this is what being an anarkiddie and not reading theory breeds…
Breadtuber goes fash
imagine my shock
Holdup he believes in materialism and in the spook called race at the same time?
Looks like the opportunist e-celeb Holodomor has finally arrived. First Batko and now this irrelevant person I've never heard of. Hope they all kill themselves.
Oh, I remember this guy saying 5 year olds can theoretically consent to sex in a socialist society.
Anyone who pretends this exists and advocates for it needs to be shot.
This is what happens when shopping in the supermarket of ideologies goes wrong. I mean, look at the dude, he's choosing based on lifestyle.
And this is why "former" fash aren't reliable.
I don't know how one really gets into the fashy ideology without being a shitlord from the start. I mean, I know Nazi shit is pushed really hard in modern society and a lot of it just gets absorbed by osmosis, but there's a difference between someone merely absorbing Nazi ideas and repeating them without thought, and someone who actively goes about kicking down poor people and social Others for cheap amusement. I've not met a single person in the latter camp that wasn't just a fucking piece of shit from the outset, and almost never do they really have regret for that behavior (the few times they did, it's because they have lost so much social status that a return to their previous behavior is literally impossible, and even then a good number of fallen people hold on to what they had to their dying breath).
So, he went back to fascism in the end? Yeah, his video on fascism sounded incredibly sympathetic to it, so it’s not shocking, and he started as a fash. Shame tho
Agreed, fascists are big time douchenozzles.
Ex-fash here. He should've read theory
Imagine calling yourself a leftist and being this undialectical
Being fash is something metaphysical amiright
Darth Vader be like:
Really obscure one. He has his own subreddit with zero comments and the r/breadtube thread on one of his videos was not very enthusiastic:
Going by that definition, TV and blue-checkmark twitter is full of fashies, but I'd rather classify them as neoliberal.
Why the fuck you believe in forgiveness, lib?
Just because a lot of the board here were former fash, doesn’t mean all fash shouldn’t be shot with impunity
More like a Storm trooper who never saw action and sat on his ass on a imperial owned backwater planet as some administrator realized who the fuck he working for and why it was bad after he read some Rebel propaganda. Ya know like Finn.
Yea but Finn didn’t get the British white gussy in the end, did he?
Forgiveness is a spook, I think it's quite idealistic to expect people can't change.
Don't doubt me that I would love to lynch some fash
I don’t know man, straight up murdering the Emperor goes a way in his favor. It is a strawman comparison.
Not all assholes are fascists, but all fascists are assholes. Literal fascists are a vanishingly small minority and the type that attract to actual NutSac movements are uniformly a type of degenerate that is painfully predictable.
I never said change is impossible, but I have never truly observed it, and if someone was attracted in the first place to kicking down the poors, it says some things about their character and thought process that are unlikely to ever change so long as it is materially possible to continue. The thought process of someone who wants to kick down the weak for fun and amusement is self-perpetuating and self-justifying, and if you do not see that, you're retarded.
You're the Liberal, ofc all counter-revolutionaries will be fought and killed, but it has absolutely nothing to do with any of the Moralism you're spouting as if being a Fascist is some kind of Mind Disease that exists outside of Material Reality. Your position is anti-materialist; a Working Class or more commonly Lumpen individual who found themselves swayed by Fascist ideology can very well evolve beyond it, a Petit-Bourgeois individual less so, if you apply the simplest amount of Class Analysis for obvious reasons. The conditions themselves are prerequisites for the likelihood of outcomes and so assigning some kind of moral value to the unfolding of things on an Individual or Social level is retarded. We kill Fascists because they are our enemy, not because they are evil. They are evil, but it's besides the point, the inherent antagonism exists outside of it.
Who? Seems like an attention starved child.
I am *irrationally* angry. Like genuinely rage-drunk.
