How will you save the world?

I'd rather humanity go extinct that capitalism survive the climate crisis. If we are unable to use this crisis to establish socialism then the world must be obliterated.

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Not that I think you're wrong about it, but by the act of teaching them how profit-driven economy is inherently anti-ecology then if they remain pro-ecology then they must adopt anti-capitalist stances regardless if they want to gas us afterwards.
It's arguably the one thing we have in common with them.

at this point our revolution is doome din my opinion we can't win but it doesn't hurt to fight tho.

Nah, living would probably become a lot tougher, but there is no valid reason to believe in ecoapocaliptic prophesies whatsoever. The only way it can happen if it leads to war and all the nukes will be launched.

Are you familier with the concept of tipping points and feedback loops? Human activity may have started this process, but nature is completely capable of driving the process by itself (warming releases previously frozen methane into the atmosphere, causing more warming that accelerates the release of methane, causing more warming and so forth).
The danger isn't that we might end up stabilizing the temperature rise at 3 degrees instead of 1.5 degrees, but that we are losing control of the process completely. That's a runaway climate change process, and it really is apocalyptic in scale. The risk of WW3 as a result of climate pressures is just an additional risk - not the main issue.

this

Sounds good to me

is that an actually probable outcome with scientific support or just the dream of those who secretly wish for the end of the world

An idea that Global Warming would turn Earth into Venus is a wild and unfounded guess. In fact, we know it won't.

Firstly, all we do is returning a fraction of Carbon in the Atmosphere that used to be there in the first place: in Jurassic, Silurian eras, etc.

Secondly, the system is stable against breaking equilibrium: More CO2 empowers photosynthesis, and depresses oxidisation, and vice versa.

Google things like feedback loops, positive retroaction, negative retroaction. Why is everyone so bad at learning by themselves, this is abysmal.

youtube.com/watch?v=9aPM4XZUbO4

This template works with any industrial/Post-Industrial country that has some sort of geopolitical power.

if you start actually reading science instead of media reports, you will quickly find out what they report on is absolute best case scenario including global radical political action with magic tech, and we're definitely, clearly, massively fucked

one, who cares the carbon used to be there, the danger is it being all in the atmosphere at the same time, second, most oxygen come from the sea, which become more acid and kill o2 producing algae when co2 raise, so no, no equilibrium

will i die from it if i live long enough

Absolutely based. Well thought out and very sensible.

Read this and find out

except for that bit where he gave up his dictatorship in favor empowering unions. how is he going to ensure his grand vision is carried out to completion if he undermines his own executive authority?!

my grand vision is a worker's federal state that works to achieve communism

The problem isn't that there is more CO2 or more heat, it's that the ecosystem has had no time to adapt to these shifts along with the other ecological damage done from pollution directly. If the oceans actually acidify too much we're actually fucked.

doesn't seem nearly as bad as that poster made it out to be. i'm not scared of no fat-tail possibilities what am i a bitch?

Your going to kill the one thing the US has going for it’s self.The fact that it produces more than enough food to feed 300 million people with 2% of the population.

pic related

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Current centralized food production is environmentally disastrous, not to mention it relies heavily on virtual slave labor from migrant workers. Decentralizing the food production will overall mean less food produced but America vastly overproduces food to begin with, and it will mean that there will have to be far less transportation for food to get on the plates of the people. Overall it is the most environmentally sound solution that still allows and abundance of food.

Kill everybody and use the corpses as fertilizer to grow trees.

why are you posting an unreadable graph

Lissen radlib, regardless of your eco-utopia, mechanized agriculture exists for a reason, it’s incredibly efficient in that it has high food outputs, and low labor inputs.

yeah, yeah, it uses tractors and fertilizer, but you can make electric tractors and using advanced genetics you can reduce the amount of fertilizer need, and recycle the rest.

The amount of labor needed isn’t that much though. It wouldn’t be to expensive for this labor to be done under socialism with no exploitation.

Yes, however this food is exported, to countries that do not produce enough food to feed themselves. IF American agricultural production is cut, those countries will starve.

Just use trains, the energy costs for transportation isn’t that much.

