Criticize anons state structure thesis!!!

I support communistic dual structuralist statism(doesnt seem to be a thing user makes another term"unless shown otherwise please do")! When I say that its merely a suggestion for state structure Im throwing out there. thats within the framework of communism. I believe there should be 2 bodies of mass social organization! Those 2 bodies are the production collective and the state! Both these bodies play roles as I will explain below

1.The production collective

(Thou its a massive organisations there are local branchs for each and evey trade service etc…)

2.the state

(Lets say were putting in a cross continent 400km speed train the state would over see it. by the way the train engineering union(a subsection of the broader production collective oversees it you controlled it not a corporation)
Want to leave the country?lol want to sell a car?want to take some tabs? want to distribute cigs on the corner?what a libertarian paradise

Anons this is no where near complete I just want to bounce it of people.

Remember all im throwing out there is that there should be 2 international organizations!(both having for planing… regional areas)1. the production collective (the worldwide workers union is in control of production)
2.(the state basically its helper agent!)

If you think my proposel deserves no consideration point it out!

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I support dual structuralist statism!!! Doesn't seem to be a thing user makes another term,correct me if wrong! When I say that its merely a suggestion for state structure Im throwing out there.Thats within the framework of communism. I believe there should be 2 bodies of mass social organization! Those 2 bodies are the production collective and the state! Both these bodies play roles as I will explain below

1.The production collective

(Thou its a massive organisations there are local branchs for each and every trade service etc…)


2.the state

Lets say were putting in a cross continent 400km speed train the state would over see it. How well by the train engineering union a subsection of the broader production collective they will oversees it you controlled it not a corporation.

Want to leave the country?lol want to sell a car?want to take some tabs? want to distribute cigs on the corner?what a libertarian paradise!


Remember all im throwing out there is that there should be 2 international organizations!(both being for planing… in regional areas)1. the production collective (the worldwide workers union is in control of production)
2.(the state basically its helper agent!)
Does the statistics or setting a universal high living standard!

Better gammar post forgive a user he will self edit harder in the future!!!

Honestly I just want something that provides the benefits of capitalism but doesn't destroy the environment, leave the rest to the engineers

I think thats this!!! Well did you read it what you think? (2nd one for better self edit)

Is it possible that these can truely never be seperate entities?

Who works for the second state? What prevents competition between regions? How is the commodity abolished?

As far as this is thought out it is a syndacalist new world order. Cockshott provides a better ideal, but ultimately the revolutionary state is going to be messy and imperfect. The important part is whether it's will can be imposed on the world.

"Who works for the second state"? Experts decided by the production collective! "What prevents competition between regions"? The proper planning to eliminate all scarcity and mutual agreement to be brief! No threat of scarcity no treat of resource based region conflict! How is the commodity abolished? A needs based needs provided based economy! Society is mathematically run on the satistics of a needs(A metric decided by the collective for it) in the 21st century's plus all wants!

Ultimately there are no such thing as the statistics of needs. The fact is there is no easy answer (like yours) to pull society into the socialist order. Scarcity is an eternal problem, especially with the fact that modern society rests on non-sustainable methods. Scarcity in some form will be here for the next one hundred years, hopefully guiding us to a sustainable world. But until then, it's shit. "How do we get to where you envision us?" is the call against the left which we must answer. And it is not written is ideals.

Stages this i end game

is*

Btw this is all compatible with cockshott

We have to be asking what exactly is going on with value in this model.

My first critique jumps on the following.

1. If this supposed state is based on planning, distribution, infrastructure then how does it differs from the production collective? When you are planning work on projects your firm is the one engaged in it's own developed work practices of how to do the work. There are planners etc. involved but close work needs to happen between specialists/team leaders to execute a plan (this is more specific to scalable industries like construction, healthcare etc.), why incorporate these people into a body that isn't already a part of the aggregate of producers? Economic Planning and distribution is a multi-disciplinary field that spreads accross all industries, these people are intellectual workers. It would unnecessarily elevates state workers into a body that has it's own interests.

