nytimes.com
A 69 year old anarchist was killed attacking an ICE detention center in Tacoma. Press F to pay respects for this brave comrade. May he rest in power.
Though, of course, we only consider such attacks hypothetically good and would never advocate actual violence against the state. And without disrespecting his memory, this could have been done, hypothetically in a fantasy scenario, in a much more effective way.
Other urls found in this thread:
willemvanspronsen.carbonmade.com
youtube.com
thecharnelhouse.org
twitter.com
americanaffairsjournal.org
twitter.com
he would have accomplished more through a steady sabotage campaign. like sneaking up on vehicles to remove valve stems, messing with their communication lines, making false reports on places where no non-citizen workers are employed, etc.
hypothetically speaking.
F
F
F
him name was Willem Van Spronsen
I'm kind of torn on F'ing the guy, tbh. His whole planning it seems was to get there and fuck shit up. Even for terrorism this is lame.
It was essentially suicide. He went there to die, and in doing so make a statement.
F
Again, with the lowest of efforts he could have made a much bigger impact
I'm not gonna brainstorm further in his stupid place because I don't think that terrorism can become legit class politics. What I'm trying to say is that this dumbfuck chose a moral (and not strictly class) issue to die over and he did it impulsively and not by planning.
For fuck's sake, even the Russian nihilists represented an ACTUAL however slim threat to the Tsarist regime. At least they made the fucks tremble. Attacked vital infrastructure, etc.
no F from me
Word is he was setting empty buses (for transporting migrants to the camp) on fire
Killing two camp guards would have had more overall effect than destroying property. At least it would spread fear in their midst. The social media will spin the usual "dumb anarchist attacks object" meme and that's it, folks.
What really is stupid about all of this is even in his terrorism he wanted to remain the morally superior anti-fascist WHEN he believes that these are basically nazis he is attacking. Just make up your fucking mind, already.
No, because unlike Starbucks windows and trash cans this object had a practical and symbolic meaning
I know, for us. But for the memester right? If he had killed two guards the alt right probably would have made some kind of memorial protest for them, that could again be opposed (maybe even by a fellow terrorist if you get my gist), and so on. But again, I consider terrorism to be a retarded tactic and I'm not here to think for them.
This nigger from pol knows exactly what I'm talking about.
he would have been more useful if he spilled some nails on ICE's utility roads
Maybe Mao was right. Maybe reading too much is unhealthy.
Nah, fuck it, F from me.
His theory was fucked but his heart's in the right place.
Care to explain what's so astoundingly great about this shitty analysis?
That they get that terrorism is about fear and this guy failed at it? That Trump will most likely tweet about this tomorrow or even use it in his campaign? That this whole ordeal was incredibly childishly planned and executed? That overall their side will profit from this and not ours? That the ICE guards are probably feeling a moral boost after this, seeing the faggy fag fag fail miserably, defeated so easily? That for many the initial response was "it must be a false flag" because so far the right was associated with terrorism? That ultimately this whole awful ICE thing is about something that DOES in fact hurt American workers, creates more racists, etc.
That one saying "you're not hard enough for this fight" is completely correct. If you chose to die by terrorism what the actual fuck is keeping you from doing ACTUAL damage over SYMBOLIC bus torching? Let me tell you. Its noodle arm soyfaggotry, pure liberal moralism, that's what. A pussy. And Zig Forums will come out a winner in these situations because they dare to call the dude with this childish lingo conveying the basic truth to many, you F'ers politely gloss over.
Dude fucked up and fucked up bad. He did more damage than good. He chose a shit tactic to begin with and he even managed to do it wrongly.
You F'ers are deranged. There will be no page dedicated to Willem Van Spronsen in the book of class struggle, of our martyrs. A fucking sold-out union leader did more for the workers in his life than this clown did, and you guys know it well.
This is the US, we have more than enough shootings to not care much. It doesn't take a big brained boy to see he evidently failed in a multitude of ways, but it won't matter in the slightest past maybe a week of memes and shit, just like all the right wing attacks that have actually killed innocents and shot up mosques haven't fundamentally changed much. The violence is going to heighten either way as the contradictions of capitalism heighten.
