Why do left wing parties promote immigration?

Juan Butler
Juan Butler

Hi, I used to visit infinity somewhat often before the Trump elections happened, and remember there were quite a few people here that have insights I myself wouldn't have come to with regards to the right/left wing in politics.

I'd like to know what you guys think on the issue of left wing parties supporting (mass) immigration.
(Let's not discuss this statement itself, as I'm sure it's not the case everywhere, but it is the case where I life.)

I feel like immigration is a positive for big multinationals, as it both provides cheap labor and a divide between different peoples of the lower classes. I also see this as the reason many people of said lower class voted for Trump and others like him.
I am simply unable to understand why immigration is something the left wing should strive to incorporate into their programs.

Please explain it to me, thank you.

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Other urls found in this thread:

americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/11/the-left-case-against-open-borders/
youtube.com/watch?v=SNb-twWyEz8

Isaac Ramirez
Isaac Ramirez

americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/11/the-left-case-against-open-borders/

Noah Butler
Noah Butler

Succdems do it out of sheer moralfaggotry, to feel good about themselves.
Revolutionary left understands that migration crises is an inevitable result of global capitalism doing it's thing, so we build solidarity with migrants to eventually fuck porky up together.

Carter Cox
Carter Cox

Because those who are really poor and harmed the most by immigration dont vote or at least a lot less in their interst then higher classes do, so there is no incentive to pander to them. The most left parties are generally just liberal labour aristocrats who are happy about cheaper products/services and do not have to compete with largely unskilled workers.

Nolan Nguyen
Nolan Nguyen

The migration crisis will end capitalism

Isaiah Fisher
Isaiah Fisher

It won't, gimping the nation state is just the next hurdle to topple in the way of more profits and power.

Ayden Green
Ayden Green

I'm sure it made sense in your head before you typed that.

Connor Ross
Connor Ross

workers need replacing.
toilets need cleaning.
states that take in refugees get Federal grants, exemptions etc…they do not do it out of the goodness of the heart. its cash and numbers. not too different to 200 years ag.

Austin Lopez
Austin Lopez

Which left wing party *promotes* mass-immigration exactly? I do not know a single such one.
I know of parties that allow migrations that have already started to settle in their countries, but this is a very different position from promoting immigration. Some do the first, noone that I know of does the latter.

James Sullivan
James Sullivan

Fuckin Christ cuck

Suck off an evangelical

Adrian Jenkins
Adrian Jenkins

Clearness and simplicity of language is a proletarian virtue. Keep up.

Asher Watson
Asher Watson

Bro, have sex with a statue of Jesus

Jaxon Harris
Jaxon Harris

I too would like to know the answer to this question

Joshua Hernandez
Joshua Hernandez

Not just lefties. Migration is inherent to human nature and the concept of nationality is a spook you dense meatpuppet

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Blake Nguyen
Blake Nguyen

Because those who are really poor and harmed the most by immigration

Most of those people don't even know any immigrants lol

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Ayden Perez
Ayden Perez

This, the only people who understand that climate change means the death of the nation state as we know it are some strain of Leninist

Xavier Wright
Xavier Wright

nationality is a spook
Why are there so many definitions of a "nation"? For some it just means the local culture.

Juan Cook
Juan Cook

If the prevailing issues over immigration are based around employment - cheaper labor, housing markets, gentrification - outside of the context of bourgeois politics it's a non-problem.

Promoting an Anti-Wage struggle over the Pro/Anti Immigration argument should be the real concern; anything else obfuscates the real interest of the worker.

David Reed
David Reed

Because some nations no longer exist in their homelands, and some nations have colonizing cultures on their homelands.

The original African slaves and their descendants were/are a nation brought to another land to slave away and then to form the bottom rung of society

Native Americans are a nation with an occupying state on their lands

Same with the Palestinians

Ryan Brooks
Ryan Brooks

Tbh this whole immigration meme don’t even make sense because the entire purpose of borders is to facilitate the export of capital without the export of non-coerced laborers

Jack Murphy
Jack Murphy

There is none you faggot. Look at Japan where the Conservative party has made it so there is slavery.

