Ethan Bennett
Ethan Bennett

I don't entirely agree with this, but my understanding is that rock'n'roll and western pop music were seen as imports which if accepted could be used by western governments to exercise control over the Soviet public. It's a bit like how the internet is banned or highly regulated in present-day Cuba - that's shitty, I wouldn't want to live in such a condition. But at the same time, the US has been trying to destroy them for ages and get them under the American sphere of influence… if I ran one of these nations, I'd be fucking paranoid, too.

Dylan Martinez
Dylan Martinez

if I ran one of these nations, I'd be fucking paranoid, too.

Yeah, especially because of Operation Earnest Voice

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Earnest_Voice

Jacob Wright
Jacob Wright

Psyechedelis encourages people to question the system, primarily through starting to feel that theyre enslaved through wageslaving.
You do realize that he's fucking right. psychedelics such as LSD were used by the CIA to experiment on people in controlling them. It was called MK-Ultra, some declassified documents already exist on the net.

Bentley Green
Bentley Green

psychedelics such as LSD were used by the CIA to experiment on people in controlling them. It was called MK-Ultra, some declassified documents already exist on the net.
Okay, they experimented, doesn't mean it was successful in their estimation…. I'm certain lots of govs & orgs have experimented on tonnes of substances to determine properties that would advance their work(s)…

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Sebastian Scott
Sebastian Scott

Stop sperging about rock and roll. Post actual peak proletarian art instead.

Attached: musical.mp4 (3.03 MB, 480x250)
Attached: whereSUwentwrong.mp4 (4.54 MB, 480x360)
Attached: Milan.mp4 (3.35 MB, 480x360)

Noah Young
Noah Young

they experimented, doesn't mean it was successful in their estimation
No, it means they didn't tell us what succeeded.

Henry Scott
Henry Scott

I am nostalgic for past never experienced.

Attached: Руся---Русалонька.mp4 (13.28 MB, 656x480)

Noah Edwards
Noah Edwards

Hi, i'm from /x/, let me explain what happened with MKULTRA
CIA experiments with LSD to see if it is capable of inducing a state in which people can be convinced to do things that they would never normally do
Tries to induce split personality disorder and uses "triggers" to attempt to turn people into monsters that are capable of killing enemies of the state
Also uses different businesses as a cover, so people that might be going to see a doctor for a checkup might end up being chained to a bed and forced to ingest LSD and forced to watch brainwashing videos on loop
CIA discovers that LSD is more likely to cause people to question their surroundings than to induce a state in which they are easily lied to
testing is cancelled because LSD is "unreliable"
Meanwhile, during the 1960s (which is when MKULTRA largely happened), this is when large-scale anti-drug campaigns began, spreading lies that LSD "fries your brain" and "turns you into a zombified hippy".
Turns out those things aren't true, either.

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Ayden Fisher
Ayden Fisher

So LSD used as means to invent new US culture coz old culture going to bankrupt?

Daniel Miller
Daniel Miller

Soviet morning workout music is unironically and literally the peak of human culture:
youtu.be/qbohqFF2DrM

Luke Hall
Luke Hall

Death grips
Deafheaven
/mu/ newfag detected

Colton Cooper
Colton Cooper

Attached: Eduard-Khil---Pal-Take-Your-Coat.mp4 (7.82 MB, 320x240)

Kayden Martin
Kayden Martin

Turns out those things aren't true
<Literally know someone who did LSD resulting in him getting mentally fucked.
LSD is not a safe thing.

Justin Hernandez
Justin Hernandez

LSD is not a safe thing.
Nigga please…

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Julian Gonzalez
Julian Gonzalez

medicalnewstoday.com/articles/295966.php

Jace Robinson
Jace Robinson

What in that article gives you the impression LSD is either a good, or bad, thing exactly?

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Lucas Torres
Lucas Torres

One of the dangers is that LSD can trigger a long-term psychotic state or induce schizophrenia in susceptible individuals.
Doubt.

Michael Perez
Michael Perez

induce schizophrenia in susceptible individuals.
It doesn't work like that, schizophrenia needs to be triggered, brought out. It's not something EVERYONE can get, it's something certain individuals already have and is triggered by some situation.
For example, one of the shizos we spoke with while doing our practice in a mental health hospital, is a electronics professor at a local university who's schizophrenia got triggered by the fear he lived through during the NATO bombing of 99, since he was a ammunition depot overseer.

Levi Stewart
Levi Stewart

Got more?

Attached: Наутилус-Помпилиус---Скованные-одной-цепью.mp4 (9.7 MB, 400x220)

Matthew Price
Matthew Price

Rock music is CIA

What fucking savages. This is literally magical thinking.

OP, the answer is simply that USSR, along with the rest of Warsaw pact, was fearful of foreign influence and its leaders were retarded old farts who didn't have a iota of political sense which could've helped them compensate for the bans. There is no benefit to banning music, ever. Everyone who tells otherwise is a fascist kinda by definition.

