Lefty Black Pill: Revolution only succeeds through World Wars

The horrors of the First World War brought on a revolutionary wave throughout Europe, as the working class of Europe saw how expendable their lives were to their nations and the capitalists, as the war seemed like it would never end, the workers of Europe and especially Russia rose up and put an end to the nightmare, as the weakened imperialist powers found themselves unable to fight the tide while pushing the war effort, leading to the destruction of the Tsar and the creation of the first, and most powerful socialist state to have existed.

The even greater nightmare that was World War II allowed for the success of the Revolution in China, leading to a wave throughout Asia as the one that swept Europe. In Europe itself it allowed for the further consolidation and entrenchment of the USSR, forcing the European world to embrace social democracy for a time to prevent its citizens from joining in the revolutionary cause, rising living standards significantly, whilst ensuring revolution would not occur.

Revolution can break out without the horror of war, but it cannot succeed without the horror of war, war weakens the state to a point near collapse, war inflames the rage of the proletariat as they watch their friends and family die around them, not to mention war presents the devastation of capital and often leads to economic depression as an immediate after effect (World War II being an exception as the American state was spared devastation, allowing it to invest capital in Western Europe and parts of Asia to rebuild them, and make them bend the knee).

The deepest fear I have, is that revolution cannot and will not succeed without a Third World War, and yet a Third World War will likely doom an already doomed planet and will spell the end of our species.
Is the dream truly over?

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Yea you're right.

Huh OP, doesn't seem to have worked out too well in the hub of global capitalism each time.

This is, again, ignoring the success of the Russian and Chinese Revolutions due to the First and Second World Wars

Oh yeah, and
Gee, it's almost as if WWII allowed the capitalists to escape violent revolution in the US.

Yes, I stated the US capitalist class grew strong due to he war, did I not? However, it holds true for the capitalists of Europe and Asia, the war severely weakened them and galvanized their workers, had America also been devastated the same could have happened here.

Revolutions happen when the system starts failing. It's simple as that.

Both of which quickly gave up on socialism and were terrorized for decades by the new world superpower that came out of WWII. I'm not convinced WWII was beneficial to the interNational Soycialist movement over the long run. The Left within the US went on the decline for over six decades afterwards. The invention of nuclear weapons is the only thing that protected some ostensibly socialist regimes from swift annihilation by this new superpower.

It seems massive war can be locally beneficial to some Leftists in some states, but capitalism hegemony tends to simply migrate and strengthen its position elsewhere. Also although the previous world superpower (Britain) lost most of its empire, it was never weakened enough for a successful revolution at home.

you are right but also wrong, the World Wars lead to revolutionary action because they themselves were crisis of capitalism, namely the needs of imperialism to perpetuate the capitalist mode of production. WW1 was fought over the colonial ambitions of Italy and Germany, and WW2 was ignited by the imperialist expansion of… you guessed it, Italy and Germany. Finance capital inevitably needs countries to exploit so that they can make a profit, and nations can secure these markets for these finance capital investors through militant action. The inability to do this for whatever reason is why the Great Depression and other massive financial collapses happened, as a consequence of running out of places to exploit along with the debt economy collapsing in on itself, revealing all the money of the capitalist class to be a facade, and laying bare their domination over capital itself. This is the moment when revolution is most likely.

So Revolution is most likely during the next ten years?

Yes, the capitalist class averted the worst of it by looting the proletariat so they could keep their debt economy going in 2008, but there isn't enough money for another bailout this time. People still haven't recovered from 2008, so when the next collapse comes it will be brutal to the whole population.

Well Germany only escaped revolution by a hair in 1919.

This isn’t a black pill so much as it is a pretty standard part of Marxist theory. Gramsci, Lenin, etc argue that revolution only becomes possible when a crisis of capitalism makes it impossible to govern in the old way, and the ruling class must either take dramatic action to preserve capitalism (fascism, social democracy, etc) or be destroyed. Like Wobblyanon said, the world wars were themselves crises of capitalism driven by its contradictions.

the middle class needs to be punished for not going along with it.

they'll nearly uniformly go fashie anyways so we will have ample justification for gulaging them

How do you guys get those flairs?

"Show post options & limits" under the reply box.

Hi Reddit

Cheers, user! Just in time to kill myself, revolution be damned.

