What would guys say is the reason for the rise of more liberal sided youtube channels like contrapoints,shaun and philosophy tube and somewhat downfall of old guard leftwing youtube channels like demsoc01,muke and finbol. Did the algorithem intentionaly lower the old guard channels reach becouse of certain more radical politics while promoting breadtube for showing more controled politics that dont necessesarely threaten burgeoi society?
Rise of breadtube and the downfall of old left youtubers
Sorry for puting the same thread 2 times there was weird bug in my internet and the first thread dident show up.
capital's intrinsic selectiveness which favors liberalism
Honestly I never heard about Muke or FinBol before 2017ish. I don't even know from where I know them.
Jokes and weird skits vs. dry rants on shitty mic
I think it has to do with tons of liberals moving to the left and subscribing to a more social democratic outlook. Naturally they will subscribe to channels like those en masse over some guy droning on about theory to a shitty webcam.They may gradually move more to the left, but we don't exactly have many good channels for them outside some stuff like Prolekult.
Prolekult is amazing, best leftist channel we got so far.
I've only watched Contrapoints but I found her videos to be really high quality and informative, and while she talks about serious things she doesn't take herself too seriously.
A lot of these ML types seem to take themselves way too seriously and listening to them feels like I'm being trapped up in the corner of the room by a guy at the party. My views are closer to theirs but they can be a chore. I don't speak Russian but I'm kinda interested in the style of these Russian Marxist channels like "Station Marx."
I might be wrong but these Russian channels seem like they have quality in production more akin to breadtube but their politics are more radically anti-capitalist.
I mean its sorta hard to not talk how the youtube formula promotes channels that can give more profit and arent against youtube's views like most political channels are either extreme conservative or very soft liberals with actual leftists being constantly demonetized or banned out of the platform.
Same can be sayd from twitter with shadowbaning users
Name some examples? I wouldn't doubt it but the general production from the ML types in English seems really poor.
Watch this by comparison: youtube.com
And it's not like these Russian Marxists are getting rich doing this.
Advertising on youtube doesn't usually work for politics and news, so you live and die by patreon bux or other suppport from fans. Trust fund zoomers are way more comfortable with woke liberalism than socialism because of their class position. See my last point below.
Also good points.
Not how it works. The "pipeline" logic doesn't work for the left. Nazis need that to desensitize people to their shit ideas. People come to the left because they have problems or see other people having problems, and they recognize that their current solutions don't work. Which solutions you leave behind to become left is completely irrelevant. It's not a product of your ideology preparing you, but having the rug pulled out from under you when you find out your ideology is wrong. First and foremost being a socialist, a left-wing radical is a realization that you have to fundamentally change the system or build a new one, that you can't just fix this one up. You are not going to arrive at that conclusion from a liberal mindset, and the breadtubers leading people down that path are if anything delaying the realization that the system is fucked down to the foundation.
lmfao op is a muke fag
They don't do full blown skits but have higher production values, with jokes and memes to not make their videos super dry so pretty good and more accessible compared to western marxists.
Also they shit on liberals relentlessly so pretty based.
I didn't say there was a pipeline or that these channels would make them move more to the left. I just said eventually they may move more to the left. Of course that would be the result of material circumstances on not just because of some shitty youtube channels. Fucking kys faggot.
Finbol has had some of his videos demonetized or straight up deleted, muke also had some of his videos demonetized,pierretruedank and batko. The list goes on but the ideologies also vary alot it seems youtube is just looking to get whoever isent a liberal goody2shoes.
Because any real discussion of theory is incompatible with capitalism's need of consumers
Dry anti-marketable theory videos requiring reflection and critical thinking on the part of the viewer is not profitable. Having bite-sized videos with "socially conscious" companies advertising allows viewers to turn off their brain, absorb no anti-capitalist theory, and move on to the next video instantly
Modern breadtube is just a mirror of the gamergate/skeptic community of YouTube with a more "socially progressive" face. Instead of redpilling you into wokeness by quoting some study they breadpill you into wokeness by quoting some counterstudy
It does nothing to raise class consciousness nor get anyone closer to the truth, they are at best training videos for being succdem
People make that argument all the time. I don't really care if that's what you meant. I want to remind people that's not how it works.