Jose Gray
Jose Gray

Metal has always attracted fascists.

Hunter Rivera
Hunter Rivera

There was a study of commercial music since the 60's. They found in the last 30 years music has become increasing homogenised and formulaic. As in they measured higher variance in musical sounds in "pop" music earlier in the century. It's not hard to explain either - in the early days of rock/pop they had to take a totally blind risk on creating a record to sell. That involved finding a whole assortment of proletarian artists playing whatever they wanted. Now "pop" or mass music is manufactured so there's no financial risk - and it gives the bourgeois elite the power to enforce what is popular. So I think that explains why people have that sentiment towards music. My own dweeb opinion is that music can undermine the interests of commerce if the proletariat use it to influence culture. at least I think that might explain this:
mic.com/articles/107896/scientists-finally-prove-why-pop-music-all-sounds-the-same
archive.is/z79zU - article on how basically every song in popular music is written by the same handful of people, if anyone doesn't already know. I've always found it mildly surreal to hear people referring to the music and public persona of popstars as if they're individual humans expressing themselves. Barring a tiny handful who accrue enough power to talk terms to the suits, they're just interchangeable masks on a vast machine, with all their feuds and dramas as fake as fucking pro wrestling. At least South Korea is upfront about it, explicitly treating their popstars as disposable company employees for the most part.

Josiah Wood
Josiah Wood

if that were true, all but a handful of media ever made was produced coercively.
Shostakovich's 13th Symphony (and that was censored later) , maybe some Vajrayana or Taoist stuff in Asia but that was before media, some weird primitivist shit the crazier of the narodniks did on the side and that's that I think.

Of course art has always been under coercion and used to coerce, and even when its production is free, its dissemination almost never is.

Kevin Gomez
Kevin Gomez

if you support bans on music because it's somehow bourgeois then you're an autistic retard lol

Grazhdanskaya Oborona is badass if you want raw Soviet post-punk.
youtube.com/watch?v=KPCkfVpzsC4

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Colton Bennett
Colton Bennett

Talks about Civil Defence
<Forgets to mention THEY ARE LITERALLY WHERE NAZBOL COMES FROM
Shame upon you user.

Aiden Sanders
Aiden Sanders

Is she deep undercover student of Limonov?
Also how can she be so perfect?

And I don't know much about sovietwave, but you sovietboos are gonna like this too
youtu.be/UoHkcK_tOj4

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Jacob Parker
Jacob Parker

youtube.com/watch?v=TqWIe4Exk7E

Joshua Wilson
Joshua Wilson

youtu.be/Hy1D-EewVMs
^Honestly their best track IMO, sums-up the dying years of the USSR so perfectly.

Ian Harris
Ian Harris

screaming jungle music

hoxha was baboonposting before it was cool.

Charles Edwards
Charles Edwards

Progress Publishers had a book on Rock in the USSR

archive.org/details/sovietrock25year00zait

Matthew Barnes
Matthew Barnes

lmao found this

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Nathan Brown
Nathan Brown

Again, NazBol literally came from the Russian punk movement: because in a period of Perestroika, the edgiest thing you could do was unironically Praise Stalin.

Benjamin Murphy
Benjamin Murphy

what about jazz? this jazz version of the international from Michael Moore's"Capitalism: a love story" it's pretty based

youtube.com/watch?v=3JmFa2Q40lg

Jordan Ortiz
Jordan Ortiz

jazz

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Joseph Sanders
Joseph Sanders

Jazz originates from the music made by African Slaves in the South, mixing both African and other musical styles. The USSR had plenty of Jazz musicians and composers.

Jaxson White
Jaxson White

degeneracy
go back

Justin Morgan
Justin Morgan

i never expected grazhdanskaya oborona posted on leftypol even though they are soviet

Nicholas Watson
Nicholas Watson

Егор Летов was /lit/'s egregore from the very start, they were just too Anglo too realise.

Oliver Mitchell
Oliver Mitchell

bump

Logan Powell
Logan Powell

youtube.com/watch?v=ODLlWb5Oilg

Carter Wright
Carter Wright

Too subversive for the proles.

Jack Reed
Jack Reed

much*

Nicholas Sanders
Nicholas Sanders

If any form of music is examined too closely it will appear either reactionary or bourgeois.
Classical music is bourgeois on its face. It is certainly not proletarian in nature, as composers are more like craftsmen and wage-laborers, and its history is steeped in fulfilling the desires of the bourgeoisie.
Folk music is generally rather reactionary inherently. One may argue to the contrary, that it is a true music of the people, and, in a sense, this is true. However, it is still reactionary by its own nature.
Rock and pop music able to be both due to its origins in the folk tradition of the blues and propagation by the bourgeois. It retains the misogyny and religiosity, among other things to numerous to list, while lacking the communal ownership and non-commodification.

