Is it because they know there’s no justification for how tucking awful this country actually is? That its the richest country on Earth and yet many Americans are dying of opioids, are snapping and killing their classmates, are homeless on the streets?
Americans have a severe victim complex, their government goes all around the world sewing chaos, and Americans take pity on themselves and fail to understand why they’re utterly loathed. No other country has had this particular pathology, from what I’ve seen. Many countries have always manufactured reasons for war, but only Americans demand sympathy from the world they rule. Not tribute, not glory, sympathy.
Because Americans know there is no excuse, no justification, their country is evil and furthermore doesn’t care about them, and the only thing that Americans can do is pity themselves and pity their country. Sad.
I unironically believe most americans suffer from collective schizophrenia. Even those critical of certain excesses of american capitalism and imperialism still uphold americanism and their whole worldview is colored by it. And it seems that one of the few ways out of the delusion is to instead become rabidly anti-american which isn't a healthy thought process either.
Lincoln Brooks
Definitely difficult not to be anti-American with the amount of pro-American propaganda being shoved down our throats.
I should add, this isn't just on the topic of capitalism or imperialism. Even discussing food, music, history, psychology, literature etc. with americans is almost always an unbearable experience, aswell as with non-americans who've taken the kool-aid. Americanism extends far beyond the borders of the USA. Check your friends for American thinking patterns and try rooting them out.
Anthony Richardson
Zig Forums has always had DPRK supporters but I'd say that over the last 2 years or so a lot of anarcho-libs with orientalist hateboners for the DPRK and China left or got purged so now we can have actual discussion about it
Basically that there’s a deep, gibbering insanity at the core of American culture that leaves most Americans in a 24/7 cognitive dissonance where they live in the world’s greatest and most powerful country, but also they’re victims, and everyone should do what they say, but also they secretly want to do what we say anyway, and we must liberate people, but by killing them.
The conditions in the US are ripe for the creation of a highly reactionary society for a number of reasons, and I think Gramsci’s theories offer an excellent lens to examine it. First off, we need to understand that class struggle isn’t nearly as simple as it appears in some of Marx’s writings, and he acknowledges this in other works like the 18th Brumaire. Suffice to say that class relations are (usually) not a simple dictatorship based on brute force or even ideology and false consciousness. The rule of the bourgeoisie obviously requires a degree of acquiescence on the part of the workers, and this can’t rest solely on intimidation and propaganda. It requires that on some level the material interests of the workers be protected by the bourgeois order. This hegemonic arrangement of course doesn’t just happen, it is a product of concessions won through class struggle (strikes, unions, social democracy, etc.) resulting in the emergence of a labour aristocrat/petty bourgeoise middle class. This middle class then internalizes bourgeois ideology, since under the hegemonic order they are able to live relatively prosperous lives, and thus are able to be convinced that their interests are tied to the existing order. The US is an excellent example, and probably the most successful case of bourgeois hegemony. The labour struggles of the 19th and early 20th centuries eventually culminated in the postwar equilibrium under which workers were largely incorporated into bourgeois hegemony (thanks in large part to imperialism and the postwar boom), and this was done on a scale never before seen, to the point where the majority of white workers were included in this middle class. However capitalism is inherently unstable, and all sorts of events can destabilize the precarious balance of power that produces a particular hegemony. The middle class is especially vulnerable to shifts in the hegemonic order, since unlike the big bourgeoisie they lack the wealth to ensure economic security, and unlike the lower echelons of the working class they actually have something to lose. When the hegemony shifts in a way that effectively ejects the middle class from its position, their discontent inevitably manifests itself as a form of right wing populism, and under proper conditions can develop into Fascism. It manifests itself in this way because of the internalization of bourgeois ideology by the middle class. When the order which had previously secured their position begins to collapse, it’s far easier for them to blame some sinister other (Jews, bankers, liberals, immigrants, etc) rather than reject their entire previously established worldview. It’s not hard to see why somebody who had secured a prosperous existence under capitalism would blame something other than capitalism once that existence is threatened. The US today is undergoing this process, with the white working class being ejected from their previously secure and prosperous position within US bourgeois hegemony. The result is that their anger lashes out in multiple directions: at certain leaders they believe responsible for the loss of their position (establishment politicians in both parties), against immigrants and minorities (who they see as displacing them from their position), and against the left, who they have been taught to hate since birth. The mass basis of fascism in the US won’t be those retards in Charlottesville, it will be Fox News grandpas who small business or are skilled workers.
Daniel Lopez
So schizophrenia is an inherently American condition? Freedom ain't free; the tree of liberty gotta be refreshed time to time with the blood of patriots.
Yeah my boo why is there even a cyclical.
Tyler Bennett
Yeah why would a socialist board have a cyclical about one of the only socialist states left in the world.