This romantic idea of everyone working in the fields for part of the day, eating freshly harvested organic, ethically produced, fresh food is impossible in the current day. Their are to many people for the green revolution to be reversed.

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This is good but you forgot one part

The issue is less soil depletion and more that the immense amount of water being drawn out of the ground means that the water table is rapidly depleting. Lake Las Vegas is going to disappear in like 15 years at current rates and the water table has dropped as much as 600 feet in some areas. This is leading to more devastating tectonic activity and a general loss of water in the area causing mass drought, necessitating more water be pulled from the ground to continue plant production, so on in a never-ending downwards spiral.

Most of the labor comes in harvesting, not growing. There is a reason that you can time mass migration movements to when the harvesting seasons are in the US, because many different produces don't have a reliable automated harvesting system.

The foreign policy of a communist US should be to enable these countries to have self-reliance to the greatest extent possible, not engendering them to reliance on the US state.

The less energy costs the better however, and the centralized farming industry is an acceptable casualty of this.

This romantic idea of everyone working in the fields for part of the day, eating freshly harvested organic, ethically produced, fresh food is impossible in the current day. Their are to many people for the green revolution to be reversed.

Nowhere did I imply we would go back to manual labor, just that we would spread the growth of produce throughout the US rather than hyper-concentrated into a single area.

An excellent amendment, consider it approved by the council.

Some land is simply unfit for agriculture but works for ranching. Your utopian vegetarianism actually feeds less people.

I presume that was meant for me, so I'll respond thusly.

The vegan mandate isn't about food produce, it's about the amount of energy needed to create a given number of calories, vitamins, minerals, ect. There is a simple rule that you learn in biology, that in every transaction from one link of the food chain to another, there is about 10% energy efficiency transferred from rank to rank. This means that on a purely hypothetical and mathematical level, meat is by default less energy efficient than plants, and our priority atm is cutting down on inefficiencies to preserve the ecology of the Earth.

Now that said, there is notable cases where this is not quite true. There is plenty of waste products from plants that humans cannot consume but other creatures can consume. In fact, I worked in an enclosed hydroponics project where this was the case, where plant matter that was useless to humans was fed to fish, then the excrement of the fish was used as fertilizer for the plants, so on and so forth, creating an efficient model for harvesting meat that is effectively a form of bio-recycling. Now this kind of stuff can be implemented to great effect and in fact I feel a bit silly to have not have had it on the list to begin with, for what it is worth.

This is only a problem in Cali.

You could have this done by free labor. Gotta put former marketing people to work somehow.

Countries in Northern Africa, and the Middle East aren’t going to be self-suficent agriculturally, it’s pretty impossible. Besides having something to export is good,otherwise you can’t import rare resources that aren’t found in the US.

The Corn Belt isn’t a “tiny area” Most US food exports are grains and cereals, not produce.

Yeah but let’s be honest, most of that energy isn’t going to us either way.

There we go, now we're prepared for war on a global scale.

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stopped reading there, bad plan, read lenin

Which one of Lenin's writings specifically states that "it's better to have a single leader instead of multiple who can just replace the one guy in the case of an assassination or depose a guy in the case of revisionism"?

the part where he had to spend 1/3 his life in theoretical debates with various people who were reading marx wrong and advocated for bringing about socialism in some retarded idealistic fashion
economis-ists, kautskyites, menshiviks, SRs, anarchists, etc
(which are all tendencies which still exist in new incarnations to various degrees today)

*economism-ists

Slay the whiteys and Mudslims kill faggots and traps and kill all niggers and race traitors.

Change whiteys to whiteys I don't know what the fuck happened there.

cucked lol

Wait this board is rigged to fuck it does it own its on. Jews King Zog

Why is it doing that?

Purging the left of the poison that is identity politics would be an excellent place to start, there should only be one identity in a left-wing society, that of being human.

