This is what real communism looks like. Direct communal democracy...

This is what real communism looks like. Direct communal democracy, workers own the means of production with cooperatives and the men and women are equal in a fucking muslim country.

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Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frantic
komun-academy.com/2018/11/22/the-main-principles-of-democratic-confederalism/
anfenglish.com/features/altun-socialism-cannot-be-built-with-the-tools-of-capitalism-23173
m.youtube.com/watch?v=aUX8yxAd8-I
m.youtube.com/watch?v=54MTPb9u7a8
vatanpartisi.org.tr/english/news/to-the-central-committee-of-the-workers-party-of-korea-25159
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Did you know they have cadre who aren't allowed to take romantic partners, also the PKK run on democratic centralism

Communism is an international, dedicated effort to overturn the existing relations of production. Anything less might amount to a useful short-term gain, but let's not exaggerate.

I call that commune-ism

sage

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democract confederalism*

democratic confederalism**

Every communist should support them.

Gitmo is not the fault of the Cubans.
USSR never let liberals put bases within their borders.

The Kurds don't have a country. I don't like this naive Rojava shilling, but I like categoric Rojava bashing even less. They're in an impossible geopolitical situation. PKK is fucking based, more based than 90% of European "left".

This. And while the US bases thing is pretty suspicious, it's really not fair to hold it against them as hard as a lot of people do. Pretending that they could just say "no" to the US is absurd. But they're not the be-all end-all leftwing exemplars.

Yes they did. Operation Frantic.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frantic

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The feminism is a huge red flag. But the rot is far deeper, if you actually look into their shitty theory you will find that they do not really have a problem with private property and markets. There might be some half-hearted pretense but they openly oppose economics and the class stuggle as central and are instead obsessed with "authority", the state the poor oppressed individual and so on. They are anarakiddies, which expalin why so many western liberals leftists are so fond of them.

Do you know where this place is and what most peoples religious and social views are on these matters in this area?
Do you really think class struggle is possible without the liberation of women, especially in cultures where they are treated almost as objects?

Could you provide some examples? I haven't had time to study their theory at all, and I'd be interested to see what they have to say about this.

real communism is a Zionist backed imperial project designed to undermine the political stability of one of israel's strongest neighbors?

yep, that's what real communism actually is now that I think about it

Yes, at least in the way you think. The proletariat assuming the dictatorship will liberate all of its members regardless of genitalia. Wreckers like you are kicked out by Marx for good reason, what failing to suppress feminism and idpol in general leads to can be observed in the absolute state of the western left.
Could you provide some examples?

USSR was idpol wreckers. Made by retarded incel gang.

Don't give a shit about Rojava either way but in reactionary and non-meme patriarchal places like the Middle East feminist discourse is unequivocally a good thing. Blow it out you're ass.

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Shut up radlib. Syria is a secular state with equal rights like western liberal democracies..

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The success of the YPG is about the most positive development in the Middle East imaginable, in a somewhat similar situation to Spain where there was a left-wing uprising in Barcelona that created radical experiments in worker management, local direct democracy, women's empowerment, etc – often anarchist or Marxist in inspiration.

In Syria, the attack from the fascist ISIS was met by the consolidation of a leftist government, which includes both anarchist and Marxist elements. The PKK meanwhile in Turkey has transformed to a model similar to the Zapatistas in Mexico where they give up military ops other than defensive ones with a politics built around Murray Bookchin's ideas of "libertarian municipalism" that would confederate across national borders with big ecological and feminist elements to this.

In Rojava they're trying to put some of these ideas into practice such as direct democratic assemblies with women's and youth caucasus, and municipalities where official posts are divided between Kurds, Arabs and Assyrians (with at least one of the three being a woman). They say they want this to become a democratic model for the region, more democratic than Western "liberal democracy." These forces also rescued the Yazidis from genocide by ISIS.

Haters and losers then try to condemn Rojava because of U.S. military presence while completely ignoring the comparative Russian support as well as official statements from the Syrian Arab Republic affirming support for the YPG, and coordination between YPG forces and the Syrian Arab Army. This manicheanism where Russia is unambigously the main ally of the Syrian Arab Army while Kurdish autonomy is irreperably associated with U.S. designs is absurd, as should be obvious to anyone who has paid a minute worth's of attention.

Nobody doubts the U.S. aspires to wield Kurdish autonomy in such a fashion. But the problem is discussing this on the level of intentions alone without investigation of whether they are actually reflective of the conditions on the ground. The only standard is the tactical military support by U.S. forces while Russian military support is ignored. Russia in any case would prefer a peaceful federal arrangement pursued through constitutional means to ally concerns from Damascus that Kurdish autonomy done unilaterally would supersede their constitution.

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Also, the YPG shares with the Syrian Arab Republic an existential opposition to the Turkish forces and Salafist-jihadist forces backed by reactionary forces in the Gulf which violate Syrian sovereignty

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Good post, comrade.

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no democratic centralism.

Airbases are not the fault of the kurds.

False:

what so every actually existing socialist movement is a red flag?

no they are not. They have cadre that do not take sexual partners and they have set up a bicameral state with very strong unions and coucils. The key resources are "nationalised" which they call "socialised".

