Gorby in hospital!
i hope he burns in HELL
Why the Blue Mountains Gazette?
He'll be stuffing down Pizza Hut pizzas in hell for sure
I can't bring myself to hate the guy. He was an idiot and an incompetent leader but he wasn't an anti-communist or anything. The one who really deserves your hate is Yeltsin.
Yeltsin legitimately betrayed the revolt.
Please Gd, give us back Domenico Losurdo and we'll give you Gorbachev.
Pretty much this. I like how Deng said in a private meeting that while Gorby might appear smart, he's just a fool.
I read his book on Perestrika, he was a good person but a nobooks pussy with what turned out to be maybe the shittiest praxis in human history so he was truly ML.
Rest in pizza
Compared to what, comrade?
Go talk to kids your age who grew up in Novokuznetsk or Magnitogorsk and they'll tell you what the MLs achieved or you can go to Gary or Detroit and imagine it 10 times worse.
Because when you've spent 7 fucking decades building up a socialist superpower, with all those nukes and the jets and the giant factories and the largest steel industry in the world and 26,000 tanks and all those nice songs and all the nice things and you let some alcoholic fucker destroy everything and bring the very blackest reaction ever, all the blustering bullshit ever written about Makhno or Kronstadt or even the SRs should just make the shits hang their heads in shame.
And Gorby should have gone full people's war and opened the depots, and they should have played October instead of Swan Lake, and the people in Moscow should be waiting for the ГКЧП tanks waving assault rifles, even the little girls, because all those millions of dead heroes and all those trillions of hours of labour went to less than nothing because ML retardation had turned the Soviet Man into a cynical, apathetic pussy who thought Shalamov and Sholzenitsyn were the coolest shit ever because revisionism really can make you do the strangest shit.
And I can't find it on libgen but there's a book called Kapitalizm and you can read Alexievich too to see what happened in the 90s and what happens when you go too revisionist.
Yeah yeah, the USSR was far from perfect (which became evident when it fell, something we all regret), but it still represents the greatest achievement ever performed by any socialist organization in the history of man. Claiming it's the shittiest praxis is just absurd.
Gorby had the shittiest praxis ever, because all that remains from the USSR are faded red stars in luxury apartments, and Bugattis rush down the Arbat and the house of writers is a restaurant and I've even eaten there, and even the burgers understood that the goal of a revolution is to survive and really nostalgia is a capitalist malign tumour and the little kids got heroin needles instead of nostalgia.
Did someone have a wank on his head ?
We agree on that point at least
Look, the tanks came and a shithead drunk and his liberal friends made them turn back.
So where was the praxis, really I want in my heart to read all the alternate timelines and of course I believe the USSR should have been saved back then and be brought back now because it was the best country in the world, but the fucking tanks came and they had turned into pussies too, so no it's a systemic total failure because we communists don't believe in personalities.
I'm harsh but the collapse of the USSR really was the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century and of course Social Democracy is already dead now so we felt the catastrophe on the streets and we still feel it, and really your shitty flag isn't even a real tank it kinda looks like some perverted ISU or something but you should all be ashamed.
If only /ourguys/ had executed Yeltsin and Gorby for crimes against the people and restored order with the help of the other socialist countries. but they were also tainted by liberalism and let their enemies alive or even free. Even with revisionism it did not have to get nearly as bas as it did as is proven by China.
Even worse than Gorbachev and Yeltsin is the current leadership of the KPRF. They won the 1996 election against Yeltsin fair and square, yet refused to do anything about the election fraud because they "were afraid of civil war". What a bunch of disgusting, contemptible cowards.
It's also very funny because Clinton actually did what his cucked wife screeched that Trump did, and it wasn't just collusion but a million times worse, practically all the media monopolies were created just to pump out neolib bullshit all day long, and all the oligarchs really became a problem because he started distributing TV channels to them only to create an environment of total information control, and the shitlib Americans dare, dare to use the word Russiagate and talk about the dictatorship they created with their own fucking hands, and really we all know that when the time comes we won't make any excuses for the Terror.
Also I don't know if it should go on the book thread but anyone who feels his rage getting dampened or depleted or anything can read these books.
Sounds p interesting
Got anything to read / listen to about the history of this?
He realized it was pointless going through what he did.