I will share an anecdote: Cornelius Cardew was a musician who began as a student of modernist classical music. He composed serialist 12-tone music and computer music, before moving into composing and performing improvisational and aleatory music. In a moment of epiphany, he disavowed his mentor Karl Stockhausen and nearly all of his previous work, on the grounds it was bourgeois, and dedicated himself to writing show-tune-like songs meant for working class consumption and the spreading of communist messages that he called "People's Liberation Music." At the same time, he rejected rock music, calling David Bowie, The Clash, and the punk movement as a whole, fascist.

The material analysis of music in bourgeois society will almost inevitably lead to the conclusion that essentially all music is bourgeois. Frankly, that conclusion is not incorrect, the music a society produces is determined by its material conditions.

I would note Adorno later recanted his views on Jazz, which he had only experienced through the gratuitous big bands of the 30's and 40's.
The methodology and library surveyed by that study don't entirely reflect the face of "popular music," which, in and of itself, is a term of contention.

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Carter Nelson
Carter Nelson

This no fun allowed attitude party had towards culture is pretty much the biggest spook against socialism young people in Russia have today.
They're afraid not of KGB, gulags and shortages but a party of old clueless farts taking their pop music and shitty TV shows away.
If MLs ever come to power again they should focus on the material base and don't try to engineer how people think.

Joseph Gutierrez
Joseph Gutierrez

And the thing is , 20s USSR was an avantgarde magnet for all of Europe, so maybe killing Mayakovsky was a shit choice.

Carter Gomez
Carter Gomez

capitalists dont engineer how people think through pop music and shitty TV
It was good that Stalin rid the revolution of its reactioary petit-bourg elements in the form of the artists.

Wyatt Clark
Wyatt Clark

Well he also said a poet is an engineer of the soul and why the fuck do tankies have such a problem with books? Mein Gott.

Lucas Anderson
Lucas Anderson

Because they immerse themselves in their own world and their interests increasingly diverge from those of the masses. They also hold an inordinate amount of control, just look at how much money streamers are paid by corporations to shill their shit. They shape the way people think and therefore act and the author is not "neutral" but propagates an ideology which suits his class, whether conciously or not.

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Nicholas Cook
Nicholas Cook

I agree with what you say and this shilling is more than disgusting I suppose, but these are all reasons for Communists to support art and let the avantgarde loose, too. I mean e.g. Mayakovsky and Shostakovich are rabid attack dogs against capitalism and still semiliterate cops and censors bullied them. Overbearing censorship was just a dumb idea which backfired, and my problem is more with internal than external censorship, but both served as faultlines in the long run.

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Jaxson Brown
Jaxson Brown

it was a form of propaganda. a lot of lyrics in industrial/metal music spoke about the hardships of living in Eastern Bloc countries. officials didn't like that.

Benjamin Sullivan
Benjamin Sullivan

Leon Trotsky
Literature and Revolution (1924)
Chapter 8
Revolutionary and Socialist Art

WHEN one speaks of revolutionary art, two kinds of artistic phenomena are meant: the works whose themes reflect the Revolution, and the works which are not connected with the Revolution in theme, but are thoroughly imbued with it, and are Colored by the new consciousness arising out of the Revolution. These are phenomena which quite evidently belong, or could belong, in entirely different planes. … There is no revolutionary art as yet. There are the elements of this art, there are hints and attempts at it, and, what is most important, there is the revolutionary man, who is forming the new generation in his own image and who is more and more in need of this art. … Revolutionary art which inevitably reflects all the contradictions of a revolutionary social system, should not be confused with Socialist art for which no basis has as yet been made. On the other hand, one must not forget that Socialist art will grow out of the art of this transition period.

In insisting on such a distinction, we are not at all guided by a pedantic consideration of an abstract program. Not for nothing did Engels speak of the Socialist Revolution as a leap from the kingdom of necessity to the kingdom of freedom. The Revolution itself is not as yet the kingdom of freedom. On the contrary, it is developing the features of “necessity” to the greatest degree. Socialism will abolish class antagonisms, as well as classes, but the Revolution carries the class struggle to its highest tension. During the period of revolution, only that literature which promotes the consolidation of the workers in their struggle against the exploiters is necessary and progressive. Revolutionary literature cannot but be imbued with a spirit of social hatred, which is a creative historic factor in an epoch of proletarian dictatorship. Under Socialism, solidarity will be the basis of society. Literature and art will be tuned to a different key. All the emotions which we revolutionists, at the present time, feel apprehensive of naming – so much have they been worn thin by hypocrites and vulgarians – such as disinterested friendship, love for one’s neighbor, sympathy, will be the mighty ringing chords of Socialist poetry.

