Know what, fuck all these fucking class cucks, the 21st Century proletariat are pathetic, they’re disgusting, I would unironically rather end the human race in nuclear fire, I’d do it happily, than submit to this fate where the proles happily cuck themselves forever.
Posadist Gang FTW, fuck the 21st Century proles, disgusting class cuck motherfuckers
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m.youtube.com
youtube.com
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Bro, if people are electing fascists everywhere that’s not a fucking good sign
Do you think the 1920s-30s were the time when Germany and Italy came the closest to socialism?
Are you under the impression that the forces that push humanity through its development were "pushed back" because the Nazis got into power?
Yes? Like, wut? There was a revolutionary wave moving through Europe before the fash arose
And? The entire experience of the USSR was literal proof that the massive change in the superstructure of ideas of how a society runs is incapable of overcoming the basis of the forces that drive the development of a society. Certainly, it showed that the ideological changes in society have some control over the push through history given its current meta-ideology, but it was incapable of pushing past it, otherwise we wouldn't have needed the USSR as a social developmental stage in the first place.
Even if the entire ideological revolution had completely taken over Europe in the 1920's we would still have been bound to the rate of society's development.
Haha, pardon my ignorance, is there a more simple way of explaining this? Didn’t the USSR genuinely revolutionize their economy, social relations, and massively industrialize? They were proper socialists, no? Why was the time for socialism not then? We had the technology to do it already. All that happened was that reaction was incredibly powerful. And now that socialism lost back then it seems like the world might end.
Thoughts?
Of course they did, they massively changed themselves and showed that it was certainly possible for people to get together and consciously push the developmental forces of history forward. That is what made them socialist, and it is why the USSR was "building communism" rather than "communist".
If you believe that a continent-wide socialist revolt in the 1920s would have broken us out of capitalism, then you are saying that we could have somehow managed to get enough people together and simply declare that we are out of capitalism and have developed enough productive forces to actually be in socialism or communism, regardless of whether or not their society was physically developed enough to actually be there. This would have been the ultimate refutation of Marxism.
But how wasn’t society ready? Didn’t we already have the tech + socialized production?
Fascists don't get elected.
The USSR did not have the technology to get into a completely socialized production, no. Furthermore, it is not merely a question of the general level of technology, but a real question on the amount to which you can produce that technology, reproduce it, and reproduce the reproduction. This comes into a large question of how much labor power have you invested into tool development.
Fascists are still capitalists because they still choose to replace human power with machine power for the sake of multiplying their output, and all capitalists still drive the development of investment into tool usage, and therefore are still driving history towards socialism, whether they want it or not.
The only groups which could escape this drive towards history are groups that are already communal such as the Amish or monastics who do not seek to multiply their outputs, and primitivists who seek to actively fight tool usage (the only actual reactionaries). However, those groups that do seek to multiply their outputs will inevitably overcome any group that remains constant, so they really don't matter.
why do leftists always hate the proletariat so much
Because the proletariat is a fundamentally capitalist sector of society, which is a major contributing part of why a significant part of the proletariat is so personally odious (fascist sympathizers or a myriad of other reasons). The sooner it is abolished, the better.
Too many of them fill your ranks
Actually, I think that might have gone over your head, so I will put this into smaller words with more explanation.
The proletariat, the waged working class, is a systemic product of capitalism (that is, you need to have employees in order to be a business owner and employer). This means that the proletariat are going to carry with them the marks of the system that made them: the greed, the shifting alliances, the breakdown of national and ethnic ties, the acceptance of liberal ethic of law and so on. The proletariat is a mirror reflection of capitalism just as peasants are going to be a reflection of feudalism or slaves a reflection of slavery.
If you hate capitalism then it naturally follows that you are going to hate many of the aspects of capitalism. If you wish for society to proceed past capitalism and into socialism, you are naturally going to despise the reflections of capitalism that you see in the proletariat and wish for the proletariat to stop being the proletariat and become socialist citizens.
I hope you pay attention, fascist. If you stopped talking and started reading you wouldn't be where you are.
yeah but you think the proletariat will change if capitalism is abolished when they won't, their behavior is literally hard coded into their dna
ethnocentrism, tribalism, it's literally all hard coded into humans through evolution
Like the man said, open a fucking book
no YOU read a book
The Stalinists have betrayed the Indian workers over and over. There is no “socialist” party in India, all are sell outs. Fascism wins in the absence of a socialist aka Marxist vanguard leadership. But Modi and the fascists are barely hanging on to power. There will be massive strike waves in India that even the Stalinist trade unions can no longer keep under their control.
