The "right" socialist


Im an American (sorry) and am disappointed in the moral character and economic understanding of progressive political figures. Right-wingers always point to disasters like Venezuela, Mao, USSR, etc. and claim the same thing will happen here. They're clearly overstating the problem (social democracy =/= hardline communism, even if SD occasionally leads to communism), but there is definitely an issue with American leftism.

Bernie Sanders:

Don't get me wrong, Bernie is easily one of the most trustworthy democrat politicians to be in the limelight in my lifetime. But he also basically has never held a job down that didn't involve promising/promoting equality, which is honestly pretty easy and not a good measure of competence.

AOC - need i even document her total fiscal illiteracy? She also has a clear totalitarian streak.

I guess im asking 2 things: 1) am i engaging in selection bias? Are the best socialists kept out of the media? 2) How do we implement socialism without having to trust a small group of people to run a 300million person without being corrupt or stupid?

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This post stinks of noob lefty. Honestly bro, just read about types of anarchy if you don't trust forms of large hierarchy, and lurk more because you sound like a Succ Dem. When it comes to people you should back your first problem is that you live in the worst country in the world when it comes to it. You just have to be happy with what you get or hate them all when it comes to politicans.

Can you tell me why you find AOC bad? You don't want full communism so she sounds like someone down your alley. Unless it is just green new deal issues than I heard it all before.

They're misunderstanding the problem in its entirety. The USSR and Maoist China were feudal shitholes that had to undergo industrialisation at an unprecedented rate. Venezuela is undergoing an oil crisis along with massive economic sabotage both internally and externally.
Where has this happened? Would be brilliant if it were true but it sadly isn't.

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Venezuela bro. I am focused on empiricism to reach our goals and for that reason i am not a communist as the word is uderstood by normies. Chavez came to power via democratic elections, rewrote the constitution, nationalized major industries, etc etc. And it wasn't like Chavez did all this out of nowhere, it was a gradual process. What used to be the 4th richest country in the world per capita is now filled with starving people. From an equity standpoint, a country with 20% of people under the poverty line now has 80% under.

My point isn't to haggle over whether or not this qualifies as "real communism" but like, how do we avoid fucking this up and make it work? It's a serious question unless you're literally just here to mindleslly rage against the machine

She will never step on you, Ben, come to terms already.

Everyone is so focused on winning and nobody is focused on not accidentally ending up in a mass starvation/murder/genocide scenario, when *it's inevitable that we'll win*. Inequality is increasing, automation will increase it more, eventually the masses will take back a share of the national income. There will be nobody protecting capital if the middle class shrinks away. Also demographics.

History is littered with massive fuckups, and living through one sounds extremely shitty. How do we best do this?

what are you even yammering on about dude? AOC isnt fiscally illiterate, the canon of western liberal economics is a religion and economists and financial "experts" are the keepers of the temple of capital
she could literally say anything stupid and itd be no more or less valid than any economists because it is pure ideology. you can see that in the treatment of well known neomarxist tenured professors. they get ignored and downplayed just because economists generally believe innately in capitalism and that marxists are plainly wrong. it isnt science
what socialists? far as i know no one goes out of their way to curtail zizek and chomsky is buddy buddy with state intelligence people. the lack of public socialists is because they scared americans out of wrongthink like a piss pot totalitarian stereotype and made them believe it was of their own free will. people choose succdems because they cant handle that deep down they have always been hardcore populist socialists
how do you trust the existing system? its like you forget you live in a society structured the exact same way right now

okay kermit but consider that id rather be red and dead than overly enamored with my own farts and the ripe texture of their smells. before you get to dealing with how you run things you have to win. life finds a way and moaning about what ifs isnt gonna do a damn thing. diamat has always been about creativity and improvisation for the purpose of the moment, not purely about action for actions sake nor theory for theory's sake. its the two joined together that works; so how the fuck are you going to reply to the vast imaginary possibilities that will arise if we win? endless theory is how, and thats not effective.

You have no idea where you are right now do you?

Venezuela was never wealthy.

butthurt venezuelan detected

This. Elect a bartender/bus driver to run the economy and fuck it, whatever happens happens. Who cares if 50 mil people die or 90% of the country has to live in poverty? I'm already poor and seeing bourgeois idiots wearing expensive headphones and sneakers makes me want to die

what the fuck are you talking about

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They were loosing money on oil long before the drop in oil prices. They were loosing money at height of the oil prices in the years before Trump. It was so weird to talk to leftists about this, none of them knew and it had no impact what so ever on their world view in any way. Not even in simply assessing the Maduro regime

lol imagine saying this and actually thinking you're a leftist

shes a liberal not a leftist

Why are you bringing up liberals in a leftist political board? maybe you're looking for >>>/liberalpol/

Any threat to a capitalist social order is kept out of the media.

A popular revolution of the working class spear heading by the communist party, like all other successful implementations of socialism

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Are you legitimately retarded dude?

being the 4th richest country in the postwar era is kind of a joke tho, especially if you consider Venezuela wasn't involved in the war in any significant way, and if you look at the history you'll find that Venezuela's moments of prosperity happen to coincide with wars in other oil-rich countries, hmmm, i wonder why.

so? money isn't real. value comes from labor and property, they still have their labor and refineries. More people are healthier, and more educated than ever before. Are you actually crying about oligarchs having their wealth redistributed? Do you think something tangible of value actually leaves when gusanos finally fuck off and that this somehow hurts the millions of people engaged in class warfare against them?

The way you're addressing us makes me think that you imagine this being a progressive/liberal board, which we ain't. Your post just reeks of Zig Forumsack that hasn't even bothered to lurk or at the very least read up on some basic socialist takes, since you seem to give credibility to people that say that Venezuela is "socialist" disaster

[citation needed]

Kinda like obungo and his reign of islamig gommunism right?

underrated post