Bentley Miller
Bentley Miller

(cont.)
I have no doubt at all – if I may speak my own point of view – that our theater is terribly in need of a new realistic revolutionary repertory, and above all, of a Soviet comedy. … we need simply a Soviet comedy of manners, one of laughter and of indignation. I am using the terms out of the old literature text-books on purpose, and I am not in the least afraid of being accused of going backwards. A new class, a new life, new vices and new stupidity, demand that they shall be released from silence, and when this will happen we will have a new dramatic art, for it is impossible to reproduce the new stupidity without new methods. How many new minors are tremblingly waiting to be represented on the stage? How much woe is there from being too wise, or from pretending to be too wise, and how good it would be if a stage Inspector General would walk across our Soviet life. Please do not point to the dramatic censorship, because that is not true. Of course, if your comedy will try to say: “See what we have been brought to; let us go back to the nice old nobleman’s nest” – then, of course, the censorship will sit on your comedy, and will do so with propriety. But if your comedy will say: “We are building a new life now, and yet how much piggishness, vulgarity and knavery of the old and of the new are about us; let us make a clean sweep of them”, then, of course, the censorship will not interfere, and if it will interfere somewhere it will do so foolishly, and all of us will fight such a censorship.

Sebastian King
Sebastian King

They didn't ban all of it except when it first came out. Later most of it was banned because most songs were full of anarchist-libertarian edge in the lyrics. Songs like I Wanna Rock (for example) encouraged spurning the establishment… just for kicks
The youth of the USSR, hearing this 'brilliant' shit that was essentially 'fug uthority' were influenced by this, letting trickles of pro-capitalist sentiment in which snowballed into betrayal and pro-capitalists like Gorby getting control.
I'm pretty sure the USSR's troubled economic situation and its expensive foreign commitments (in Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Cambodia, Nicaragua, Angola, etc.) were factors that led to "pro-capitalists like Gorby getting control," not clandestine access to Twisted Sister albums. Hell, Gorby started off in office lamenting the corrosion of "socialist morality" and decided to fix things by restricting alcohol and enacting laws against prostitution, which (like basically everything else he ever did) didn't help.

Parker Murphy
Parker Murphy

Gorby started off in office lamenting the corrosion of "socialist morality"
Which was his excuse to loosen shit with the Glastnost. You didn't live there so you don't understand how this shit affected people. The youth had a ridiculous concept of an awesome America and were scornful of the USSR.

Michael Gray
Michael Gray

German here, it was even more extreme here between the West-East divide. There were legitimate problems in the GDR, such as the foreign debt and an overaged political caste, but the level of development was largely the same. But the way people in East though about the West was insanely distorted, partly due to propaganda efforts of the West. In Berlin, they built luxury shopping centres next to the wall for Easterners to look at. Many East Germans literally thought that everybody in West Germany was driving a Mercedes, makes a vacation to Rimini every month and wears Dolce and Gabbana. There were rumors in East Germany that in West Germany even the unemployed drive a BMW and go out to an Italian restaurant every week, and due to that, the GDR's zero unemployment and "right to work" suddenly seemed a lot less appealing. When the wall came down, every GDR citizen got like a hundred Mark from the West German government just for stepping over the border, right after being thrown into the shopping centres of West Berlin. After they experienced that, the GDR was finished. Of course, depression and disappointment ensued after the reunification turned out to be the opposite of all that was promised.

For all their supposed "brainwashing" and propaganda the West likes to blame the East for, they really did a shit job to dispell myths of a West where even the homeless people have expensive watches.

Adam Butler
Adam Butler

Have you watched the film "Goodbye Lenin"? What do you think?

Jonathan Sanders
Jonathan Sanders

god, please let these be satire

Isaiah Brown
Isaiah Brown

It's better to let the people experiment freely, even if that includes both hits and misses, and gradually explore their own artistic freedom with the inevitable failures along the way, than to restrict every artistic outlet they have and keep them dependent on a strict censor as it also happened in Nazi Germany.

Leo Hernandez
Leo Hernandez

Which was his excuse to loosen shit with the Glastnost.
Yes, and? Obviously it's hard to instill the idea of "socialist morality" in a population that increasingly regarded much of what was in the press as bullshit and which perceived party leaders as hypocrites who called for self-sacrifice in the spirit of Lenin in public while privately enjoying various privileges and imported goods from the West closed off to Soviet consumers.

You didn't live there so you don't understand how this shit affected people. The youth had a ridiculous concept of an awesome America and were scornful of the USSR.
I'm well aware that many Soviet citizens had a distorted view of the United States. That doesn't change the fact that the spread of Western rock music in the USSR had nothing to do with Gorbachev entering office. His colleagues in the Politburo weren't exactly the types to listen to Slayer.