Where did I say that retard? I never called you a counter-revolutionary, I said your attitude was Liberal because you were turning things into Moralism. You neck yourself you strawmanning cuck. Take off that flag you fucking faggot, acting like an unmarxist little bitch. I don't give a shit about "reaching out to Fascists"
It's not moralism to call fash the faggots that they are as a necessary condition for believing in and acting out the ideology and practice of fascism at its basic level. You don't do that shit while being an otherwise decent person, and it's not as if there is some force compelling people to join NutSacs or Proud Boys or other such groups because mainstream Americans consider them all to be faggots and jokes and see them as the degenerates that they are.
If those people are willing to stop being faggots, great, but I'm not going to pretend that there's a nice person inside every fash. That's retarded and crippling to pretend that your enemy isn't really your enemy. You fucking crush and kill your enemies, you don't secretly believe they can be friends because you are scared of your own convictions. God damn.
I guess than then ML will be a sect of 10 people, right? Because neither fashes or SJW's are our friends, and since they're our enemies and we have to crush them… Sounds pretty smart.
But no, it's fucking retarded. Nobody begins his political life as a marxist, not even here on this board. People usually begins with childish and simplistic options, such as "white people is devil/jews control the world" etc… Our work is to promote class consciousnesses to all of these people. The only ones who we can't convert are the ones who own the means of production: they probably already have consciousness of their class and they're our only enemy.
When you sort of understand that capitalism is bad but still want to keep your favorite spooks
People who do the shit fascists do are your enemies, and if you don't kill them, they kill you, as they have done repeatedly throughout history up to the present day.
You'd seriously expect me to cripple myself by believing that people who want to kill me, who have taken proactive steps to violently suppress me and who have killed millions of people like me, who fully subscribe to such ideologies and have acted on them with conviction, aren't actually doing what they're doing? You want me to play tricks on myself so I don't defend myself and engage in a moral cowardice. I know how this trick works, because I used to believe in this sort of thing, and it has done me exactly no favors once ever in my life. My enemy is my enemy.
I mean, Jesus, you actually believe poor people don't understand their class position and just need moar consciousness bruh. Seriously? Fash know damn well where they are in society, they know they're scum, they just don't care. They're perfectly conscious of what they're doing. So are a good number of the apathetic normies you think need to be washed with some brand spanking new ideology. We all know the system is shit. It's incumbent on you as a socialist to offer a credible alternative, and no "it'll be settled after the revolution, trust us guiz!" is not a credible answer and if you say that as a general program, you'll be laughed out of power. That's why the actually competent and successful socialists aren't ultra-retarded about ideology and know how to build a platform and actually, you know, do shit. It's shit easy to say some shit and sound Marx-y enough, but you could just as well be a joke like Bordiga.
Based and redpilled. He should come to >>>/fascist/
So, what the fuck does all of this mean?
How do we even offer people an alternative if they're first brainwashed by ideology? Try to talk with a right-wing person about socializing some service, without even mentioning the word communism or marxism. They are really well-trained, they will cry out "that's communism! it killed 40 gorillion of people! they're taking our freedom!". Try to talk with a SJW normie about how right-wing populism it's an emergent phenomena of late capitalism and neoliberalism, how class tensions are being fakely alleviated through identifying an enemy like the immigrants or whatever. They will rapidly dismiss you, more if you're white. They don't believe that neoliberalism is the cause. Instead, it's white people who are intrinsically evil and racist.
You can't even propose an alternative to these people because their brainwashed ideology will not even allow them to hear you. Everybody knows the system is shit, yet they fail to understand why and they constantly blame it on spooks, hence the different forms of IdPol.
fascism is an upgrade from this honestly
This guy's a fucking loon. Also the material conditions always comes before any prose/idealism - middle class kids will almost always turn fascist when push comes to shove.
The punching down is the reason I left the ideology. Capitalism as system promotes punching down as a way to disable organizing potential of the working class
I don't think there's a whole lot of brainwashing, the fash who are in it to kick down some poors and browns for shits and giggles didn't need an ideology to tell them to do that. They're just following their nature. In my observations of human behavior, not just of fascists but with anyone, those people with pathological bully-coward tendencies are not the least bit conflicted about their behavior, it's just something that comes more or less naturally to them in any possible social system, and because the behavior is self-reinforcing, those who practice such behaviors are unlikely to listen to any reason or plea to stop, even when it is in their clear material interests to do so. Such practices don't respond to logic or long-term reason. It's pure instinct.
