Orwell Hate Thread

FUCK YOU Orwell fought against FASCISM and STALINIST NIGGERS. Read history you would know Orwell was anti-capitalist and anti-fascist and based. He was against colonialism because it OPPRESSED hindu NIGGERS but STALINISTS LIE and say he didn't cause he though he did what he told to do what he did there while India was alive
POUM did nothing wrong they just wanted pure anarchy state but tankies and FASCISM killed anarchy. Anarchy died in Barcelona CATALONIA and not SPAIN. SPAIN is imperialist FASCIST who are against communism and are REACTION
Didn't know Orwell killed Guardia Civil and Cops because you are communist BOOTLICKING STALINIST NIGGER
STALINIST NIGGERS NEED TO LIE TO SHAME ORWELL
1984 IS OK BOOK BUT OVERRATED
HOMMAGE TO CATALONIA BEST BOOK but exploit fails of TANKIES.

Orwell was a Trot, a demsoc, and a snitch, but retards who unironically try to claim that he was an imperialist or a reactionary are deluded. He was very vocally in favour of socialism until the very end, even if he did allow his experience in Spain and propaganda to horribly distort his view of the USSR.

He also turned out to be wrong in his predictions of the dystopian future. His idea of "newspeak" is exactly backwards. Instead of language being stripped of its expressiveness to be cold and utilitarian, language has been stripped of its concrete meanings to leave only its emotional punch. Politicians and academics don't speak in boring functional jargon. They speak in inscrutable if not incoherent buzzword-salad.

The more I look at the World the more our whole timeline starts to strike me as 1984 turned on its head. Instead of exercising totalitarian control over the flow of information in order to assert an absolute, unquestionable "truth", the information network is simply over saturated with conflicting narratives to the point the notion of "truth" becomes a triviality. There's no reason to control your thoughts, because what you think simply doesn't matter. In a way it's even more demoralizing.

He literally fought in the Spanish Civil War against the Nationalist faction.

Thanks, that helps

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Yes, we know that Brave New World is better.

The Nazis backed the Anarkiddies so it was justified what they did.

Nah really.

Anarkiddies get the bullet too.

...

Oh well, Trots but does it matter because he was a Trot?

Daily reminder that Orwell rolls in his grave whenever some right wingers use Animal Farm and 1984 to justify that Socialism Bad.

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good

Don’t forget Road to Wigan Pier

Nearly finished with the 4th and last book of his collected essays, journalism and letters. It's very clear he took a reactionary turn through the war, I guess that happens when you're just simmering at home. Despite denouncing nationalism as a disease of the mind he still clearly passively absorbed all that war-time propaganda. Similarly, he tears apart James Burnham's works but ends up copying a lot of it for 1984. The collected essays are interesting partly because one can clearly see how the daily life of wartime Britain inspired the setting for 1984 and I would go as far as saying that the fact that it takes place in Britain has to be taken literally and not as a metaphor for the USSR or Nazi Germany.
In the end his works have just become part of capitalist indoctrination through their promotion in school curriculums of capitalist states. I wonder if he was aware of this? He noticed how popular Animal Farm became in the USA though he barely ever wrote about the country and was slightly anti-american, but more from a British chauvinist perspective (e.g. Hollywood movies are corrupting our Bri'ish youth) than because of any concern about imperialism. Orwell could still be rehabilitated as a literary figure under socialism but it would mostly be anything he wrote before the war - his essays on 1930s Britain are good.

Fun fact: in school he snitched on a homosexual kid. Some things never change.

Here it is: orwell.ru/library/articles/reviewer/english/e_bkrev

He was one of the very very few people who criticised the principle of totalitarianism in all its forms at a time when public intellectuals as a rule sympathised either with stalin or with hitler. How the fuck was he reactionary he literally predicted that wwii could not be won without a revolution in England. He died as a result of a neck wound from a bullet he got while fighting fascists in spain. Also he wasn't employed by british intelligence you cunts. He had a conversation with a friend who happened to be working on an anti-communist propaganda campaign forf the government. "Essentially, an anti-communist intelligence unit asked Orwell if he knew any communists, so they wouldn’t waste their time trying to recruit them for anti-communist propaganda." It wasn't a blacklist. Please read: medium.com/@tomsecker/no-george-orwell-wasnt-a-spy-for-british-intelligence-5d55fb15e7ce
Moreover he himself was the subject of MI5 etc investigations and was considered as having 'advanced communist views'
PLEASE read at least one of his essays …

Orwell knew what he was fucking doing when he was writing that book, so no, I don't think he'd be rolling.