Especially the second book(Kapitalizm), the first book(Secondhand Time) is a collection of first person narratives about the aftermath of the collapse and you should read that too because as I said nostalgia is useless and what we need now is rage. Also you shpuld read at least the entire backlog of the eXiled, if it still exists, because I laughed and rejoiced when I saw people talk about NazBol all those years ago and maybe you should read Limonov's novels too, because really we need piping hot incandescent fury.
That the last soviet book sounds pretty shit, which was to be expected of anything given the nobel prize or other western awards. It defends some oligarch as a "prominent liberal", which is clearly a positive in the author's mind, against corrupt putin seizing his assets, as if the billionaire had not stolen the wealth from the public in the first place. It also neglects to mention how the Communists won the 1996 election and how Nazis and NATO were behind the Maidan and just screeches about muh russian invasion. I realize that the book is bunch of interviews but clearly they are going to be at the very least selected to create the narrative the author desired so not representative at all.
That's where the rage comes from, bud.
Linear propaganda bullshit belongs to ML times and see where that got us.
You mean like reverse psychology? I think these propaganda pieces have the opposite effect it has on us on most people which is why they are propagated.
Also everything they say is a result of the alienation they endured as Soviet citizens so really dopy nostalgic Westernoids with a shitty red fetish can go off and get shot in some school if they disapprove of the ideological purity of some factory worker or other. And if you grew up there you know how much shit was going on but you've also talked to the good people and saw how bitter they were so you need that book only as a mirror, really.
Also the good soviet writers said that Mann and everything western was completely shit and all the things ever were fascist propaganda, and people should only read mediocre socialist realist hacks pumping out fucking fantasies so nobookism is to be disapproved of.
Also there's a DiaMat book here if you're a purist
Well MLs loved spoonfeeding people too and teaching them how to be good citizens and that's why when it was all collapsing they became good citizens which means apathetic shit or ultrazapadnik liberal.
And don't try to defend the Party members because even the ones who didn't become billionaires were 100% useless and they should have died in the streets to defend the revolution and many of them died in their dacha 20 years and some other fuckers string brainlets along on their antiimperialism grift.
And Putin is a fucking liberal too so there you have it.
Aithors are clearly not "some factory worker", they are a tool of war and not controlling the media was failure of the government, but really it was sabotage by the guy in the op. Not spreading counter-revolutionary propaganda is a higher good than satisfying geed for muh books.
Is there a translation of diamat.pdf?
He is an anticommunst, I just like his foreign policy and don’t pity other bourgies he fucks over.
The government should have taught people to go after sociopaths and execute them, they clearly did not create good citizens at least not for the actually existing world were there are evil people. Putting all the blame on the last few communists for not saving everything single handedly is hypocritical while you are giving a free pass to the young, educated urbanites who were instrumental in bringing about the overthrow of socialism, most of them are living better lives now than they would have because they nabbed a piece of the pie that was robbed from the majority too. Though to you they are innocent because it would be wrong to keep some bourgeois propaganda from them tat is of high technical/literary quality, maybe everyone should all watch Chernobyl too as it has high production value.
It should, because they reinforce the order that favours them, it is feedback loop. They will always exist because YES human nature and until we have complete control over the genetics/biology of people we will need to find a way to reliably uncover and eliminate them, the damage they cause is incalculable and i don't care for their apologia washing them free of guilt.
We should also force them to wear something so we know exactly what they are.
Maybe a star or some shit.
This, but unironically. Better would be an irremovable implant or so, technology has given us so many possibilities.
Please, I stopped writing because you'd think I'm a completely crazy person if I started to rage about the urbanites.
And no, what you call the simple factory workers should be exposed to Western propaganda too because they should be able to criticise it, and all the unironic personality cult and groupthink going on here is because you see the bullshit the USSR had turned out to be by the 1970s and think that's the model because muh state power.
And that's because you've been indoctrinated into worshiping power all your life and think that Soviet power can liberate you, and really most of Soviet culture is just concentrated spectacle and all the marches and the fucking tanks everywhere make me vomit.
So you've recently broke out of your fascist thought bubble because right wing is schizophrenia and you still try to cling to comforting tales about the other side, and in your denial of Nazism and Americanism you try your hardest to deeply love the USSR mostly without thinking and that's how people turn into comfy succdems who think China's kinda cool because they half remember their youthful fetishes.