Matthew Morris
Matthew Morris

keep them dependent on a strict censor
You do realize that censoring in the USSR was based around 2 things: whether it was actually well written, and whether it was openly anti-socialist/anti-authoritarian

Even many authors like Bulgakov were allowed to write books and plays and other media despite anti-soviet aspects because they were well written enough to be allowed.
This
EXACTLY

Sebastian James
Sebastian James

Yeah I did. It was a long time ago so I don't really remember how they portrayed it all. But I don't think they were dishonest towards the GDR. People were proud of their achievements, like Sigmund Jähn, the first German in space, and their own brands. They had their own coke vs. Pepsi thing going on, with Vita Cola and Club-Cola. Both was healthier than Coca-Cola and Pepsi and tasted as good. I still drink it. Good times.

The subculture thing talked about ITT wasn't a thing in the GDR - maybe in the USSR but the GDR had punks, metalheads, all kinds of goths, electronic music, a gay scene, greasers etc. - there was a time when the police was observing them somewhat but they were mostly categorised as "unpolitical" - check pic related. The only ones that were bullied were Neo-Nazi skinheads.

Jace Robinson
Jace Robinson

Forgot pic

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William Davis
William Davis

Oh and also let me say that most social repressions were annulled by the mid-80s, they even started producing movies about the struggle or LGBT people, if the GDR was around today it would probably have been more socially liberal then the FRG.

Luis Ward
Luis Ward

1. GDR could have become the good version of Sweden.
2. Please tell me you have more of those tables, I love that shit, Stasi really were the best critical theorists and everyone knows that.

Wyatt Ortiz
Wyatt Ortiz

Is there a better quality version? I can barely read the text.

Camden Nelson
Camden Nelson

k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/004500.html
good read about stoners but apply it more generally

Anthony Howard
Anthony Howard

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Asher King
Asher King

They banned only the bourgeois culture meant to provoke the Socialist system. Some rock musicians did perform in Socialist states, including Laibach's performance in North Korea recently.

youtube.com/watch?v=hS78vyLezkc

Colton Gray
Colton Gray

Because it was created in the bourgeois capitalist west during the cold war, I would be far more surprised if they didn't ban it. Western bourgoise cultural infiltration in the East was simply not welcome, which is completely understandable.

Brody Diaz
Brody Diaz

Planned degeneracy
poltard please

Josiah Sanders
Josiah Sanders

The People's Republic of Hungary had a pretty good rock scene. It wasn't even an underground scene, there were huge public concerts and festivals. And the state didn't really mind.

youtube.com/watch?v=RjZZ8BkMzRI
youtube.com/watch?v=CGt-rTDkMcM
youtube.com/watch?v=GhHrjlJvw_8
youtube.com/watch?v=at8NQGMAggY
youtube.com/watch?v=t4jlBWHk4UA
youtube.com/watch?v=XpR90i4seRU

Colton Stewart
Colton Stewart

No wonder they don't exist anymore.

Bentley Thomas
Bentley Thomas

I’ve always been somewhat aware of this but you know what’s strange though? Despite punk music being completely big industry manufactured rebelliousness, it’s been one of the few that’s had had some explicitly leftist oriented subcultures and scenes surrounding it. It makes think that detournment really is possible given the right conditions.

Owen Brown
Owen Brown

Punk music is not just the big bands that ended up on TV, most of the movement was about local bands doing shit on their own.

Colton Turner
Colton Turner

This is so pathetic. I can't believe they actually thought they could achieve the ultimate liberation within society by getting a bunch of old men to ban everything they don't like. Then you have all the retards ITT trying to defend classical music as the people's music whilst claiming pop music is just bourgeois trash. The soviet state was just a mess of contradictions, it was doomed from the very beginning. Leninism is an infantile disease.

Joseph Richardson
Joseph Richardson

Composed or "classical" music has the most artistic care put into it, the most work put behind.
Stop. What the actual fuck are you talking about. Classical is like the most bourgie, whitewashed genre that exist. The fucking composer LITERALLY has to enslave a whole orchestra to play their brainfart. Rock and the genres associated you can at least do with your friends without needing to have an access to giant expensive music halls, complicated instruments and time consuming and expensive musical education.

Also wouldn't an average todays pop song, with a corporate machine and thousand people behind it have more "artistic care and work" in it?

Modern times need modern music, you don't just play with the old stupid instruments when you got options. They'll go the way of bagpipes, and will only be missed by reactionary fucks.

-concerned citizen

Samuel Evans
Samuel Evans

Are you just going around the threads just to shit about the USSR? Are you that assblasted?
by getting a bunch of old men to ban everything they don't like.
A gross over-exaggeration if I ever heard one. You clearly don't understand why censorship was and is necessary, especially in the Cold War.
whilst claiming pop music is just bourgeois trash.
Because large amounts of it really is bourgeois trash.
The soviet state was just a mess of contradictions, it was doomed from the very beginning
Yep, sure, unlike the dozens of brilliant anarchist projects… oh wait