I don't think there will ever be a figure in Leftist circles as hilariously divisive as Orwell. The amount of screeching from every tendency about him whenever he's brought up surpasses every other disagreement including, I think, even the infamous Marxist-Anarchist split. In all my years online I've yet to come across a more autisticly-flung diarrhea fuckfest than an Orwell discussion.

Beautiful.

Motherfucker, did you copy pasta this from a post I made in an old Brazil thread?

...

Except he's used as an anti-communist brick to throw every time someone tries to have a discussion.

Hypocritically and with clear bias in Animal Farm.
Ah yes the same Spain where he got kicked out for sectarian agitation and nearly go his entire unit killed because he got bored and shot at rats in No-Mans-Land, attracting a rain of artillery fire onto their heads. That bullet was catharsis.
AND HE ACTUALLY TOLD THEM?! FFS What kind of an excuse is that? "Oh yeah, this anti-communsit guy asked me, a moderate leftist to give a list of communists to a government whose totalitarian potential I portrayed in 1984"
Piss off.
So was basically anyone of any ideological views. Nazis in employ for the CIA had reports and investigations about them as well.
I have, on paper its fine, but in the end it comes nothing but ideological statements that bring nothing new to the table. 1984 was his best work BECAUSE it actually provided a far better picture and application.

TL;DR: Stop making excuses for him
spyculture.com/orwells-list/
bennorton.com/george-orwell-list-leftists-snitch-british-government/

Any intelligent Orwellian government would use Brave New world Method to rule people.

He was just against extremism of any kind, nothing more. There's not much reason to hate him. He certainly embraced socialism but, you know, the one that "could" (None can, this shit is useless. And all of the socialist are a bunch of useless little fags) actually works. However, I think he learned that before dying.

Then he saw how disgrace full socialism was by the hands of Stalin, and he also saw the blood bath, the destructiveness that was the NatBol revolutions with Lenin. This is possibly (IT IS), Stalin more than anything, what led him to wite Animal Farm and 1984. The man is a genius.

Or you just hate his writing, what, you did not understand it? Pathetic.

Have you heard of this fellow called Leon Trotsky?

how did he see it when he knew literally nothing about the USSR? Many others disagreed with his opinion, including capitalists like Joseph Davies, a BUSINESSMAN, and diplomat to the USSR from the USA who went all over the USSR to see how it was. Or people like Anne Louise Strong and many others.

Because that is entirely Lenin's fault. It's not like the Czars actions led to a complete crisis in Russia where people were starving to the point where WOMEN started bread riots, and miner serfs revolted. People wanted change, and peaceful methods were put down with military force. So people decided to use force and the Kerensky government came into power, a liberal system that the people wanted to give a chance before over-turning the whole ship. Kerensky failed to uphold his claims and did little to nothing to help the people. He also suppressed pro-socialist votes. Thus the people revolted again under the banner of Lenin. They stopped fighting the Germans and quickly began to re-organize. Even as they fought the White Army they rushed to create something new and better for the people - electrification of the country, lik-bez to educate the masses and rail roads to transport food and resources.

Blood-bath? the bath was bloodied by reactionary forces of White Guards supported by thousands of Western countries and troops including the USA and UK and many others. What do you propose Lenin was to do against an invading force, eh?
HAHAHAHAHA His Animal Farm is a literal propaganda level caricature of the USSR, down to the whole "Stalin stole Trotsky's ideas" bullshit. 1984 was describing Capitalism not socialism.
he was a centralist ankid like today's radical-liberal antifa.
Tell that to the USSR that built up an economy to rival the USA and beat the Nazis almost singlehandedly. Tell that to Cuba that the USA STILL can't crush even when its under blockade and without major trade partners.
Tell that to the Vietnamese who held out against the French, Japanese, the French again, and then the USA along with other NATO forces. Tell that to the DPRK whose living standards are considered not much worse than its South Korean cousin despite geographical disadvantage.

YOU'RE pathetic.

Are you sure about that one? Not saying DPRK citizens live in poverty and shit but SK right now is booj as fuck.

Lmao, this is on the same level of people who cite Goebbels as proof that Trotsky collaborated with the Nazis.

"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it."

"My recent novel is NOT intended as an attack on Socialism or on the British Labour Party (of which I am a supporter) but as a show-up of the perversions to which a centralized economy is liable and which have already partly been realized in Communism and Fascism. I do not believe that the kind of society I describe necessarily will arrive, but I believe (allowing of course for the fact that the book is a satire) that something resembling it could arrive. I believe also that totalitarian ideas have taken root in the minds of intellectuals everywhere, and I have tried to draw these ideas out to their logical consequences. The scene of the book is laid in Britain in order to emphasize that the English-speaking races are not innately better than anyone else and that totalitarianism, if not fought against, could triumph anywhere."