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Damn bro, didn’t know you’re limited to using one website out of literally billions

I made three threads criticizing leftypol because the people are happy to discuss whether or not blacks should exist, it has horribly shitty aspects, but also okay aspects like the lack of idealism and the fact that most people here are well read on theory, I’m interested in the various insights into the future and the world, but I don’t think I’m wrong to critique horrific racism and homophobia. I have no intention to apologize.

lmao

On a scale of one to ten how old are you

No, you labelled Zig Forums's users as 'scum'.

Yeah, sure is terrible that people are allowed to say what they want without getting banned. This is a place for free discussion, where most of the users are emphatically not racist or homophobes. This is just about dumb redditors not understanding chan culture and its deliberately shocking use of language.

I’ve seen threads openly discussing why blacks and gays shouldn’t be massacred after the revolution

This board has a lot of Zig Forums and /b/ shitposters.

Realistically, how the fuck should someone feel seeing “communists” talking about murdering them and they’re family after the revolution because of the color of their skin? How the fuck is that remotely different than the people I’m fighting right now?

we aren't a bunch of radlibs who ban discussion that offends our sensibilities, we go and tell them that they are wrong and why, and then usually post memes about how dumb they are after

Point me towards one of these threads. You can use the archive function since there's obviously no such thread in the 300 threads currently up.

Do you really believe a majority of people here are secret nazis lmao
fuck off asshole

And, idk, maybe they’re just trolls, but how the fuck should I know that immediately, and why would I think it’s different than the rest of Chan which is pretty much a cesspit?

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If I thought that I wouldn’t post here at all, people are utterly losing their shit over posts from days ago on a website you claim not to care about lmao

I’m a fucking ardent Leninist dude

Not wrong tbh

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I assume you mean the guy saying that race is important? Yeah, the thread was anchored and if you click the thread, you'll see everyone telling him to fuck off back to Zig Forums.
And yes, the rest of the chans are cesspits. No one here is disputing that.

But I mean, like, if I also thought this board was a terrible Nazi cesspit with no redeeming qualities I wouldn’t browse and wouldn’t post, I posted this thread here because I felt it fit the tone here better than it did where I originally put it, so obvious I think there’s good things about this board and think the discussion here is better than CTH

From your reddit posts, that sure seems to be what you think.

Yeah, because I had just started browsing this board. In terms of people being more read on theory and having a grasp of global and economic politics I think this board is better, mostly because most of reddit doesn’t seem to understand what’s really going on, even most of the left subs don’t

How'd you get that flair pall?

that is wonderful but chapo reddit is still modded by radlibs and runs in a radlib fashion

Zig Forums is different because we want to recruit people rather than idly post memes as the world ends, hence why we let reactionaries post

Just used the option thing

I should go back to reddit

I don’t think it does though, it just doesn’t reach out to reactionaries, but it doesn’t do retarded shit like banning the word stupid or retarded or insane like almost all the other left subs do

Let me quote you
So are you a lair or a retard? The sad thing about reddit is that your posts are there for anyone to browse.

Oh noes I hurt your feelings with a critique days ago?

Once again, why do you people give such a fuck about Reddit drama? Do you think anyone from Reddit that doesn’t already use this board will come here?

I'm just calling you out for being a blatant liar.

No they just by majority hold the same opinions like being anti-gun or thinking that welfare capitalism and socdem policies are the apex of communism. It's not about the superficiality of how their communities work, it's the fundamental beliefs that permeate the community and color its debates. There is no leftwards pressure there because they earnestly believe that fucking Sanders is the real vanguard.

most reactionaries don't even realize that leftism is an actual thing, they see liberals do cringy shit and simply decide that conservatism is the only option. And a lot of fucking conservatives especially young ones end up in imageboards like halfchan and here.

keep in mind that fascists do get some things right (reminder that mussolini was a syndicalist), we just need to steer them in the right direction.

You're really slow and the fact that you don't think you need to inculcate yourself into a community to understand it leads you to make retarded gaffes like not realising that this is a communist space on a predominately fascist website with anonymous posting, which naturally leads to fascists posting on this board.

Either you're actually just dumb if you don't understand this, or you're a willfully dishonest faggot who has to pretend that you're coming here to "expose" all those darn crypto-fascists in order to glean acceptance and upvotes from radical liberals on a different site so that you can post content from here on there without getting ostracised.