You're heavily overestimating how much Youtube cares about these irrelevant af youtubers
Well I think that goes back to what is saying about how people become socialists because they get the rug pulled out from under them. Like some (albeit cliche) examples here is being shit on constantly at work and then losing one's job, or having some kind of mental break about being forced to work a job that is incompatible with any kind of decent value system, being abused by the police, etc. Like it comes about due to direct struggle with the system in some fashion.
It's literally what happened to me, so I don't know why you have to make up this bullshit. I've never been rightwing in my life, but starting out as a left-leaning liberal and ending up a communist is more common than you think.
Genuinely curious, but did you have any direct IRL experiences that might have also contributed to this?
Post-hoc ergo propter hoc. Being liberal doesn't prepare anybody to be left. I'll repeat
You can become left from any political alignment. Being a liberal doesn't prepare you for it.
Liberals are right-wing. Nobody said you have to be a right-winger to become a communist.
Jesus christ you know what I meant you dense retard. I didn't even know what capitalism or socialism were at that time ffs
Unfortunately not, the sole reason why I got to where I'm now is because of the Internet. I mean, I did consider myself a socdem after talking to some people irl, but that's as far left as I would've gotten had I never seeked out socialism online.
The pipeline of people who go from right wing to an actual theory-grounded leftist is essentially non-existent. The people that "convert" are the centrists that rhetoricians on both sides try to sway, they don't bring any avenue for change they just serve to not get in the way when "their" side makes a move.
It's not really the "centrists" either but the jaded and disengaged silent majority. I'm eternally laughing at the people who say "I'm an exception!" The only exception worth going after are the far-right because when we get one of them, it both adds to our people and takes away from theirs. Libtards are generally ineffectual shits who will derail your org with idpol anyway. Some ex-reactionary/fascist is often going to be too embarrassed about their past to talk about social issues.
Muke (who is Breadtube-adjacent btw), FinnBol and DemSoc01 aren't the old guard, the old guard is Jason Unruhe, Calep Maupin, RedScareTV, Libertarian Socialist Rants, etc. - and they have been stagnating ever since a new generation of socialist YouTubers came along who is better informed on theory and doesn't sound like a broken record all the time.
However, YouTubers like FinnBol or DemSoc01 can never become as big as Contrapoints or Shaun even if they ramp up their production value ten times, because they are talking about fringe theory/history that normies don't find attractive. Which is why Muke switched to talk about Jordan Peterson and Sargon, since that culture war bullshit is obviously getting you up the e-celeb ladder. Talking about the Critique of the Gotha Program does not.
I mean, Breadtubers are entertainers more than educators. People watch Contrapoints the same way they watch Ru Paul's Drag Race, it's just stupid fun with an opinionated extravagant character. I mean, if you want to know what happens when quasi-Breadtubers like BadMouse has an more edgy, less normie-friendly stance, check out his East Germany video. The comments are full of liberals and Three Arrows has even made a livestream about it where he "corrects" BadMouse how the GDR was actually really really bad and he got it all wrong. The manufacture of consent doesn't stop with YouTube, the liberal mainstream allows you to talk freely about communism, imperialism, but you can't actually defend a situation where the working class actually won - which is why Chomsky is still invited everywhere and can talk about the American Empire, because at the same time he shits on socialist states.
Because, like we all know, everybody needs to be able to repeat whole of Marx's capital out of his head to be effective. I'm sorry, but the people who actually made any movement go forward and ALSO were big brains was the minority. Perhaps it's an important minority, not going to dispute that, but my point still stands.
Man I fucking hate Chomsky
why do you guys focus on contrappints so much?
I would say that one does not come to communist or any kind of leftism through simply realizing the issues and contradictions of capitalism will never be fixed with their currently held ideology, that would be the equivalent of suddenly understanding a whole field of thought that takes years for people to understand. People understand these issues, and maybe they even know that they aren't getting fixed, but that isn't enough to draw someone to leftism. People are drawn to leftism through communities that both provide aid to the immediate situation, even if they cannot fix the fundamental problems, as well as proposing the abolishment of capitalism and the establishment of proletarian control. This is why America was so insistent on the atomizing design of suburban life, the destruction of the commons and abolishment of public transport,
and the crackdown on entire communities through the CIA-propogated drug trade and the later war on drugs that targeted black communities.
