is the revolution doomed? we have about 11 years to wn against the capitalists and in that time. we can't do shit in that time. we can maybe win a country or two but not the whole world. i want to have hope could anyone give me any in anyway?
Is the revolution doomed? we have about 11 years to wn against the capitalists and in that time...
if green state capitalism/socdem is implemented it will greatly reduce carbon emissions and give us something more like 20 years. Alot can happen in 20 years
The revolution isn't doomed but the planet is. Heads will start to roll once the full effects of climate change hit, billions will die and the survivors will have a chance to build socialism.
Worst case, we'll still have plenty of time to lynch some oil executives and their political enablers.
Worst case I'll have to kill them myself
the only thing these future doomsday predictions have in common is that they've all been wrong
We have 11 years before the destruction of much of the world is inevitable by the end of the century, but I don’t think mankind will go extinct, instead what awaits is a Dark Age
Succdem rekt with facts and logic.
thanks, that actually helped. still the USSR couldn't do it in 70 years.
What? You think climate change is gonna wipe out humanity?
It's just gonna destroy 80% of biodiversity and at worse force humanity to make a tonne of nuclear plants to feed machines that remove carbon from the atmosphere and sea. It's horrible, but it's not the end of humanity.
Even if ends up creating enough turmoil to cause a million civil wars.
Maybe you would like that, if all governments collapse many dictatorships will show up and some of these hellholes are bound to become soviet like communism.
No we don't
We don't have any time to prevent planet-destroying climate change, but WW3 is gonna happen in the next couple decades or so which will hopefully allow us to use that instability for global socialist revolution.
It won't save us, but it would make our deaths more comfortable.
Actually, if this recession ends up being a particularly big one, I could see WW3 happening soon. 5-10 years, possibly.
I see tactical nukes getting used in the periphery probably before 2030, but not only do I not see the rationale for anyone initiating MAD, I also believe cultural cannibalism will have gone on for so long by now that not only will the bombings be livestreamed, there will be humanitarian drones flying in (because EMP is a meme), and you will be able to choose whether to strafe the hibakusha or maybe give them food and water or meds or anything else and it will have all the menus for donations and rockets and so on and it will be beyond personalised ads and shitty gaming and so on.
Maybe we can merge the Forever War and MTW into a passable interactive LN in the future.
I was thinking about this. The rich will take off to their bunkers but their lawyers, tax accountants, media personnel, other such wealthy employed enablers who reshape society constantly to fit their masters desires will likely not be let in. There will be no need for lawyers when there is no law, accountants without taxes, etc. They'll be the ones who are actually going to be tossed to the poor too unleash their rage on.
"Unemployment" statistics are all bullshit and fail to tell the whole story about joblessness and parecariousness.
How did the Left fair during the last two world wars?
Well WWI was pretty instrumental to forming the USSR and WWII to the PRC
This is probably the wisest answer in the thread, unfortunately.
Kids, the 'we have 12 years to fix climate change' stichk from the IPCC and mainstream media is pure bullshit. Anyone who knows the IPCC knows they're conservative as fuck (they were intentionally created as the political official on climate change simply because they were built from the ground up to be controlled). Feedback loops? Disregard. Old-as-fuck data? "The best measurements". Imaginary technology that doesn't exist at scale? "Do you think they'll believe negative emissions are possible? Of course they will, they're dumb as fuck!" There is a wealth of fictionalization, downplaying and sheer lying that is necessary to give you the '12 years to save earth' meme. The reality is that you have -60 years to prevent devastation, disaster, chaos and collapse of global civilization, and an extreme reduction in industrialization. The loss of biodiversity in the last fifty years is already cataclysmic, you just haven't heard about it.
There is no prevention, only resilience. Rolling with the punches is the lot of our lives.
Unless your a poacher what’s the big deal?
Good for those feudal backwaters I guess. What about around the hubs of capitalism?
Predators affect the food chains beneath them. Simple example is the reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone Park. Ungulates were stripping riparian habitats of foliage because they had no predators, but since the wolves were brought back the park has increased in overall productivity.