The fact this transfer of information only goes one way (from here to reddit) means you implicitly are conceding that the level of discourse here is higher, but rather than just keeping your involvement of communities seperate or even just acknowledging that you can attempt to critique this community without having to pander to redditors.

You're the worst kind of spineless fag and that you seem to think you can play this off as if no-one can see what you're doing as if it's not a big deal that would make both communities think you're cancer is pretty funny.

Transfer of information? Lmao literally the only “transfer” of shit I felt was important or relevant was me transferring a thread I made on Reddit to this board.

Nobody actually "cares" about reddit drama. Nobody's banning you or even telling you to actually leave. It's just a really shitty thing to criticize the community here behind our backs, lie to either us or them, and then pretend to be nice and civil to us. Especially when the criticism itself may well be the result of right-wing falseflaggers engaging in intentionally deceptive speech like they always do.
By all means stay, but please get some honesty to your posting.

Well, yeah, that’s why I don’t shit on this board anymore, I started making threads because I figured it’s actually okay, but it’s incredibly jarring at first

Repeat after me:
"I'm sorry"

Not sure you've entirely understood what I meant by transfer but whatever, seems like you've kind of understood how imageboards are different from reddit and are on your way to no longer being a newfag.

The reason why people here are prickly about reddit, is that just like the countless fascists on this site, supposed "leftists" from reddit also come here after being told that we're some kind of reactionary rightist-deviation (or for fascists, some kind of secret cabal of jewish trannies) community based on various mischaracterizations (complex topic, but lets not get into that here) , and then proceed to shit all over the board in equally cancerous ways as gems from the far-right you've seen, attempting to either castigate or even transform this place into a community that is exactly like what most people here are trying to get away from.

When your first threads are sperging all over the board without understand the full reality of the board, and there is clearly a link between you posting on aforementioned reddit communities that hate us, then regardless of intention or not, you've actually just done the same thing as the bad-faith actors, and ultimately we're not that interested in catering to that. There are a million other places you can do that shit, but Zig Forums isn't one of them.

They succeeded despite having to go through those wars, not because of it. The World Wars were a disaster. It's a miracle that Communists were able to salvage anything out of those shit situations.

Bullshit. There's no way the Bolsheviks would've seized power in Russia without WW1. The message of getting out of the war was one of the main things that attracted the working class of Russia to the Bolshevik movement.
"Peace, land and bread"

No u
Stop using reddit.
Use mastodon, gnu social, Diaspora, Hackernews forums, gentoo forums, imageboards that arn't 4chan or Zig Forums for that matter, fukkn email subscriptions to Monthly review and physics today.
There are tons other than reddit to get info, the news user here seems to get good websites, vsit those.

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There was Cuba, but I'm not sure how much help they got from the USSR.

Irredentism is not imperialism, Italy betrayed Germany(of course), Austria and Russia started the war over the Balkans and while French revanchism also played a role, the main force behind the Entente and the War was German and US industry outcompeting the British one, and if you haven't read Luxemburg or Lenin you should at least read Thycidides.

Wew lad

I agree with most of your post and of course it's the inevitable logic of capital that breeds these wars. I'm just saying that if you tried to convince a normie irl of that and used such an introduction you'd be laughed out of the room. So really, of course it's capitalism, but the details can be important too, at least for agitprop.

WWI was crucial for the Bolshevik revolution, but it we have no way of knowing if another form of crisis would have done the job. There was a first attempt in 1905, after which the Bolsheviks grew steadily in both size and influence. There has been large scale revolutions without massive wars, like in France. The situation in non-Western countries and the Imperial periphery is more complicated still. Cuban revolution succeeded without external war propelling it, and there was a serious attempt in Finland in 1918, though it was defeated by the Whites together with the Germans. In the coming decades I suspect the environmental crisis could be a sufficient catalyst or a catastrophic enough economic collapse, which we're sure to see, most likely more than one (if the West survives the imminent crash, it will be due to some short-sighted bandaid solution, and will soon lead to another, bigger crash). I also understand that within the Chinese military there are still non-insignificiant Marxist elements, which could tip the scales if there was a sufficient mass uprising.

That's the Struggle Session then. To be faced with your past so that you can fully accept being brought into the present.
I accept you.