In this sense, the "breadtube" types can be useful in that they act as a form of a gateway community in that they allow people to identify with a solution outside of the existing systems and dissociating themselves from what one could call the political center. Of course, it doesn't take a well-read Marxist to know that socdems will inevitably fail due to bourgeois reaction, and the failure of socdem and other idealist systems is the perfect opportunity for a truly leftist community to move in and offer our solutions to their problems.
I don't but ngl she is p hot
I'm assuming that's because she's the biggest one.
contrapoints is pretty much the queen of the little clique that is the breadtube community. Altought it was hbomberguy that started everything, but he dosent care enough about politics in his youtube so he prefered to become sorta weird mish mash of videogame/movie critic while still being somewhat politicaly active every now and them.
So contra pretty much took the lead as she probably would be the only one to be inflamatory enough to gain mainstream traction with the fact that she is a transwomen going against the alt-right that does rupaul esque skits with high production value.
You know I used to like Contrapoints but she's taken a recent sharp turn into a really GARISH aesthetic that I think distracts from her politics it's like she wants to be a circus costume/makeup youtuber and the politics is holding her back now. Whatever it is I can't watch her anymore and she also presents no new information, I guess the estrogen has finally taken him.
Pretty smart move probably. Get that money, girl!
She didn't talk politics in forever, it's all identity shit
people guess trough statistics that her patreon+video ads probably give her an income of more them 100k a month. that is if we dont include posible payment she gets for going into events wich she has been doing alot lately.
You think politics isn't about identity and has ever been anything but? What do you think people talk about in Turkey? They say they're oppressed for much the same reasons or for being Kurdish, and you have a bunch of other people saying that all these whiney Kurds and other people who say they're oppressed are turning them into Turkish nationalists. Or people say big-city elites in Istanbul look down on "honest" Turks in the countryside who vote for Erdogan, and the urban people say the rural rednecks are a bunch of backwards chud / rednecks, etc. It's the same everywhere.
It's almost like the uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, and everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones.
Politics is actually a minority of her content. It's most gay stuff.
Yeah, it used to be philosophy and politics. Nowadays it's nothing but "muh trans". Which is fine, but not for me.
smh, how far the board has fallen
Sseth is gold tho
You understand that a large portion of leftists here used to be right-wing in some regard or another, right?
Check nearly every "What made you a leftist?" thread in the archive
don't forget absolute stacy Sabrina Fernandez.
Wish we had someone like her in English.
Unironically a fascist talking point/argument.
People need to unironically translate these for non-russian speakers. It would help a lot.
Thanks for proving my point
I've never seen a contrapoints video
When you’ve been told your entire life that Stalin killed more people then Hitler you need to be desensitized to socialism.
What is class?
So, I know Sseth uses a lot of /v/ and Zig Forums jokes and memes, but does he even browse 4chan or is he one of those people who only regurgitate them second-handedly from Reddit?
O I AM LAFFIN
That pic is less of breadtube rising and more of Zig Forums declining due to the spilt.
He seems authentic enough to the whole 4chan memery thing that he doesn't strike me as a redditor. Truthfully he is actually pretty funny most of the time if you are into the old chan humor, he isn't like the neo-boomers over on Zig Forums and /v/ who can't tell a joke without getting angry and ranting about the subject matter.
what the fuck is breadtube and why is everyone calling youtube like this?
Breadtube is the name for the current leftist youtube, it is in reference to Kropotkin's conquest of bread AKA the bread book AKA the college freshman's only theory book
western leftism since the 1960s was a mistake
From the archive 8ch.net
it's a codename for the canned bread from spongebob
A thread I responded to, apparently. I think my comment about the number of ex-Zig Forums posters and fascists still holds in this context:
People tend to write personal stories when they involve drama of some sort, either ideological (from the right to the left) or personal (trauma, or what have you). It isn't very interesting for oneself or others to write about a gradual change from left-liberal to left-wing, so you see the dramatic stories over-represented.
Oh, so you complain about that but not the windows.
