Solidarity is strength, yet our energy is weaker still, as another crash stands inevitable where i am, and the rest of the world suffers to corporate and trade warfare caused by a nation i am apparently obligated to celebrate tomorrow. This is pathetic, how did we get this way, why dont we ever learn? Petty infighting only serves the interests of the state to disband our various attempts to organize for a real cause. Alienating and scaring off recently disillusioned people does a disservice to recruiting efforts. If you want to see something done, do what our ancestors did in the 30's, come together as one. Otherwise, we are stuck forever as the world crumbles to chaos before our eyes. What matters most are these things, there is no particular order, all are equally important:
The liberation from capital hierarchy and unjust enrichment via "profit"
Militant devotion to leftist efforts
The acquirement of the surplus for the people who worked for it
The liberation from reactionary enforced social constructs
Solidarity with people of all paths and identities
The welcoming with open arms of the dissilusioned and disenfranchised, for all who question the system with human dignity are a threat to it
The expansion of intellectualism and reason, and to correct the ideological bumblings of whomever with rationale and not vitriol.
All these stand above antagonism, as the urge to provoke dissenting pessimism and nothing more fouls the class consciousness that could be observing. We can do better here. Improve yourselfs, and realize whats at stake. Rightwingers are organizing up the hoo-ha around the world, we better catch up or we are all toast.
I'm down, as long as we actually unite around a common doctrine instead of accomodating anarchist individualist bullshit.
Yes, anarcho communism is notoriously left leaning, do you have a point, or are you gonna gawk like a prick from a distance still?
Individualism and collectivism are not mutually exclusive. What actively hurts the people will be collectively taken care of, such as exploitation and unjust acts. How someone expresses themselves, will be determined individually. For demanding conforminity breeds atrocity, always has, always will.
its a joke, chill. Im cool with working with anarchists if we have actual plans and organize our praxis besides muh spontaneous revolution.
But atrocity against those who hurt the innocent is not only justified, but mandatory
I meant no disrespect, its just i dont think we have time to fuck around, im here to discuss substantial politics and beliefs, any less is pointless and serves little but to distract.
Sure, sure, I understand. Do you have some dank ass plan that you feel like sharing? Its 3 am where I am rn so im quite tired.
Imternet ain't the way to organize shit though. If you can't make things happen in your area person to person you are fucked from the start.
I see a lot of anons paranoid about making plans online because the authoroties might be watching and they are right to be. Only write on this shit what you wouldn't be afraid to write in a flyer and handing out in person.
Also anyone can be anyone on this shit so don't get your panties in a twist someone tears down your ideology whe claimimg to be some adherent of so.e other ideology because you have no clue if they were actually what they say or a larper or anything.
Well shit guys, C, gave us a deadline, let's hop to it!
I know you want to emulate the right wingers but I don't think you perfected the melodrama yet.
How long tul you get over your "mood" op and take a corporate job?
why not create a coop with a couple of other gommunlists or some shit?
I get that youre tired and maybe not in the mood for this kind of thing, its all good, im there alot sometimes but its important to not give into that so much, remember, counterrevolutionarues rely on the lower drive and motivation society often causes. That aside.. All i really want is people to walk away from discussions here thinking about something, but yeah ill adress your request: In post i explained the fundamentals ive picked up on from various left leaning circles A "plan" would start with the holding of those as a kind of doctrine to unite around. It is of course an uphill battle, all efforts to criticise an establishment are inherently difficult, as some vocal causes do seem to fall too far into obscurity or censorship. The rightwing base is growing rapidly as naive centrists, liberals, and moderates often fall for their half-truths and fear peddling. In the small town where im at it is often an even worse sight, to see the proletariat so blind makes my blood boil. Somethings gotta change
I like how you do everything but contribute to the discussion. Its almost like you arent really motivated to do much but dissent. This is pointless, what youre doing, i see it time and time again, and am now numb to it. Low energy. Fuck off
We have to constantly deal with an onslaught of bullshit from liberals, centrists, and reactionaries because they don't know what the fuck anything left of Regan is half the time. They seem to react positively to criticizing the establishment, and also seem to like all past socialist revolutionaries until you tell them they were socialist. I literally had a person I knew who disavowed Einstein because I showed him the article he wrote "why socialism?". If we don't somehow cut off this endless stream of bullshit about socialism, communism, and anarchism, we don't have any chance of getting anywhere. It actually reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Mark Twain, “It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Grifters like Jordan Peterson have done a ton of fucking damage to leftist movements because of his conspiracy garbage and half baked lies.
C, you're low energy, you should fuck off.
don't let me spoil your revolution fantasies though
Not the worst idea, its what people did back then. The union prescence in my country was huge during both the recession and the depression, another on is inevitable, and with bernies campaign working rights are entering the conversation even where i live. That gives me hope, maybe there is an opportunity there.