The reason why your proposals fail is because, maybe, the immortal science of communism isn't as obvious as you think it is, and people have very good reasons to be skeptical. Like I said, if you want to tell people that communism is the way, it's incumbent on you to be able to describe what a socialist system would possibly look like in practice, and the answers I usually receive to that question are often really, really shoddy and show that people really have no idea what they're doing, and they're just planning to wing it once the time comes. I'd be skeptical if I didn't take the time to read deeper into this stuff and into how the system we have now formed. I still am skeptical about just how competent a lot of socialists would be in a revolutionary situation, and whether the whole thing won't just get coup'd and turned into something else.
Well, I'm glad you saw it that way.
Thanks comrade. Also I didn't consider myself fash but I was pretty nationalistic so I guess it's the same. I was spooked on Marx and Communism until I actually read some books.
It seems that this breadtuber never fully despooked himself which is why he collapsed back into ideology
you are a fucking retard my man
Unless you can someone alter the calculus where immediate and repeated violence against an easy target is a social strategy that comes easily, you can't disprove me, retard. No one has ever, in their life, just decided to stop doing that of their own free will. Only the sobering influences of reality and the obvious implications of such an practice taken to its logical end would stop people, and obviously most people don't really question the principles of Social Darwinism despite knowing full well its long-term implication, even when they know that implication would be directly hostile towards themselves. They literally can't help themselves, the instinct to kick down is so deeply ingrained that they keep running to the next excuse to do it in a somehow more justified way. That's the sad state of humanity, that most of them will only ever respond to violence because they don't believe in actually learning or trying to understand anything.
I do think theres somewhat of an underestimation of the importance of information and education. In theory i think almost all people we would classify as 'fascists' could be converted, same with liberals. But only in theory.
As a Marxist i often find it hard to break through to people because you can't just 'debunk' this or that thing, it's all attached to the whole belief system, and you need to knock entire structures down to even make a dent into peoples thinking. The normies are taught a way of reasoning, categories, priorities, in large part revisionist history, all that as a firewall against the pressure of eternally emerging class consciousness. The only thing that protects people against fascist ideology are some factoids, and the official morals that liberal society seems to uphold. Basically you need to introduce people to entirely new ways of thinking before they can really understand Marxism.
Seriously, I only even became a communist because I was already predisposed to question the overall narrative of society anyway; most people aren’t like that.
I don't think this kind of thinking is exclusive to fascism, or that fascism can be definitionally defined as simply this tendency to kick down the weak (which is usually how people think, because they've been stripped of any understanding of what fascism really is in the first place; even the fascists themselves don't really know what they're saying, just look at Tarrant who thought that the PRC was an eco-friendly ethnostate and an ally.
I don't believe Marxism is immune to this tendency either, and it would remain a simple reality in socialism too. It's always going to be easier to resort to force and kicking down someone beneath you than it is to build mutually cooperative social structures of such a large size, and there is no natural, airy force of human brotherhood that can be a given you can beat over everyone's head. The right's answer to universal human brotherhood is to simply scoff at the idea, and it's not necessarily because they're evil or small-minded, but that they recognize readily that humanity isn't one big happy family just because someone wills it or tries to institute it through brute force.
Ancoms will defend this.
All these toastie ex fascists. Sorry but if you're material conditions brought you into something and extreme as fascism then theory isn't like to change that even of you're a self proclaimed leftist now. The type of ex fascists that have developed a rigorous enough intellectual honesty to resist are exceptions that prove the rule.
When push comes to shove and you're asked to make real sacrifices for leftism or take the much easier route of becoming fash, you're already primed to take the latter.
You're not entitled to the trust of leftists because you espouse the same ideology now.