This will unite the proletariat into a single unit rather than dozens of different warring tribes and allow them to easily defeat any resistance from the plutocrats and their bourgeoisie useful idiot allies.

both authoritarian and sociopathic, but in pursuit of good
I like it

because cyber-stalin detected that you are a newfag and decided to btfo you

Not newfag just to leftypol don't not know its rigged think I woll stick to Zig Forums

fresh off the boat poltards are the newfags here

Man, I think we as a species will have to bunker out a few hundred years of fucked up environment before we can re-green anything, let alone the Sahara. Don't get me wrong though, if there are three things to do as a newly formed socialist states of america, they'd be to put in place climate response measures for industries and civil life, form strong connections with what other socialist or at least non-imperialist nations we can, use the already vast military resources to secure the nation, and 4, figure out how to survive the onslaught of nature's wrath.

Permate revolution would be implemented. WWIII or the War to End All Wars would be started. The end of history would be near.

Stockpile books and supplies and move to a farm in the back end of the boondocks and get ready to ride out the coming chaos that is pretty much impossible to prevent now.

After the chaos and the lawlessness and the banditry dies down then society can build a minimalist socialist system out of the ashes of capitalism.

The current state of the world is that we are hurtling towards disaster at an ever increasing rate and we passed the point of no return sometime around the year 2000, now all we can do is hang on and try to ensure a remnant of the human race survives.

Eh? Ok.
Me? Damn…
The Righteous Ones finally ripped the Yankee scum down?
Integrate, Disseminate, and Destroy. Control Measure 1.
I doubt they'd give a flying fuck after The Cursed Alliance fell, but hey whatever. I say, let them isolate; fuck cake.
Negrito-san please, why art thou not planting more trees? To stop pollution you have to be like a garbage man and send all the filth straight up into the sun…or a Hyper-Fund Site that acts as a depot for our garbage.

I would Sectionalize all of North-America and individually select those territories and city-states worthy of entering a Confederated Nation-State that follows the will of the people with proper guidance. Just like our Founding Fathers wanted.

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how can communism save the world if it didn't saved my chink grand grandfather from starvation?

Nuke Israel.

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I have proposed, in the past, that the JDPON should disperse the Amerikkkans throughout the Third World instead of allowing them to remain in occupied North America. Here are some of my reasons:

1) A geographic concentration of Amerikkkans would facilitate counterrevolution. It would also be difficult to exercise proletarian dictatorship over hundreds of millions of enemies: we would need to import a huge unproductive sector of police and such from the Third World. As a practical matter, it would be better to thin the Amerikkkans out, making them minorities in the Third World, where they could easily be controlled and supervised by the international proletariat.

2) Amerikkkans will need to undergo re-education. It would be very difficult to re-educate them in their own kkkountry. They need to be in a proletarian environment where they can learn from the masses.

3) There are land claims to settle, mainly for the First Nations, but also for Aztlán [occupied Mexico – MSH) and perhaps the Black nation. Conceivably some other nations could be moved to North America if they wished to be, such as Nauru or the small nations in Ghana whose land has been ruined by imperialist corporations. Amerikkkans are going to have to move out of much of North America and make room for other nations.

4) Amerikkkan kkkulture is almost totally reactionary. There is little worth saving in Amerikkkan kkkulture. It would be better to force Amerikkkans to assimilate to the more culturally and politically advanced peoples of the Third World. There is also historic justice in forcing Amerikkkans to assimilate, just as they destroyed so many other nations and cultures.

5) In the early stages of socialism, the Third World will require skilled workers and technicians of various kinds, including medical personnel. These persyns are disproportionately concentrated in the First World. Moving them to the Third World will be a practical way to address an urgent need.

6) The Third World is also owed big reparations. An excellent way to make those reparations is to put Amerikkkans to work building infrastructure in the Third World: roads, housing, water supplies, sewage, electricity, telecommunications, schools. Amerikkkans can also work in Third World factories and fields to expand production for the benefit of the Third World.

7) Part of the process of civilizing and proletarianizing Amerikkkans will be putting them to productive work–for a change. Amerikkka has so little productive capacity that there may not be many ways to put all those people to work in occupied North America. They may have to go to the factories and fields of the Third World.

8 ) Amerikkkans will need to be reduced to a Third World standard of living. If they stay in occupied North Amerikkka, they will benefit from the vastly better infrastructure and all the stolen wealth that they currently hold. It would be better to move them to the Third World as a way of accelerating the process of re-education.

