Dole

Not if you refuse to work. You’re only part of the system if you associate with it and think yourself part of it. I’m a NEET, I’m not part of muh reserve army. I’m going off the grid soon. Stay a slave
Maybe they shouldn’t be dependent on the system and go off the grid

Don't be surprised if you get the wall when the revolution comes.

Yep. You get the wall.

-nice individualism. How many can get "off the grid" without leeching in some form of industrial society?

Wow, so you’ll kill me if I refuse to take part in your giant industrial machine?
Typical urbanite mentality. The consumer lifestyle and ever increasing prosperity is as bourgie as fuck and damaging for the planet. Lumpen pride, worldwide. Don’t bitch about exploitation and muh capitalists when you can disconnect yourself from the system at any time. Starve it. Porky is scum, therefore refuse to deal with him

Lmao

Cope. You can become 99% self-sufficient if you try hard enough and have the will.

Attached: pure.jpg (500x579, 47.66K)

Attached: 14E4B273-BC87-47C2-AD3B-AD8D7295F078.jpeg (640x452, 46.98K)

Literally nobody cares if you move innawoods and actually manage to feed yourself but that's gonna be hard work though. You'll affect nothing, however, and capitalism will continue to wreck the planet. Thinking you can opt out of capitalism on any scale larger than a small collection of individuals is fucking idealism.
I think you're just turning to some vulgar pseudo-leftism to justify your neet-dom.

Genuinely living out in the woods somewhere isn't being a lumpen. You aren't going to do that though. Be honest to yourself. At most you'll have a big LARP about it.
As is the idea that it can be fixed by everyone "going off the grid." Pure bourgie ideology.

You can't. Homesteading is a capitalist consumer identity. They tell you you can escape buying products just to sell you more products. It's absolutely typical of late capitalism.
And even if you belong to the 0.01% of homesteaders that actually manage it, the lifestyle is utterly non-scalable. It'd be a disaster if everyone tried to live like that. You're just a reactionary hippie with no actual solutions.

uhm akshually that is individualist wrongthink and very triggering. You will die on the revolution!
Amish
Neet-dom needs no justification. You’re keeping porky’s machine well-oiled and running as a COG

Starting to think this is bait tbh.

COPE
Meaningless

Every time.

Better than doing some awful dead-end job, maybe, but it's still terrible compared to having a job with prospects. You should definitely look for jobs like that even if they seem unattainable.

I'm not from Ireland but I imagine it is quite difficult for them to 'come down on you' for this. If they ask the employers whether you applied, they'll get told it's confidential. In the UK they often try to make people give them access to their emails so they can see the applications, but they legally can't force you. I was on the dole for 9 months without applying for a single job - I just looked up the job adverts and wrote down the details as if I had applied for them. And never got into trouble, although I was careful to act like a good boy so that might have helped. If you piss off your supervisor (or whatever they call it) they might look for a reason to sanction you.

The true revolutionary praxis.

Another successful thread

B O B
D O L E

You’ve yet to explain how working for your capitalist masters is harming capitalism. Go on, I’m waiting

1. better to work than to risk starving
2. you can't unionize without working
3. trying to harm capitalism by quitting your job is kind of like trying to bring on the apocalypse by shooting yourself in the head

As commies we should seriously consider this

...

...

yeah fucking right
then we have a lot of work to do, don't we
You're not really familiar with how that shit works, are you? Do you know what my life expectancy would be like?

If you can’t see the difference you’re stupid. The Angkar was a revolutionary communist organization that distributed to participating members of society according to need and provided for them provided they work. There was no exploitation or even classes. It was the perfect society. Capitalism is inherently exploitative and retards here think if you keep working for capitalists something good will come out of it.

First world proles live like kings compared to people in pre-industrial times. You’re just scared of a world without endless consumer products, the watchful eye of the bourgeois state apparatus and a secure income from your masters
People’s war.
A long life of wage-slavery is meaningless and wasted, a short life can be much more fulfilling if lived free from the confines of the rat-race. Also, nice individualism bro

I'm scared of having nowhere to live, no secure food supply, no medicine, no tap water… but fuck me, right?
Yes, I'm supportive of a revolution. But it's a revolution led by the PROLETARIAT, you fucking chud, and not just random survivalists and hobos who are "off muh grid"

Kamp flag if you seriously believe what you're saying then there's no reason for you to not just leave for your own.

