Introspection: Why didn't we become rightists?

I *did* end up on Zig Forums though. I still browse both this board and 4/pol/. Zig Forums by and large makes TERRIBLE arguments if you sit down and actually take time to examine each claim they throw at you instead of letting them overwhelm you with the sheer amount of garbage they fling at you at once.
On a rare occasion they do make an argument that makes me reconsider something, but it's never been enough to bring my beliefs in conflict with some form or another of leftism.

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A lot of us were ex-rightists. I went through an unironic phase of fascism, nazi apologism, and monarchism.

horseshoe theory confirmed?

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Two things
1. My ethnicity and my country (third world latinamerican country)
2. My social class (Middle proletarian class)

I can see the damage capitalism has gave to my country and it's population

Rubberband Theory, I went so far to the right that I went the other direction

its population (let's not get grammar nazis or any nazi involve)

I had to rationalize a broken home.

I still veer between empty self-promises to join a far-right organization out of spite, and reconciling my actual beliefs and feelings.

Well, I guess it's like "what does a fish think about water?" It'd probably be really surreal and freaky for someone who was never in that environment. But it was pretty "orderly" I suppose. It's like being in a Creed music video all the time or something; just kind of ludicrous and funny to me more than anything thinking back. Actually, King of the Hill is really accurate, and there are tons of inside jokes about exurban white-people Texas in the 1990s on that show that you won't get if you didn't grow up here. Like that was my environment: really conservative exurb (my county was one of the most pro-Bush in the elections of any in the state) that was starting this transition into a proper suburb with a more diverse population. My hometown has changed considerably since then.

My dad grew up in rural cowpoke Texas though back in the day and he has horror stories about it – suffice to say the environment was pretty physical, and there explosive racial conflicts between whites and blacks. But there wasn't much bullying where I grew up and I didn't have any problems with that.
Bingo. Yeah. Like for me, there wasn't a moment when it was like "ah-ha!" And there still hasn't been that moment – I don't think that's how thinking about things should really work, anyways. But the liberals really don't make a lick of sense when talking about the economy, they just sound like witch doctors or something. I really like this Marxist economist Michael Roberts who does a lot of writing on what's going on, and how capitalism is really just functioning as "normal" capitalism is intended and as laid out by Marx:
thenextrecession.wordpress.com

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I remember 4/r9k/ was the first place I encountered the word wage slave and when I heard that phrase I started to realize that capitlism isnt just people doing things voluntarily, right afterwards Bernie Sanders was doing his whole thing so I became a socdem because I thought he could fix the problems of wage slavery, when he lost and it came out he was cheated is when I realized that American democracy was BS but was still opposed to violence so I just became nihilistic and stopped caring about politics. During this time I became a bit socially conservative still supported gay rights but thought they should keep it private and thought promiscuity should be discouraged, never feel for the race and Autism Level shit though beyond that I didnt have a strong stance on anything political and kinda just accepted markets were the best way to do things without really thinking if that was true. Eventually I discovered Zig Forums and saw Zig Forums was a bit curious cause I thought leftism was being a socdem, when I found out you were anti idpol I was happy cause I thought sjws were dumb but was turned of by communism so I didn't stick around for long. Eventually I found batkos response video to PragueU on facism thought a leftist peppy was instresting and I watched some more leftist youtubers. I became an Anarchist for like a month but when I realized the USSR wasn't as bad as the propaganda said it was I became an ML.

I think my time as a socdem exposed me to enough anti racist shit that I would never go full Zig Forums even as my world view became increasingly nihilistic, it also introduced me to ideas of class struggle and made me confront the problems with capitlism, I just had to find the real answers myself. It probably helps that I always had a few good friends around (some of which were minorities) so even if I became depressed I wasn't just browsing 4chan for all my social interaction.

based

I used to be a liberal for a while but turned to the right because neoliberalism wasn't substantial enough to provide criticism to the right wing and and isn't really capable of defense either. Like for example some guy would come to me and be like "muh blacks have lower Autism Levels because evolution or something" and I would reply "well that's racist." and have no real substantive response to it. I guess you could say that I had a "moral system" with no real backing because its wrong because its wrong. Then I eventually fell to the right during the whole classical liberal phase (of course) and was studying econ at the time.