I'm sorry but your DNA is literally irrelevant in the face of the forces of the development of history. It literally does not matter even if you are right about every single thing about human nature, race, and genetics. See here.
I don't care whether or not you feel "genetically" driven to keep towards your own kind, you are literally overridden by the forces of the development and advancement of tool usage. You might be black, white, asian, jewish, some other entirely different non-human species. The forces of tool usage dictates that tools which multiply labor output will benefit best the group that is capable of multiplying its own output the most effectively, those groups that do not use tools as effectively, or those groups with inferior tools, are at a significant output disadvantage and will be wiped out. So what if humans are hardcoded to like other people who look like them? You are going to either adapt to an ethnically mixed group because it affords more labor power to be used towards the development of tool usage, or those tool-users who do accept this nature-defying change are going to overtake you because you are choosing to go against what is being selected.
You are fundamentally wrong.
wsws.org
Last January they called a two-day all India strike to protest the BJP government’s economic policies, along with the other unions, including the Congress Party union federation, the INTUC. Ten of millions of workers joined the strike, seeking a means to fight. But for the Stalinists it was a sordid maneuver aimed at furthering their campaign to politically derail the growing resistance of the working class, by harnessing it to the drive of a section of the bourgeoisie to replace the BJP with a “secular democratic” government—that is, with a big business government committed to “pro-market” reforms and the Indo-US anti-China military-strategic alliance.
The real attitude of the CPM, CPI, CITU and AITUC to the working class’ opposition to domestic and global capital’s drive to intensify exploitation is epitomized in their callous and criminal abandonment of the Maruti Suzuki class war prisoners.
Long disproven in what way? In the forever war America fights to keep its economy afloat and endless throw money at the MIC? The near collapse of the world economy just ten years ago? The fall in living standards for Western states? The massive increase in inequality? When as Marx proven wrong you dumb monkey? Anthropology, psychology, and just watching modern politics proves him more and more correct.
Whereas you legit believing in retarded long debunked race science crafted by inbred colonizers as the basis of your entire worldview
The funniest part is that this retard tried using evolution to explain that humans are completely incapable of change
Lmao fuckin fashies
negros and coloreds are literal dead weight. what tools do they use? they are an impediment and a nuisance wherever the roam.
if marx is so right where da communizsmz
And?
people who descend from people who evolved in climates between the tropics of cancer and Capricorn are literally biologically incapable of doing anything except milling about in the jungle waiting for berries to fall into their mouths
Unfounded and unsourced claims can be dismissed without consideration.
What have you accomplished in life? Do you even know anything about the history of Europe beyond the retarded war fetish fash zombies have? I bet you fantasize about the great Viking ancestors that would fucking murder you and savagely rape your family, right?
Fookin moron
Unscientific
This is legit retard-tier buddy
And? I'm waiting for some actual point instead of mindless, pointless "trigger the libs" edge.
i don't give a shit about the Vikings at all I just don't want PoC anywhere near me
they are a literal menace that makes my life difficult
how difficult is this to get
the point is you cannot deny the realities of human biodiversity, negros and other poc will not be a good fit for higher tier civilizations no matter how much you try to socialize them
Then fuck off and live on some island you dumb white monkey
Goddamn
Fucking up everyone else just cuz you can’t handle people having more melanin then your mutant inbred self
Lmao
I literally don't give a fuck.
why should I go live in an island to escape poc invading my lands? i am not going anywhere poc are the ones who should go to the islands (they literally evolved to live in tropical islands)
doesn't it get depressing denying reality everyday though? Communism will never come and fascism is eternal
Nobodies invading your land you dumb fucking mook
Maybe your governments should stop exploiting the Global South, starting Wars there, and destroying the environment there?
Ah, but fash monkeys don’t want that, do you?
There’s a reason why the cure for you fuckers is a bullet, straight to the heart
Communists will always have the last laugh. You're worried about literal caveman tier unga dunga where muh white womens at and I'm interested in the development of history for not only humanity, but for other species on the planet, over the course of the next millenium.