I don't care if you read the book or not, I only liked approximately 5% of the books I've read in my life, just understand that the images you worship are a mirror image of America, and yes the NEPmen were all giant ameriboos and Lenin was a bourgie moralist retard as well, just understand that all those beautiful things are gone forever and there aren't any approved books anymore, and maybe there shouldn't be such a thing as an approved book because that's how you get to late capitalism.
And yes you should contrast all your little Gospolizdat books with Marcuse too, and do critical reading of everything because the commissars weren't lazy, it's just that their job was bullshitting, and maybe that's why Kropotkin was a STEMfag and MLism is the ideology of the paper pushing aspiring murderer.
And if you can't even read Russian and still like shilling about Putin so much while he does all the worst neolib shit in the world and Russia has a fucking 13% flat tax which makes Japan look like at least a socdem Utopia, maybe you should become an educated urbanite too and just hang yourself like all those people did in the 90s or if you like dead Russians so much there's Akhromeyev too.
Nothing against you personally and sorry for the tone but saying I gave a free pass to the Nemtsov and Yakovlev shits made me really seethe, because Medvedev is just such a fucking shit himself, because that's capitalism.
And there will be protests and everything else but it will be the NazBols and the people whose pensions are fucking evaporating due to Putin's magnificent foreign policy of using Ukraine getting coup'd as a chance to reclaim the fucking retardation of Cornman, and maybe showed what the brotherhood amounts to and maybe Stenka Razin should make a fucking comeback too.
And no people don't give a shit about the color revolutions in fact they hate them, but there's a point where the spooks stop carrying the day.
The Czars found out in 1917 and the Bolshies in 1991 and Putin soon because spooks never carry the day in the long run because alienation is a symptom of the malignant tumescence that is modern society.
People who unironically believe in the existence of human nature are to be ripped apart by unhinged, ferocious, bloodthirsty crowds because 新大文化革命 very, very soon.
Again, no personal insults to anyone but please never call me a fucking liberal again.
I thought he was already dead.
Nah, but he began looking like that Namek king from dragon ball.
I said that people should be trained to identify and fight corrosive elements, but being inundated with bourgeois propaganda all the time makes that pretty difficult. Late capitalism brought the freedom to read whatever you want, it's ridiculous to see someone make the soviets responsible for it.
Nice psychoanalysis. I was always economically leftist and always disliked the US.
And the UK has tax haven islands with less. It is a strawman that I ever defended Russias interior politics, but it is thanks to them and the PRC that the little socialism there is in the world has not been annihilated by the US and its vassals yet.
Idk, I don't have the motivation to learn languages anymore and cities are disgustingly loud.
Also you are simply delusional if you don't believe in human nature. It defines the window in which societal interaction even can exist, denying it is simply idealist and prevents you from creating a system that can best account and counteract the horribleness tendencies of humans.
Psychoanalysis is a disgusting reaction of decadent and rather empty Austrian bourgeois ideology to the colossal threat Austromarxist mass education and social psychology posed to the concept of obedience, if you like staying on the shore and laughing at the people swimming in an ocean of bourgeois shit. I use the 'you' because I like Musil, like I said it's not personal.
And human nature is just the expression of social relations and in its aggregated nature can of course be overcome and maybe children should not be reared in raw primitive shitholes or in rotting incubators for the lumpenbourgeoisie, and there you will see what human nature means, because really there were people who fought for communism and died pointlessly for communism because it is the movement for the abolition of the present state of things, and education was supposed to create the Soviet Man and they created shits, and maybe the UK should be cleared off and given back to the Welsh, but still I have hope that even this reactionary shithole can get its shit together. Because even if people are getting raised from the day they were born with the deepest stigma against eusociality because the insidious logic of capital accumulation unfolds in their every breath , their every action and their every though and all that other shit the leftcoms wrote about but mainly they too were wanking over assemblies and categories and maybe they should have learned Haskell, even those people can be saved.
And the tax havens are chock full of chicoms and russkies as well as septics and take a walk in Knightsbridge if you're a Brit, it's a chance to learn Russian, and the PRC fucking turned on the Soviet Union full power and almost had a war, so that's what they think of materialist conceptions of history and socialism.