Dominic Anderson
Dominic Anderson

Holy fuck, there’s slavery in Japan? Like, legal slavery? Or are we just talking about the horrific working conditions in Japan where they work you to death?

Daniel Mitchell
Daniel Mitchell

Americans are a nation with an occupying state on their lands
Their nation is no longer large enough for it's own territory tbh

Jace Edwards
Jace Edwards

Wouldn't be surprised if Japan had something similar to this

youtube.com/watch?v=SNb-twWyEz8

Adam Flores
Adam Flores

I didn't say those who vote far-right, but guess who lives in the ghettos and does the menial labour

Brandon Jackson
Brandon Jackson

…immigrants?

Zachary Gray
Zachary Gray

I think most of the people here gets it wrong.

A marxist doesn't promote immigration. We don't celebrate and promote immigration. That's why we are different from the "left" (i.e. SJW-tier liberals). We don't think that massive immigration (a different and more radical immigration than one guy acquiring a foreign citizenship or something like that) is good.

What we also won't do, and that's the difference we have with the populist right, is blaming immigrants for our economic or cultural decline.

tl;dr: we won't stand for any kind of reactionary IdPol, either in it's SJW variant or in it's right-wing populist variant.

Having said that, it's obvious that immigrants are here and they're workers and human beings just like us. That's why we offer them our solidarity and we would like to share the same struggle against capitalists (unfortunately, such struggle is practically absent in first-world politics today, instead it emerges in the disguised form of populism, the valve escape through which tensions temporarily alleviate but do not solve). We understand that immigration is an emergent phenomena of capitalism. When capitalist mode of production was introduced into the third world and the market dynamic became global, subsistence economies were erased and many of this countries became big crop farms with permanent unemployment for a lot of people. Unable to subsist farming their own land like many of these people used to do, obligated to search for a job to get a wage and survive, and unable to find it in countries that because of world division of labor became big farms, these people were first obligated to migrate from rural town to the cities. And that same movement, a dynamic that is inherent to capitalism, is reproducing nowadays from a country to another. That's why immigration is not something to be glad of. Hell no, I do not like. Even on a subjective level, I don't have absolutely anything in common with a migrant and the clash between his and my culture and subjectivity can be traumatic and violent for both.

But, what are we going to do? From the moment we understand the reasons why these people are obligated to migrate, we can't just hate them and blame them because it's the global dynamic of capitalism which pushes people to migrate, the same way it pushed our ancestors to migrate to a new continent.

Of course, a first and common-sense solution would be to aid these countries instead of sanctioning and invading them like the USA has been doing, right? But even if the USA hadn't destroyed many of these countries in central america, the dynamic I described would still stand because it's the product of a globalized market, and that's inherent to capitalism.

If you want to stop with massive immigration, which no doubt is traumatic for everyone, the only thing you can do is fighting global capitalism. That's why right wing populists are blind and dumb. They don't understand the deep causes, they don't want to understand them and they don't want to be responsible.

Blake Kelly
Blake Kelly

Migration is inherent to human nature

This is the kind of shit that we marxist should be clearly against. This is shit-tier neoliberalism.

First of all, if you are a marxist then you should accept that there is absolutely NOTHING natural to humans, other than the fact that they produce and reproduce their own material existence through a labor process that is always collective, thus engaging themselves in social relations of production. Anything else (read: culture, different ways of inhabiting space and experiencing time, etc.) is historically contingent as it emerges from this material base that is a mode of production —a set of social relations, basically—. You might as well do not agree with this. But this is what Marx said.

Having said that, any kind of statement that claims that any feature of humanity other than this is natural, is non-marxist and basically reactionary and normative bullshit.

Through human history, migration was not a permanent phenomena. For example, during the middle age and basically until the industrial revolution, the average joe farmer would born and die in the same town. Massive migrations were product of extreme contingencies or cataclysmic events like wars. Read Hobsbawm for this. When industrialization and capitalism started to become the dominant way of production, migration became a way of existence in capitalism. How? For example, the enclosure acts in England. This concentration process left many farmers without a land. They were obligated to migrate to the cities and leave rural areas. There, they had to try to sell their labor force to the best bidder. But if labor demand was short, they might had to migrate to any other city to get their wage and survive everyday life. We still see that everyday. Constantly, people moves from state to state just to get a job. That instability is one of the features of the capitalist way of production, it's not a natural human trait.