Yeah, fuck you. You’re so bourgeoisified that you can’t even comprehend having to put E F F O R T into getting some food or finding some clean water. It’s not that hard, I’ve done it a few times. Places to sleep – easy as well. You don’t need a permanent home, either that or squat in an abandoned place. People lived more or less like that for millennia but you’re such a pampered labor aristocrat that your desire to be a slave is obviously much higher than your desire to crush capitalism.
YOU SUSTAIN THE BEAST WHEN IT NEEDS TO BE STARVED
Please tell me when the proles will wake up… any day now…

I am serious, I’ve lived the lumpen life on and off and it’s only a matter of time before I go full Ted-mode off the grid.

Then do it, but don't try to argue that this is some solution to the problems of capitalism that could be generally adopted on a society-wide scale. It's escapism for the individual.

If everyone abandons capitalism and returns to the land porky will be starved out and have no one to make shit or produce shit. It is absolutely a solution.

will just use brute force violence to arrest you and put you back in the system, don't delude yourself that they'll sit by and watch helplessly as everyone walks away.

maybe don't put effort in eating from the trashcan next time, it's bad for your brain

don't you remember what happened to the tribesmen you envy so much

Attached: *blocks your path*.jpg (850x850, 106.75K)

okay you're literally never going to convince any significant number of people to do this, but i thought i might just warn you that all of you will end up dying

If everyone joined a spontaneous general strike, we could have socialism by next year. You're engaging in pure idealism

tfw all we had to do was run screaming into the forest and try to live off of tree bark

Attached: ClipboardImage.png (172x294, 94.27K)

The anti-civ pill is much more palatable than you’d think once you’ve enlightened someone to the reality of capitalism without forcing piles of dusty Marxist tomes onto them. I engage in no-books praxis is spreading the good word, though I’ve read much myself.

SURELY THIS STRIKE WILL COME SOON, THE DEATH KNELLS OF CAPITALISM ARE A-RINGIN’

I knew something was missing from this thread

I want you to explain to me in detail how the fuck your plan is viable for any significant number of people. Please, humor me.

Synthesize Pentti Linkola, Ted Kaczynski and Pol Pot and the answer should be clear

Surely people are ready to leave their lives by the millions to die in a situation they're not at all prepared for.

Attached: ClipboardImage.png (900x673, 1000.61K)

and how do you propose that enough people voluntarily become drifters, nomads and vagabonds long neough to fuck over capitalism? how will they be sustained long term?

I am also on benefits, and as a consequence I engage in no social modes of production, so I opt for wasting my life on the internet, talking to ideological masks instead of engaging with the proletariat at an effective level.

I think a greater tragedy of this experience is that it has made me sceptical of the idea of solidarity, through the information of my personal experience, which is obviously a deadening, solipsistic attitude. I need to get a job soon - not to fulfil any "responsibility" or proceeding spooks, but because it is better for your mental health and for your intellect to work with others.

I had a job 2 years ago, it wasn't that bad - I can make up for lost time by taking Adorno's advice anyhow, maybe I'll value my time for personal development if it becomes more scarce, also.

Attached: hybrid.jpg (480x360, 23.43K)

You sound like a prick

I am a prick.

I've been on it for 7 years, currently they call me back once every 4 weeks because of the amount of claimants they have. Only going to get worse in the future, free dosh for me though.

RISE LUMPEN-GANG

why do they not kick you off lmao

I quit for a couple months then go back on, or I get sanctioned for the same period.

in the early stages how often do they "search" you (or whatever the fuck the correct term is) for evidence that you've been looking for work?

We used to fill out a form for all out job searches, 7 for each respective week. Now they just want to look through my emails to "confirm" that i've been searching for jobs. I just apply through indeed and show them all my spam mail.

do you have to have applied to a certain number of jobs, per week say?

How will the forests sustain millions of people?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

you know, it always bothered me how close they put toilets to the bathtub. the toilet should be faced away from the tub or in my ideal sense in a seperate room.

Yeah I "apply" for a minimum of 7 a week. These applications can be done online and you don't even need a response.

we need some Lumpen Gang memes

THIS POST MADE BY
LITERAL GANG

suppose we have a rat chan as partner for alunya

Attached: IMG_20190613_223304.jpg (1125x747, 131.98K)

NAZBOL NEET LUMPENPROLE GANG!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!
NAZBOL NEET LUMPENPROLE GANG!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

Attached: index.png (1080x1267, 839.81K)

OP better be some sort of lumpen uberkommando with all his free time not working. But on the real, you guys should familiarize yourself with J. Camatte and the 'escape'/anthropomorphosis of capital.