I have already won, fascist.
it's not my fault you niggers are too disorganized to run basic mines and every time y.p. poe show up to try to teach you how to run one you consider it "exploitation"
my homeland isn't be invaded? are you sure? I can't step outside the house without getting mos eisley cantina vibes everywhere I go. pocs everywhere. in every nook and cranny lurks a PoC. it's horrible.
majority of you don't even work you just sit all day shitting up the place selling drugs and making Rap music.
except for maybe some Hispanics. they're honestly OK. but even all they do is just drive down wages for wypipo.
bettered
the pocs are going to outbreed white people the only thing in your future is 20 billion poc leading the world to ecological disaster and canabalizing your ass raw in the town square
Why are you guys giving boonposter attention? You all should know very well he never argues in good faith, just schizo-tier posting.
There used to be people who could do so but no more. If you have a giant mitten for a hand due to labor, they'd probably listen more.
As a former tile guy, I can tell you that you expect too much of'em.
1 they're less educated usually. Unless you can simplify and explain you have no chance. You can't just tell them to read something.
2 some feel good positions are not well received. There were people in welfare when I worked who despised welfare because they worked. Doesn't matter its cognitive dissonance.
It's fascinating that you think that this is what "fascism is eternal" looks like as a presumably positive thing. Are you meaning to say that you're dark skinned, seeking to establish Black Fascism?
If that's the course that things take, it's unfortunate, but I already have seen that there are enough other tool-using species on the planet that communism will still almost assuredly be developed.
I hope it's birds. It would be fascinating to have the descendants of the dinosaurs to be the ones to take the stars.
I have already won, fascist.
If we’re going to outcompete you than you mutants were obviously inferior anyway, now fuck off you dumb fash
We’re in the business of shooting fashies, not cuddling with them
Aren't most fascists middle class? Why all the hate for the lower class?
But almost everyone in India and other shitholes associate themselves with middle class even if they poor as shit.
Bro, I warned you about electoralism. I told you, dog.
Because online debate is a spectator sport.
I'm not talking to boonposter, I'm talking to others who might be quietly interested.
tbh India’s fptp system makes it very difficult for communists to win. They were second largest party by popular vote in 2009, now they’re nearly diminished
I don't know about that. Just look at Brazil. The wealthiest regions voted for Bolsonaro while the poorest voted for the other guy.
lol, he's not facist he's a neocuckservative
Most Fascists are working class matey
You're confusing fascists with boomer faggots who care about nigger taxes or some gay shit
Proofs? Hitler's and Franco's main support came from the petite-bourgeoise.
I cant say for the rest of the fascists since I never bothered looking into them.
So a fascist that's too much of a coward to admit he's a fascist.
Fascism is economically centrist
Conservatism is economically capitalist
You cunts lumping degenerate capitalists is just like the boomer retards who say Stalin was a fascist
Fascist is not just a fucking byword for authoritarianism, and in fact there are variants of fascism that are socially centrist like mine
we must have very different meanings of centrist and fascism then matey
Wtf is the center between workers controlling the MoP and State and Capitalists doing so? And how is fascism in between that when capitalists own the MoP and the state under fascism?
No, what is the center between "develop your productive forces" and "don't develop productive forces"?
Ownership of MoP is superstructure mate.
Yep, we have different definitions of fascism
I'm an Anarcho-Fascist.
lol
based
sounds like typical radlib shit
of course they vote reactionary parties, this is nothing new, this was happening even in the past
we should educate them, help them understand what's happening
we don't hate them
kys champagne socialist retard
That's not reason to hate proletariat.
It's not we against the reactionary parts of proletariat, it's we against the burgeoisie and if you don't understand this, then you are liberal retard
The only way to truly fix all this shit is by either
1) explaining what leftism actually is
2) run for office so that it forces people to pay attention to your message
3) organize with others
based
based * 2
The elections are all rigged. Socialism isn't losing, it would never win in electoralism. What matters is that leftists are organizing more and more.
That happen when you don't fight for workers, and instead you fight for trannies and bourgois womens… If the left doesn't left that stupid ideas SJWs, the fascism shall winning in all the world.
Lmao, no it fuckin isn’t mate, who owns the means of production is what determines what mode you’re in, you don’t need magic technology to have socialism, wtf lmao
Ah yes, that’s certainly the fight in *reads notes* India
Wrong country mate, try again
India isn't a vaccum
Fuck off anglo, destroying reactionary proles secures my existence the same way destroying bourgeois is. But let’s see how your logic works when some poor fuck from the factory that’s now in the SS bears down on your ass and you tell him you should kill your boss together.
Fuck reactionaries, they get the wall
India also doesn’t have the same political discourse as America, so leftists in India aren’t focusing on trans rights or gay rights or whatever else you were trying to pin it on
Read what I actually wrote.