Anarchism is an infantile disease

Classical is like the most bourgie, whitewashed genre that exist.
T. never done composition or musical arrangement.
Pop music relies heavily on improvisation and currently autotune. Classical music relies on the practiced skill of musicians to play a piece of music with separate arrangements of notes for each instrument, that is done by 1 person who knows each instrument like the back of their hand. That is incomparable to a small group of youths who can play a guitar or drums or piano. It is very rare that pop music has professionals comparable to classical or Jazz composers, among whom are people like David Bowie or Freddy Mercury, in other words, rare people out of a genre with literally hundreds of groups.
Rock and the genres associated you can at least do with your friends without needing to have an access to giant expensive music halls
That doesn't make it more or less bourgeois. The context of the song and the context of the creator does. Its why something like Simple Song of Freedom is bad. You can play it and sing it on a guitar, alone, but ideologically the song is a bunch of anti-soviet crap.This can be applied to a long list of pop musicians and pieces.
wouldn't an average todays pop song, with a corporate machine and thousand people behind it have more "artistic care and work" in it?
No, it's not. Corporate machines and their ad campaigns and other crap have no artistic value relative to the actual music or musicians. They're not writing the music or playing it, they're just distributing it.
Modern times need modern music
No-one denies that. But modern music should be held up to a certain standard, no?
They'll go the way of bagpipes
As in still be used today hundreds of years after introduction? Classical music was and remains extremely popular as does Jazz music. Old 'stupid' instruments as you so tastelessly called them were designed carefully by people, and your dismissal is downright ignorant.
time consuming and expensive musical education.
If you want to be a musician you have to understand it, otherwise you're just fooling around and making noise. And do you think pop-artists who wrote music had no education in music, or didn't at least self-educate? You need SOMETHING of an education to actually compose music, even in the basal pop-variant we usually see.

lastly, listen to Mozart or Beethhoven or even mp4 related and tell me that it's garbage. If you do say so, then you can safely sign yourself into a mental institution for having shit taste.

Attached: Фредерик-Шопен-Вальс-до-#-минор-№-7.mp4 (4.32 MB, 320x240)

Brody Parker
Brody Parker

meant to tag as well

Charles Jones
Charles Jones

Okay, let me re-iterate, since you don't seem to notice the problem with your thinking.

Music is HUMAN. We are naturally inclined in doing music, singing, dancing, playing and everything else it includes. What classical and modern pop BOTH gets wrong is that their music is designed to fill a venue with just listeners. People sitting around doing nothing is never productive. In modern concerts you at least are allowed to dance.

It is so much easier for me to stand behind folk or punk or even electronic, because of them being actually inclusive, and letting people to make noise even when they suck at it.

P.S. the song is pretty, but i doubt you can get it to sound over highways, construction sites and other shit. World today is FUCKING LOUD, and if Mozart, Beethoven, or even fucking Bach lived today, they would have gripped the electric guitar or laptop, instead of just drooling over the old masters.

Attached: Composement.jpg (2.46 MB, 2560x3312)

Ayden Sanders
Ayden Sanders

Pic
<String Quartet from 1101 BC
Is that supposed to be a good example?

Music is HUMAN. We are naturally inclined in doing music, singing, dancing, playing and everything else it includes.
Yes I know.
their music is designed to fill a venue with just listeners. People sitting around doing nothing is never productive. In modern concerts you at least are allowed to dance.
Have you never heard of a Waltz? Moreover the entire reason some classical music is just for listening is because the point is to focus on hearing that, a beautiful meditation of sorts.
It is so much easier for me to stand behind folk or punk or even electronic, because of them being actually inclusive, and letting people to make noise even when they suck at it.
You're making inclusivity the bar of what makes music good? Eh?

World today is FUCKING LOUD, and if Mozart, Beethoven, or even fucking Bach lived today, they would have gripped the electric guitar or laptop, instead of just drooling over the old masters.
Say what you will, 1 music genre does not exclude another.

Daniel Robinson
Daniel Robinson

You clearly don't understand why censorship was and is necessary, especially in the Cold War.
It was so necessary people people willingly plunged the country to it's neoliberal death just to have the censorship gone.

Kayden Clark
Kayden Clark

Gorby removing the censorship did not placate people but turn the educated urbanites into westaboos wanting to destroy it all to become middle class westerners.

Charles Bell
Charles Bell

the people willingly plunged the country into neo-liberal death
Except that historically untrue. The people not only were against glasnost and the perestroika but were forcibly repressed. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Jackson Myers
Jackson Myers

Shit happens
Deal with it

Isaiah Lee
Isaiah Lee

Is that supposed to be a good example?
It's objectively the best song in existence, even better than Circus Gallop (which I use to meditate), you fucking philistine.

Isaac Cook
Isaac Cook

King Crimson? Good taste, Commie.

Ethan Turner
Ethan Turner

objectively the best song in existence
LOL

Anthony Bell
Anthony Bell

rock music was the k-pop of America before pop was a thing

Ian Hall
Ian Hall

adorno was talking about popular jazz which was riddled with triteness and cliche

Ian Sanders
Ian Sanders

But you DO see the problem with having only classical music, as beautiful as it is? It is elitist as fuck, so it doesn't let majority of people to vent out their pain.