Jason Campbell
I doubt it’ll be some decrepit old fucks who are diabetic and senile anyway, it’ll probably be Gen Z that are among the first true American fascists. I think Gen Z will ultimately be split into a fascist portion mostly comprised of white zoomers and genuine leftists made up of non-white zoomers and their white allies.
Brayden Morales
Considering the sort of poison it attracts I genuinely do not know.
Kayden Thomas
What?
Benjamin Roberts
...
Dylan Green
While they may not be "prospering hard", they certainly are making economic progress, and everything else in that post seems good to me.
Julian Ross
All they had to do was surrender any pretension to building a socialist state and adopt market reforms.
Chase Stewart
You sound like a schizo yourself. What the fuck is an "American thinking pattern?" You're out of your mind dude.
Kayden Bennett
gtfo CIA.
Eli Sullivan
That’s quite possible, but what I was getting at was that American Fascism won’t look much like Nazism. It will likely look just like mainstream American conservatism stripped of its liberal aspects, and it will emerge from the ranks of the downwardly mobile former middle class.
I don't particulary hate Americans, I am not racist and I don't hate racemixed people but the Amerimutt and "Freedom ain't Free" memes are hilarious and anyone who says otherwhise is an hypocrite, don't be so thin skinned Americant's, you are in an imageboard who laughs at dysphoric/trans people, autistic people, crippled people and people with Down Syndrome constantly, don't be so God-damn thin skinned.
John Brooks
It's the English as a world language, US domination in culture and media and populous with no real experience in war in the home front or rabid nationalism destroying their homes. Culturally and polically US is basically a house made of one way mirrors. When Americans look outside they only see themselves, but everybody can see them from the outside. American can never relate to other countries being bombed, because of geography they have always been the ones bombing and invading without the other guy having really any ability to reduce American cities to rubble in return. At least Europeans have the WW1 and WW2 to look as a examples as to why war and jingoism is bad.
Because Americans live in a anglosphere bubble of their own perceptions and media monopolies they can never really compare their own situation to other countries and just accept that rest of the world is comparative to America or worse.
If we assume that DPRK is really a hell on earth for the sake of argument. What justification US has to act as the judge, jury and executioner of the world and destoy countries that they don't like with whatever means they see fit? Especially when US intervention has rarely left the people in a better condition or made the governments more "progressive" or "democratic". One doesn't have to agree whit countries who stand against US, but why the fuck does it always have been silent acceptance or outright cheering when US does another 20 min adventure in some third world country.
Absolutely amazing post another funny picture about how Liberals suck.
Zachary Sanders
Most Americans simply have no critical understanding of how bad their state is due to a lifetime of propaganda.
Justin Ward
On, yeah, I think everyone that looks into this shit realizes American fascism won’t be Naziism.
Rn I think it’s split between being intersectional fascism vs white nationalist fascism, currently it seems like it’ll be the latter, but prior to the Trump admin it seemed like it’d be the former.
Carter Robinson
My dad unironically said “Freedom isn’t free” when we got into an argument about the pointlessness and evil behind America’s Middle East campaign. Had no response when I brought up the PATRIOT Act tho
Adam Smith
Hating America is good
Parker Lopez
If you don't hate the US, you're either not a leftist, or don't fucking shit about US.
Austin Ward
don't know*
Alexander Campbell
I didn't say anything about DPRK being bad or good, just that one doesn't have to be "pro-DPRK" to be agains't of US ravaging third world countries.
Just as side note DPRK is based when you take account on what they have to work with and every pro-yankee can try swallowing their own feet and roll into the nearest body of water.
Noah Gray
I think white nationalism is actually a non starter in the US. It would be effectively impossible to impose any kind of ethnic cleansing or apartheid on American minorities without the wholesale collapse of the country. Keep in mind that non whites make up nearly half the US population. You also have to remember that most mainstream boomer conservatives in the US at least feel the need to reject explicit racism, and this is a pretty strong tendency even among certain elements of the far right in the US like the Tea Party. I think that an American fascist state would be extremely racist in practice, but racial oppression and segregation wouldn’t be the law.
Ayden Ortiz
How do you see American fascism playing out then?
Because I’ve honestly thought the same, the current US state is more or less oppressing all non-whites in various ways (police brutality and prisons for blacks and Hispanics, plus concentration camps for migrants. Ramping up orientalist propaganda for the new Cold War against China. The genocidal war on Islam in the Middle East. The horrific conditions on the reservations.), so if it’s fascist strain was explicitly white nationalist they’d see a genuine uprising on their hands.
Benjamin Smith
A very common word among third worldists and affiliated ideologies. One of the most obvious signs of their lack of any exposure towards actual communist theory.
