If we could compile a form of Islamic Communism that takes principles from both Prophet Muhammad's teachings/laws in conjunction with certain Communist ones such as Marxism-Leninism or Maoism?
Muhammad himself was very much a revolutionary who fought for the oppressed and poor. Oppression and exploitation as in the manner of Primitive Accumulation is also considered non-halal and strictly forbidden in an Islamic state. Combine this with the political or economic teachings of Communism and you could have the greatest ideology. Even the Soviet Union's collapse would not have happened if it was Islamic.
Take a look at the Islamic Golden Age, greatness achieved with halal methods where exploitation and forced participation was not allowed.
Praise be to Allah and his Prophet Muhammad. Peace be upon you Communist friends, I hope you hear his message and that some of you may consider including some of their teachings in your movement. It is bound to help you succeed greatly in crushing this immoral as well as exploitative system.
There is no god but Allah with his messenger Muhammad. Capitalism is the system of the Dajjal and the Jew that forces people to worship the non-existent false god of materialism or money and capital.
Marxism is a science. Islam is a reactionary religion. They are literally polar opposites
You will not find any success here because much of this site is full of islamophobic whitoids/mutts.
That being said, Islam and capitalism cannot co-exist. Capitalism features usury, greed and exploitation. Any truly Islamic economy would have to be based on socialism.
You do know that one of the golden ages of science was heavily linked to and influenced by Islam? Religions and science can co-exist. The metaphysical cannot adequately be explained by science, everything else can. Islamic scholars recognized this and pioneered the fields of mathematics, medicine, chemistry and astronomy. Socialism would allow Islamic people - just like any other people really - to enter a new golden age, based on scientific advancement, progress in society and the promotion of arts and culture.
I think the Soviet Union would have vastly benefited if it had allowed more freedom of religion. I recognize that the churches of old were tied to Czarist oppression, but after a few decades they could have eased it a bit. Strong repressions only cause strong counter-reactions: See how cucked the Falun Dafa have become, allowing themselves to be tools of the US empire. This wouldn't have happened had the Chinese state not cracked down so severly on them.
A too strong break from the past and tradition causes counter-reaction. What is left of Mao's cultural revolution? Not much. What is left of Soviet antitheism? Not much. They would have benefitted from promoting religious tendencies that are aligned with socialism, or mixing these thoughts. Liberation theology, protestant socialism, Islamic socialism and so on.
All religions should be strictly banned in a communist society, that isn't a question. And of course the destruction of every cathedral and Mecca and all the other shit too is a necessity, fucking bourgies burned churches in Belgium and France, anarchists burned churches, Stalin wanted to build that palace, burning down churches is one of the few activities free from sectarianism. I was disgusted at the fact that people were crying over poor Notre Dame, Hugo was just a male hysteric you know. 1793 is his best book btw
The golden age of Islam was due to them taking over what was then the handicraft/preindustrial economic core of the Christian world at the time, the breadbasket of the Mediterranean too, and also getting the Persians and Jews to translate a couple of metaphysix for them, so they could pacify and order their slave society after Poitiers and the failed sieges of Constantinople put an end to the primordial ordering of Islamic society under the purest of teachings, which was just rushing the weird crazy kaffirs who built those strange society things and taking all their shit
People underestimate the material basis and the importance of the roles the economy and technology played in those parts of the world even back then because they fell for the Dark Ages meme back in highschool. Even while Europe was deterritorialized and in a stagnation/ flux, China and Byzantium had actual governments with paper money and transcontinental trade, they also did industrial espionage on the chinks, and the relative stagnation of the West was due to collapsing structures which could only half keep the infrastructure maintained, it's not as if people magically forgot all the math shit and started praying to Jeebus.
People should really start reading the postclassical era materially.
A good point, the bourgeoisie revolutions allowed a variety of religions to exist themselves despite being against the Feudal religious institutions.
I would say about religion in accordance to the O.P that it seems Zoroastrianism is most compatible with Socialism. As it espouses 'good thoughts, actions and words' as first in comparison to 'faith' which plays a secondary role even.