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Let me pretend it is 1917 Russia
Yup, Socialism will magically be achievable once every human is dead and the seas are sterile acid
So you fundamentally disagree with the idea that the forces of production are what drive the development of society?
I hope you don't consider yourself a materialist.
I fundamentally disagree with the idea that just because the forces of production are there to allow socialism means society will transition to socialism. What magical technology are we missing to enable socialism? Most labor is heavily automated, we have overabundant food, we have advanced computers for planned economies, what the fuck else are we waiting for?
Socialism is possible today, your issue isn’t that you adhere to determinism to the extent that you believe socialism will magically happen once it’s feasible, which does not fit reality. You think capitalists will take the transition happily? You think they’d just let it happen? You think socialism is inevitable?
We have to CREATE socialism, and the time to create it isn’t now, you’re delusional if you believe capitalists won’t stem the tied forever, more so if you don’t realize human extinction is another possibility instead of socialism.
Not sure what you're disagreeing with me then. Do you think that the reason we're seeing massive social upheaval today has nothing to do with the presence of the mass automation, advanced computers, and overabundance of food?
Hellworld 20xx incoming bois. Gonna be a thrill.
Like he said read a book; try Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson or The Invention of the White Race by Theodore Allen
Fascists have it backwards. It isn't "X race makes X system better/worse", its that socialism objectively makes each "race" better then it ever was before.
Fascism is theoretically corporatist; which is to say the state was meant to take up an umpire position between labour and capital to ameliorate class conflict. In practice fascists "solved" the labour question by destroying all independent working class political organizations (unions, political parties, cooperatives etc.) and enabling their bourgeois cronies to exploit the working class in an unprecedented manner.
Fascism is capitalism in decay and a bourgeois political project. Stop taking fash "theory" at face value and recognize how fascist regimes operated in practice.
I'd reccomend this video: m.youtube.com
Yup, always a mistake to see Fascism as anything but the bourgeois dispensing with the pap and pageantry of bourgeois democracy
I fail to see how that is bad.
Is that real? Looks fake because that star of david.
The reason why, is because the gang running the show have figured out how to use fear as a means of controlling people, and so now they push that 24/7.
As for India and Modhi, the Indians starting sucking American dick several years ago, now. I don't know what has caused it, but the Indian population now seem to be greater cowards than they were under the British East India Company. They tried to resist the British, whereas with the Americans, they seem to compete with each other to see which of them can throw away their heritage the fastest, or subjugate themselves the most completely.
It's getting worse by every metric you can think of
This is the first time I've seen someone who has identified as a Communist, write or say anything which actually makes coherent, verifiable sense.
I am duly impressed.
Nope, the former warsaw pact proletariat including the Russians were still thoroughly reactionary even after decades of soviet rule.
youtube.com
According to this, black Africans have had bloomery furnaces and been producing tools from at least wrought iron (if not actual steel) since around 200 BC.
Granted, but I will point out that:
The soviets still retained a significant capitalist character (state capitalist, to drag out a tired overused phrase in a different way). This is a good thing, it helped industrialize and develop through a necessary period of material development far more efficiently, humanely, and appropriately than individual capitalist. That they were still proletariat is a rather telling sign.
The superstructure elements are far less rigid than the base material element. They will invariably reply and follow along with the base in the same way that capitalism must build towards crisis, but you are not going to be able to tell exactly when in many cases. The class relationship to the base is itself the rooting of the superstructure and through the usual analysis this is how the base transforms the superstructure. The USSR was only around for some 70-odd years, that's long enough for people to have been born before it and died after it. Sentiment withers slowly. I mean there's people who still want a monarchy centuries after the age of feudalism died out.
Ideas and sentiments form in part from the buildup of other ideas and sentiments, as well as experiences that are incorporated into them as a literal cost to produce, along with all sorts of other material costs of development. Considering how piecemeal this process is, it's not surprising at all that it doesn't happen all at once.
I ain't gonna say material history doesn't stagger like a drunk, just that it moves and is directed.
The proletariat has to be organized as a class before it can abolish itself, shit-for-brains.
Why? Social democrats have been a major political force in the west for like half a century, usually getting 50% of the vote in most western countries.
Funnily enough embracing identity politics is working out great for "leftwing" oriented parties in Europe. Kind of wondering how some of the centrist parties constantly manage re-election there. Their policies are almost always universally unpopular (favoring corporations, increasing taxes etc) and they manage to sell out more to internationalization which displaces local workers. I guess people just watch the television to tell them they're good guys so they vote for them lol.
welcome to leftypol, the only stronghold