After a while, I learned that economic and class differences lead to a multitude of privileges for the richer people (because more capital) and a good chunk of poor people were stuck in poor areas with poor schools and a poor education and it finally dawned on me that everything isn't quite so simple as I had been originally lead to believe.

never heard of him before, might as well do some research on him.

Bourgeois democracy is always going to have a fist on the scale to prevent any kind of meaningful gain for the working class. Also, its a sham. this doesn't mean you shouldn't vote

ik that feel…

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Well yeah, that was the situation for my friend who became a neo-Nazi skinhead. I didn't discover this until later when I looked him up on Facebook, but I mean he beefed up and shaved his head and got swazi tats and a Thor's hammer on his fucking fist. Scary shit. He was always nice to me though, and could be really funny.

I only looked him up because he was that friend who I thought would most likely wind up dead or in prison. That hasn't happened but he has racked up a history of DWIs from what I could tell. What can you do? Dunno really.

But yeah, spite is the right word. He came from a broken home, very troubled, and his impulse became to basically fight the whole of the society around him. I saw this happening when we were friends. Like he'd walk past the girl's bathroom at school drinking a soda and then THROW the soda as hard as he could into the bathroom and keep walking. I kind of gawked and laughed when I saw that, but he had a lot of pent-up rage and anger. And it's not like he couldn't get laid – he lost his virginity at 13, at least that's what he told me. Way too young if you ask me. But he did have a girlfriend.

But I think the fascist mindset emerges from that. If you have seen the movie Taxi Driver, Robert De Niro is driving around at night looking at what he sees as this ocean of depravity walking down the street, and it eventually becomes focused (for him) in this war against pimps, but he first phrases it as: "All the animals come out at night – whores, skunk pussies, buggers, queens, fairies, dopers, junkies, sick, venal. Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets." The fash mindset is like this very narrow, tunnel-vision core of duty and idealism and beyond that is this sea of degeneracy that extends to the horizon and includes basically everything, potentially. Blacks, gays, Muslims, women, children, fun, Jews, modern architecture, popular music… on and on…

I mean, the alienation is happening to everyone, that is the default state of the human subject under capitalism, but fascism provides a kind of (false, in my view) answer to this for people who often come from broken homes or come from bad situations. Fascism gives people a chance to express their alienation, without granting them the right to do; keeping the property relations of capitalism intact. I don't think you're a bad person or whatever for feeling this (that's some liberal, moralizing bullshit) but I wouldn't join one of these groups if I were you, because they will push you into hurting ordinary people and that is not a good thing. Let this post be my love for my fellow worker, helping you heal.

The way I think of bourgeois democracy is that it's basically like a corporation. In theory every shareholder has a vote but a small group of shareholders who are better organized and better funded control the company. It's not that different from a fascist structure, which in a Marxist frame is just capitalism resorting to terror and warfare to save itself when it's in crisis (destruction of surplus capital, allowing investment to resume) – and that seems more or less accurate to me with some qualifications.

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I read the manifesto when I was like 15, I think I saw it in barns and noble and was like oh damn that's edgy ima get it and read it

youtube.com/watch?v=vm8XWRdME9Q

I was a liberal oscillating between Carl Benjamin and Bernie Sanders until I got a job, then I became a commie.

I don't get it. I'm a self employed tradesman and I have total control of the situation in my contracting. I charge some people so much I hope they go away, but sometimes I still get the project so I bite my lip and get the work done and collect that nice check. I work alone and don't need anyone else to help though it would be nice and would improve my quality of life, but the squids out there these days just want to click buttons on their phones. What the fuck do you leftwing assholes bring to society anyway? All you do is whine and try to tear things down