Imma be honest here, considering how ubiquitous the whole "DRUMPFFKKK IS LITERALLY HITLER AND ICE ARE RUNNING LITERALLY DEATH CAMPS WHERE BABIES ARE GASSED EVERY DAY GUIZ!" horseshit is at the moment, this guy gets points for being one of the only speds who actually seemed to genuinely believe this shit enough to put his life on the line instead of just cynically spewing calculated atrocity propaganda for political capital while never believing a word of it
This is why the left in northern countries is a minimal threat since it's pure slacktivism and as long as there is no risk, it's basically a hobby used for them to feel as if they are doing something with their lives while they mooch off mom and dad. In southern countries lefties are actually somewhat dangerous and the most militant ones will eagerly put you in a wheelchair if they think you're a fascist enemy of the cause.
He had some nice art
willemvanspronsen.carbonmade.com
Thing is, again, why not do actual damage? Why not fuck up infrastructure around the detainment center to make it harder to use it or, if you're that determined to kill random fucking officers, why not just fucking snipe some of them?
Cue the circle jerk from the twitter chuds
Likely because he wasn't the most bright, or he was looking for a functional suicide. Like I said, he would have done more by spilling nails on the roads.
Of course there has been viable leftist sabotage like homemade caltrops on utility roads, all manners of vehicle sabotage, sit ins, that kind of stuff. It's not uncommon knowledge either, so I can't imagine he didn't have those as ideas and opportunities, thus he likely decided to do it as a kind of suicide by cop thing.
Also, individualist terrorism accomplishes nothing. Any individual ICE officer is replaceable on the institutional level, it wouldn't accomplish much really. If you want to actually interfere with their operations, it's sabotage or mass action stuff.
how many pim tool videos will this generate? i'm gonna say four.
back to
faggot.
This guys gets it. Look, I understand that Van Spronsen went out in a way that I wouldn't endorse. But I can't change the past and won't bother shitting on him for it like this guy . If you really want to make a difference, teach people the right way of sabotage and quit whining.
Real Bakuninite hours
His name is Willem Van Spronsen.
This is your fate, leftyscum.
Dying to free people in concentration camps? Beats shooting some innocent churchgoers or high school kids and killing ourselves like fucking faggots, rightoid baboon
You're out of your mind.
Toddler felons and baby felons?
I smile, chuckle, and shake my head.
A felon is whomever the government wants. Many people detained by the ICE aren't even "illegal" immigrants, but have arrived to the United States to apply for asylum, which is their legal right and exactly in accordance to procedure. The US has however failed to fulfil their part of the bargain by not having enough capacity to process all applications within a sensible time-frame, nor having sufficient facilities to keep track of all applicants without having to lock them in warehouses and under bridges with little to no upkeep.
He's no Chris Tarrant
Anarchists used to (attempy to) kill aristocrats like that ferdinand more tha a century ago, this was better praxis.
Ofc, he's not a national treasure.
The Black Hand weren't anarchists they were ultranationalists.
This is no good anons you need solid kills and of the core.
Is this the farce version of Propaganda of the Deed.
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I mean I agree with you that it's ineffective and there are ad nauseum reasons why this is a bad idea, but you really shouldn't care what Trump, Zig Forums or the bourgeois press says about anything. Like if there was someone down at the send of the street huffing glue and talking nonsense, I wouldn't base my politics on "what will the guy huffing glue and talking nonsense at the end of the street think about this?" Bourgeois propaganda is like huffing glue all the time. Stick to the theory and try not to get distracted.
You know where this kind of thinking leads?
1) youtube.com
2) thecharnelhouse.org
engaging in fruitless debate with reactionaries because otherwise you look like a pussy is unironically the highest expression of 'noodle arm soyfaggotry, pure liberal moralism'.
a proper communist does not strive to look good within the terms of an specific issue but rather to set the terms themselves for the discussion in question
a Rojava YPJ-lover too. Not surprising.
