Oh my God! He actually did! Gorby actually did it the USSR has collapsed! Comrades what the fuck is going on!!?? My dad hasnt come out from his room and isnt himself. Fucking Thatcher and Regan, I can imagine their frosty fake smiles now. Not to mention CNN! There is no fucking way that NATO would likewise dissolve, Berlin wall shenanigans and all! They would expand anyway. Mark my words! Solidarity with our comrades!
Who could have possibly predicted that the proles had more loyalty to their nationality or ethnic group than they did to their class, and that putting them all in the same country was a stupid idea from the beginning, and this led to them declaring independence because they don’t like being ruled by foreigners. Fucking incomprehensible.
Back to /fascist/
1. The proles wanted to keep the union the party bosses and ambitious opportunists like Yeltsin and Gorbachev didn't 2. They still do in most former SSRs 3. The union functioned well despite its multicultural basis, which must be incomprehensible to you if your entire worldview is based on being opposed to immigration because some YouTube pundit or Zig Forumsack told you to
If Gorbachev dies this week this post gets on the bannerif dubs, it show that China is in socialism by 2050
yes it was definitely the average Soviet who was responsible for dissolving the Union, not a small group of politicians. that's why the majority of Soviets wished to preserve the USSR (as seen in the 1991 referendum and sentiment since then) - makes total sense! also, the country wasn't "ruled by foreigners" you fucking smoothbrain. most of the CPSU was made up of Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Balts, not to mention every republics's respective party was comprised of it's dominant ethnic groups i.e. Uzbek SSR was run by Uzbeks, the Latvian SSR by Latvians, and the RSFSR by Russians. there was of course mixing, but the majority was made up of the people of the country, not "foreigners".
This is something I've actually been wondering about, did the USSR need an attempt to re-democratize the country in order to combat the effects of the managerial proto-class developing that had an obvious basic desire to revert to individualist capitalism?
If the soviet people were even a fraction as revolutionary as hey were in the civil war or the great patriotic war they would have joined the coup, executed yeltsin and implemented a new Red Terror. It had the support of pretty much every socilist nation, even Dengist China but what they did instead was rally around yeltsin for muh freedumbs because they all wanted to be middle-clas westerners because giving them concession with perestroika/glasnost did pacify them but want them even more shitty rock music, bananas and jeans.
This is why you don't do liberalism.
The coup was just as demoralised/in a state of confusion as the people.
State propaganda constantly flip flopping does that to you, today Russians for the most part have their brain thoroughly fried by this shit. Alexander Yakovlev, Gorby's propaganda chief, confessed he engineered glastnost to relentlessly shit on marxism and entire legacy of SU and convince people capitalism is good, actually. Later he wrote a foreword to the Russian edition of Black Book of Communism decrying bolsheviks ruining glorious Russian Empire and it's "diverse traditional class system". Actual quote from the motherfucker
He got to own state TV after union fell so of of course he loves it. Tsarist larp is extra ironic since he's from a fucking peasant family.
Is it really that powerful, especially since it was just a couple of years? Could it explain why westerners suck so much, as the media here is effectively just as much controlled by the elites?
His wiki says he wrote against nationalism for which he was sent to canada where he became friends with fucking trudeau. He was very much a liberal crying about muh freedumbs and if gorby was not an idiot/traitor he would never have come to power.
Maybe they were kulaks.
My understanding is that because of the tight information control soviet people weren't prepared to deal with a torrent of neoliberal bullshit once the floodgates opened.
Pretty much why I think state censorship in socialist states is a really bad idea, and should educate people to deal with bourg propaganda head on. People should constantly deal with this shit to stay class conscious so party can't quetly sneak in neolib bullshit.
I think this is how opportunists/careerists need to be dealt with too, just telling people to be nice and purging by hand is not going to work in the long term, you need to make everyone able to identify those who have dark triad tendencies so society can cut out the cancer.
Independent Kosovo is a result of NATO, Kosovo je Srbija
Boris Yeltsin Independent 45,552,041 58.6% Nikolai Ryzhkov Communist Party 13,395,335 17.2%
When did the floodgates open according to you ?
The russian people are not voting to go back.
wtf are you trying to say ?
They literally did in 1996 after they realised what western 'freedom' was like and burgerstan rigged the election on a massive scale to stop the Communists winning. The russians have by now long realised they live in an authoritarian oligarchy like the rest of the west and their votes don't matter like they were promised they would.
To be even more precise, that small group of politicians did not extend to the leaders of most the republics, who only opted for nationalism when Yeltsin started taking over the Soviet state. Of course there were the exception of the Baltic republics and Georgia.