The loss of mega-fauna isn't the largest concern here, tragic as it is. The loss of insects and plants, the things at the bottom of the food chain which impact that rest of what we might call The Web Of Life(tm) is what is really concerning.
And even if we banned internal combustion engines tomorrow the effects of China's industrialisation haven't even shown up on paper, and Germany survives on its exports and Americans are just complete fucking shitters anyway, so yeah XR and Green New Deal are the new idpol.
There are tons of other things too because ecology can get really interdisciplinary, and I won't even get into the temperature and ocean level stuff, but the periphery is already fucked, and I know all those Greens are good people, if not a bit too posh, at least for my standards, and I'm also against defeatism, but any sort of cybersyn for the green future should be ready to deal with ~3 billion refugees, and I don't know how the reins can be taken away from the green bourgies and their ecofascist goons.
I also think the Club of Rome was practically a psyop, and that GLADIO goes really deep and basically the CIA thoroughly wiped out communism in Europe over a 70 year period and maybe even the 90s much less the 60s weren't as idyllic as portrayed.
If you guys really think environmental collapse is inevitable then it stands to reason that our best course of action is to save as much as we have learned in some way that the next language using, reasoning society may come to quickly understand our notes and help build their society up quickly in a way that we didn't have. It needs. to be accessible to non-human species and humans alike to begin teaching as much as can be taught as quickly as possible, be stored in a durable format, and help make our current society as archaeologically accessible as can be, the hybrid of the Obelisk from 2001: A Space Odyssey and the Rosetta Stone. In so doing we may hope to become the progenitors of the society that grows to develop the communist project towards its inevitable conclusion.
it probably still will be
Wouldn't global communism be ideal?
Fossil fuel reserves will be too scarce for a new industrial revolution I think, there's no time in Earth for a second sapient species and have you heard of the Fermi Paradox.
When I talk about this I think its important to recognize some of what we really are and doing. We are a product of nature, itself a product of life, which itself is a product of the environment. Humanity is not "separate from" nature or the environment, by being the product of these things we are Nature and Life and Environment all acting on themselves. The Communist project is thus not just Humanity's goal, it is one of Life's goals. If you actually are dedicated to completing the Communist project we must first truly comprehend how much it genuinely compromises and thus take actions that best work towards completing Communism, regardless of whether this current society is to be the first prototype of its type to fail.
I like your drift and I admire the sentiment but that sounds spooky as hell, post Kardashev I would understand it in an SF setting, but overgrazing is also perfectly 100% natural so ecocide is as well, if we're the product and subject of such mystical forces.
And Humanity isn't a thing either, it is the subject Communism hopes to create out of the rubbles of class and country.
Part of the importance of leaving a set of archaeological notes on our history and what we've learned would be in helping overcome that limitation. We could detail biofuels and show them how to use much of the industrial machinery that we will no doubt leave behind. Further we will still have accumulated much of the resources into a few locations to be made available for them to access much more easily.
I try very hard not to become a full blown doomer regarding global warming and the possible end of human civilisation as we know it but reality makes it very difficult.
I am talking about our literal things around us insofar as we can conceptually talk about them , just as a conceptual whole of the processes of each rather than the very limited way in which they are usually talked about
Humans won't die off of course but billions of people will and the rest will live in terrible conditions relative to the end of the last century.
I invite everyone to try playing 'Fate of the World' and getting a good ending, it's hard and shit but even that game allows the unreality that the world could unite behind a global environmental body and agree to follow their demands.
Forgot the link : below2c.org
I like that because Metroid Prime was maybe my favourite game as a kid and I felt for those bird fellows, so maybe I'll make all my shitposts into a logical circuit and I know how a laser works too but I'll leave that to other people, so all the space dolphins and whatnot will just be fucking autists who communicate using alpha decay and at least I will tell them our sad story.