When has this ever worked?
John Brown and his group managed to infiltrate and take control of a federal armory. The only part they fucked up was not capturing the train. After the train fucked off, the only way out of the armory was through town. After being alerted by the shooting from the failed train-jacking, the townsfolk held Brown and his forces inside the armory for at least 6 hours, until an Army Captain and a train full of armed railroad employees showed up. In the end, A company of Marines, under the command of Robert E Lee for reasons I still don't understand, assaulted "Fort Brown" and captured or killed everyone involved.
tl;dr: This crazy motherfucker got closer to success than most people realize.
Anarkiddies fail once again. How embarrassing
Damn the bootlickers fuck them over in the end
What kind of porky cucked idiot falls over themselves to denounce a guy who dies fighting against concentration camps because he did it badly?
Commit rope neck you fuckin goon
kys liberal
Yes because if you dont denounce something it follows that you must be an agent provocateur encouraging it.
That's the only options.
Denounce
Support
You cant simply observe it for what it is and tactically avoid value judgments on it.
It's a hair brained tactic that you understand what motivates it but see its tactical failings.
It doesn't deserve your moral condemnation.
this tbh. criticism is good, denouncement and bitterness is unnecessary
Siding with multinationals and helping import cheap labor to own drumpf
Boomer AND anarchkiddie
I expected nothing less
Doesn't evrn matter because it hardly seems to have hit the news cycle at all.
tbf it's capitalism that's causing migration
Not only that, but the ruling class is hardly divided on this question. Actually freeing all the jailed migrants and legalizing them would create upward pressure on wages and the ruling class certainly doesn't want that.
yes mass third world immigration is a direct result of porky wanting people to work for less than minimum wage
(me)
To clarify, I was talking about things like crime and natural disasters being made worse by capitalism. That stuff forces people to flee.
What makes you think they wouldn't just push down everybody's wages and just kill the succdems pushing for further reform?
Shit theory but it tugs at me heart.
Pity F.
This tired fucking argument. Capitalists want selective immigration and porous borders with desperate refugees able to get through every now and then. They don't want open borders for anything other than capital, they don't want easy visas or citizenship so that migrant workers get protections. They want a well managed trickle of disenfranchised surplus labor, not a steady flow of labor with full rights and naturalization. This especially applies to the US. In Europe it's similar but they seem to be purposely creating a racially distinct underclass to undermine existing working class protections – that's the effect, at least, but the solution to either of these isn't to consider fellow workers invaders or competition, I don't know why this isn't immediately obvious to internationalist communists. Lenin fully supported the embracing of and solidarity with migrant workers, and foresaw that imperialism would only engender more of this kind of migration of the proletariat. Just because there's some overlap with obnoxious radlibs doesnt mean you should condemn refugees of imperialist wars and economic sabotage in favor of something as absurdly reactionary as closing borders to these people for some socialist autarky questionable even as an ideal that isn't nearly on the horizon regardless. That's purely reactive idealism.
How would they just "push down wages" in this scenario? They don't have a lever that says "wages go up" and "wages go down."
Basically effective demand is low, so the only way to maintain economic growth right now is via wage suppression. Inflation is low. Now let's say rising wages causes inflation panic and then an equity crash… and structurally low interest rates have no room to go down… well… KABOOM. No more lending. Capitalism stops working.
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By increasing the supply of labour? Are you dense?
My focus is on marxflag poster's
and my "citations" reflected upon where this thinking leads. It is extremely rare that radical leftists hit the media, especially in the US. Instead of ignoring or being hostile to such an opportunity we must embrace it – not the bourgeois press, mind you, but the chance to bring actual communist critique to the broad public. Willem Van Spronsen (WVS) missed this opportunity. He could have published anonymously a youtube vid, a manifesto on a blog, whatever. I honestly don't see how could anyone argue against this.