Mother was a Maoist in her youth, and her friends were all possible assortments of very smart and very crazy people, so I grew up in a household with around 4000 books, read Oscar Wilde at 10, and started reading Lenin, Camus, Debord, Bataille and Mayakovsky and Boris Vian and countless other shitbats in middle school parallel to Harry Potter as it came out because of psychological problems so of course I played the nazi to spite those fucking bobos, and I read Kapital and Mein Kampf in the same month at some point, shit was cash, but then lots of shit happened and I even got jobs and it was time to drop the Leopardi act and I still liked reading a lot but fascists don't like reading that much and of course the only purpose of art at the long term is the overcoming of society because that's oppressive too and maybe fascists were right about Entartung and so on but I don't give a shit.
Oh and of course ever voting even for a socdem would make my hand fall off because childrearing matters, I'd stay a Nazi idealist, but still vote gommie all the time and do other stuff too.
And also I stopped because all you autists were meaning it and you were bringing in that vulgar shit around the turn of the decade, really right wing people who haven't read even Chateaubriand ruined the scene for me, and most of them were you guys but it's all right now :3

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what trade?

quintessential rightoid mindset

Left wing ideas make sense. How is this even a topic? You can go read mein kampf or road to serfdom. It's stupid bullshit. If you can't tell the difference you're a shitty lefty and will probably become a liberal before long.

Also I've discussed the meaning of 白猫黒猫 with smart Dengoids and realised that Western halfbrains like China because like the NEP it reifies Americanism in its disguise as Industrial Progress.

Stick to facebook, boomer.

I was raised by a right wing, racist boomer in Texas that was constantly listening to shit like Rush Limbaugh in the car. Listening to that trash as a kid and hearing his daily talking points I would argue against them in my head all the time. Sometime around 2005 I learned what Neoliberalism is from David Harvey and how much better Social Democracy is. After that it was game over and a constant progression leftward from socdem > demsoc > anarchism > ml.

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I was never good with authority as a kid. If no one had a good explanation for why something ought to be the way it is, I wouldn't cooperate. In that way I always had a strong anarchist predisposition. It's no wonder that I ended up being a leftist.

I was originally a 4/pol/tard back in 2016 because of all the edgy memes they made. I was an edgy teenager At that time i would probably be somewhere around a market liberal/ liberal conservative. But 4/pol/'s continuing support for Trump (after he proved he was a retard in his first three months) and the fact they blamed my ethnicity for everything made me leave. I heard of this board while there and I assumed you where liberal sjw types only copying Zig Forums. After that I became like a regular liberal that was mostly indifferent to politics. The I read "Into the Wild" which about a dude who spent 2 years by himself as a hitchhiker and only eating what he could find. This made me an unironic anprim (although I never knew that was an ideology, I just thought it was a new idea). Then I abandoned that because it really is a terrible idea. Since I grew up in a working class home (with a SuccDem supporting family) I always sort of knew that the government was tyranny since it only served the rich and suppresses people's individualism. While researching the late 60s hippie counterculture movement, I stumbled across the word "anarcho-communism". At that time I only knew anarchism as rioters breaking Starbucks windows and Communism as Stalin, Totalitarianism, and 700 billion dead. I started to call myself an Anarchist because I thought it was really edgy, but I developed sympathy towards it and began to research it. After it became clear to me that Anarchism was the answer because it was the ultimate freedom of the individual. I was an Anarchism without Adjectives kind of person at this time. I began to watch YouTube anarchist such as LSR who I find annoying now and BadMouse when he was still one. Then I discovered Bat'ko's channel and watched his Happening Thread videos. That gave me the courage to come here for the first time where I was exposed to Stirner through his memes. After reading the Ego book and being de-spookifed, I became an Egoist Anarchist which I am still one.

democracy in the workplace and a non crumbling economic system :)

Thanks. I get that mindset; it's a seething hatred which isolates you from humanity.

The pain and injustice felt with the sheer intensity can't be characterized as expression; meaningful self-expression is identifying yourself as being part of and yet separate from society. When the process of commodification reduces historically relative modes of existence within a society into a single uniform identity, I wouldn't say Fascism is a chance to express alienation but an expression of alienation. Internalized concepts of guilt, shame, and anger feed into it.

Somewhere I hope deep down that your friend is still that person throwing drinks into bathrooms; however angry he might have been part of him must have known.