And the horribleness tendencies in humans is because the only way to convince people to live under such a horror is to convince them to share, and people do it because as Camus wrote there is noone baying harder for the rebels' blood than the housetrained, and really if you give a person a cop badge he will become a cop, and if a person learns to like the whip he'll dream of holding it too.
But really the horribleness tendencies of humans all are an expression of their social nature, and of course a sick society is populated by sick humans and building a healthy society makes you a healthy human, and the horrible people are the ones whose portraits people are spamming here all the time.
And no the US and its 'vassals' aren't some mystical invincible force, the ingenuity of the Empire is its recuperating nature, and maybe all the Chicom billionaires where coopted too when they started shelling the USSR, and maybe they too are the horrible people with the tendencies.
Deng is Gorbachev if Gorbachev was a smarter politician imo
I wouldn't go as far. Deng actually is an OG back from the early CPC days and didn't abandon socialism, or not to that extent. Gorbachev on the other hand took vacations in the west (makes ya think, huh?) since he became somewhat noteworthy in the CP.
why? he tried to keep the Soviet Union together but lost
deng is worse, he won ands used his victory to intrudouce capitalism
A social democratic soviet union. He didn't care a shit about socialism and admitted to have been on a mission to destroy it. He even put Yakovlev, an anti communist, as the head of propaganda. Yakovlev was asked later if he knew the reforms would destroy USSR. His response? "and we did it before our opponents woke up in time to prevent it!"
Get the doctors LOL
Gorbachev admits he was not a communist but a social-democrat and wanted to destroy the Soviet system.
P I Z Z A H O T
Not an argument. I don’t care that if the origin is pure enough, only about the predictive qualities.
There was always some variation among humans, if that was not the we would never have evolved. This implies that there will always be people who are more sociopathic, more charming, more attractive etc. whose inborn advantages will be used to gain preferable social relations for themselves and of course they will use their increased power to change the system of social relations to further tip the scales in their favour.Thinking you can solve this with education and amenities is nothing but utopian, there will always be fucking sadists who will harm others just for the fun of it. What is therefore needed is system that accounts for these variations, identifies them, eliminates sociopaths or at least marks them and counteracts their influence to remain stable instead of snowballing out of conntrol
These harmful individuals exist everywhere, including Russia and the PRC, you are the one talking about the spirit of the “soviet man” or whatever. That is why a proletarian panopticon of surveillance and a totalitarian enforcement apparatus is necessary, but particularly positions of influence need to be under extreme scrutiny and control as they attract the sociopaths.
Imagine being this much of a dogmatist behaviouralist. Maybe we should just give all people anarkiddie badges so we can have our squatopia. Certain types of professions attract people with different characteristics in the first place. Getting rid of the badges is not going to get rid of these people, it is better to have an institutionalized organization instead of just having individuals do whatever the fuck they want with no oversight or accountability.
No, they are heroes of the exploited and oppressed classes. The horrible people are the sociopaths and those who enable and defend them under the guise of granting individualist freedom and fighting “authoritarianism”, which never disappears but is only made less visible and therefore more easy to manipulate and more powerful.
absolutely savage post
Why would a soulless yacht seeking little goblin do that?
because he legalized all books so he is clearly a good guy
GORBACHOV DEATH THREAD
POST YOUR FAVOURITE PIZZA HUTS
t. not able to actually critique it, hence: "it is bourgeois!"
take the L bourgeoisie
Yeah but the people only watched cartoons by then because that's what shadow Americanism does to a society, and really I can't see how people can defend a society that created so many US worshippers and maybe it's because Toqueville was right and America is an experiment in creating the most obedient bootlickers in the world.
You mean descriptive, normative and coercive qualities, and really I agree with penal psychiatry 100% and I have party connections too which is the most important thing in a communist society so maybe after the revolution we can watch Guy Debord and all that wonderful Mosfilm stuff together in some basement or other. There will be dogs and injections and car batteries if you like , as all real revolutionaries have a torture fetish because that's what emancipatory politics is about, acting out a perversion of what the capitalists told you communism is.