And they'll know who Debord was, and who Haruhi was and all the important stuff and the nerds will give them nukes or something, I don't believe in science anymore because the NIF was a dud.
I kinda get it, but I think you're replacing these very strict terms with something way too abstract and all encompassing, and so much of philosophy is lexicology so I don't think we can clear this and it's quite meaningless imo, but here's a nice book.
I agree, the Chozo could well be a bit of a model here. And yes, I am talking very broadly, perhaps a bit too broadly. I mean by each of these things the rules that govern a system coming to interact with the physical makeup of that system to cause them to change and interact and evolve.
I think the philosophical validity of doing that in the first place really is less important than the point that we are part of everything and everything will continue to be after our temporary existence, we can hope to continue our project part our own death.
Never heard this take b4, what do you mean?
Oh god, it’s the retarted ancom furry.
But not Uranium
Humanity is as much a product of nature as a serf is a product of feudalism. What humanity is doing now with climate change is a revolutionary act. it is the overthroughing of nature. Humanity has abolished nature.
I don't know what your background is but I missed the word Chozo and Hegel missed the word emergence and maybe that's a problem too.
And I think that real thought on these issues can come only after a certain technological level, because Knowledge becomes another one of these processes, so I really think the problems of actually navigating total system history is better left to philosophers in the future where folk punk alliance and the Cockshott nerds join hands to create a post-transhumanist Ghibli utopia that ranks on the Kardashev scale, and maybe it goes to eleven too.
I can't post more due to size but if you're interested in that stuff the Santa Fe institute is your thing, they have things on ecological networks and cellular automata and really many things.
And now I really want to be a hologram telling some scared alien about Gunbuster and Turing, so thanks I guess.
Also there is redundant coding in circuits and Shannon's theorem and all that but I'm just a bum but really any college book on Stochastic Systems or VLSI tells me that the Russkies and the Americans and the Chinese aren't as scared of EMP as the movies tell us, I may be wrong.
Also the robot-frying in Fukushima and Chernobyl was done to different technology and above all under different radiation spread models than a bomb, especially if they go ground burst they could send the drones in minutes.
Also the military robots work fine in Fukushima now, space exploration taught people a lot about many things and circuits was one.
Just use nitrogen fixing crops like beans and shit.
Pointing out that non human species are capable of coming to reason, learning, tool use and more is just the logical conclusion of accepting that materialism means that material makes mind.
I always thought Trots were the Left Hand Path of communism and this confirms it, nice.
What type of reactor is the way forward right now, in your opinion? I mean Hinkley Point is a disgrace and France isn't replacing much either and I think the anti-nuke guys are gonna get us all fucked real, real bad, but I know all the good Trots support massive nuclear investment, no?
They aren’t, they are stupid and retarted
Interesting. So you can build tech so that they are shield from EMP attack but since shielding is a function of mass there's a trade-off, so an EMP would probably be effective against things that need to be light. Unless you can get the circuitry so small that shielding it adds such little mass it's a non issue.
And you're under the flag that I made intentionally bad for retarded people .
Wouldn't Faraday cages be able to stop most of it without much of the mass?
Faraday cages can't stop quasiteleporting particles from frying stuff, but good design can help a machine withstand that, to oversimplify.
I don't know the exact details but I believe that very soon the big militaries will find EMP to be at least surmountable, at least for unmanned vehicles.
The Red Scare in Europe happened and it had machineguns, basements and arms depots deep in Bavaria, and there were 3 generations lost between prison and social ostracism due to their beliefs and they were the good guys, but their shadow lives and really there is no capitalism in the future so why don't you socdems please understand.
I have nothing against the NASA people, even knowing about Paperclip.
Also Roskosmos is post-counterrevolution so just as "bad" as NASA, in ideological terms, if you want the alternative.
Reminder that we've never seen a revolutionary wave user. We've never seen how fast the ground falls out beneath everything. We almost won in the last one. We can win this one, organise for an upturn and stop pining.
Where do you think fossil fuels come from? Give it a couple billion years and the planet will have new ones.