Lol not when they're my property
I found this old post so interesting that I saved it.
Well, fascism to me is not really a coherent ideology but more of a compulsive force that can be weaponized in the form of an emergency state if there is a threat from the left – that is historically its "function." I'm not well read on theory but it feels like ideologies have to be functional in some sense otherwise you're just LARPing, and Marxist-Leninist theory when it functions is like a weapon in the hands of the working class as opposed to ideologies that service the capitalist ruling class.
Now when you look at fascism there really isn't any theory at all. There are assorted "manifestos," half-baked utopian visions, pornographic genocide novels and dog-faced autobiographies like Hitler's but those will not tell you much. Fascism is non-falsifiable and doesn't make predictions about how things are supposed to unfold other than "everything is going to go kablooey in a big Nazi masturbation fantasy" because the Jews are pushing everyone into it for their own machinations but the Jews are also trying to prevent that from happening to preserve their own conspiratorial position over society (you see how this is like people who believe we're being ruled by space aliens?). But obviously if you tested their predictions to historical reality they would fall flat on their face over and over again, and fascists have never been able to launch their mock "revolutions" without the collaboration of existing elites, including in both the German and Italian cases. In the latter, Mussolini engaged in a show "coup" and the existing ruling class in that country pretended to buckle. It's kayfabe.
There are Marxist theories that fail too but that's why ML tests and refines itself and develops over time, and it's why communists were able to apply these theories to successful revolutions in much of the world including China with 1/6 of the world's population, and it's why Trotskyism is junk science that rides parasitic on the MLs.
I'm kind of rambling but fascism also takes the form of a political commodity and emerges in commodity-driven societies, which I think is very important and is essential to understanding it. Fascists "buy into" fascism – being in the Nazi rally is a way to express oneself and one's identity which you see reflected back at you but without the "right" to express yourself: only the opportunity to do so in a fashion in which you in fact have no agency, and in fact did not determine what that identity even is. This is a form of ideological production based on the aestheticization of *depoliticized* politics, and fetishizing kitschy communal identities as a way of masking the commodity structure. It's the ultimate kind of commodity fetishism. The goal of the left is to break out of the commodity form as a structuring force.
From what I've heard from people who deal with fascist deprogramming IRL, they recommend a several-year cooling-down period where there is no engagement with politics at all. You have to think of these people as like former ISIS fighters. Do not allow them into your groups unless they have been out of that scene for awhile – it's not worth it and these people are dangerous. Fascist groups also tend to attract psychopaths and manipulators / abusers.
The Soviets of course had a blunt way of doing it which was to shove 'em in reeducation camps. But yeah someone is just "oh I'm a Nazi" then a week later "oh now I'm a communist" is probably going to be fucked up in a lot of ways. Because this is Zig Forums and most people on Zig Forums are these fucked up people, it seems like they're the "natural" people to recruit but it's not so.
That's a long ass time and this is why I think counter-recruitment should at least be an option for members who want to leave a hate group. Granted I never believed in the muh joos shit but the way nationalism is built into people from the early age in the US tends to leave people having some pretty fucked up views later in life. I do agree that there needs to be some de-programming but it all varies on the situation/individual on how long it will take or if it will even work. As a ex-nationalist/fash/rightard I truly feel that a lot of rightists are lost on ideology. Some of them can get out but once they go down the "Nazis dindu nuffin" rabbit hole I say it's a waste of time to even talk to them.
Anti-intellectualism is intellectualism for these fools.
Pretty much the only reason I left Zig Forums for Zig Forums is because yall made waaay better arguments and had reason. Don't be dogmatic like fascists and exclude everyone who believed in retarded things but in the end it's all relative.
are you that annoying eugenics poster by any chance?
Well I agree and should clarify a few things. I'd also like to hear more about your experiences. Were you ever in an IRL hate group? First I'd note I'm talking about people who work on these issues in IRL groups which is different from an internet board and I am really talking about hard fash people who were part of neo-Nazi organizations.