This is in stark contrast to religious right pro-capitalist protestants that say 'only faith matters, work for the capitalist system and its all good'
Not necessarily true. The only thing that Mohammad truly fought for was liberation from idolatry, and monotheism. The philosophy behind that is that allowing idolatry means that man can rule over other men and thus they become his slaves, while under monotheism we are all slaves to Allah (God) - who is infinitely more powerful, wise and merciful than any other being in existence since he created them - and thus under his direct rule. And while that did include some liberation of the poor and oppressed, it was not the central message of Islam.
You could theoretically make the case for that if you consider wage labour as a form of usury since it is inherently exploitative, but not many (probably not even any) scholars agree on that.
Except slavery was alive and well under "da izlamig golden egg :DDD" and whatever great scientific achievements under it happened as a result of the rapid expansion of Islamic territory in that age and the contact that happened between the Islamic civilization and other neighboring civilizations. The reason that Islamic society was much more scientifically advanced compared to Christian Europe was probably because it wasn't nearly as xenophobic and divided by sectarianism as its Christian counterpart.
I personally believe that the best socialist society is completely secular without unnatural adherence to one religion or the other. If society's values did happen to align well with one particular belief then fine, but if not then religion should not directly dictate the people's values.
Islam is an unreformable cancer Do you really want to idealise an 8th century warlord?
have you tried look into the foundations of the old indo european religions ? Much more spiritual than religious.
Islam didn't "cause" it retard. If you were an actual marxist you'd know religion is hardly a legitimate historical force in itself they were using and innovating on greek and roman traditions they didn't give a unique "islamic" spin to anything
Why not focus one some of the indo-european religions instead of an abrahamic "SLAVE FOR YOUR GOD" one? Like, for example, Buddhism that teaches us to build ourselves better minds, better bodies, better communities, to seek to end suffering on this planet, and to stand up to shelter the helpless and resist their oppressors (nonviolently, but still)
once upon a time Afghanistan was Buddhist…
What the world would probably look like if the Abbasid Caliphate was never destroyed by the Mongols and Islam was able to bring its golden age/advancements to Europe. We would be far more advanced if Islam had or did take over, women and LGBTI would have equal right even, Muslim myself here: youtube.com/watch?v=tx6R3YgmK0s
Or meant to say atleast in a nutshell*
Show me the islamic agricultural revolution. show me the islamic scientific renaisance show me the islamic abolition of slavery Islam destroyed its own "golden age"
Nah totally had nothing to do with the mongols destroying its central seat of power and centre of knowledge or anything.
So you're a racist who says it didn't?
What about the Abbasid Caliphate and the things it achieved or got before Hulagu rendered Baghdad uninhabitable for more than 200 years, and killed atleast 15 - 18 million Muslim sin the Middle East altogether?
Muslims in the*
The concept for the Arabian Nights trope itself from stuff like the link somebody showed above your comment came from the existence of the Abbasid Caliphate or Islamic Golden Age
any islamic society will always be dragged back to following the lifestyle of an 8th century warlord Development happens in spite of islam. During expansionary phases it might ingest and distribute collected knowledge but fails to apply logic and develop ideas
If you want to provide evidence to the contrary I'm all ears
Islam is a religiopolitical ideology not a race
The entire mughal fucking empire for starters?
Offshoot gunpowder empire, all their architecture was Persianate with an Indian underclass to maintain that shit, also they were so horrible occupiers that an entire religion was spread out based on not taking their shit anymore.
You could have tried the Safavids maybe, but again, there was a national aspect to the culture and an intense, deep opposition to what they perceived as the Arab domination of Sunni Islam.
So no, Sunni is an absolute shit, Shi'a could acquire emancipatory aspects due to historical occurences, but always materially based (e.g. Druzes and Hezbollah in Lebanon).
But really all religions deserve the torch.
Not all, just remove the desert cults.
Nah Buddhism needs a good cleanup too, at the very least. Also I don't know what you would name Hinduism (steppe cult??), but if you read the Bhagavad Gita you see why the fascists loved the Hindoos so much. And only the existence of the caste system is inexcusable, even if you leave out that transcendentalist yaoi eternal fascism anime shit Arjuna gets into. Also most animisms don't count as religion in the historical sense, so yeah of course if people in Africa want to bring a witch doctor in to bless a new factory or smth, fair enough, they'll get bored of it soon. But if they start defending private property or those other spooks of course even the shamans should be hunted down by helicopters.