"The name suggested in Nineteen Eighty-Four is of course Ingsoc, but in practice a wide range of choices is open. In the U.S.A. the phrase “Americanism” or “hundred per cent Americanism” is suitable and the qualifying adjective is as totalitarian as anyone could wish."

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He had TB when he snitched, which causes your mind to rot. Keep this in mind.

In Homage it give pretty good detail into the Revolution in Catalonia, as well as how sectarianism destroyed the Republican War Effort.

Nice Source

He didn’t think Animal Farm would be that popular. He thought it would just be read by leftist Academics.

No, he fucking hated those people.

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Holy shit, you retards are never just satisfied with a principled and honest criticism of Orwell’s actual flaws and betrayals. Instead you try to claim that literally everything he did, ranging from any criticism of Stalinism to shooting at fucking rats, is a sign of some secret reactionary agenda and hatred of communism. It’s not hard to actually appraise Orwell and his ideas and actions without resorting to this kind if bullshit.

Do you really think we could build communism without questioning if we are actually building it ?

He'd probably hate Stalinism more if he knew that it was responsible for the deaths of more communists than actual Nazis. Stalin sent Hitler as a New Year's present the entire leadership of the KPD and KPO exiled in the USSR. Here are three sources where you can read about it, something I'm sure you're loathe to do since it does not support your confirmation bias:

lernen-aus-der-geschichte.de/Lernen-und-Lehren/content/13510?fbclid=IwAR1-YCsgfYBUcnfCQdElBe_ZrTZfP2FGvVNmsUfLggkCgHZ_A7OFXc9CsCI

kommunismusgeschichte.de/lesen/liesmich/article/detail/hermann-weber-weisse-flecken-in-der-geschichte-die-kpd-opfer-der-stalinschen-saeuberungen-und-ihre/?fbclid=IwAR2DR8fFDeyWREjsab_sA6E7BA6rJFW0cNXM76DFF6y60RZBGqu1iFzBjYE

library.fes.de/gmh/main/pdf-files/gmh/1990/1990-05-a-302.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2XFG8l0fxQfkk2PBc3YJAIWB3isrheFSy86-PJvMsPYfylj9ogVVLS6dE

Didn't you resign as BO, Miss Piggy? Da fuq out of here with your reactionary bullshit diatribe about a man who was paid to write Animal Farm by the British Government as anti-communist propaganda.

wtf
old BO was a Stalinist

Now you’re just making shit up, he wasn’t paid by the British to write it. Not only that, Animal Farm is pretty clearly not an anti communist book. The revolution and socialism are portrayed as fundamentally good, but destroyed by a corrupt elite who caused it to revert to capitalism. At no point is it suggested that capitalism is superior, on the contrary the final line is “The creatures outside looked from man to animal, and animal to man, but already it was impossible to tell which was which.” In other words, it’s essentially a leftcom/anarchist/trot narrative of the revolution betrayed. Of course this narrative is itself incorrect, but it’s not anti-communist.
Also this

Ummmm sweaty. Old BO was a Neolib that became entranced in Marxism, then took tiddyskittles and realized that she wasn't really Marx Incarnate, but just another Neolib that wanted snugglewuggles and shit.

Wew. It's like some of you are so entranced with idealism that you ignore the fact that The Fucking OSS and Parliament of Britain paid him a very nice sum of pounds sterling to write this book with an anti-communist slant that could be interpreted as a pro-communist stance. Congrats you like an OG PSYOPS book. I did too and I still like the message, but facts are facts.

Proofs?

Official proofs? No. It's the same kind of shit as thinking Tolkien wasn't offered or part of OSS skullduggery and silent killing. Too many rumors for it and…some other things, but hey no worries. It's not like his odd notable success from a book he didn't really like writing was on purpose or anything.

In other words, no proofs. If British intelligence got him to write the book as anti communist propaganda then why did the CIA feel the need to change the ending in the US backed film version?

I don't remember the Film Ending because I didn't watch it. You'll have to enlighten me, but I can already assume it was due to changing tides and the CIA not seeing eye-to-eye with GBR as much.

The film version cut the humans out of the last scene because it is meant to show that Stalinism is just capitalism with red paint, and that both need to be overthrown. There’s no proof that Orwell was paid to write the book by any intelligence service, nor is the content of the book remotely pro-capitalist, which is why they needed to change it for the film.

"For Queen And Country" right m8? That's why he wrote it as well as for some nice dosh…no really. The edited film and the book itself are two different mediums and subtly is lost upon a visual format. If perhaps you really like Orwell and don't want to accept that a book that he wrote wasn't commissioned by The OSS and some others, then don't. Believe as you desire.