Like you're involved in organizing a communist or socialist group and someone who was in the local neo-Nazi curbstomping and nailbombing gang decides to "convert" then you've got to kinda think about encouraging him on his new path but also telling him to take it a bit slow and easy here. Like I'm not saying don't talk to them or don't try to help – I have actually met former Nazis personally who think total cutoff is a bad strategy and they don't believe that would've helped them. But in terms of organizational roles in socialist groups there should be a cooling off period and some taking it easy for a bit, I think.
I think there has to be some leeway too on case-by-case basis. I think there's also "flux" like this subject in the OP and that is potentially scary.
I've seen extreme cases where people are like "between two worlds" in a way. Like someone shows up in a socialist group, and someone stumbles across his social media later, and there's material glorifying mass shooters and Nazi shit in addition to left-wing stuff at the same time. Of course people like that are sending off warning klaxons like crazy and you wonder whether this person is dangerous, there's definitely some mental illness involved here, etc. There are so many liabilities involved. But I think over time, people can snap out of things like that, and can become to be accepted.
It's like the Tarrant guy who shot up that mosque. If you had the same person who just swapped out the symbols, he would be extraordinarily dangerous to have around, and shouldn't be allowed to stay around. It also so happens to be that neo-Nazi groups often make a point of recruiting and weaponizing guys like him.
I have seen a case where a socialist group kicked out a member, who was a trans woman when they found a bunch of Nazi material on her social media, and she tried to apologize and explain, and it was the most disturbing story. She had been living in this dependent relationship with another trans woman who was a Nazi who also had a boyfriend who is friends with these top alt-right people in the United States, going to their conferences and getting pics with Richard Spencer and all these guys, and this guy had raped her and would basically chase trans women, abuse / rape them and try to convert them into Nazis. I swear this sounds crazy but this is true. She managed to escape that situation but these socialists were like woooooah okay lady … slow down for a minute … it's good you got out of that, but you need actual professional mental help here and should focus on "real life" stuff for a bit and probably shouldn't be throwing yourself into another radical cause – like "we're a political activist organization and not a mental health support club," basically.
Anyways I don't want to be dogmatic but there are a lot of real problems and issues to deal with, and you have to measure risks. And it's like, what are we set up to do? Is the point of being a socialist to clean up all this debris caused by capitalism or is to change the world? And how do we accomplish that when we've got the equivalent of trauma victims walking in the door constantly and how do we deal with them? I don't want to say I have all the answers or actually know how to deal with this.
This sounds so fucking /pol.
eugenics is the true ruling ideology.
Good post, comrade.
We have to distinguish between fascism as a form that the Bourgeois state takes and fascism as an ideology. Actually this is precisely where we run into some problems. Because as has been pointed out a million times, fascism has no coherent ideology, besides maybe some of the barest skeletal elements, which have to be there in all cases to justify the existence of the fascist state.
The best definition of fascism imo actually begins with the state structure, not the ideology. Fascism is the rule of the bourgeoisie through dictatorship, as opposed to liberal democracy. And this rule, to sustain itself and project power inwards or outwards, has to mobilize whatever social forces it can to have some kind of a mass base. And the social forces it selects for this are the ideologies and movements that are most conducive towards these goals. Such social forces should be malleable, vague, mobilize as large a number of people as possible without endangering the Capitalists interests, jackpot if they are also strongly anti-communist. Therefore these ideologies can take all kinds of forms: religious, ethnic grievances, general reaction, they can have social-democratic elements, conspiracy theories, nationalism. Here we find the 'blank slate' element of Fascist ideology. All of the above things are great, because they are almost meaningless and can be used for whatever purpose, usually class war and imperialist aggression.
So the definitional structure that i would propose for precision is DotB through open repression-→ needs a mass base –→ mobilizes potentially all kinds of different social movements except the radical left—-→the emergent ideologies are without any consistency or core, pure aesthetics.
This is not meant as a causal chain, all these things happen simultaneously, but this is the best definition starting from a class analysis.
