Hey guys. Tomorrow is the 4th of July, the American independence day. For the first time in quite a while, it's going to be commemorated with a military parade.
I just want to point out that, by global standards, this is completely normal.
But as a part of the American propaganda regime, military parades have been slanted as jackbooted celebrations of authoritarianism. This was not always the case, American military parades were once a very common sight and old patriotic songs make frequent reference to them. They stopped being kosher when American propagandists started trying to pretend that military parades in communist countries (usually the celebration of Victory Day, the anniversary of the defeat of the Nazis) was ebil totalitarianism. They continue to use these completely normal events to slander their enemies as evil dictatorships that are basically 1984 IRL. Look for any hitpiece on China to have video of Chinese military parades going on in the background.
The other thing they like to go on is this weird neoliberal complaint about the cost of the parade, as if the couple million it will cost is anything to the US military's massive, bloated budget and this is even close the dumbest shit its been spent on.
Just saying, prepare your butts for the massive Neo-McCarthyite hysteria every corner of shitlib social space is going to be spewing everywhere and remind yourselves before you get all caught up in it that military parades are fairly normal and the fear of them is literally a part of imperialist propaganda.
It's kind of weird how America has the sort of militarised culture that would make Prussia blush, but military parades are a no no.
Wtf I love Trump now Tbh it's a good thing that the burgers choose to embrace full-on unashamed nationalist militarism. The US is showing its true face under Trump, tearing away the carefully built PR-facade constructed by former, more liberal and competent statesmen. The monster of the Western hemisphere is finally showing its true form for all the world to see.
The USA already has big military displays at their football games. Given that there are millions of people watching those, they're almost certainly more effective propaganda than a parade.
Not really talking about American military propaganda (which is actually fucking everywhere, there's even this one country song that goes from talking about muh country muh bluejeans muh truck to bullshit about the flag and muh troops out of goddamn nowhere), but the fact that the fear of military parades you see in liberal circles (and will almost certainly blow up tomorrow) is over something that is completely normal, but frequently used in American propaganda about it's enemies.
I'm gonna say it; I hope that happens purely for morbid curiosity's sake.
France has huge military parades. America not having them while being the largest most violent nation causing the immerseration of millions is dishonest, let Trump strip away the carefully curated image the media and the state like to market. The American military is not friendly, it is not a "service" to anyone except the elites. It is a blood soaked force of capital. Let Trump have is parade, destroy the spectacle with spectacle.
You can't destroy the spectacle with spectacle idiot you only replace it, and France shouldn't be allowed to have a military period, every imperialist armed force should be just as if not more restricted than Japan's
Is it replacing one spectacle with another if you're causing the propaganda machine to collapse? Can the spectacle contradict itself? That's a nice sentiment but utterly meaningless as the boys with the guns do the restricting.
Optics doesn't actually change substance. The only way a military parade changes anything for the better it's if it gets stomped out Cable Street style.
That's the crux of it, really. It causes too much cognitive dissonance in burger brains.
I'm genuinely curious where you think the line is because I haven't read Society yet. If something creates a moral panic that starts riots that escalate to widespread civil unrest and destabilises the government causing the markets to tumble into the next recession, where's the spectacle end in the chain reaction? I know normally this is a very very unlikely thing to happen, but America to me certainly seems like it's tumbling into instability at this point.
Was Soviet Union's parades celebration of Soviet imperialism? Is North Korea's a celebration of DPRK imperialism?
this is going to be the best 4th ever for at least 80% of the population
It doesn't matter. US military parades will be good, and those of bad countries bad. Much like US immigrant concentration camps are fine, but supposed Chinese reeducation camps with one billion Uyghurs (who are Muslims, people of the same religion the US has been fighting for the last 20 years) means China is the new Nazi Germany.
But parades are actually cool and badass. Liberals/leftists are criticising it because it's dumpf, not because they care.
Come on Trump, if your going to have a military parade at least have real Tanks. Show me the Abrahams.