Colton Foster
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Michael Anderson
I can tell you see nations and not class as the primary contradiction just from the few sentences I've seen you type. Consider reading Marx and getting into communism.
Well it will definitely emerge from the broad umbrella of the populist right in the US. The problem is that this group includes everybody from QAnon people to Alex Jones types to Tea Party people to Neo Nazis, and these groups all overlap to varying degrees. Whatever emerges from this proto-fascist stew will have to be able to appeal to the displaced white middle class, and will likely need to have some appeal even beyond this group. I think the most likely result would be something that is effectively fascist, but still retains a nominal commitment to established American values, which means it would likely maintain certain liberal/enlightenment principles or at the very least rhetoric. This would probably mean COINTELPRO style repression of leftist and liberal movements styled as “anti-terror” campaigns, “elections” which are even more pointless and rigged than the ones they have now, but it’s aesthetics and rhetoric would be very similar to what the American right has been talking about since Bush or even Reagan. All it really needs in order to qualify as fascism is to sweep away bourgeois democracy and whatever limits liberalism places on state power, and use then systematically repress left opposition.
Cameron Williams
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Landon Gutierrez
There's nothing sterile or boring about refusing to talk like a fucking papist. Capital isn't the Devil, it's a necessary element, just as necessary as it's destruction. You can keep your preachy writing style if you wish though the rest of us will continue to roll our eyes at it.
Ethan Williams
This isn't really an argument, at best it's an appeal to emotion as opposed to a view based on necessity.
Jaxson Bell
America sucks, look at what its foreign policy did fo the world! America sucks so much that everything is America’s fault! America is the sucking black hole of Earth!
Jason Wright
Like I said, you people act like someone’s ramming a dick up your asshole the second people talk bluntly about this piece of shit country.
Americans are worthless, mindless, and fucking degenerate
Nathaniel Barnes
it'll evolve into accepting brown people like the integralists or evolve into a program of assigning different states as specific racial homelands or something
Jeremiah Nguyen
They don't want to, either.
Sebastian Nguyen
Most Americans are overworked, tired, and disillusioned. They don’t support their state but they feel powerless to do anything. But they will fight back because they are proletarians. As the US economy collapses and the bourgeoisie reinstitutes the draft, the American working class WILL fight back the likes that hasn’t been seen since the Great Depression, and the next crisis will make that pale in comparison. Anyone hating on the American proletariat is fundamentally nationalist, reactionary, and an enemy of Marxism
Leo Long
when we got redpilled by the DPRK thread
Brandon Garcia
Lenin said that the workers must be told the truth
William Moore
Most Americans would vote in some soft form of social-democracy, if such an option were politically available to them, but that's about it. Communists used to know how to break people out of jail and weren't afraid to use violence against the state. It takes decades to re-learn these skills, it will be some time.
All Russians wanted was an end to war and some bread. You can’t expect the American proletariat to be fully revolutionary at this very moment, that consciousness develops in the course of struggle
Luis Anderson
of course, that will (may) come in time
Kevin Cook
It's not easy to get out of it, man. I still try to watch myself for the remnants of my broken upbringing in this insane country.
Comments for a photo of a father and his daughter drowning at the border
Fuck Americans, they’re truly less than human, they’re fucking monsters, this entire country deserves to burn and half the population deserves the fucking bullet. I truly hope WW3 breaks out and America becomes a smoldering heap of nuclear waste. Fuck these savages.
Why are you talking about the USA? Why aren't you talking about others.
Julian Jackson
The answer is in the quote, Americans are uniquely retarded. I can tell you're American from this response.
Dominic Martin
I don't think it's unique.
Oliver Long
Even American leftists do it, if you suggest that America can't win a certain war they'll start shitting and farting over it.
Nicholas Stewart
Not to mention the pathology I was speaking about was the one in which Americans view themselves and their country as victims of…people not liking America
It’s pathetic, and I can’t think of any other empire that’s historically been so desperate for approval and so delusional in terms of goals and justifications
Of course the military strategists and the bourgeois are cold psychopaths that see reality clearly and are happy to burn this world, but the American people themselves are nutjobs with a victim complex that simultaneously want to bomb N.K and kill millions of people (as per a new poll) but would also lose their shit if they were told that’s wrong.
Aiden Morales
Yeah they're schizos being driven by Satan essentially. How do I know this? It seems at every turn this is some kind of problem when they could just try to do the right thing and advance society with warmth, love, compassion, and logic.
Josiah Ortiz
Fascism doesn't have to be racial or of a ethno-nationalist character. I think America is already fascist in many ways, people just don't want to make the leap because you don't have a cartoon stereotype of Nazis in the government. Yet if you looked at American society critically, from the media to how Americans are largely still pro-war, despite the past atrocities, then you can make a solid case for fascism.