It is not, shut up about it already i beg you
again, eugenics is the true ruling ideology, and the implied core of "fascism". if you understand that, and understand that eugenics is and can only be a world system, much of modern history makes far more sense. "fascism" is just an aesthetic form. eugenics doesn't allow for ideological pluralism in any meaningful sense.
I remember you. Care to make your case with some detail, maybe explain what makes you right and us wrong? I'm curious to hear your argument.
eugenics is actually pro communist, retart
the current crop of the elite opposes eugenics because they want to maintain a monopoly on all of the good genes
but providing eugenics and CRISPR cas 9 to the global proletariat that would increase Autism Level and agreeableness and cooperation which are almost wholly based in eugenics would trily lead to a more egalitarian society, therefore Communism
you again, can you at least define eugenics and provide evidence for your claim about this being ruling ideology, because 20th century eugenics got scrubbed, it's both scientifically refuted and socially discredited.
not an argument
it is neither
the elites practice eugenics among one another while encouraging dysgenics for the masses
I don't really care to go into sufficient further detail here, but the reason you see just about everything under the sun being called "fascism!!!" is because people don't really have a word for the ruling ideas. "eugenics" itself is an ill fitting word, since many of its ruling concepts don't really relate to genetics or biology, but the movement bearing that name is where you really start seeing the old aristocratic notion of divine right fading in favor of something more materially grounded.
=The Supreme Court has never expressly overturned Buck v. Bell. =
The problem is "ruling ideas". Ideas don't rule, classes rule. Ideology is a tool of class rule. Eugenics, to the extent that it DOES exist as an ideology nowadays (which isn't much), is only a tool of ruling classes, and they could just as well be opposed to eugenics and still be in charge.
class itself is an idea, though. the only things that actually rule are materially existing actors and forces, that is people and the forces of nature itself (and people themselves are nothing more than a force of nature, processing and reacting to stimuli). so far as ideas can be reified, they really do rule, but for this to rule in a very direct way requires regular and systematic application of force. this means that the rule of ideology is only possible in the conditions where strong states can technologically exist and exert force, and such power could only be realized in the modern security state. once that was technologically possible and the basic infrastructure built, that's exactly what happened, and you can see this as a gradual process throughout the 20th century, with upheavals and revolts. by 1970, the struggle was over, and that's about where we are today.
like i said, "eugenics" is an ill-fitting word, because we don't have a well developed language for the 800lb gorilla everyone is deathly afraid of, and conspiracism is encouraged among the populace to keep them chasing after each other and after phantoms.
I went to a Confederate statue rally on the right-wing side. I did it to "own the libs." I wasn't with a hate group but I went with a couple of my more conservative friends at the time. Mostly just old boomers and some League of the South people who didn't really get along with anyone, huge turn off personality wise. There was one ardent neo-nazi who keep shouting racial shit at everyone. The only semi-reasonable people on the right are some of those militia/prepper folks but they are insular and protective as fuck. Not to mention a lot of former military and LEOs. After the rally was over I went home and started to reconsider my Zig Forumstard beliefs. This was before the whole C-ville incident.
Some people in my local socialist scene knew who I was, some didn't. I went to some meetings and socialized with lefties and after a while they thought I was alright not alt-right (ba-dum tsh).
Agreed, Building trust takes time and if the organization is to succeed it has to figure out an effect role for ex-fash. Putting them in the front lines is a bad idea but they can always be used for support/intel/transport etc. It definitely did take a while and I agree there should be a cool-down period. I assume it varies for person to person. As time marches on I realize my case isn't as bad as some make it out to be but I'll let yall be the judge.
For example, I think that neo-nazi fucker I met shouldn't have been let around anyone vulnerable like refugees or some people, much less than the regular populace. Isolation can a useful tactic as well. It's standard community defense.
