De Leonism, what is it, what are your thoughts on it?
Why doesn't anybody talk about it and what books should I read to learn about it (note I haven't read any books on Socialist theory and ideology yet)
What deleonist youtubers are there to watch?
De Leonism
Ryder King
Other urls found in this thread:
iww.org
iww.org
twitter.com
Benjamin Torres
Basically an American Communist was so egotistical to make himself relevant he created "De Leonism" which is supposed to be Leninism + Unions(as if Leninism excludes unions or something)
Its just Leninism written by an American nothing new
Sebastian Bennett
read the sticky and start there
Xavier Sullivan
Is it really that shit?
It was beginning to sound, pretty good to me. What don't you like about it? like actual criticism
Brayden Long
Syndicalism is undialectical, and I actually mean that
Jack Brooks
Nah, DeLeon split from the IWW because of "bummery" in the unions (kind of invalidates the idea of a union for every worker).
The IWW itself is an org that believes in a "get along shirt" for communists and anarchists, while many head leaders preached that Anarchism just ends up being edgy Leninism (i.e Anarchist labor camps in Catalonia).
iww.org
iww.org
Elijah Bell
Its not that there is anything bad. De Leon did not create his own tendency or anything really. Unless you're going to say that incorporating unions into government is enough to be its own ideology.
But even then how much that matters is minimal when you have the already established soviet system, especially at the time when Leninism was at its height.
De Leonism is either redundant or irrelevant in the light of Leninism
Liam Howard
what? none of that has anything to do with what I said
Jason Flores
Lenin actually praised De Leon.
Dylan James
I actually tried to find a source on that, and it seems that it was just something that people mentioned Lenin saying on an anniversary of the revolution.
Bentley Flores
Acording to Lenin, Leninism is just Deleonism written by a Russian.
Jonathan Bennett
It's related to you not knowing about DeLeon being a wobbly champagne socialist, while also thinking the IWW is different from Leninism in such a way that he needed to create this.
Proofs?
Lincoln Gray
I didn't say this
Anthony Butler
what?
Nicholas Green
Learn English
Jeremiah Perez
you're typing a lot without actually saying anything relevant
Alexander Diaz
I've seen this quote a few times so I decided to look it up. It seems to originate in George Seldes' book on the life and interviews of Oscar Cesare who interviewed Lenin in 1922. Being thirdhand information (told to Seldes by Cesare without any proper transcript of the interview) it's somewhat suspect, but it is known that Lenin had interest in the SLP and DeLeonism in 1915. Regardless, I don't think the role of unions in the Soviet Union could be described as compatible with industrial unionism.
Zachary Johnson
Ah yes, very different.
I'm a humanities major, it's what I do.
Nathaniel Nguyen
More like:
I think those are fairly distinct. It is not hard to imagine why this is so. Leninism was aimed at establishing communist rule with the support of a minority of the population in an underdeveloped state whose peasantry found anything left of the SRs unacceptable. DeLeonism (perhaps more in line with the hopes of Marx regarding universal suffrage) was oriented towards creating a movement capable of achieving an electoral and industrial socialist majority in a developed capitalist democracy.
My main point, however, was that the Leninist approach towards unions, best exemplified by the trade union debate in the 20s, was incompatible with Industrial Unionism as imagined by DeLeon. While Lenin rejected the labor discipline view of Trotsky and made some overtures towards a union role in the economy, he also rejected the substantive demands of the Workers' Opposition for worker participation in economic management. Throughout the history of the Soviet Union the role of trade unions was thereafter to act as educational institutions and a bridge between workers and the CPSU, not as active participants in the state-directed plans or as a serious political force in Soviet society. Exemplifying this is the fact that trade unions almost never had serious representation in the highest organs of Soviet power.
Industrial Unionism, on the other hand, dictated a process by which unions would democratically elect representatives to a Congress of Trade Unions which would organize society. Note that there is no provision here for the Leninist maxim of democratic centralism which ultimately lead to the political exclusion of trade unions and the death of intra-party democracy in the USSR. Furthermore, there is a great deal in DeLeonist thought that suggests a greater predilection towards worker self-management and union participation in economic planning (something very much in line with the ideals of the Workers’ Opposition and Workers’ Truth factions which were explicitly rejected by Lenin).
David Davis
Lenin was like 10 years old when De Leon was writing.
James Campbell
He was writing about socialism in general prior to Lenin nothing specific on DeLeonism
Alexander Hughes
You must be retarded. They are the same interpretation of Marx, but De Leon's came first.
Even Lenin said this:
What we have done in Russia is accept the De Leon interpretation of Marxism, that is what the Bolsheviki adopted in 1917.
Andrew Thompson
#1 it was before Lenin
#2 he died right before WWI completely changed world politics so the relevancy of his policies is debatable
#3 he had a reputation for being an elitist and a massive asshole
Jonathan Wood
No Lenin came first De Leon is just older