I repeat, fascism is different in every country. Stop looking for a cartoon representation of fascism.
Julian Long
Yes, without hesitation I would fucking MURDER all Americans if given the opportunity. You made me burst out in laughter with "genuine leftist" in America. The same genuine "leftists" who spouted "neither washington nor moscow" AND NOW REPEATING "neither Beijing nor Washington" "Neithing Syria nor US" "Neither Venezuela nor US".
Fuck the American """""""""""""""""""""""left"""""""""""""""""""""""", what a damn joke.
Elijah Russell
Made the mistake of arguing with another libertarian today, my God do these people deserve the fucking bullet. Absolutely nobody else is as intellectually dishonest, morally repugnant, or ignorant as these fucking rats.
Honestly, if mankind cannot reject capitalism then mankind truly deserves its extinction, fuck this species and fuck every last slackjawed corporate cock-sucking American.
Repost
Liam Butler
yeah but that doesn't sound good in english. say "U.S.American."
Landon Turner
Honestly, I do think it's worth saying that America isn't this incomprehensible evil, just about every awful thing about it is explicitly to keep the international capitalist system running. There are many, many inefficiencies, but it explicitly exists as it does to be the imperialist arm of global capital. It's like when people say that Israel can simply disarm itself and stop the atrocities - it can't because its reason for existing is to be a giant military base, its nature is fundamentally fascistic. This is not a defense of America, of course, it is disgusting and the end of the capitalist system it upholds needs to come as soon as possible, but you have to comprehend why it is that America is the way it is before you can stop it.
Brayden Stewart
This. There are very clear reasons why America is the way it is, and Marxism offers he framework for uncovering this reasons. It’s not the bizarre cruelty and backwardness of America that makes it the seat of global capitalism. It’s Americas position as the seat of global capitalism that renders its people and culture backwards and bizarrely cruel.
Ryan White
Europe acted just like America does now pre-WW1.
Connor Taylor
This is madness, dude. You've gotten to the point where you're insulting comrades just because they're from somewhere you don't like. Your xenophobia isn't communism.
Isaac Ramirez
The cat already addressed why they're like this . Even the main American leftist org, the DSA, is absolutely dripping with American individualism and its leaders are incapable of controlling anyone and are barely social democrats themselves.
Brandon Ward
Because half the time it's Euros throwing a bitch fit that they aren't the colonial masters of the world anymore or Americans themselves with daddy issues trying to go for the most "foreign" and seemingly un-western thing they can to escape personal problems (I.E. the closeted orientalism of Maoists and the like)
Tyler Hill
Yes that's precisely what's going on, way to make the case for Americans not being retarded with cognitive dissonance and addled with projection.
Levi Foster
That post you directed me to is totally unrelated to my post and the guy I was replying to. I was calling out an individual for being unnecessarily aggressive towards comrades. I'm not trying to turn this into some petty national squabbling match over which country has the best and worst communists, which you seem to be doing.
So is this even an internationalist board anymore? Because the point I made earlier about people here seeing nation and not class as the primary contradiction is only looking more and more true as the thread goes on. This board takes itself too seriously nowadays.
Benjamin Mitchell
I’m American and wanted to watch this country burn before I even found Marx
Blake Myers
Don’t take what I’m saying the wrong way. I’m talking about mainstream American political culture as it has existed since 1945 until the present. However I think that this is swiftly coming to an end along with the ejection of the former working middle class from their position in the postwar hegemony. The emergence of groups like DSA and Berniecrats as a quasi mainstream political force is incredibly encouraging, even with all their flaws. Like it or not, social democracy is still and always has been a genuine worker’s movement, and it’s reappearance in the US is the first proper worker’s movement in 40 years at least. True revolutionary worker’s movements don’t just appear fully formed from nothing, they evolve as the class struggle unfolds until they are produced by specific conditions. Just as the Utopians and Luddites preceded the Marxists and organized labour, so to do liberal/utopian workers movements often precede class conscious ones. What I said in my post wasn’t meant to write off America as a potential site of revolution, just an explanation of he bizarre and cruel threads in its political culture.
Jaxson Jackson
Comments for a story about a 70 parents and their children drowning in The Mediterranean Sea.
Fuck Europeans, they’re truly less than human, they’re fucking monsters, this entire continent deserves to burn and half the population deserves the fucking bullet. I truly hope WW3 breaks out and Europe becomes a smoldering heap of nuclear waste. Fuck these savages.
It’s consumerism and alienation which are a result of capitalism that’s wrong with America, not something as vague as “Individualism.”
No, they seem be right up their with the SPD.
Was it ever?
Julian White
You people are the problem with the left, your politics isn’t grounded in class consciousness and rational self-intrest, but irrational self-hatred. You scare away workers. You aren’t a revolutionary, you are a fruit juice drinker.