I still feel like that from time to time tbh. and I still have some friends who mock my alt-right past by hey we all have a journey in life. They cool tho all banter aside
This is why theory, discipline, and socialization are important. One does not merely flip a switch and change. It's a dialectal process that takes time and energy. This breadtuber clearly had no discipline and should take time of the internet as communities like Zig Forums can socialize people with some pretty toxic values
Agreed, right wing extremists target vulnerable and alienated individuals. These people tend to be very isolated which is why they seldom reach out to groups but the threat of infiltration is a very real possibility. Granted I've never personally heard of a successful right winger infiltrating a group because they have a tendency of announcing their presence really quick as they tend to lack proper socialization in most cases. I am actually really fortunate to come from a decent (albeit racist) family and had friends to rely on as a support group. A lot of these rightists don't have support systems which is why they turn to hate groups to gain a sense of belonging.
Whew lad. Right wingers have no sense of solidarity, it's all hierarchy and abuse. Anyways I'm glad they got out.
I went to my friends and family for support. I was mostly confused and mislead about politics which is why I looked into socialist groups in my area and reached out with them.
I told my story on this board a couple of time but for personal reason I'll just keep things anonymous for the time being. Call me a retard but this is my story.
Here's a video though if you care to know the specifics of the event itself. Rightwing self-ownage incoming
Hell I know that feeling. For example, I never seem to hate alt-right youngsters like other socialists do. I simply can't hate them because from the moment I understand them (and I do because I was like them) I can only feel sadness for them, in a sympathetic way. I still would like to reach to them and help them get out of that crap. All of this sounds faggot as fuck but it's the way the whole thing feels. At the same time, I know no solidarity bounds could appear in that environment, only hate and paranoia; we were all devoted not to our peers, but to an illusory image of a perfect and idealized and lost community. Solidarity and kindness can't exist there, unlike in the left. But then again, I never feel at home in those circles. I don't know. It's also related to the internet and imageboards; they seem to be the only people I can call my own. But at the same time, they're not real people, just countless anons with whom I'll never talk IRL.
Yes it is. And is certainly dialectical in a social sense. It's a whole new process of socialization that requires both personal and individual will and a proper environment to re-socialize you as a productive individual.
20th century eugenics is scientifically refuted.
i asked for a definition, and some legacy legal crud means little.
Chomsky argues this. basically says that chattel used to take care of their slaves, and now since workers are renteded, porkies don't give a fuck. I believe there's several videos where he mentions this. (not defending Chomsky or this particular pont, just pointing it out).
good posts. fortunately our group doesn't have this problem.
Just cull the Sadists. Fascists arn't all sadists and some are sociopaths.
Essentialism is nonsense, some fascists are able to be reasoned with, some arn't. When the time comes, defend yourself and protect against counter revolutionaries.
The eugenics poster is pretty stoned on essentialism right now.
Do I need to cite every single forced sterilization law and statue in America to make you happy? The very existence of Family Court (which started existence as Eugenics Courts before they were rebranded?) Pretty much every principle of the American education system from grade school up to the university system?
Eugenics was never "scientifically refuted", because the ideology itself has no basis in anything scientific. It starts from very clear, fundamental claims about human nature and how society ought to be organized. The science involved is purely about finding a justification and, more importantly, producing an effective apparatus to implement its policies. Ideology by its nature cannot be scientific, and it cannot be refuted through scientific processes. That's not what science does.
When a model presented by eugenics is attacked as irrational, the system simply adapts and finds a new excuse, and another, to preserve the core, absolute requirement of permanent human hierarchy; and of course, old paradigms do not die easily. The principles of the school system and the hierarchy it perpetuates have not changed in any significant way since the end of WW2; the only great divergence is that, instead of producing large armies of potential laborers and soldiers, neoliberal schools have just openly thrown away most of the population as useless eaters and doesn't particularly care where they end up, so long as they remain locked out from any meaningful political or social role whatsoever (with the lowest orders explicitly barred from even being exploited by industry, except as perhaps prostitutes or the lowest of lumpen occupations).
Sorry, but we need to be extremely suspicious of ex-fascists, if you truly repudiate your former views, you should understand this, being a fascist is a crime against humanity, one cannot issue a handwave apology for that level of treachery, you will have to prove yourself more than other people.