Sounds like some porky's life.

I was for a bit and it was great but I felt bad for my family which was basically supporting me. If I could support myself with a flat or whatever with it I would.

Bumping this thread because this is an interesting issue, and I'm appalled at the number of people here saying you should remain an obedient wagecuck as much as you can, in an era when we obviously won't have any retirement pensions if we get older than 60, and when there is no immediate threat of production shortage. I think this workerist ideology is quite simply anti-communist. If you don't understand that communism is about the abolition of wage slavery, you are severely misguided.

I recall a Mark Fisher text saying that Mark E. Smith of The Fall fame started getting really creative with his poetry when he left his job at the Manchester docks and signed on the dole. If we don't give the opportunity to proles to do something else than being a surplus value generator for the bourgeoisie, we will live in an absolutely soulless world. Being on the dole doesn't mean you have to jack off to anime everyday. You also have the opportunity to help your local associations, tour with your music band for a month or so if you are good enough, or whatever. Only boring people don't know what to do with free time.

You'd think, but the state of being dependent on welfare does things to a man in the long term. Sad but it happens. It'd be different if we were literally demanding the dole with guns and shit, but we're not, it's a handout with strings attached and we're forced to pass through hoops to get anything, often being forced into specific legal restrictions because yay poor laws.

I get what you're saying, it should be the goal to abolish work as work and spend our time doing things we enjoy, but ultimately we need power over the production process, not just free shit, and I don't think a vote in the workers' council would be enough (because those sorts of things can be gamed, lots of people don't really have a choice but to follow a leader in a democratic vote).

(me)
Btw I have on the dole for five months and I've enjoyed it, but now I have only one month left to find a job before I get in deep trouble.
Fuck the labour market, it's an absolutely terrible way to allocate labour power and to find a way as a prole to sell it in order to earn enough money to just fucking survive, in this shitty world where we are all surrounded by an over-abundance of commodities at all times. The only reason I'm a Marxist is because I want to destroy this fucking thing.

(me)
Btw I have been on the dole for five months and I've enjoyed it, but now I have only one month left to find a job before I get in deep trouble.
Fuck the labour market, it's an absolutely terrible way to allocate labour power and to find a way as a prole to sell it in order to earn enough money just to fucking survive, in this world where we are moreover all surrounded by an over-abundance of commodities at all times. The only reason I'm a Marxist is because I want to destroy this fucking thing.

It is true, it can lead to depression, feeling worthless and so on. I've been there a couple of years ago. This time, I put my energy in music and doing various stuff with my friends, so I generally feel good at the end of the day.

My point isn't so much that being on the dole is terrific, but that we shouldn't be striving to get exploited and spend all our lives at work because communism is supposedly about being a big guy with a big hammer in a big factory while chanting the Internationale or whatever communism is in the tankie mind.

An immediate demand communists could make is a reduction of working hours while keeping the same wage. We could definitely have a four day working-week right now, or even less. Hell, Keynes predicted that we would work 15-20 hours per week by 1990, and he was pro-capitalism.
I really don't understand why no one, except a few socdem activists in the UK and the blogger Jehu, are talking about this. This was originally one of the main struggles of proletarian activists before WWII. It would have immediate positive effects on ecology (less people commuting everyday, etc.), unemployment rates (despite what bourgeois economists say), mental health, and mitigate the effects of ever-increasing automation. Yet for some reason, nobody cares. Why?

Anyway, you are right that we ultimately need control over the production process if we want to abolish wage slavery for good.

Attached: time-for-a-four_hours-day.jpg (640x1107 29.36 KB, 668.98K)

globalization

Certain jobs couldn't be effectively reduced in hours, because they require a limited skill set or constant attention over a regular period by someone who knows the situation… for example, a lot of teaching jobs probably need to be 30-40 hours. It just takes those people grumbling to get people to accept the idea that everyone else has to work 40 hours, or 60 hours, because they're spiteful like that and want to see their fellow man suffer.

It's funny because a good number of the quote-unquote "jobs" out there are literally just people whose job is to fuck over other people, and by the logic of the system this is actually productive. Seeing the grifters and scammers and bullshitters and thugs getting paid did more to get me to hate this system than anything else, because it just shows that we live in a society whose values are absolutely horrible from the start. That's what I'm working for, that's what the exploitation is propping up, a bunch of goddamn thugs. It'd be slightly better if it was just about Porky wanting a yacht and to sit on his fat ass, would still suck but the whole structure is just self-perpetuating misery.