Maybe fighting against the structure that enables that would be a good thing, no? I mean even the most beautiful girl in the world gets called out if she starts saying idealist American shit, even in the smokiest sweatiest squat in the world, because even under capitalism there are people who think there are things more important than horniness, and those other "charming" people can be easily neutralised because really without their cop badge all those spivs and manipulative brainlets are just ridiculous if you have been exposed to their arguments before.
And I don't like anarchists that much either, it's just that squats still exist, in stark contrast to the totalitarian panopticon you seem to like so much.
Are you American/Brit? If so, I completely understand your position because as Che said you grew up in the belly of the beast and trust can be an issue when you've grown with nothing but psyops. And Europe is chock full of psyops too so there really isn't much of a difference, it's just that Communism wasn't completely eliminated because fascists are pussies too.
Let's say I am one and I have party connections and good proletarian certificates and I've read all of Lenin's book 10 times but still because I hate revisionism my hobby is crushing the heads of newborn kittens with a sledgehammer, because I like the symbolism. Someone reported you for idealism because you said that professions and personalities are something unchanging but mostly because he wanted to fuck your gf and you come in my office.
Historical necessity, right?
And of course such things happened in the USSR and the PRC all the time because you said that yourself.
Cure yourself of idealism, understand that the reason a revolution MUST be authoritarian is so that the enforcing class, namely the proletariat must acquire the agency to protect and maintain the revolution and Mao was right on the people's war, maybe.
And really the peasant communes were more like your hated squats than like the capitalism that followed, and I'm not defending Mao in his entirety, I'm just saying that if you're a Marxist (I'm not), you'll agree that it's not an issue of authoritarianism vs liberty or individualism vs collectivism because that's idealism and Toqueville was right about America. Also Gorby managed to slither his satanic potato sack figure through the totalitarian panopticon and the scrutiny too, as did Yeltsin, so maybe we need a rethink.
Also I don't have them with me but some Maoist should share books about the barefoot doctors and the peasant communes before 1970, that's some real inspiring shit.
УРА! УРА! УРА!
Да здравствует, созданный волей народов,
Единый, могучий Советский Союз!
He should have died before he could have done what he did, his death now is a meaningless celebration in the aftermath of total defeat.
It wasn’t that Gorb was an ebil man who betrayed the “revolution”. The dissolution of the ussr was just the logical consequence of the usurpation of power by the bureaucracy who could not compete with the capitalist states which dominated the world market. As a social group they had no material interests with continuing the socialized property forms won by the Russian workers and thus they forcibly dissolved the ussr. That’s why the wealthy capitalists of Russia today are the former bureaucrats and that’s why the Chinese bureaucracy also had no choice but to restore capitalism.
Leon Trotsky was shunned and ridiculed for suggesting that the USSR would either have a genuine workers revolution or revert to capitalism. He was proven right yet Stalinists refuse to admit that they never had a Marxist perspective and that the bankrupt “theory” of “socialism in one country” would never pan out.
Well most of them aren't even real doctors, there is absolutely no scientific basis for any psychoanalytic method nor any way to map or track its therapies.
I love bullshit conversations with such people and really they can be fun, but they're the closest post-1900 Western Europe got to a priest class, so humanities majors should spend most of their time in potatofields after the revolution.
Zumindest bin ich kein Drecksami lol
Wrong. We are getting a surveillance state either ways, as the only difference is whether it will be in the open or not. If they are insitutionlised and transparent they aan be controlled by the public instead of a small rulin clique, which is why i said that thoe with the most opportunity for abuse are to be controlled the most strictly, which is not what happens under capitalism and even in the USSR it was not sufficient unfortunately.
No, I live in the 4th Reich.
lol I wish
Peasant communes are idealist. They will not feed and maintain 7 billion in a world of dwindling resources, it requires even more centralization and planning than the current liberal capitalist order can provide.
I'm a Christian and while I know that my fellow communists hate on Gorbachev for the wrong reasons, I pray for his future, and I pray for him living another 50 years. All of you "leninists" and "anarchists" who shit on this gentle man are only jelly at his achivements.
God, Jesus, may you grant another 50 years for this Holy Man, and also Grant long life to those who pray for his soul at this very hour.
A - men!
And yes I do mean predictive, as you can measure them and give probabilities about their future outcomes that are significantly better than random.