9) There are historical precedents for relocating large numbers of enemies. Millions of Germans were forced to move after the Soviet victory over fascism in World War II. Even enemies like the united $nakes and the "united" KKKingdom agreed that it was necessary to move Germans off land that was needed for Poles, Czechs, and others. Again, this is related to the national question of the First Nations, Aztlán [occupied Mexico – MSH], and the Black nation.

reddit (dot) com/r/Drama/comments/c86zb9/leftypol_writes_about_how_they_will_save_the/

Why are the right so pathetic

Shit it's my thread, I'm famous now!

Also r/Drama is just /b/lite so ignore them.

What's the red line supposed to be? I hope it's not a trend line.

Anyway, while I agree that global warming is unlikely to turn Earth into Venus, we are already in the middle of causing a mass extinction event. That alone is enough reason to take urgent action to protect the environment.

Hello Black Red Guard. Glad to see you spewing Sakai-ist nonsense again

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but wheres the lie tho

Listen.
I can agree with fundamental parts of Sakai's analysis/criticisms of the white proletariat. People with more money and privilege tend to not want to overthrow the current system, it makes sense in an essentialist sense. But It isn't universalist and relies on specific examples in America (and Anglo Nations like Canada, Australia, New Zeland, South Africa) to base its entire theory in. The problem is the idealist lens that Sakai and Sakai-ists view and analyze history can be ahistorical sometimes. They believe that race in itself is a class and that the primary struggle of man is the struggle between races. The also believe that reactionary settler colonial nations can't be revolution which that is dependent on current material conditions as well as historical institutions of oppression (slavery->jim crow->mass incarceration). Sakai-ism and post-colonialism is based in the superstructure analysis of society and culture. It is a sort of post-leftist in this regard, it turns Marx's analysis on its' head and assert that cultural antagonisms like race and income levels really determine if someone is working class or not. Labor aristocrat and pest-bourgeois are huge insults thrown by this crowd, and let's not forget social fascist. A lot of race issues have their root in economic inequalities not some inherent white or black struggle. That is some alt-right tier Nazi masturbation fantasy shit right there fam

At least some post-colonial theory is legit material analysis. It's the Gonzaloites and the Sakai-ists who are the most batshit crazy Maoists giving Maoists (and Mao) a shit rep

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Do we need to add sakaism to the instaban list in the rules
I mean if one tells you it's ok to punch a fascist or national soycialist

One should immediately slap them across the face with the back of ones hand, if they ask why tell them because punches risk lethal haemoriges sp? and you don't want to kill them even though they're a fascist because there are now many good comrades who are former fascists and you think they could end up one

This is truth, this is praxis

I didn't base that post on Sakai; it is in fact a copypasta and I was purely shitposting but since it sparked serious discussion here I go. Forget about the race (Mexicans, Blacks etc. deserving exclusive land) part.

US-Americans, even proletarians, do benefit from the present capitalist global order, and American supremacy over other peoples (especially in name of the latter's own good; carrying the white man's burden) is deeply ingrained in their culture. InterNational Soycialism must be open to the possibility that the standard of living of Americans has to decrease considerably, and that Americans, even many self-professed socialists, will be upset at a socialist world order if they are not in positions of leadership.

We kinda need to recognise that we're going straight into war communism right after the revolution if the revolution and the species is going to survive.

This means Labour,carbon and resource accounting mass projects, hyper funding recycling centres and green waste disposal, forest planting, carefully decentralising food production. Building an exergetic economy is going to be a mission I don't think we're all too ready for tbqh.

We need to be either re-planning or tearing apart suburbs, propping up society wide scaled care-work institutions, requisitioning housing etc. If there's one thing we need to learn from the right wing, it's shock economics. The way we build buildings and connect them to each other and our bodies facilitates capitalist reproduction in the base and especially with the neoliberal counter-revolution, the superstructure as well. Socialist construction needs to disincentivise the re-insititution of capitalism because our living spaces simply aren't built for it. Capitalism needs to become untenable and then unthinkable.