If that happened the US would probably move to the left politically. Congress is nothing more then a political front of corporations
That’s not happing though. The only way anti-imperalist could restrict an Imperialist Army is if they had power over it, in which case said army would become anti-imperalist.
This is the only reason to support the parade. It will look cool and their will be good memes coming out of it. Though I secretly hope that this is grounds for a communist coup, one can hope.
If a revolution occurred, military parades would happen every day, so often that the Highways would be closed to cars.
Except it's an American holiday for which it's not particularly normal. Saying "they have it in France" first off isn't an actual justification, and secondly ignores context. We didn't have these tank parades here for the 4th. And what's more, Trump has been harping on this for a while.
So what's significant about it?
The guy who's been calling for it also brought back the program to arm police with military equipment. He supports torture, actively enables censorship, wants to put a giant retarded wall at the southern border, wants to ban flag burning, and says shit like this:
"I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad,"
This is purely an exercise in right-wing military flexing, because there's not a current precedent for it and the guy who really wants it is into militarism.
Isn’t Insurgency a form of war?
What matters is that if the US does this they can’t claim that Russia and China are evil when they do it.
Yea but that doesn’t make ‘liberal hysteria’ an inconsistent and irrational belief as OP is implying.
Plus military parades are dumb and lame anyway.
t.someone whose country has a military parade during national/independence day
I mean, they totally can. And if it's part of a larger program for increased domestic militarization, then doubly so. The guy with the gun to your head doesn't care if he's a hypocrite.
Except the US used to have military parades all the time. It stopped, not because it stopped glorifying its military or stopped being imperialist, but as a propaganda tactic against its enemies.
If the old imperialist formula is talking about how our nation is the greatest and our military is the strongest and the enemy are craven savages who need to be brought to heel, the new formula is to talk about “human rights abuses” and “authoritarianism” (with the unspoken airs that our society does not contain these ills), and somewhat central to this was the subtle American demonization of the military parade. Take this rather mundane occurrence and prentend that it’s an exercise in jackbooted totalitarianism. It’s a central piece of American imperialist propaganda. Hell, it’s even bled into other forms of entertainment. “Hell March” from the Red Alert video games is a reference to Soviet military parades, especially the Victory Day Parade. In the Simpsons, one of the jokes when Russia reveals that it’s still the USSR is that it immediately starts having a military parade.
Also, it was Obama’s who started militarizing the police. Trump isn’t a special case, he’s just American state policy with the mask off. The American political establishment has always tolerated and even encouraged right-wing paramilitaries. Before 1968, the US had been using them to run a clandestine terror state. Trump just says what had previously been unspoken out loud.
I mean, if Trump said to bring back hosing protesters and siccing dogs on them I'd also think that was a bad development. Just because it happened before doesn't mean a return isn't a markedly worse development.
“Scaled it back” after escalating it.
The American establishment has always counted on right-wing paramilitaries to be their goons. Trump just says the quiet part loud.
And, once again, military parades are a perfectly normal thing across the world. It’s got liberals in hysterics because the American neocon-imperialist propaganda machine had been trying to portray the military parades of their enemies as exercises in totalitarianism.
Did he, though?
Afaik the program was basically the same from something like '97 on. It only came under scrutiny during the Baltimore riots, but the policy hadn't actually changed until Obama scaled it back in response. IIRC he also eventually reduced the NSA's spying powers, too - there are people who weren't paying attention until Snowden though who didn't realize that that data collection was Bush-era policy and the NSA hadn't literally just been created by Barry O the day the news hit them.
Not that he didn't continue (and sometimes escalate!) loads of Bush and Clinton-era shit, too. I mean, he was awful, don't get me wrong. But he actually was considerably better on this and several other things. Like, Trump has advocated bringing back Patriot Act provisions which expired under Obama.