It is also rather symptomatic of said position that marxflag poster goes on about "glue huffing" lumpens and "sticking to theory" (in the context of explicit terrorist praxis) instead of addressing my actual points.
Who said anything about looking good? Just look at "1) video" I posted. All I want is comrades seriously addressing the opportunity. In the context of that youtube vid, what happened was:
I've read it, it's shit. I like Nagle but she's basically an edgy socdem.
Nagle is an anti-communist and she's selectively quoting Marx in that article for a magazine published by a Wall Street hedge fund millionaire.
this. so much of the left in the northern hemisphere is just self-affirmation to being a lazy couch potato that never gets anything done. whether it's idpol SJWs or tankies/anarkiddies they take these ultra-left positions in every conflict making impossible demands so nothing ever gets done. it's COINTELPRO at its finest.
The labor is already here. Guest-worker programs often have residency tied to employment, which gives bosses leverage over their workers; i.e. you can't organize and it's risky to tell your boss "gimme a raise or I walk." Because if you do now you're in violation of your contract and ICE comes after you.
The whole argument against amnesty in conservative papers like the Wall Street Journal, Washington Times, etc. is that amnesty would increase wages and that's a BAD thing. And because employers pay migrant workers less, wages for all low-paid workers are pulled down. So IMO the solution is pretty simple: you grant undocumented workers permanent resident status and increase the minimum wage.
But I can see why some people don't like that idea.
If you make a lot of babies, when they become adult, they increase the supply of labor, therefore making babies profit to the bourgeoisie.
His last letter to his "comrades," critiqued.
Good critique
Hopefully he’ll do a better job next time.
Sorry, I missed this pic related retarded gem.
He's in nirvana right now, adjusting his chakra.
Porky wants mass third world immigration they make better consumers and drive wages down
Yeah typical boomer professional activist
wow its so bad hahaha
poor guy if only there were a bunch of theory nerds who could go outside and help guide the retardation of others praxis
people who have a lot of time to critique people but who are doing it in front of a choir of like minded already indoctrinated and radicalized similar people
really makes you think that this sort of thing could be avoided if there were good MLs moving anarchists and soft antifa into full radical marxist interrogations of capitalist hegemony
Our real aim should be popularizing theory WHILE evading the production of the split between so called party-intelligentsia and "common folk." I can't believe I'm telling to this to someone posting under a Maoist flag.
I myself would not rule out ancoms as potential successful revolutionaries. To even imply that contemporary MLs are doing much better than ancoms, is an obvious lie. Both camps are fucked beyond belief, especially in the west.
im just a marxist. my allegiance to maoism is from a place of memes and love of chinese shit. my main understanding of maoism was mao's praxis of having the oppressed kill and punish their direct oppressor which i find poetic and cool.
otherwise i havent read mao at all. like i said i just love china a lot and know its history and art culture really well
i think lenin's idea of treating anarchists as philosophical enemies is wrong. in reality yes their theories are bad but just as easily they can be reformed. what we really need is a tactical alliance that would make it easier to indoctrinate them until they are all halfhearted ancoms who could accept a conditional dictatorship of the proletariat or similar centralization of power
the reason theyre so fucking bad is because they deny well thought out structured praxis as if that is productive. it really isnt. they need to budge and accept you need control of the state apparatus to get to communism
Imagine giving a fuck about anyone or anything enough to die over it. I can't get my head around being this spooked.
suicide bombers started as radical leftists
Of course he was a YPJ fanboy, what an idiot
check out the actual spook levels on this one, tho:
The right will benefit from literally anything short of Trump getting caught molesting a child on camera. The entire reason his administration is so effective is that his manchild retardation makes him literally immune to criticism or backlash.
So what if he was a senile anarkiddie retard? What he did was hilarious and he died like a man. A respectful F is not inappropriate.
get a life
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maybe stop posting under that flag?
the overton window doesn't exist
nah instead ill just go read mao
>>>/reddit/
kek, fair point.
sounds like you're genuinely butthurt Trump is in office
He's not an overt warhawk like Clinton so not really, Zig Forumsfriend.
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