Funny that all the gunpower empires were muslim innit, almost like they were a part of say, the Islamic Silver age. Lamo like Persian culture wasn't heavily islamicised by the 1600s Not really, the whole thing about the Mughals is that they brought an administration with them that displaced the Indian rajas. 1) shit tier understanding of Sikhism 2) the Mughals were one of the most important dynastic rulers in history Nice goalpost moving. The Druze aren't even shi'ia you daft shit. ALso "Muh x religion is good but y is bad because feels" is anti-materialism.
Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī says that muhammad (pbuh) porked aisha when she was nine
which was the mughal emperor that saw the flaws in islam and the other religions and tried to pull together the best elements of each of them to create a better future by creating his own religion?
If you are talking about the inter-religious dialogue of the mughals, that is nothing close to what you are describing.
No they weren't, they were named 'gundpowder empires' by British historians as a consolation prize for at least managing to build a couple cannons before getting swatted away like flies, if you want real gunpowder empires at the same age try France. So it's really the silver medal of at least not being fucking natives, and the copper medal is being hill peoples so maybe we could make them a revolutionary subject too. And the Brits bought it out on the cheap, super administration But did they poo in the loo?
Also I know Druzes aren't Shia, that's why I mentioned them next to the Hezbollah. The only material occurences that made this Hezbollah worth supporting was ONLY because the Maronite landowners and the Falange brought Israel in and they were emptying neighborhoods with machine guns, of course all religions are bullshit in their content and ideology and so on, just that at that moment in time, it was the Islamic Revolution which saved Lebanon from getting annexed into Israel. And yes maybe Beschir Gemayel was the good guy after all because at least the Maronite and Copt refugees I've talked with aren't so fucking spooked as the muzzies. (also french accent can be cute)
Islam has no place in modern science. It makes concrete falsifiable scientific claims in a book that is supposed to be the unalterable word of god. Numerous of these claims are outright fucking false, but to say so would be heresy to a Muslim. As a result, Islamic scholarship is full of retrofitting scientific information to support the claims made in the Quran.
There are similar problems with the humanities, particularly history, where anything older than Islam dates the world gets dated incorrectly, and there are rampant hotep-tier claims that millennia-old cultures were Islamic.
actual muslim here. islam for the most part is not class conscious because it originated from a fucking tribal desert society but it still says some stuff like most of the rich don't go to heaven, give money to the poor, greed is bad, love each other, etc which is a big achievement for a 900A.D feudal society islam says nothing about authoritarian or libertarian or leftist or rightist. imo the biggest problem in Islam is the teachings that were created by the caliphates and empires that still exist today disguised as Islam and sharia (you know the decapitation, feudalism, racial-religion mentality, spreading control, conquer the world mentality, reactionary anti science, minority suppression, arabazation, authoritarianism, etc). Islam wasn't meant to be political and shouldn't be political it's just a set of rules for personal lifetsyle. most muslims are allergic to communism and socialism because they think communist theory is just "religion is bad". that's why they choose shitty right wing leaders then cry about them becoming US puppets or local businesses dying or working 12 hours to afford only bread. the solution to this problem is probably islamic socialism
Interesting, thanks. What are your takes on Nasser and pan-Arabism? Also is even lip service at Palestinian solidarity completely dead or is it just the governments?
So does Christianity. This doesn’t make Christianity good.
religion is an ideology. It is inherently ideological. Everything is. And the ideology of religion is that of reaction and anti-communism. Backwards ideas are incompatible with proletarian science. They will be washed away in the global cultural revolution.
I can't say I'm overly versed in islam but I understand the Medina passages are where the brutalist insanity takes off?
Anyone who believes marxism will render religion obsolete is absolutely insane - it's not going to happen. Any socialist movement in the 21st century will have to recognize that socialism and religion can co-exist, just like science and religion can co-exist. Edgy /r/atheism posturing isn't gonna do wonders in the 3rd world, where the actual revolutionary potential lies. But I wouldn't expect the "lefty"/polacks/ to understand this. Instead it's shit like "Islam Bad Anime Waifu Good" lmaoooo
Delusional. People have been spiritual forever, you think a "cultural revolution" will change this fact - even when it couldn't in China? People were spiritual before capitalism and will be spiritual after capitalism. Repressing the spiritual tendencies of a significant part of humanity will only lead to needless opposition. Think strategically you dumb ass Trot.