700 million years from now the increased luminosity of the Sun will have killed all plant life, and there are asteroids and gamma ray bursts from hyperenergetic supernovas before that but I leave them out because I trust in geometry and luck.
But there's still Thorium I guess.
That is not going to happen, Sol has a limited lifespan unless we want to inject quadrillions of tons of hydrogen into it.
I do point out that we could create some level of infrastructure that isn't entirely dependent on fossil fuels, eg. teaching biofuel, wood gas, and low-tech thermal solar energy collection to make possible to either create new or repair and run (hopefully) extant machinery that would be needed to collect genuinely sustainable energy sources.
I might be wrong about this, but even given billions of years will we ever replenish fossil fuel reserves? I thought they originated at a time when the Earth lacked microbes that could digest plant matter, leading it to accumulate in massive amounts over time, something that would be impossible today.
People seem to think it's a cake walk.
No, faggots. The SPD took decades of dedicated work to get to the brink of revolution in 19 - including internal warfare, revisionist backlash etc.
The RSDP took a bit over 20 years of HARD DEDICATED WORK and millions of hours spent to get itself in the right position in 1917. And, of course, everything was also connected to a broader picture of capitalist meltdown resulting in the world war.
They won't. Heads don't roll now over big incidents.
And also, breakdowns of capitalism are still happening and will continue to happen. 2008 was a good chance, but the labour class being at its weakest since probably the start of the 19th century, nothing happened.
90 % of the world population will die in the next 50 years
The SPD are actually literally worse than Hitler and the Spartakists broke off just like that and they were running the newspaper in Leipzig in a state of complete fucking chaos as they were chased by police and still they tried because really the party is just inertial bullshit and every time they take their precious power it's a failure, and of course what remained of the party and the unions but especially the fucking SPD did everything they could to sabotage the revolution, whether that entailed sabotaging and disrupting every possible workers' assembly to sending out the fucking Freikorps.
Well apparently Bolshies spent most of that time trying to open a single book and still failed, and most of them were executed anyway so here's to the lost hours.
So next time choose non failure parties please.
In that case shit's truly fucked.
I'm thinking more about some other species becoming sentient billions of years down the road after we go extinct.
Sea ice is getting blown the fuck out again this year, especially in the Artic (see ).
We could get a blue-ocean-event soon in the next few years.
Yes. Revolution isn't going to happen in this century.
I can see hundreds of millions if not billions of people dying, but barring total nuclear holocaust, I have trouble picturing a "dark age." Modern science has made humanity too clever. Socialism will come sooner rather than later, but the transition won't be pretty.
Anprim posadist synthesis.
Nigga even just so far more biomass is being destroyed quicker than any other mass extinction event ever before. We've been losing species faster than the Permian-Triassic extinction event in which 96% of marine life died. It's very possible that we have destroyed the biosphere enough and quickly enough to see an end to complex life on our planet for millions of years.
it's not gonna be climate change itself that wipes out humantiy. it's gonna be the secondary effects. there's ample evidence that major world powers are gearing up for a third world war. it's inevitable: the nature of capitalist imperialism is that resources must be redistributed between powers when profit rates begin to stagnate. and hey, what do you know? profit rates are stagnating as we speak. an economic crisis more severe than the great depression and the 2008 recession combined is on the horizon, and i think the after effects of that will lead to world war. 21st century world war will be brutal and most definitely involve widespread use of weapons of mass destruction (nuclear, biological, chemical, etc)
if my predictions are correct and a world war occurs, we can kiss any dream of reversing climate change goodbye–war is fucking horrible for the environment. so like, imo not only is climate change going to accelerate, global casualties are also going to accelerate as neoliberal capitalism goes to war against itself leading to the eventual collapse of global society. :3c
so i don't think humanity, in the population sense, will be wiped out entirely. but i do think that humanity, in the 21st century sense of global interconnectedness, will disappear…in other words, humanity will lose its own sense of itself. but i agree that this crisis could allow for communism to emerge, probably on the local level.
but what do i know :/
Yes, but this is the first tim where it is being directed by intelligent beings with agency.