Become a Marxist-Leninist-Stirnerist with Chinese characteristics and then we'll talk

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there's a vid of hitler giving a speech with a raging hard on…

based, although it directs alienation in a way that preserves the system that creates it. That's why fascism becomes so common when the economy goes to shit or alienation is amplified

I never could have become a rightist, even as a little kid I felt inherently drawn to leftism.

As a former machinist and current aircraft mechanic, kys you scab. Shills like you are partly the reason trade unions are dying.

Grew up poor in an American city with a lot of racial tension. Looked into the history of race and then capital in America, was radicalized pretty quickly.

Well to contrast the Texans rightward raised people, I’ll give my story.

I was born and raised in liberal SoCal to a family of lifelong democrats. I was diagnosed with Aspergers sometime as a kid—though the exact year is unknown to me because my parents never bothered to inform me of the diagnosis or talk to me about it.

My father was pretty neglectful, thinking about it he might’ve been a borderline narcissist, we would never do anything I was interested in, just him, so I never saw movies he didn’t want to see when I was a kid, or go to places I wanted to (like the local arcade or mini golfing). My earliest memory was him screaming and throwing a trash can against the wall of our kitchen cause he thought my mom talked back to him or some bullshit.

Around middle school I was alone and friendsless, I felt like I wanted to die. Eventually I insulted a teacher (real prick he was) and got called into the office and told I didn’t have an excuse just because of “my condition” it was only here that I learned what I was dealing with.

I made my first few friends in highschool, I was bullied for a bit but at least I had people to hang with, even if I never confided my problems to them. Towards the end of highschool GamerGate happened, and a lot of liberal “left” people I knew from forums disowned me because I took the “wrong side” in the affair. From there I met plenty of friendly right wingers who got me set on the alt right pipeline.

Every step of the way I was insulted and demeaned whenever I made a point, when college came around and my family chose my major for me, I felt powerless and angry. Then I had these professors, these infuriating people who seemed more like propagandists than teachers; people who sneered that Western Civilization was “evil” and uncreative, people who openly said that they don’t know if “whites will willingly give up their power”, I’m not making this up, this was real, and when I tried sharing these experiences online, “leftists” called me a liar.

I lost most of my highschool friends in college, I was alone, angry, and miserable. I became a flashy for a while because I basically thought that society was a conflict of different groups vying for power and that the “left” existed only to support minority groups. I tried getting myself killed at one point, it was only a few decent Marxist friends who showed me not everyone on the left was bad, and me willingly deciding to not embrace a self destructive and isolating mindset that got me out of that mess.

For various reasons both Marx and Lenin hated frogs, so orthodox lefties are left in a cul de sac in their search for edginess, I'm a maospontex post-Gaullist anarchist with KyoAni characteristics myself.

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I am very very gay.

I don't know your exact circumstances but your story made me instantly think of this song and sorry for the trash shit, maybe you can delete my post after an hour or so.
youtu.be/WNk7aEJLYF0

I used to be a rightist, but then I realized that the capitalist system is responsible for non-white immigration. Now I am a leftist, but I am also a racist.

I legit mean no disrespect but I lmao'd hard after reading this. That last part is just so honest lol.

Kalergi and Hooton plans are real user.
their origins are the same as Marx if you read your histories.

Now I'm a phil and history student and I get to really push myself to the limits which is a good feeling.

Libertarian "left" depicted is just libertarian right wearing a leftist costume

How about you read your "histories".

Im from Colombia, and people are really right wing here. My family has conections with past conservative presidents and have been licking the local elite´s boots for at least 4 generations.

As a teen, I was a "muh free market" shitlord, and fortunally my family went thru a really hard economical crisis, with gave me a taste of the real world. From there, I went from liberal, to AnCom, to Luxemburgist and finally ML. I´m kinda curious if its possible to go even further to the left, and i´m waiting for a future where my current beliefs are reactionary trash.

connexions.org/RedMenace/Docs/RM4-BakuninonMarxRothschild.htm

Because my Mother, while being a generic liberal fed me the basic idea that people should be equal but that equal opportunity doesn't exist in the modern world.

Do cocaine with the boys in the ELN.