Please don't misquote me, I said the totalitarian panopticon you like so much, and I know MLs don't like humour but of course I knew we live in a dystopia because I pay GEZ and I don't have a fucking TV.
Read Cockshott. I would say you should read a ton of Aragorn too but really after Cockshott you should read SICP to become a fanatical communist and start getting into the weirds part of Haskell and maybe you'll do that Let Over Lambda shit real good, I read it too but I'm just a fucking brainlet bum and I prefer novels because maybe I'm lazy too.
And maybe I'll manage to save up money for a Dacha near Omsk and I don't think that Cockshott is the only or best way out much myself but all you dedicated alienated code monkeys will be welcome and people who want to be farmhands or labourers too, but mostly all will do a bit of everything.
I need some 5-6 years at least for that because capitalism really is the worst cancer in the world, and all the shit Russian billionaires gentrifying the cities are warning examples of what revisionism can do because you can see the Mercedes star among the red ones standing outside the Mausoleum, and there was a huge Samsung sign too.
And about the predictive part, maybe all schools should be at least Montessorian, how bout that? Of course if you put peopr in a Kz they become Muslims or Kapos, or maybe we can be the Nazis too.
Basically now that I think about it Germany is even more psyops because I've read Gehlen's memoirs and the BRD is just a mind control experiment plus ultra cop for the European continent, really the whole country feels like an NSA simulation sometimes and maybe it was designed that way.
Came to post this. Pizzaman obviously fucked up, but he wasn't trying to break up the Union like Yeltsin.
Funnily enough I did, even did the exercises in Racket but at the point with the chess game I did not really know what to do and lost the motivation to continue, as I so often do.
A bunch of people in my class were from such a school and they did not really seem any any better. I maintain that people are inherently different and that there is some room for adaption does not invalidate that. You will have nazis in any sufficiently large group no matter how great your meme commune is.
It's the realization of Germany's bourgeoisie ruling over europe as they finally learned that subtle methods of control are more powerful than rolling in with the Panzerarmee.
Well, see, we agree on mostly everything, it's just that living in Germany (and the EU is Germany too by now, just with less Hartz IV) has made you extremely pessimistic and distrustful, and the nazis get shot because we don't give a shit about peaceful coexistence and the people who have the personality type to be nazis under capitalism will just be the village idiot in our maospontex commune but we'll treat him well too because there is such a thing as a revolution of everyday life so we'll make them wash the dishes.
This is just what alienation looks like, and really on the part of non-Kz schools turning out shitheads too, well of course, it's like the problem the USSR had and like the problems squats have, you can't survive such encirclement and bombardment, and I don't know if you hate him but really if you feel depressed and unmotivated you should remember the poor Känguru and fight for socialism with everything you got.
Because a society where RTL exists should not be allowed to survive.
There's this Doku too if you want perverse motivation.
And read that Lambda stuff too, if you want. I prefer novels.
Variation and diversity in personality are to be welcomed and can be achieved only under sufficiently advanced socialism, because capitalism is just a torture chamber so of course people grow up to match their cage, have you seen those horrible videos from the poultry farms?
They can be achieved right now by anyone with the means. But the problem is that variation in personal characteristics sort of snowball a person either upwards or downwards in a self-reinforcing spiral and ultimately the winners will seek to codify their dominance into the official societal order.Competition is cancer and capitlism of course amplifies it but it predates civilization. Primitive society sucked too and those poultry farms only exist because superior beings are exploiting them for their own benefit and industrial farming is effiient.
Well trying to pull off that shit in malrauxspontex Europe after 203x gets you executed in the very worst way.
About that civilization shit I'm sure Engels and the bread book and The Soul of Man under Socialism are in the books thread, so if you disagree in any point you can tell me and anyway 新文化大革命 very, very soon so don't worry about civilisation so much.
I believe competition and authority are not simply outmoded forms of organisation, they are the real primitive barbaric shit, and I'm not even vegan but still I think that shit is unnecessary and utterly disgusting because the profit motive is even worse than revisionism but you are free to believe what you want.
Any person who attributes the fate of the USSR to a single person is clearly an idiot.
In the USSR groups of people did amass under heads due to their patronage system.
So what's the update, is he good to get out or on the way to hell?