*wuz

ebin

Now now, I never implied anything of the sort insofar as I stated that Orwell was commissioned to write up Animal Farm as a sort of "early PSYOP' for lack of a better word–experiment. That's just how it is man. I don't have those documents because the declassification system in GBR was different and not accessible unless they want it to be. That's all.

I’m perfectly willing to accept all the valid criticism Orwell gets. His list for example was inexcusable. However that doesn’t justify slanderous accusations made without any evidence, or dishonest interpretations of his work meant to make them seem reactionary and anti communist when they were not.

How is nobody responding to this, this is a glorious copypasta

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Perhaps in your eyes. He did what he had to do and perhaps it wasn't as bad as it seems to you that he wrote this in tandem with clandestine types for a sort of…propaganda experiment. No harm. No foul. Eh Snake?

Brave New World is un-ironically a perfect prediction of American consumer society and the post-1968 "mainstreaming" of shit like sexual liberation.

Except he didn’t do that. Post a single shred of proof that he wrote any of his works in collaboration with any intelligence service. An accusation like that made without evidence is the definition of slander.

imagine being THIS much of an angry tankie

Man, so many signs, hmmmmmmmmmm must be nothing. Totally legit guy you are.

You don't have to be a tankie to critique Orwell's reactionary turn.

1984 was more about Wartime Britain with it’s censorship laws and undemocratic beuocracy and how war nesseciates Totalitarianism. The book isn’t a critique of the USSR, or Nazi Germany, or even a critique of capitalism or socialism, but a more of a general critique of the political effects of war. In the book the three superstates are all at war with each other, and have been for, four decades.

Not my fault you’re an autist with zero grasp of actual Marxism.

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He tried to warn you about the state bro.

Poster asks for proof of your statement that

You respond with a personal attack on said poster. Gee, sure sounds like you have evidence to support your claim.

I'm not the dude he's arguing with. I'm pointing out his sketchy history. Cry more you leftcom loser.

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How did your whole NO STATE approach work?

Ah yes, my sketchy history of actually acknowledging that countries besides the US are imperialist and advocating for the use of all political tools to combat capitalism. If revolutionary defeatism and strategic use of electoralism makes me CIA then I guess Lenin was CIA.

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Close, he was a German Military Intelligence asset.

There's absolutely zero sense in preaching revolutionary defeatism of victim states while American hegemony still dominates the world. You implied Iran is imperialist so you must apply that defeatist "strategy" to them as well. Really that should speak for itself, if no one else can see the absurdity in that logic then this board is dead.

You CONSISTENTLY play devils advocate for the US at EVERY opportunity. You've been banned more than 20 times for it as well, yet you still think there's nothing wrong with your philosophy.

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Say what you want, but the Japs DID attack the USA at its height of power.

You may think you're being clever, but just look at your picture. "Leftism" especially western """"""""leftism""""""""" is dead, old, buried. The west made sure of that. So sadly, controversial people that are against the the US are the best hope for revolution as the US is the largest barrier to socialism. That is the real tragedy of the world today.

You could have been more fair and posted some modern "leftists" at the top. Would have really put things in perspective.

Protip Zig Forums migrant: neoliberalism is not analogous to the term "neoconservatism". Neoliberalism is an economics doctrine that is followed by nearly every conservative in existence and the vast majority of elected Democrats. It's not some hip new version of American liberalism, and progressive/Keynesian/social democrats are not "neoliberals".

American hegemony is already in decline, and China and Russia are on the upswing. The US is no longer an unchallenged power, it’s been outmaneuvered in Syria, Iraq, Korea, Venezuela and elsewhere, the transatlantic alliance is crumbling, and it won’t be long before China achieves parity with them.
No I said that Iran is a capitalist power and will therefore inevitably develop imperialist tendencies, if they haven’t already. This is Lenin 101.
No I’ve consistently defended Iran’s right to self determination and expressed support for the Axis of Resistance. I just have no illusions about what Iran really is: a capitalist theocracy that plays an important role in an anti imperialist capacity, but is by no means a revolutionary state.
I’ve literally never done that. You were just one of those retards that insisted that Rojava was a US puppet, and so you considered defending them to be the same as defending the US presence in Syria. You also seem to consider criticism of Russian and Chinese imperialism to be the same as defending the US, which is a total brainlet opinion.
If you unironically still side with the old BO and his little tantrums after everything that’s happened then you shouldn’t be taken seriously. The average length of my bans was about an hour since the mods all knew the BO was a retard. Everybody knew that except you apparently.

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No, the Japs attacking the US caused the US to become a superpower.