Some anarcho-guy who had some spicy takes.
He said black people had it better under chattel slavery and that it is okay to fuck 11 year olds.
Oh bullshit, there is nothing "essentialist" about it. You're just equivocating and trying to say that someone who openly wants to kill me, who has killed people like me and has continually acted on threats to terrorize me, isn't actually trying to kill me. I'm not going to reason with such people as if there is any possible coexistence, or that they'll change their mind if i give a moral or intellectual argument as to why they shouldn't. It has never worked once in my life, not for me or anyone else, and no fascist would ever leave the movement for that reason. The same goes for anyone who believes in the principles of eugenics of any sort. It is a system that cannot be reasoned with, and there is no mutual coexistence with it, because that is a basic feature of the ideology.
Every ex-fash in this thread has shared their rationales for joining and leaving the movement, and not one of them were convinced because you were able to impart to them the right, good ideas of the immortal science. It has almost always been due to the inherent structure of fascist movements themselves, and how the leaders of fascists quite openly hold their followers in contempt. If those people are going to finally get that and leave, great, but I'm not holding my breath. On average, these people, like people in general, are followers who are so accustomed to self-debasement that they don't care when their leaders are obviously using them and laughing in their face. A good number of these fash are sadomasochists, and you said yourself the sadists need to be culled. I don't think people join fascist movements without having some element of sadomasochism in them though, the ideology and aesthtetics are incredibly sexualist and fetishistic and that's where it makes its appeal to the lizard brain.
100% Based and redpilled sir, too many "leftists" on this board try to be the "cool leftist" the leftist that's "not like other leftists", like people on here actually try to appeal to people on Zig Forums, the vast majority of people on Zig Forums will need to be shot or imprisoned, they are not our friends, and we should not refrain from showing our open hatred of all of them.
Good post and I'm
A lot of fash are violent defeatists which is why they turn to reactionary violence
Polite sage for db faggotry
lol this is leftypol dude, we don't try to appeal to /pol but if we actually say things against the liberal variant of idpol, something that /pol would surely agree, well, i'd say that's in the rules of the fucking board. It's the board spirit. You don't like it? Go to tumblr or reddit, idk what you pretend
well this is entirely true, it's certainly not with reason that you convert a fash
You’re a faggot and a traitor
hi are you new?
I mean this is fucking Zig Forums
Let the puritans purity spiral
literally read the rules of the board
did you arrived here two days ago?
There’s nothing wrong with fucking eleven year olds. Christians and feminists are the one’s who raised the age of consent to its current sky-high position. Stop being spooked
Jesus Christ, fuck your faggotry, if you’re utterly obsessed with appealing to people that’s entire known rule of warfare is death and destruction to all communists you’re a fucking traitor, full stop.
You think Stalin wouldn’t have you shot for so much as sympathizing with the fascist dogs? You think any other revolutionary leader wouldn’t put you in detention for that shit?
Lmao, any revolutionary would’ve shot your ass for suggesting colluding with Nazis is preferable to literally anything
Back to >>>/fascist/ with you.
Nah I prefer here. Zig Forumstards are insufferable
You can go to r/whatever
You should be put in a camp
Idk bro sounds pretty fash lmao amirite
When the lines are drawn you will quickly run back to your fascist buddies. Your material conditions will dictate it. Only privileged whites would ever turn to fascism in million years
That is yet to be seen liberal
Except it already has been seen
Just with the very idea of your material conditions/privileges as a 1st World white person being threatened you found yourself alongside the fascists, with only the idea of losing what you had you chose a genocidal, autocratic, anticommunist ideology.
Why would we believe you wouldn’t do it again when shit really hits the fan? It’s one thing to talk the talk when shit don’t matter yet, it’s another to hold to it when the mask comes off, if you were already fash once why would we think you wouldn’t turn on us in the very end?
You’re quite obviously petty bourgeois and as soon as the going gets rough you’ll be hiding behind the jackboots to save you from the “mobs”