Owen Thomas
Owen Thomas

you DO see the problem with having only classical music, as beautiful as it is
Yes
elitist
Eh that's arguable but I get your point.

Aiden Mitchell
Aiden Mitchell

was riddled with triteness and cliche
Doubt.jpg

Jonathan King
Jonathan King

the shittiest of the shitty Industry culture and they always delivered neoliberal or contrarian post-modern ideas in the form of "hip and cool".
i wish the ussr actually banned all rocknroll and metal.
also all metal sucks ass and only some non mainstream experimental rock bands were good
youtube.com/watch?v=fhiNtanvImg

Attached: ClipboardImage.png (96.17 KB, 209x204)

Jaxson Morgan
Jaxson Morgan

all metal sucks ass
That's not true, though death metal and stuff like that is pretty shite.

Jose Jones
Jose Jones

rock music is hippie bullshite in 60s when black panthers were organizing, fighting against the bourgeoisie imperialists and protecting the rights of working class these hippie liberal assholes wore flowers on their heads, took acid and played rock n roll. and cia funded this hippie acid rock music revolution.
after cia destroyed black panthers they funded the ghetto/thug culture for blacks for stoping them from getting radicalized, educated and making them "proud" of thug/ghetto culture. so hip/hop is also a cia conspiracy to make black people suffer systematically.

Adam Thomas
Adam Thomas

based

Hunter Jackson
Hunter Jackson

Defining artistic movements as “bourgeois” is dumb, and does nothing but alienate the actual working class from your “mass movement” of armchair leftists.

Demanding censorship and believing that “Western influences” are enough to bring down the entire social order is inherently idealist, and reeks of prudish conservative rhetoric.

Elijah Morris
Elijah Morris

reeks of prudish conservative
Media affects the mind, music is media. Media that is anti-collectivist/chaotic is more encouraging of chaos. stop ignoring what people say and may such general statements.

Parker Gonzalez
Parker Gonzalez

name great bands that are commie nations. you cant.
King Crimson is from the King's England, and all the best music A. comes from White men and B. comes from capitalist countries which afford someone to buy a fucking guitar and then make a living as a musician

commies dont get music. you get bread line.

Tyler Kelly
Tyler Kelly

degenerate rock music
great

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Connor Hill
Connor Hill

Soviet union was selling guitars and making a living as a musician was an absolutely viable choice. More viable than in capitalist countries, even, since you could get your music education for free.

Jose Hughes
Jose Hughes

Rock MUSIC is dope.
Rock MUSICIANS, historically, are just lumpen or backwards proles who got fortuitously catapulted into riches, and used it as an opportunity to run on coke and underage pussy.
Sure, there are exceptions, and you can find rock musicians that are intelligent and write intelligent lyrics, but I can't really blame the hesitant attitude of the Soviets.

Nolan Rogers
Nolan Rogers

Because they were conservative regimes, the difference between them and the rest was that they referred to non-conservative things as "bourgeois decadence of the rotten west" instead of "degeneracy".

Aaron Miller
Aaron Miller

I mean I can see why. A lot of the people into Rock and on that scenes are mostly anarkiddies that do a lot of drugs from my pov. Many of them today hate all authority and that includes socialist states and regular shit on USSR and its legacy as well as Cuba, Maoist China, etc.

And as the one GDR poster pointed out, a lot of it was to try and spread middle class bourg culture to the kids and it worked and they got fucked over.

Joshua Cox
Joshua Cox

They were based and right about everything

"Any kind of revolution in sex, music, fashion. Any kind of revolution, except the social revolution"
m.youtube.com/watch?v=y9z2o0DFsoc

Caleb White
Caleb White

rap music
literally the most pro-capitalist music that has ever existed. It's 100% horatio algier.

The only non-capitalist rap music is the backpacker stuff that only bourgie whites listen to. Really makes you think.

Attached: maxresdefault.jpg (117.66 KB, 1280x720)

Joseph Rodriguez
Joseph Rodriguez

m.youtube.com/watch?v=8PaoLy7PHwk

Hunter Cruz
Hunter Cruz

great bands that are commie nations
Great bands that ARE commie nations? I didn't know the Beatles was a nation…

Also I can name you dozens of renowned 'bands'

Edelweisse, a Jazz Big Band
Kino, a rock band
Lyube, a rock band
Rammstein is a re-named East German rock band BTW

afford someone to buy a fucking guitar
Brand new electric guitars cost the equivalent of roughly 5-10 dollars in the USSR. In the USA today a brand new guitar is 50 bucks or more, i know because I have bought them. In the USSR, where art was considered serious, becoming a musician required serious skill and hard work, rather than mediocre ability.

Isaiah Jenkins
Isaiah Jenkins

Have you ever listen to rap before it became a mainstream pop thing?