It is literally like the early soviet union.

good post

also Assad pays for lots of their shit still. Why would he do this if he thought they were out to get him?

your mistake is thinking somebody who said some bad stuff one time can't have good ideas also, your other mistake is thinking that bookchin is soul inspiration for all of Ocalan, the PKK, or the other parties involved in the Kurdish struggle. In fact, most of these people are seasoned Leninists, Maoists, Hoxists, only the PKK became democratic conderalist, and the the PKK still run on democratic centralism, they are a leninist party that has embrace some of the ecological and economic ideas of bookchin, they revised thier former leninism as mao revised the importanance of the cultural revolution.

The area is extremely reactionary in its attitudes towards women and the people who were fighting that revolution and have been for years saw it was an obstacle and so focussed on that, obviously, this has worked extremely well for them, and for the women on the ground under Kurdish rule

Also its funny you take what is clear a joke at an academic get together as his support for libertarian capitalism over communism or something

I remember when Lenin called Marxism "economic reductionism" and the bBolsheviks let the German empire build bases in its region while having the support of business owners and not being in a civil war with them.

You mean the liberals who call THE leninist party totalitarian?

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no they let the US empire build bases in its reason.

Why? And fuck that, Commies having making government sanctioned Incels.

Why does the PKK have so much control if the leninist party is so much better?

if your answer is: because the Americans back them, you're gonna have to prove that from before the presence of bases

because they dedicate their lives to the revolution.

hardly very anarchist is it

It's a lot easier to come to power if you are not going to expropriate. The socialist party in france was in power too.

It should be state policy for all tbh

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National liberation, reminder Stalin supported the Emir of Afghanistan against the Brits

They already have expropriated large amounts. Do you actually know anything about the situation between leftypol memes?

also, again, even Lenin didn't exproriate absolutely everything in the beggining and they were in a comparatively much stronger position

Nope, Democratic Confederalism it's the "ideology" in Rojava.

komun-academy.com/2018/11/22/the-main-principles-of-democratic-confederalism/

Now that I've stanned for Rojava I'll just say that you're probably better off reading Stalin than Bookchin's mumbo jumbo. But that being said, we should show some respect.

nowhere does this mention how this actually translates to on the ground, that is, how the principle of democratic confederalism is applied to the actual system, who set it up, how and why. There very much is a bicamaral state, although as they set up both chambers and all parties in those chambers are sympathetic, and they set up a robust system of councils and unions, the administrative branch of "the state" is answerable to the unions etc and not the other way round. the other branch of government is the "state" part which deals with foreign affairs .

They are in the midst of a revolution, these principles apply where they can be applied and are not where they are not.

The PKK and associated leninist parties were fighting a protracted peoples war, they (the PKK) then adopted a stronger element of cultural revolution, ecology, taking the emphasis off national expropriation and putting it on regional self management

and as for the state policy for all part, they don't need to do something so draconian and polarising (and nonsensical given they need to reproduce a population and the dedication requires celibacy) many volunteer to do so as they believe that strongly in the revolution. Do you really think those people, basically commie monks, are really not hip to the US influence in the region they are trying to liberate?

My impression (which doesn't count for much) is that the YPG opted for U.S. help to break the ISIS siege of Kobani and also to help during rescue ops for the stranded Yazidis on Mount Sinjar. If that didn't happen the Yazidis would have been wiped out. The YPG also wants to keep U.S. garrisons around because the primary threat has always been Turkey, and since the U.S. and Turkey are NATO allies that basically blocks Turkey from advancing very far, particularly in the big northeast triangle which is Syria's breadbasket and contains much of its oil. U.S. meanwhile wants to use this as an avenue of influence – the Kurds being the only remaining vehicle for this as U.S. influence dwindles in the "Shia crescent."

But Kobani is also politically different from Iraqi Kurdistan, which is a close U.S. ally. The KDP in Iraqi Kurdistan, which is traditionally linked with the U.S., is basically a right-wing feudal party controlled by the Barzani clan.

Anyways like I was saying it's easy to critique them but I'm eating tendies behind my computer and I'm not in a tough spot in Northern Syria.

As did the other groups under the umbrella of the KCK which were formed after Ocalan was captured. Such as PJAK in Iran, PCDK in Iraq, and the PYD in Syria.
Here is an interview of a KCK executive member where he talks about the change in paradigm:
anfenglish.com/features/altun-socialism-cannot-be-built-with-the-tools-of-capitalism-23173
So does the ruling coalition in Ethiopia made up of former Maoists and Hoxhaists which is hardly Leninist at all since 1991.

Cringe

This is what communists should strive for but the old guard in communist parties still cling on the old marxist-leninist dogma and are nostalgic about the Soviet dystopia. Theory and praxis has to evolve as we learn more or communism will wither away as a failed social experiment that people will only read about in history books.

sage
sage

m.youtube.com/watch?v=aUX8yxAd8-I

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This is almost comically hypocritical and assuming of bad faith act. They don't even have national development set up and you're blaming them for not having literal full stage communism set up already, something that only the failed groups have ever attempted to do, and one that frequently is leveled at socialist states.
Do you go from here to suck off China's SAR's in another thread too?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=54MTPb9u7a8

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You do realize that the USSR interned USAF pilots as POWs if they landed on the East coast from bombing Japan right? They were being pragmatic.