Doesn't seem to be that much of a problem for Bloomberg, of all things.
bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-12/jeremy-corbyn-s-four-day-work-week-is-not-such-a-bad-idea
When France enacted a 35 hours workweek in the 1990s, it became the most productive nation of the world per hour worked, and capitalists love it when proles are productive.

That's possible, but I think it's only a minority of jobs, and you could just give them a fatter paycheck and more extended vacations or whatever. It isn't that much of a problem.
Yeah, crab mentality/negative solidarity is a big impediment in raising class-consciousness.
I had arguments with boomers in my family about "leeches on the welfare system" and shit like this, and what I say is "So what? Even if immigrants get a lot of taxpayer money as you say, everyone else should too. It costs billions to bomb Afghanistan and Syria. The amount spent on a few gypsy families to live in a hotel is nothing compared to that". Generally, they don't have anything to retort after that.
I feel for you. That said, I can't really blame drug dealers and their ilk, because they are literally living the capitalist myth of getting rich starting from nothing by becoming a ruthless entrepreneur. They play by the rules, even though it is on the black market, because they don't have their place on the regular one. They want to become something more than a prole living in precarious conditions like their parents, even if it means taking the risk of going to prison.
What I don't understand is the anarcho-radlibs defending their lumpen ideology because they are minorities or whatever. They might be, but they also seek to perpetuate M-C-M' at all costs. I can understand why they do it, but I still don't think it's a good thing to encourage that at all.
Working at a regular job would be appealing to thugs if it implied they would get a substantial amount of free time and a comfortable pay in return. More free time for everyone would also mean that older people in their community would have the opportunity to organize free activities so youngsters do something more interesting than hanging around on the block smoking dope and getting into stupid fights. It's something to mull about.

I'm not talking about drug dealers or gangsters, I'm talking about insurance company workers, the multitude of people whose entire job is to mark down large parts of the population as defectives, much of the guard labor which serves no function other than terrorizing the people, and various things which are not only legal but actively praised in the economy. At least drug dealers are providing some commodity of value to someone, however much I don't like it, and in my experience there is little difference between mafia racketeers and the government that enables them and operates corrupt political machines.

Teaching is actually a perfect example of a job which can be trivially parallelized.
There's no need to have the same teacher teaching different subjects, years, or classes. You do want each class to have a single teacher for each subject, but that only requires about 4-8 hours per week.

My main objection to this is that free will doesn't really exist. Making people starve to death for something they have no control over (their brain structure) seems cruel.
I think it's a capitalist myth that living on welfare is easy or enjoyable. It comes with a huge social stigma and constant harassment by the authorities. If people are choosing that life over a well paid job, then it's not unreasonable to say they have a mental illness.

I am from the US, on SSI. I plan on staying on it as long as I can. I believe that basic income will be implemented. Look up "basic income". If I am taken off SSI, my parents will probably still support me. So my parents might support me for a while before basic income is implemented, but I believe it will be implemented.

Where did all these Zig Forums pot shitposters come from?

Attached: Screen Shot 2019-05-12 at 11.59.26 PM.png (964x734, 229.89K)

Learn mmt nigga

Fuckind dumb. One TOW missile that our government gives out like candy to terrorists in syria costs 30k. The most you are going to get from the government in welfare is like 900 cash 200 and like 800 if you can get section 8. That's like less than 24k a year. So for less than the cost of a TOW missile that government sponsored terrorists fire will nilky at piles of rocks I could be living(and subsidizing local business)? No I don't feel guilty in the slightest of taking from the government. Also the effect is beyond meaningless on the budget whether I do it or not.

Imagine thinking the neoliberal ghouls save on welfare they wont spend on the military and tax breaks and subsidies for the wealthy.

Imagine saying this.

And still having the audacity to call people LARPers.

Attached: BootLicker.jpg (320x242, 26.27K)

Attached: mcconnell-obama-gty-jc-190709_hpEmbed_6x5_992.jpg (992x829, 99.46K)

be careful dude, depending on what country your in there could be a hard lifetime cap on unemployment benefits (such as in burgerland)

IMO, it's true that a committed socialist should try to work for a living (unless they're severely disabled or something ig), but not for "muh optics".
Socialism is a movement of the working class, for the sake of the emancipation of labor. That's just not congruent with welfare-leeching, optically speaking or not.

This still sounds like some woo woo shit. Especially considering the dudes who came up with the whole shabang were never laborers.