Mason Wright
Mason Wright

And I forgot to add one thing.

The marxist analysis tells us that cultural forms and different types of subjectivity stem from this material base. This means that it was first the rise of capitalism what created the western trait that we now deem as "natural", and not the other way around. The aspiration to migrate, discover new places, the need for adventure and all of this, is not something eternal and universal (like any other cultural desire, it's always historically determinated). It came to be with modernity and capitalism. The narrative of the individual who in an atomistic ways decides to travel, discover and fulfill his personal and private fantasies; that's not an eternal trait of humanity. It's an specific cultural form that arised with modernity and capitalism, not the other way around, because of the material changes in existence that I have already described. Again, you might as well disagree with this. But this is the marxist analysis. You can always go back to reddit to spit that liberal shit-tier rhetoric about human nature.

David Clark
David Clark

Because sadly there's a lot of retards who think individual liberties are worth more than the liberty of society. Sadly found out that is also true of the local reaction I am part of last night. Fuck your immigrant parents and fuck your sob story, countries like the Baltic's are being destroyed by mass migration of its youth to Western europe. Mass migration destroys both societies.

Bentley Cox
Bentley Cox

Citizen of former British colony here. This migration for job is true. Before the British conquered us we held mostly farmers and other primitive jobs and lived entire life in the same village. Now in the age of capitalism, those jobs cannot cut it. I had to move to another town to get better job.

Blake Gutierrez
Blake Gutierrez

Mass migration would be globally egalitarian if so many migrants weren’t authoritarian shits. It’s probably globally egalitarian anyways, but it’s hard not to resent the loss of honesty that was forced onto developed nations.

Jordan Kelly
Jordan Kelly

I suppose it is based in the libertarian logic of supporting free trade thus free travel of labourers, and the left is pretty freedom-minded today, which is why they co-operate with liberals.

Aaron Brooks
Aaron Brooks

"liberty of society"
stupid nonsense statements

Cooper Moore
Cooper Moore

migrants weren’t authoritarian shits
Are they migrating straight into your parliament?
hard not to resent the loss of honesty that was forced onto developed nations
Forced by whom? Developed nations came up with that shit themselves.

Jaxson Cruz
Jaxson Cruz

Forced by whom?
the bourgeoisie, the vast majority of the any population wants border control and all are against mass immigration into their country. This trend is consistent from Kenya, to Australia, to Mexico. The fact that in every single Western the popular parties refused to do extremely easy task shows you that it is being forced from up high. Here there is a big difference between the US and Mexico, the latter listens to its people, and not just a tiny fringe group who gets all their views from TV show hosts

Isaac Collins
Isaac Collins

i think you idolise the public too much

Jackson Evans
Jackson Evans

If the nation is controlled by bourg is not being forced by bourg, it's just doing its thing.

Noah Ortiz
Noah Ortiz

"Revolutionary left" that has solidarity with migrants isn't a significant political force anywhere in the West, so you aren't doing or significantly supporting any policies.

Leo Ortiz
Leo Ortiz

Immigration both legal and illegal, educated or not only aids the capitalist. Immigration allows megacorps to circumvent actually training and educating their workforce and allows them a constant flow of labor that decreases the ability for natives to organize against porky because now there is an entire planet of labor that can be shipped into the country at will. It doesn't matter how it's wrapped up whether it's boomer "der mow arr lawn" or liberal "can't be illegal on stolen land" it's different faces for the same thing. Borders limit capitalist power.

Lucas Garcia
Lucas Garcia

So you build solidarity with the migrants by cucking your own national interests and giving porky an endless army of cheap labor? We can barely organize our own against porky in the states not to talk of all the workers in the world.

Eli Rodriguez
Eli Rodriguez

Open borders means open routes for human trafficking and we get to enjoy the cartels meme-violence. So the beheadings with knives, the throat stabbings and people being beaten to death then raped (if they're a girl).

It's the shit that the left promotes while paradoxically not wanting what it represents, like cheap labor? that means the labor pool is flooded with people who will work for nothing and the 15$ minimum wage will be a dumb meme since they can pay a mexican 5 under the table.