The US has military parades already, and it's already an exercise of totalitarianism. I think you're underestimating just how much this has to do with the specific context of Trump wanting to put a big vanity military parade with tanks on a date when there isn't usually one. It's not a "woowee we've never had military parades" before thing, it's that Trump is clearly using it as part of his image and an overall hardline-nationalist police state program. If anything, the worst thing about this on liberals' part is they probably wouldn't bat an eye if a democrat did this specific thing. Complaining that they don't appreciate the global tradition of military parades enough is weird.
The US doesn’t host military parades that I’m aware of at all.
Military parades are a normal part of the celebration of national holidays worldwide. I doubt they’re much ulterior motive behind it beyond Trump thinking military parades are cool. As people have already pointed out in this thread, the Pentagon has already developed a propaganda network more effective than any military parade. Liberal hysteria isn’t going to be around the militarization of our culture, that’s pretty much already complete and they cheered it on. It’s going to be because OMG 😮 ITS JUST LIKE THE NAZI COMMIE USSR NORTH KOREA CHINA VIETNAM 1984 ORWELL REFERENCE 😵😵😵😵
Though I guess that doesn't count somehow, so perhaps you're right.
Why exactly, though?
If you really have to sit and debate whether an open glorification of the State and it's weapons of death to a militaristic population is reactionary or not, then you're truly lost. Just admit you're an authoritarian Soviet larper who likes the color red.
That arose after the Franco Prussian as an expression of French insecurity and revanchism. It was also a way of consolidating the bourgeois third republic through rituals
Garbage. The left wouldn’t be hysterical about military parades anyways, they’re blatantly hypermilitant. Saint Obama kept the state in wars all over while stagnant national elites across the first world brought in massive numbers of lying machismo immigrants to replace the unwanted domestic society of lawful pacifists they arbitrarily hated so much.
This is literally what Qanon thinks what will happen. Along with JFK Jr rising from the dead and anyone without an American flag in their yard being arrested for treason.
Here are your Abrahams.
it's Abrams not Abraham and Bradleys are IFVs not APCs
Ok, so a parade was going to happen but because a few tanks are added, its suddenly unaffordable…bullshit! I love military equipment and SO DO THE KIDS AND THAT'S WHO THE PARADE TARGETS; SICK OF WACKO EVIL DEMOCRATS SPOILING FUN. Not a fing word about the billions spent on illegals but spend a few EXTRA dollars on proud citizens and they loose their marbles. We need to scream louder because civility doesn't work w these nuts. Its time to push back. The last president blew billions on his husband and spoiled brats on vacations, Trump works for free>doesn't get more patriotic then that.. Time to stop the evil left from destroying the younger generation. Use your voice people.. can't handle anymore Cortez wacky jacky lies…
An American president has never done this before!!!
Now, this isn't me defending it. JKF was a trash president who almost got us all killed with his Cuba boogaloo
Source your quotes
Implying that's a bad thing.
I mean the focus of his ire is wrong but he is basically right. With how much we spend on the military they should come to every American's house once a month to give out handjobs. or hook jobs if there hands are unavailable
I wasn’t saying this is necessarily a good thing, just that it’s a normal thing. The liberal allergy to it is pure McCarthyite xenophobia. They aren’t, in any sense, opposed to militarism generally, just this one expression of it, because it’s the thing the dreaded enemy does.
I just did the math and the average american single tax payer pays about $3000 dollars to the military annually.
Parades are honestly the least we should get for that kind of money.
I'm kind of interested in how much opposition within the military there is to this. It's my understanding American top military people look down at parades as a third world thing; i.e. a "parade army" that can't fight and spends all its time drilling for big parades. Also in these countries, the military is like a branch of government unto itself so the parades are a way of flexing and saying that if the political side of the house messes with them they can roll into the capital.
The wall is actually good in that it is a monument to American dumbness.
Why not? The US does that for invading other countries and concentration camps, even though the US is far more brutal than Russia in its wars and if the worst rumours about Chinese concentration camps are true they are still nice compared to American ones.
shut the fuck up liberal
No. Leftists/liberals are opposed to it because they will find any reason to be opposed to dumpf. If Obama or even Bush started doing military parades they wouldn't care.