We already have several highly intelligent species that are almost capable of starting to tread the path that we walked down.
Thing is they have maybe a million years to get there.
I'm talking about other animals here and now.
I am responding to a brainlet. Shame.
to the majority of the population, modern science and technology is basically the equivalent of magic
You'll get over your socdem phase soon.
Nah, global warming is the miracle we need. A lot of retards need to fucking die before we can achieve communism, all the scum and positivists will be fucking butchered before rationality can return. EVERY inch of liberalism will be wiped away.
I used to despair at the prospect of a dying world, but when i look around, everyone is so happy and upbeat. Even with the highest suicide rate, more slavery than ever before, a melting planet and worsening worker conditions. Yet all these fucking cunts just call you a loser and "incel" if you point it out. So just let it fucking burn, let it get worse to the point that it's inhospitable. Maybe then the cunts will realize EVERYTHING needs to change, instead of just pumping individuals full of drugs to make them "normal".
Gamers rise up
Based. the only mistake communists made was being too nice, letting the scabs in the west get away with their sucdem shit etc.
Well Stalin was instrumental in providing the backdrop against which Social Democracy reached its zenith and its historical role may be ambivalent but at least it helped improve the living standards in Europe to an unprecedented degree so that's a weird post.
And post-Krushchev USSR are socdem scabs themselves.
But the sentiment is nice I suppose.
Broke: Killing 8 million to save 100 million
Woke: Killing 8 billion to save 100 million of 8.1 billion
I'm normally not this edgy but I've been growing angrier lately. To hear that things are getting worse, yet everyone is living happy, fulfilling lives is just an irreconcilable contradiction. It hurts my brain.
it's a "not in my area" attitude, by the time the noticeable effects are seen/felt by the majority of the population it's too late
Blue Ocean is gonna start in the 2020s, complete collapse of techno-industrial civilization and the last 150ish years of human history by 2060-70
You could always leave the imperial core.
Maybe this is the fate humanity deserves. at least capitalism will stay contained to earth.
Hahaha, poor next-timer. Our number is up comrade.
Capitalism cannot be contained to any single planet, unless you mean solely in a human perspective. Overcoming it is necessary for any species that reaches the thing we know as humanity.
Depending on which religion said it first, either Zoroastrianism or Christianity in 'apocalyptic prophecy' mentioned the Earth being destroyed/melted away by 'heat' or fire in its end stages as a subconscious consequence of 'evil actions'?
What else do you want them to do? It's not like either being miserable or happy will do anything. Only proper pragmatic aktion can maybe, not wishing for the cleansing of humanity because people have too much fun and you're not in it. If bourgeois politics only offer them vague promises that maybe we'll get out of this via magic tech or limp-dicked tariffs and regulations and they don't know what else could fill that gap then the only remaining thing to do is overdose your days away.
Buddhism's schatology also includes the earth being burned away in a 'sermon'
Dude, we absolutely can not fix this. We are already losing seaice and methane rich permafrost at exponential rates. The planet is fucked. We likely will not overthrow capital in this crisis, we will all just starve. It's over amigo.
Birds and cetaceans, having no digits, will never be able to tread down the path that we walked down. Maybe if the chimpanzees survive another human-like primate can succeed them. The gorillas and orangutans certainly won't.
This, but unironically. If all on this planet will deny me a classless society, then all on this planet will die.
except one problem, the effects of climate change will be more of less permenant. The whole of the earths population will have to be confined to smalls parts of arable land in canada, northern europe and parts of south america. everywhere else will be unihabitable to humans, at least for another several HUNDRED years, even more if you count the gases trapped in the ice shelf
and tundra. sage
Seriously, if the human race wants to bootlick to extinction then fuck the human race, it deserves to die in that case.
What’s bad about positivism?
Climate change is not some divine force, but a problem to be overcome? Just like humanity overcame the Black Death.