Tearing up roads to stop the heat island effect, mass laying down of new rail and public transit infrastructure, redirecting distribution, effluent disposal, fucking power lines and internet cables etc.This is going to some fire and Brimstone tearing down the dying body of the old God kind of shit.

Guess I took the bait on that one then, might've seen the copypasta before but all post-colonial rhetoric looks the same to me now that I've read a bunch of it. I just feel the need to call shit out because I feel that Sakai-ists and Maoists like Black Red Guard have a tendency on being retardly dogmatic and ideologically and they don't get criticized for it. Not to mention those ideas can give people a bad impression of the communist movement. Organize on class not by race, although the United States is a culturally stratified nation. People just suck their dicks endlessly (I'm looking at you Badmouse) all because they adhere to a weird bastardization of post-colonial theory.
Agree shit like the suburbs and everyone owning a car/truck is something most (white) Americans wouldn't stand. The American lifestyle is wasteful and decadent. Even moreso than other Anglo nations like Canada and Australia

Nah I want to see their idealism get smacked down here

Awesome we can all backhand him without guilt
Who else?

Sorry, but this is retarded. Despite being a commie you bought into the lie our government pushes that we all live like Kings here and that communism will make us poorer, when nothing could be farther than the fruth and I can't even afford a simple studio bc of capitalism.

Communism won't make us poorer, it doesn't make ANY country poorer, it has literally no downsides.

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Maaate a long time ago we used to banter by calling subcontinentals poo in loos, now we banter about burgerfats especially in SanFran being pooinloos
What benefit are these americans getting from this especially the prolateriat, I mean at this point tgeir living standards have fallen below india
How much lower does it have to go?
The burgers are so demoralized they don't even take it good humour unlike the pooinloos who I'm calling pooinloos because they pooinloos unlike americans
At this point many subsaharan countries may have better living standards than the prolez of the USA

Let's say I don't dispute your point on standard of living. I was going to make an educated guess based on the world's GDP per capita, but it wasn't a very strong argument.

American culture would still rally Americans around resisting any kind of world order in which they are not respected or feared as leaders. Americans will not accept that their opinions and politics do not carry more weight for being American. They will not accept that they don't get to rule "shithole countries". If the socialist goverment in, say, Syria does something that Americans disagree with, the people of the US will use whatever power their have to interfere to do what is "best" for Syria.

I mean, China is socialist now and a considerable portion of American self professed socialists spend more time attacking "Dengism" with talking points from the actual US State Department than trying to build socialism in the US.

Americans might not be the only people in the world to think like this, but they are the only with enough resources in their country to mobilise a war machine to effect their will.

Not sure what provoked this tirade about the evils of American culture. Perhaps you thought I was trying to exaggerate the revolutionary potential of America? I actually think it ranks lowly in that regard compared to many other nations. I only replied to your post because I disliked your suggestion that capitalism benefits people or that they have rational reasons to defend it.

But anyway, American socialist organizations are shit, but not for any of the reasons you think they are. They're all too busy trying to get white people to pay reparations to worry about invading Syria or conquering the world. It is the unanimous belief of pretty much all of them that military spending should be drastically reduced.
No one in the world thinks like this. Obsession with domination and conquest is confined largely to elites. The vast majority of humans are too apolitical and disorganized to care.

Only a small number of people need to organise it, the majority of Americans will gladly join the effort and do their part. You can exterminate the whole bourgeoisie and put the American people in full democratic control of their entire economy, that won't stop someone from organising war.

Go to, I don't know, any news or political discussion reddit forum, especially leftist ones, and see how many people fantasise about invading other countries.

These are common people. Perhaps not very representative of average people, but definitely a large section of common people who directly gain little other than excitement from wars, yet support them anyway. For common people, polls show consistently high support for war, too, that only begins to die down when the war is going on and seems a failure.

news.gallup.com/poll/232997/snapshot-half-americans-approve-strikes-syria.aspx
news.gallup.com/poll/1633/iraq.aspx

If any kind of world revolution is to happen, it must take away all economic and military power from the Anglo-Saxon people until they are reeducated into not using it for oppression.