A "no u" is the best you could give me? Man, cynicism has made you into a fucking dumbass. What is leftism BUT to criticise or revolt against the current system of explotation? Do you not know your roots, how this was all thought about to begin with? This is a waste of time. You arent here to have a conversation, but to laugh smugly at whoever you think is naive. Thats some pathetic incel shit, why partake in it, what possesses you to do so? Really, im wondering, how did this dissenting nature come about?
I know, its really annoying. But we are farther in than we were before. We have to keep trying, no matter what.
Radlib detected. can't wait for you to "grow out of" your phase once you get out off college and join the liberal middle class. LMAO. let me guess you denounce the totalitarian soviet union too?
More pathetic whining. I dont care, its not even worth adressing this dunb strawman your giving ms. Talk policy and stop attacking people over hypotheticals, otherwise youre useless to discussion. Gatekeeping is extremely counter productive by the way. Also, im a working class male living in a small town, i was born and raised conservative and five years ago was slowly enlightened to leftist and prpgressive ideas. No left leaning sector is perfect of course, but we are better of trying to appeal to our left leaning people, and to anyone screwed by the system.
Again, youre doing everything but talk about something substantial. Why are you even in a leftism board if you confuse its definition with that if cynicism? Makes zero sense. What exactly are you here to do but antagonize?
The fact you get your jimmies rustled so easily and you have no actionable plan lets me know you aren't going to do shit.
You conflate a reply to your comments, with someone being upset, this is inaccurate at best. None of wjat youre telling me surprises me anymore, ive been given shit for my views all my life, id just appreciate something substantial for once. The "actionable plan" has already been reiterated by me several times. We have to reconcile with our base, and that means bringing the conversation beyond merely ranting about those not enough to the left of you. We fight eachother more than the system we all to some extent agree is problematic, thats insane. Now I myself do not expect to accomplish much alone, as most leftist ideology only actually works when the whole community gets around to it, until then its hit or miss and trial and error, as were most things at their origin. So i do my best to speak on these issues whereever appropriate.
So why not get your neighboes on boare and report back to us?
But the vast majority of my state is caught in a propoganda loop, me doing it alone would take years this world doesnt have. Your request is nonsensical. Can you please stop being a fucking idiot?
Also i like how you still avoid most of my points and only go for what you think you can "gotcha" me on. Its almost like you arent here to talk about anything substantial at all.
What are "leftist" efforts? People like Barack Obama, Bernard Sanders and Tony Blair are "leftists" too. The Iraq War was a leftist effort.
Please clarify with terms like "socialism" or "communism".
No, just no, the iraq war was not by any honest stretch a leftist effort, to say so is to blatantly ignore our long history of anti-imperialism and anti-interventionism. Also are you unaware of the fact that bernie sanders has been criticising this type of foreign policy for decades? Not to mention, actual leftism in america as of this century is still quite new, and its unbearably weak compared to what it could potentially be- and what it used to be. I point this out, and all i get is the exact same nonsense i just criticised. Its maddening, but hilarious at the same time, like listening to a conservative talk about the world.
How do you reconcile that with posts like where you declare that certain self-proclaimed "leftists" aren't real leftists. I completely agree that those people aren't leftists, but doing so is undeniably gatekeeping. Without gatekeeping we have to accept that Hillary Clinton is a leftist because she says she is.
Some gatekeeping is justified and practical, some is not. The line is drawn.. again, at what most actual leftists believe
And if you do too much gatekeeping you alienate everyone. Its called.. modetlration.
Right. So gatekeeping is just as "extremely counterproductive" as eating.
To call yourself a leftist, to bundle yourself with people like Tony Blair, denies that history of anti-imperialism.
True it was a rightist effort on Bush's side (though not without significant support of leftists like Hillary Clinton), but it was leftist from Blair's side.
Bernard Sanders voted for the Afghanistan war and praised many aspects of the war on terror including the use of drones. His criticism was always far more on strategic and legalistic grounds than anti-imperialism or care for the life of non-Americans.
Sanders calls himself a socialist too, but that at least can be objectively denied for any sensible definition of socialism. Not so much for leftism.
"Leftism" doesn't mean anything. It is not an ideology or political programme. It is an arbitrary bundling of wildly different and incompatible politics, in a dumb idea that all politics exist in a spectrum that goes from right to left. "Left-right" politics makes the US Democratic Party and its informal wing DSA and the UK Labour Party "leftists" in each's respective situation.
If you define yourself as the gatekeeper of "actual" leftism and then pick people who agree with you, actual leftism can be whatever you want.
You would not be doing it alone, you would be reporting back to us Hut hut comrade user