Listen to Tupac, or Lowkey, or Marcel Cartier, or Gangsta's Paradise.

Rap was appropriated by capitalism just like anything else.

Ayden Allen
Ayden Allen

Rock Music isn't linked to the CIA!
Serbias Отпор protests which were directly linked to CIA funding and its leaders to CIA training used Rock Music Concerts to promote their ideas.

Elijah Barnes
Elijah Barnes

ITT: retards unable to admit that the Soviet Union ever made mistakes.

Eli Sanders
Eli Sanders

Correct, their scope and enforcement of media control were insufficient.

Ethan Morgan
Ethan Morgan

How are you people any different from the DSA normies who obsess over Hollywood representation? They put more black people in movies, or the villain of a movie is an evil corporation. People seeing this will become less racist and anti capitalist. You're just red fascists, and this is coming from a tankie.

Jackson Thomas
Jackson Thomas

What about prog rock? I found these guys.
youtube.com/watch?v=T6WYKIJjdUs

Brody Lewis
Brody Lewis

For the people claiming their objection to rock music is that it propagates capitalist mindsets, what about independent punk music which was largely anti-capitalist?

Jose Smith
Jose Smith

They promote individualism and anarchy. It was only anticapitalist in so far as capitalism was "the man", they are a bunch of wreckers who would attack socialism too if it was dominant in order to take advantage of the drive for rebellion to get underage pussy and drugs.

Ethan Price
Ethan Price

Bands like Chumbawamba, Oi Polloi, Gang of Four, etc. were very principally anti capitalist. You are like a 50 Autism Level boomer.

Julian Gutierrez
Julian Gutierrez

How are you people any different from the DSA normies who obsess over Hollywood representation
because we're not basing it on idpol or other liberal bullshit but on the measure of quality and preventing bourgeoisie propaganda from getting in. People decrying Soviet censorship like this are idiots who don't understand the geopolitical tensions of the time. Do you think Soviet media didn't go very far outside the USSR because it wasn't good enough? It was because the USA blocked that shit at every turn. Soviet films and music would get lucky if they got to participate in film and music festivals in Europe and in miniscule numbers.
The Soviet censorship created a high level of quality in media. Not all Western writers were permitted but the ones that were got published and translated based on their quality. Was such censorship perfect? No. Was it needed? Yes. The results of Glasnost demonstrated that media censorship is required to prevent people from being over-saturated and confused by hundreds of opinions and works that aren't always worth much.
Bulgakov and Sholohov had their works published while Solzhenitsyn did not, despite the former 2 authors also writing about problems with the USSR and Bolsheviks and Gulags. Because Solzhenitsyn was a hack and they were not.

You're red fascists
this is coming from a tankie
LOL

They're anti-capitalist general-spectrum anarchists who would become counter-revolutionaries under socialism due to 'muh state'
<Hurr durr ur a boomer
Piss off.

Andrew Hernandez
Andrew Hernandez

because we're not basing it on idpol or other liberal bullshit

1) Yeah you are, you're calling for a ban on media based on the identity of those involved. You just spitting out idpol like that makes me think you might be kind of young/stupid.
2) Objective quality in art, very not fascist outlook.

People decrying Soviet censorship like this are idiots who don't understand the geopolitical tensions

In this same post, you're attributing the end of the USSR to its inability to control the influx of new information and concepts amongst its population. Your reaction isn't "the way it dealt with controlling these ideas and information was wrong", but "we need to crank up the control of information to god like omniscience". This is dogmatism, fetishism and conservatism. You are a bad "communist".

Was such censorship perfect? No. Was it needed? Yes. The results of Glasnost demonstrated that media censorship is required to prevent people from being over-saturated and confused by hundreds of opinions and works that aren't always worth much.

If you actually think the USSR wasn't on the way out before Glasnost, you are historically ignorant. The state had been revisionist for decades. If you're conscious of this, but somehow think that doom was spelled by popular music: you are retarded.

the ones that were got published and translated based on their quality.

Not sure if serious. Do you actually think work only has artistic merit if it conforms to ideological values? Genuine question. Do you not like a single piece of art that you could consider reactionary? Because arguing that reactionary work needs to be banned to safeguard the precious proletariat is one argument, and arguing that reactionary art can have no artistic value (insane: see ballet, opera, etc. all championed by the USSR despite having its roots so deeply entrenched in reaction) are two separate arguments.

general sectarianism against anarchokiddies

Do you think anarchists are completely incapable of changing perspectives and that they should all be exterminated? I used to sympathise with anarchism and a MLM now based on my own studying. Should people not be afforded that right? You just sound like a bourgeois closeted reactionary: this art popular with the proletariat is sickening and bad, I must dictate what they can and can't like, the masses who don't conform to my ideology must be destroyed.

I suggest you think less of yourself and more of the masses regarding political topics. You are dogmatorevisionist, overzealous and very silly.