The problem is that people are incapable from separating it in their heads and think they're actually learning something.
You're absolutely retarded if you think the popularity of 'breadtube' has been at the expense of muke and finbol lmao
The real old guard I miss is libertarian socialist rants, sure he was an anarchist but he has a special place in my heart
stay that way
If you faggots gave a shit about fucking pipelines to the radical left, violently shill someone like Caleb Maupin, who although he is a dengoid, atleast has the decency to fucking shave.
Why the fuck do they call it breadtube when these people make NO leftist content? They only make REACTION videos to what right wing people do/say. He said she said bullshit.
Yeah and you haven't challenged my point at all, that majority are the ones that don't get in the way when political action occurs, converting them is just a peaceful way of overcoming them as a hurdle, those that don't convert are the ones that take up violence against a new movement. Only the individual can become a proper leftist through their own accord, the majority don't.
Yeah and breadtube does nothing but coddle, it might as well be counter-revolutionary
Don't you know that making videos about defending transsexual Marvel characters is the key to sparking revolutionary communism? Even Mao said so himself.
Youtube has been all downhill since caramell dansen.
doesn’t matter. the only thing that actually turns right wingers left is Zig Forums ironically.
Well my journey to this place started when I clicked on of the first hbomb videos
You underestimate the power of people taking sides in politics (for a liberal we our his allies)
Utube algorithm helps reaction type videos, that’s the main reason
1st of all if we look at numbers i am sure only a minority of anons that have passed from this board were once poltards
But the former poltards have remained cause no real life etc
2nd Zig Forums is just like 5% of the online left (especially in recent years) and 0% of the real life one
Yes the op is a hue fag
Demsoc started around the same time as shaun
And they were anarchist utubers since 2010
I genuinely though contra points was a leftist.
Will do. Any recommendations on how to do it? I'm not at all experienced in translating things.
btw, what should i translate first?
This is true. For me it wasn't theory that pulled me into leftism (that came after) it was riot porn and edgy satire of Stimulator.tv
Then again, I was a meth smoking lumpen until I decided to look for "anarchy" groups on facebook and stumbled into ancom vs ancom debate group.
That was my first real introduction to anything further than the average American overton window.
Now here I am.
I'll never fucking understand why the fuck they pulled stim. What a bunch of retards.
What gave you that impression?
Because of her earlier videos where she shit on The golden one.
Also she seems to (at least covertly) advocate for anti-capitalism. She has a whole video where she puts corporate ceos in lizard outfits. Sure she criticizes Leftists, but, that doesn't necessarily make her pro capitalist.
The real question is "What to you makes her a liberal?"
wtf i posted that asuka
Everyone who's not a crazy neo-nazi would shit on the The golden one.
The fact that she doesn't openly criticize capitalism which is the minimum you could ask from a leftist.
She literally does it also I think saying "capitalism bad" on a naive moralistic stance is the least productive thing you could do with your time.
When I say openly criticize capitalism I obviously mean something deeper than a plain "capitalism bad".
Welcome to the internet I shall be your guide.
She literally does critique capitalism, though. How could you take her videos on it as anything but?
Things don't have to always be so obvious. Being subtle can deliver a far greater message.
No lmao, its because Videos of MLs on Youtube arent high quality. They are very good content wise but cant even compare with Philosiphy tube and contra points
Nah. There were also good moments and good people.
like all leftists became liberals after breadtube. like there are no real leftists. I hate this kind of scepsis.
Some people from RevLeft already had channels like ten years ago. Youtube started in 2005. Hontrapoints gets constant hype from outside YT by lazy liberal journalists and AFAIK donates some of his money to others in the circlejerk who then constantly refer to him nicely like the intellectual prostitutes they are.
I hate this fag so much
Being anti-capitalist doesn't necessarily make one leftist. A lot of fascists can also espouse anti-capitalist talking points when needed. Heck even liberals will humour those disenfranchised with capitalism with some half assed self criticism.
>God, why can't you losers let me have fun with politics? Nobody wants to hear serious discussion. That's boring.
It would just be pathetic, except Shaun being intensely boring makes him a massive hypocrite too.
They're all falling in line I see. The youtube algorithm is just too powerful to resist.