Well as a burger looking around what currently exists here I realized that their is no long term desion making. No one with any sort of power is concerned with what happens the day they leave their job. I realized that this is because of a twisted incentive structure. I looked to people like Bernie to fix it, but when I read Towards A New Socialism I realized that only socialism can plan for the long term. Only socialism can save this country and the world at large form barbarism.

But which socialism?
you have to break the power of the international banking cabal…

Nah

t. EPL gang

...

Come on, that is barely even trying.

I'm not pushing the Nazi route if that's what you're implying.
But you have to break the parasitism somehow.

As a west rural burger, I grew up surrounded by Mormons. I held a deep hatred for religion when I was younger and that carried me through my libertarian, edgy "ironic" nazi, stirner, ancom, and finally ML stage.

...

youtube.com/watch?v=tp3HEBNvZjk

Every communist is just an edgy contrarian who realized what they said made sense.

that must be harsh

Parents lost their house due to the housing and went into bankruptcy. my step-dads shop burnt down under mysterious circumstances, the insurance didn't cover it and he was forced into bankruptcy. At 19 I was kicked out of the house and was homeless for 6 months. I worked in an AFC home where we had little say in how we are treated and how much abuse we took from our "consumers". No one was ever helped as a result. Eventually was diagnosed with PTSD and became agoraphobic. Couldn't leave my room for the longest time. I'm incredibly aleinated from most people. For instance, I've been told I'm handsome by female friends, but because of my upbringing and background I've lacked the social skills to establish a long term relationship. I don't think I could have ever been a Nazi since they've always seemed incredibly stupid, and the rigid principles that guide them would actually make me more alienated, as I don't see anything worth gravitating towards. I share no camaraderie with people solely on race or Autism Level, as I've despised people from every walk of life at some point.

not particularly. It just fostered hatred. My weird ass neo-wiccan mother simply raised me to hold beliefs that ostracized me from other children in my community. The only upside is that like , I also started off with liberal morals.

I think my fashie and libertarian phases were just me trying to impress the other kiddies in school more or less and not rooted in any real understanding. not that there's much to understand

I don't know, every mormon girl i've ever met was a 10/10 would fug, after converting and marrying of course.

lds.org/church
can't stand this bullshit

I am neurotypical

starting with liberal morals is not an upside in any conceivable way
t. also raised by mentally ill neo-wiccan single mother

Some of us did, I became a conservative after being a Marxist for several years. I still take inspiration from materialist ideas and the critiques of liberalism.

ULTRALEFT
L
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What flavor of conservatism are you now then?

Had an older thread on backgrounds in which I kind of went into what pushed me towards leftism. I don't want to just repeat the same thing, so I'll just link the archive:
8ch.net/leftypol/res/2770717.html#q2771011
What I'm mostly ashamed of and didn't mention here was my dips into borderline "libertarian" Hoppe-esc fascism

long term I would have to agree with you. I think the best thing about having a lib wiccan mom is useful in getting one to reevaluate beliefs until an evolution occurs.

I have no idea how you come to this conclusion if you actually understood Marx and his materialist analysis of history and capitalism, especially if you mean conservative in the way I'm guessing you mean conservative (as in, not right-liberalism).

don't conservatives want to preserve capitalism thio?

tho*

……..
*though?

I was raised by my proto-berniecrat parents to be as decent and loving a person as I could be and getting online in furry fetish ERP chatrooms and hearing the stories of people having serious economic issues over the years brought me to become more and more interested in politics. I ended up on 4chan's Zig Forums for a while as a confused liberal semi-NazBol for a while and then ended up here a month or so after it was founded. Since then I've only gone steadily more and more left and able to understand our natural and social systems more and more.

tldr being a furry made me a communist

I'm fully aware I'm autistic, thanks for reminding me.

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lmao, how did this happen.

t. Marx

That’s it, we have hit peak ideology.

I believe he means conservative in the older traditional sense, as in the support of a monarch and some sort of pure or mixed monarchist system. Which as I said, if he had actually read Marx, makes no sense to be.