I'm French and I don't like our military parades. Sure, it might be badass or something, but it just reminds me of the billions our government spends in military interventionism around the world just to follow Americans wrecking havoc in order to ensure the petrodollar supremacy. Reintegrating NATO was a terrible mistake for us, given that we have the largest European military force and a nuclear arsenal. Dominique de Villepin was based for opposing the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and I wish we would still have a similar foreign policy regarding warfare. Fuck Sarkozy and all his successors, and fuck militarism.
You dislike them because they glorify an army that's shitty and evil. That only furthers the point that parades are not inherently bad.
The only cool military parades were Soviet Victory Day parades. This is the only correct Marxist position on this subject
But US military parades are rare
Every time we have military parades here for either Victory Day or other sorts of independence wars they fail to repair the streets that the tanks passed through.
Yeah no. When every male in murica has been conscripted and has military training when can make this kind of comparisons.
But that's just the thing. Obama and Bush didn't do it because that's an element of domestic imperialist propaganda. Trump just doesn't have the tact and smarts to realize this, and just sees other countries having all these cool military parades, doesn't get why we don't do it and demands that he gets a military parade like all the other world leaders.
If Bush II decided to make a yearly parade for his victory in Iraq, or Obama for his victory in Libya, or for any other reason, liberals/leftists would go along with it.
Well this is good, people will realize that their is no ideological justification to the current geopolitical struggle and it’s just Porky moving money around.
this is a good thing. i hope military parades become a thing in america again so they can't use that bullshit argument
let me sum this up for those who are retarded and have the brain power of a 12 year old.
1. America and the Communist countries have been in a cold war 2. Since this cold war Imperialist Murrica that hates socialism and workers owning the means of production needed a way to differentiate itself from the soviet union and communist countries, to point their finger and say look how evil and authoritarian they at least you aren't there. 3. giant military parades were brilliantly stopped in America by the liberals and conservatives and seen as an "evil communist authoritarian thing, see how weird and evil they are for marching all their guns and tanks in the street to keep their people in fear" 4. Thus criticizing military parades is an imperialist trick to make people think they belong to a free non militarized country and that socialist countries are evil military countries. 5. continue to fuck up socialist countries and fight the cold war as an imperialist power/push globalization and war for oil bullshit/ect. all the while pointing the finger at countries like china and the soviet union and saying "See how authoritarian and evil they are for parading their military like that, we aren't like that". so your proletariat slave citizens stay dumb and thankful for their wage slave job in a "FREE COUNTRY"
that is why celebrating military parades is imperialism
sorry i meant to say "this is why not celebrating military parades is imperialism tacticz"
this would be the coolest thing to ever happen. any communist would want this to occur 110% for accelerationisms sake. sadly it won't since there's literally no reason for it to thanks to the relationship of the bourgouise and the gov.
god i would give anything for trump to just announce "i'm president for life now"
The more times I see your take, the weirder I realize it becomes. Like the people you encounter who just base their view on the policy of the Chinese state on military parades could have come out of bizarro world for all I can tell.
I've decided to bother looking it up - and it looks like military parades in the US (of the kind we're apparently talking about - we still literally parade the military frequently for national events but that apparently doesn't count) were actually apparently fairly rare and usually reserved for victories. And the biggest exceptions were actually during the Cold War (specifically Eisenhower and Kennedy ffs). It seems like the US's use of military parades actually correlates very well to their history of military victories - it kind of dries up after Korea.
Your whole thing of "we don't parade our military so we can make a retarded petty argument about the Soviets" seems bizarre. I mean, maybe that was part of it, but American propaganda had a million other things to focus on and indoctrinate people with. And generally speaking, during the height of the Cold War America tended to try to flex and I don't think they were particularly worried about looking too authoritarian when the red scare was going on, either.
Xi isn't really president for life. He can be reelected indefinitely, but he can just as well not be reelected.
Uh… no. It just doesn't work sweetie.
Keep claiming that honey-bumpkin. I'm sure your idealism will get you somewhere… in your head.