Also, they were just sharing already existing Soviet bases

Yikes, another anarkiddie falls for imperialist propaganda

Yeah, this.

They actually have better relations with Assad than they do with actual US allies.

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vatanpartisi.org.tr/english/news/to-the-central-committee-of-the-workers-party-of-korea-25159

On the other hand, Rojava aren't "being pragmatic" because…?

What's this? Someone who knows what they're talking about?

I think there is a difference between accepting a land lease as a power like Russia when they are fighting the most extreme form of fascism and having US bases in the area as non-state super small Kurdish entity in a country that US wants to balkanise while having literal CIA conducting your missions.

NAZKEM GANG RISE-UP

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it's a meme about how he hates everyone

They're in even less a position to say "no" to the US than the USSR was.
Do you think that the US just lets people say no to accepting their "help", especially when they're a small enough group to be eradicated in war as a footnote?

You have to give it to the kurds that they are great at propaganda. These pictures of young women holding guns are how they managed to become so popular in the west. all they have to do is wear red stars and you are caught in the spectacle. Even the writers from the state department behind the latest call of duty have rojava "revolutionaries" as protagonists valiantly fighting with the US army for freedom, democracy and gender equality. Fuck rojava.

Syria/Kurds/YPG/SDF were literally fighting for their lives. They were threatened total annihilation from ISIS, Turkey, and Turkey-backed Islamist militias. Their choices were get material help from the US or disappear. Now they're in talks with Damascus and getting help against Turkey, a US ally from the SAA (despite Erdogan saying that he'd destroy YPG/PKK, take the land then give it back to Syria). Rojava is performing realpolitik and it is very impressive to watch.

I think some anarkiddies masturbate to some of those women.

More revolutionary that you will ever be.

still better than an american puppet

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You being an actual american isn't really better tbqh

lol

ahahahaha nigga do you even world at war?

you must be a little baby zoomer how cute

ahaha

United Offensive was the last tolerable CoD

It was horrible. Black Ops was best since COD1.

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this isn't unique to communism

as if there is any real production going on

equality is a spook
it also helps when you're doing in the most secular muslim countries that have bigger problems than policing what people in the hills wear on their head

nah

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That doesn't mean anything. Al-Qaeda is also considered a terrorist group by most of the world and yet was tacitly supported by the US in Syria.

Hell, there was one time when the US bombed a Syrian Army position to give ISIS an advantage in a battle.

Yet it has an US military presence, which undoubtedly provides support and intelligence to US action against Syria.

This af

tbh my only problem with rojava is the kurd part. other than the outrageous land claims and the quasi ethno-state dream they always ignore their best interest and alienate themselves from the state they live in for muh kurdistan which leads to their oppression and that's evident historically from saladin to al assad.
the fact that the current leaders in that region are extremely opportunistic is a helping factor considering kurds make up an important proportion of that region and they would definitely want them to their side.

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Only Iraqi Kurds have those problems though

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Syrian and even Turkish Kurds have repeatedly emphasized that they aren't separatists, what they want is federalism. Sayjng Rojava is Kurd dominated is like saying Lebanon is Maronite dominated, it's not true and it makes you look prejudiced as hell. Also reminded Muammar Qaddafi himself argued that Kurdish people had the right to independence should they choose so as a community, he saw no inherent conflict between Pan Arabism and the Kurdish cause.

Somebody needs to make a pasta with some basic information about Rojava to post at the start of every thread. That way retarded tankies won’t be able to show up and shit up the place with their woefully uninformed posts. Here are a few basic facts to get started…

If I missed anything then please feel free to add it.

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It boggles my fucking mind how people will criticize Apo and the PKK/PYD for not being economically left enough, but then support Assad even though his policies were considerably further to the right of Apo’s before the war.

id need a source on that, are they really not allowed to fuck?

yes but also the kurds are very tankie, anarchists "claiming" them is part of the problem because autist sectarians just like shitting on other ideologies

its in "Revolution in Rojava: Democratic Autonomy and Womans Liberation in Syrian Kurdistan" Mind its not all of them but the core of the cadre.

Well it does mean something, even though yes you are correct the US has allied with many "terrorist" groups, starting many in many cases and being the major proponent in many others. But there is US puppet levels such as the Contras or the Mujihadeen in Afghanistan etc etc, the way you talk it is as if you think the Kurds are group on level with these. Evidently, they are not, but at the same time they have been classes as terrorists by most western nations, do you think they really don't understand American imperialism given this fact?

Yes the US military are scumbags and there was American and Saudi money in ISIS.

So given that the Kurd also fought against ISIS, does that then mean the Kurds were fighting not only theocratic imperialism but also capitalist imperialism, both at the same time? Fighting the Saudis, the US and their ISIS puppets all at the same time?