This essentially forms a specialist class for the next mode of production, an educated technocratic layer of planners who aren't responsible to production as a producer. They are responsible to their own internal structure to deliver plans on time, this not only makes them antagonistic to workers, but implies a competitive structure within this state body to find new modes of scientific management over labour, which they receive as a slave class who must achieve a work. Moreover, what are the rights of this state body?

It may be a strata of people receiving workmen's wages as per the manifesto, but the body has some sort of special authority to receive a project and all of the value cost that will require it's enactment and to require of the production collective to deliver it. This is organised labour, sure, but it doesn't really deviate from the corporate contracting model except for the fact that it's not trying to deliver surplus value to an owning class. It still however falls into the problems of productivism, the economic race to the bottom in this case, is based on labour discipline. We can expect from this shoddy work, extended work days, increased labour intensity to deliver to the prestige of the members of this special body above production.

but this is already excluded by the fact that the production commune makes all the decisions regarding how production happens, this contradiction only results in either the planners or the workers having the say in how work is done. It invents class struggle again.

To mediate this struggle a judicial force needs to be invented to do so and now you have a third social body, is this to be part of the state or is judicial power exercisable by the production commune? is legal apparatus outside both bodies? A dictatorship of the proletariat would assume the production commune, but then it begs again the question, why the state structure in this model? It's interests are against the worker if it's existence is based upon the existence of the state. It's expenses are decided by law, let's say, then if it has the power to legislate, it's a battle royale between the state or the commune to empower or pay off representatives promising to legislate in it's favour and we've invented winchester democracy again and put it in the hands of a centralised courthouse of the worker's republic.

Moreover If they aren't arbiters of permissions for specialised activity like driving, I assume that if it is at a class of vehicle that is generally for economic distribution or requires specialised training that it will be handled by the production commune? This would require industry collaboration on different vehicle classes and at this point the production commune is already taking over the tasks of the state. If someone fails or is unable and decides to drive a vehicle they can't handle, how are they authorised/disauthorised for that activity? It would be a permit/qualification, unless there is something else?

If this state structure isn't planning the distribution of value for reproductive and non-productive social activity via taxation then what are they doing? what is their basis for existence then to be an unnecessary admiralty over the army of labour? If there is no military, police, parties, (real) planning or taxes then it's not a state and there is no reason to treat it as outside the sphere of production.

What you're describing as a state essentially functions like a centralised supercomputer that issues plan and commands. To have a mobile, molecular, on-site and integrated collection of intellectual workers who are part of production and are able to live within the commune is much more preferable.

The main political problem here is that it's somewhere in the highest stage of state-capitalism/lowest stage of lower communism but has all the social calling cards of a communist society. It is after the destruction of the state and before it at the same time.


Pic for attention. Also because society.

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I'm rather curious as to what the purpose of the "state" is in this setup. From what I can tell it seems to have no capacity to act in any serious manner to affect anything except being a broader scale version of the production collective.
I'm also unsure as to how the state in this manages to perform anything when the production is entirely out of its control.

Thanks guys for not out right calling me a retard(thou im probably am one) and adding on THANK YOU!!!!

So i was 30min into a deep point by point break down when i accidentally hit cut instead of copy! Was writing on phone !

So im gonna drop somepoints and maybe a shot lost 1000+ words like that!


What you're describing as a state essentially functions like a centralised supercomputer that issues plan and commands. To have a mobile, molecular, on-site and integrated collection of intellectual workers who are part of production and are able to live within the commune is much more preferable.

It is to be a stateless state!

I tell you what sense my extremely indepth response disappeared in a sec, re state in a smaller way for me the things in missed in the shorter response. I only did because of the pain of the first ones loss!

Guys if i made the time to make a 10-50 page pamphlet would anyone even bother with it?

Yeah, let's see what you've got

Its not made yet but ill probably make it over the next week,even if no one cares itll be for me.

I'll absolutely read it for you.
What's the subject and content of it to be?