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I started drinking Zig Forums kool aid but always kept a bit of scientific skepticism, never agreed for the "kill all europeanz" retardation. and though I was agreeing to some extent with the "race realism" I always said that we needed to maintain a focus on effectively berniecrat policy as "gommunism"

'Petty bourgeois socialist'

It's not nearly as hard as you think. It starts with thinking about the lack of strict separation between material conditions and essential or willed qualities. Marxism already interacts with both, taken in a certain direction this can lead to rejecting universalism. Without that, capitalist integration and centralization retains its dispossessive character but it becomes hard to conceive of anything but barbarism following the creation of its mass society. Conservative realism fills the void of revolutionary socialist promises to resolve the antagonisms of that society, with both being alien to the 'secular civic religion' of liberalism ruling that society.

That doesn't mean I readily dismiss the entire materialist conception of history, but I am skeptical of the idea liberalism and capitalism is moving us to a world where the main antagonism is between capital and labor, and the latter can achieve a general abolition of things as they are including lower and more local forms of human organization such as family, nation, and religious community.

Sort of, it varies believe it or not. The emphasis on capitalism comes down to the fact that in present conditions the way of life we like can only be given a niche space by the free market.

This is less of an argument for capitalism, which isn't very conservative, and more of one for disintegration.

so a socialist who happens to be a small bourgfag?

If people owned workplaces democratically they would be able to accomplish shit through their passions and not because they have to follow a profit motive. Its not like people will just stop making cool shit just because communism and or socialism exists as the main mode of production.

...

I am a former rightist. I found Richard Spencer to be charming and intelligent, and enjoyed the aesthetics of the alt right. 2016 was the most fun I've ever had online shitposting on Twitter and Zig Forums with other Rightists and I will always think back on 2016 fondly.

However, the conspiratorial thinking, the fascist LARPing, the unwillingness to consider alternative points of view outside of "muh jews" eventually bored me. The e-celebs of the right grew increasingly cringey as well; The Right Stuff guys are basically fat, boomer losers LARPing as Nazis.

While I do see a bit of conspiratorial thinking on this website and generally find the left-wing e-celebs to be cringey and disgusting, I am enjoying Marx and Engels, Zizek, non-Tumblr feminism, etc, at least as a curiosity. The right-wing cliche "You'll be left-wing until you get a job" had the opposite effect for me. I was right-wing until I got a job and I am now a precarious laborer and I understand the relationship between myself, my labor, and my employer.

The world would be pretty similar but better, we would focus on shit like health, education, transportation, communication, and other important subjects first and foremost before making shit that we want but don't necessarily need. So it puts an importance on infrastructure but still allows for shit like TVs after burgerland is no longer falling apart. Theres a reason we have the means to feed, clothe, and educate everyone but choose not too and that's because our main mode of production is commodity production. This is also the same reason why capitalism is eventually going to collapse under its own internal contradictions.

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I was expecting some idealist conception of a monarchist figure, and instead got a retarded idealist conception of what antagonisms are. Antagonisms cannot be resolved by regressing into older property relations or systems, and thinking so is no different then the fascist idea that the state and a national mythology can "mediate" between the capitalists and the proletariat to "resolve" all class antagonisms. As in, both completely ignore what an antagonism is and assume its something that needs to merely be smoothed out or controlled to be negated, rather then dialectically brought to it's conclusions to be resolved.
>but I am skeptical of the idea liberalism and capitalism is moving us to a world where the main antagonism is between capital and labor, and the latter can achieve a general abolition of things as they are including lower and more local forms of human organization such as family, nation, and religious community.
Fucking shit like this is exactly what I mean. This idea completely ignores what Marx even means by abolish and inserts what I can assume is a negation of the material conflict between those who own production and those who must sell their labour through superstructure.

kek this description is gonna stay with me

That's not what I have said and I haven't made any suggestions on this topic. You asked how I square the circle of understanding materialism yet ceasing to be a Marxist. I didn't give an argument for what we should do to resolve these antagonisms, this isn't the place to pitch that and derail the thread.

I'm not sure what you are saying, especially the latter part. I thought it was a given that a commonly owned world defined by post-scarcity would conceivably feature the collapse of those lower forms of organization I mentioned.