In 1987 when glasnost started
haha yeah, because surely the Russian state - and by extent the global bourgeoisie - would just let socialist countries come about through the ballot box. how dumb are you to think the capitalists would let an ideology which seeks to take away their wealth and power take over, as if they actually care about what people want or "vote for" - capitalism isn't a democracy, and change can only come about by completely uprooting the system, not working within it's constraints. as for what the Russians actually think, you only need to look at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum which shows that the absolute majority of Soviets wished to preserve the USSR, along with the 1993 protests, and the fact that most Russians consider Yeltsin and Gorbachev the absolute worst leaders in their history, while popularity for Stalin, Brezhnev, and Lenin has been at it's peak in recent years. not only this, but the Soviet era in general is seen as very nostalgiac, and you don't need to look far in Russia for Soviet themed shops, hotels, and memorabilia. there is very clear pro-Soviet sentiment among not only the Russians, so to suggest that them not "voting to go back" - as if that's even an option - is foolish, especially considering the many attempts they have made (once again, see 1993). also those election stats mean shit considering they were literally rigged. this isn't even up for debate, it's objective fact and like i've already pointed people in Russia hate Yeltsin and if you look at his actual approval ratings (along with Gorbachev's) they are like ~1-5%. you don't see people celebrating him or maintaining any monuments built in his name, unlike for figures such as Lenin and Stalin.
1991 election was not rigged in any way. In 1996, the election itself was legitimate, it was the news coverage that was rigged.
Your arguments contradict nothing. Of course the bourgeoisie would fight for its power, but that's irrelevant. The point is not whether voting would be enough, but whether it reflects the people's wishes. And it does. In 91, only a minority was willing to vote for Ryzhkov, when nothing stopped them, and a majority wanted to try Yeltsin. And ever since then, the ones voting to go back remain a minority. The referendum to preserve the union didn't mention the economic system. The 93 protests were the high water mark of the discontent, but they don't show a majority either, especially compared to the 93 referendum. The popularity of past leaders show nationalist concerns much more than socialist ones, as shown by the high popularity of Putin. But futhermore, being nostalgic, or buying memorabilia (obviously!), does not equate wanting to go back.
Now sure, capitalist propaganda is largely to blame. But regardless of the reason, russians unironically think Soviet Russia is not worth ressuscitating.
Yeltsin put himself as anti-soviet, but he never said much about his economic policies. I mean I probably would be for Yeltstin since he more or less promised getting rid of corrupt bureaucracy. In 1996 election Yeltsin was obviously losing, until, like a miracle :^), he started to rapidly gain votes out of thin air while being hated by everyone. Too bad there were various polls taken which showed the majority wanted to preserve socialism. Honestly Putin popularity is as legitimate as every soviet leader was. I'm pretty sure most people miss things like certain employment and other socialist policies. I don't think people want to go back (because of various geopolitical reasons). I think people didn't want to let go.
Not worth bringing the union back as it was, so it can fall over again, but worth going back to building socialism. Current system is shit and everyone except petty booj in Moscow suffers under it.
the referendum was to preserve the Union. to the Soviet citizen, this meant keeping things generally how they were - it certainly wasn't asking if they wanted to split the country up and go full free market shock therapy. the popularity of Soviet leaders and by extent the USSR is not because of "nationalism" or Russians wanting to be le strong empire again. this is the most common argument i see whenever sentiment towards the USSR comes up, and while i don't doubt it plays a factor, polls still show most people (usually older) specifically call for bringing back the socialist system. furthermore, most Russian nationalists are generally anti-communist and side with the status quo - not to mention their love for the Russian Empire and orthodoxy shilling.
Why don't they vote for socialist parties if they want socialism ? Why did they vote for the anti-soviet candidate if they wanted to preserve the system ?
well they did, but Yeltsin literally had the military storm the parliament.
CPRF is schizophrenic and all other left parties are liberal shills, any party with a real socialist program is made illegal as "extremist".
Yeltsin never outright called for the dissolution of the USSR at first, rather for reforming the country and making Gorbachev step down. lots of the votes for him were due to the instability of the 90s, when many people feared an outright collapse of the Russian into civil war - many of those voters were the same who voted for preserving the USSR in the 1991 referendum. it's also worth mentioning the december referndum in 93 was definetly rigged, and as things didn't become better popularity for Yeltsin is basically nonexistent. they do? some don't vote because they think the current Russian state is the only viable option right now, and the lack of any real communist party for them to get behind, not to mention a general lack of spirit of enthusiasm for mass change. lots of pro-Soviet boomers and stuff vote for Putin. also i already said voting doesn't mean shit since you can't achieve socialism through the constraints of the very system it wishes to tear down. revolution is, and has always been, the only way socialism has come about (excluding countries like the Baltics and Poland having communist parties come to power post-WWII with support from the USSR), and while there a lot of people who would be more than happy to revolt, the situation in Russia is not dire enough for outright revolution. not everyone is content and life isn't as good as, say the 1960s-70s, but it's not Tsar tier. some people do protest, or show open support for communism, but not everyone feels the need to storm the duma anytime soon (but with increasing populartity of the USSR and the way the world his neading in the coming decade, who knows?)