Lenin was a moralist boyar who liked bikes, go to St.Denis and the only spirituals are the reactionaries.
When state atheism was official policy of the USSR and China religious faggots were 20% of the population. When these policies stopped and the CIA funded churches religion increased. Religion is a reactionary ideology that is incompatible with scientific marxism.
We should learn from this fact.
There is a difference between choosing to die on the hill of state-imposed atheism and systematically promoting a science-based worldview over a religion-based one. Religion should be tolerated for stability's sake, but mercilessly criticized and undermined through education and dialogue. Whenever a religious movement builds popular support based on legitimate non-religious grievances (like the Muslim Brotherhood's philantropic work in poor areas in Egypt), the state should address these grievances and thus co-opt its popularity instead of repressing the movement outright, which is liable to backfire. Anti-religious policy can be done right, IMO.
When Islam was in its 'golden age' they did not have a bunch of screaming fanatics and homicidal jihadis in charge of the religion, the leaders were rational first and religious second, now the opposite is true, and Islam is in the middle of what could accurately be described as a dark age,
I guess what you could say now is that we need islamic gommunism?
Honestly, as a Muslim I feel like we need a form of Islamic communism. The wahhabist influence on modern islam is really strong and there is a push to radicalize alienated Muslim men in the west. There are some mosques in the west that have sheiks affiliated with known terrorist groups bankrolled by the Saudis. We need an adequate response to this bullshit or else a lot of Muslim niggas are gonna take the reactionary route. Whether you believe Islam is compatible with socialism is irrelevant. It's a religion just cherry pick the parts that fit your narrative just like what right wing Muslims do. We should organize withing our community and fight the right wing wahhabist tendancy among islam
That doesn't help user. Most Muslims I've met were socdem. Religion isn't that important in our modern lives, mostly just a back thought. Islam itself maybe unreformable but Muslims can be turned
Proving op's point faggot. You're understanding of Buddhism is influenced by Zig Forums
This. Religion is inherently reactionary and if not outright persecuted should be systematically starved by ruling communists.
Only Islam isn't, but I saw that communists want to help the Muslims take over western countries and help bring our religion and Islamic law?
And don't the communists also want more black people or Muslim refugees to come in make more people than the non-Muslims?
Somebody also said that communists have some Jewish people that like the Muslims as well and want more Muslims or more people to become Muslim?
All of this is of course true, we have all been trained by pic related himself to subvert Europe in the name of our Afro-Islamic Israeli overlords. Just yesterday (after getting my sorosbucks) have I led 20 young white women to a refugee camp so they could get impregnated and carved the star of david around their belly buttons.
You are like a child. I have personally plowed 66 000 white virgins, inseminating them with my judeo-cultural islamo-communism in the name of Giorgios Shorosh and Karlus al-Marximus. I was only nearly foiled once by a particularly redpilled "National Soycialist", but no homosexual can defeat me in single combat.
I thought the whole point of much of what the right wing muslims were doing is that they are trying to avoid this. I certainly saw people claiming that Da'esh were attempting recreate their vision of a 7th century theocratic state.
I can certainly see how you could use the five pillars and the Qu'ran to get to social democracy, but pushing as far as communism seems tenuous. Muhammad was clear that all members of the Ummah should contribute to it's maintenance and the well being of those whom were less fortunate. Muhammad did not prohibit the acquisition of personal wealth and was himself a talented merchant.
Yeah, but a social security system isn't communism m8.
Sorry buddy, that’s just a bunch of Zig Forums horseshit. The only terrorists active today are the Far Right
Not at all. The right cherry picks passages all the time considering that in the Quran there exists verses that directly contradict each other all the time. Muhammeds position wasn't clear on a lot of things so they just choose the surat that seem most appropriate to their cause. Remember religion itself isn't a major political force in itself. Just a way to recruit unintelligent foot soldiers