I've noticed Zig Forums tends to adopt ideologies as if a sort of fad or, frankly, as a meme. We've had Hoxhaism...

I've noticed Zig Forums tends to adopt ideologies as if a sort of fad or, frankly, as a meme. We've had Hoxhaism, anarcho-communism/Stirnerism, and now we have Marxism-Leninism/Stalinism as the native meme ideology. They've all tended to go through stages, though, like so:

"Devil's Advocate" Stage: People are willing to defend the meme ideology, partly to troll, partly just for argument's sake, partly out of slight sympathy for the view. At this stage, the ideology has meme potential but hasn't yet become a meme ideology here.

"Breaking Point" Stage: At this stage, the ideology has some actual adherents, but many of the more devoted ones are still in the process of learning and only occasionally challenge the board consensus of the waning ideology. There's a gradual push of the few remaining adherents of the previous ideology out the door in favor of something else, but this something else remains ambiguous until there are more resolute challenges and, finally, the ideology reaches its third stage.

"Hegemony" Stage: The ideology dominates Zig Forums and has established or altered previous consensuses on many issues, though rarely all. There are only occasional challenges to it, and, generally, adherents of the meme ideology are also relatively good posters.

"Runts of the Litter" Stage: Most of the knowledgeable or otherwise intelligent posters have either left this board (or the political left entirely) or arrived at a more stable/non-meme ideology. Those that remain tend to be less able to argue, more prone to stupid outbursts, etc. Ideological hegemony is maintained more through numbers and board history than the quality of the posters.

Based on the quality of our tankies, it seems like we're reaching the terminal stage of "Marxism-Leninism" as our meme ideology. My question is: what do you think will be Zig Forums's next meme ideology?

My vote is for Maoism or something related like Third-Worldism, guessing solely from the sort of posts and leanings of our current userbase.

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This never stopped being a Hoxhaist board.

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Obviously determinism duh.

I will never change my allegiance because I’m not an urbanite bugman

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Not an ML, but marxism-leninism isn't a meme ideology. It is the most popular here and it probably will fade out as left communism and anarchism did when they were the most popular ideologies, yes, but that doesn't make it a meme.
The actual memes are shit like stirner or nazbol, to which the amount of unironic niggas that follow that shit must be next to 0 in this board.

You say Maoism is the next stage. But what is Hoxhaism if not the next stage of Maoism? The Bunkers are come first, the bunkers go last. The bunkers are eternal

Stirner still has value as the ultimate edgelord, i don't think egotism is incompatible with communism. Just depends how you divine what is best for you ego, which is why it really means jack shit.

Stirner's egotism is a take on how to become a Satanist without even realizing it. Perhaps he is even better than a real Satanist and was into the occult? Ego is a bad thing unless you want to play with LHP magick and get yourself hurt. Bugmen like yourself (commies) are not compatible with egotism because that would basically mean that you are something more than a replacable shell or drone.


who's the memester now?

It isn't that "Marxism-Leninism" is in and of itself a meme ideology. It just is a meme ideology for this board, in the sense of "political fad memed to death." I was going to add something about that, but I thought my point was clear, given that anarcho-communism and Hoxhaism also have a history off this board, outside of memes.

"Marxism-Leninism" is somewhat ambiguous, since it was used as the name for the official ideology even after the repudiation of Stalin by Khrushchev. "Leninism" also had a blip of popularity here, ages ago. The MLs on this board constantly post about Stalin, meme Stalin, and defend Stalin, though, so, for lack of anything better, "Stalinism."

i'm surprised there was never a wave of council communists shit posting

Hey I might be high af but check this out.
The challenge of selling socialism to people living inder capitalism is all about branding and how people asses their material conditions.

If you take one look at the things people are posting on Instagram, everything is all highly saturated and pastel colors. No soviet grey raw concrete.
Neoliberalism turns people in to adult babies. Big ol babies. who love rainbows.

So here's the idea. We do a planned economy, but with special care to make everything really colorful and shit.
We can call it socialism with Wes Anderson characteristics ,or whatever.

What do you think?

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the people want pastel colors eh?


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You missed the wave of Bookchin posters, OP. Though they kind of got forced out by the board staff prematurely. I almost got memed into reading Bookchin myself.

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True, I did completely forget about the "read Bookchin" people. I'd say that Bookchinism's development was arrested at a late stage 1 in favor of the anarcho-communism trend, since Bookchinism never succeeded in challenging the board consensus or reaching ideological hegemony, even when "read Bookchin" was spammed endlessly as a meme. Had I remembered it, though, I would have mentioned it in the stage 1 description, as an example of an ideology with meme potential that didn't reach stage 2.


G/acc and lesbianrx will be this board's next meme ideology if you all have any sense.

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degism will be the next meme ideology

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Neo-china arrives from the future comrade! uwu


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The big brain option is to not subscribe to any ideology and just pick what you like from different ones.

The next "meme" ideology that will become dominant will either be Cockshott or Xi circlejerk

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people here were never serious about that.

Unfortunately this was a real fad here.

People are serious about this here now, and those who are are unlikely to change IF they have done their reading.

imo cockshott's cybercommunism has been incorporated into ML here

Yeah probably this, with constant debates about why China has not started cybernetics planning.

There's already Zig Forums and /fascism/ for that.
Zig Forums will always be in opposition, so even Nazbol has way more chance.

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Damn that pics so comfy

Kill yourself you ADHD suffering spastic.

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Well I don't see what reason there is to complain. Stalin's dope.

I have come to realize i am simply an idealist who really likes stalin and so my mind is impenetrable. I view hoxha to simply be apostle of great stalin who himself will surely return one day to shoot every liberal and cast them into the eternal gulag.
It must be, for he knew the kruschevites would betray him, and he let it happen. Stalin must have intended the USSR to collapse, to simply act as a brief beacon. The productive forces of capitalism are not fully developed yet.

ML is probably the most common type of communist current IRL.
Nazbol as a meme was a little bit more popular before, but I think it might come back as an actual ideology.
There were also the bordiga posters
the nihilist threads (we still have them, but without theory)
the sniffing man threads
and anarchists threads lol

also this

Actually, it's Eurocommunism or Trotskyism or even Maoism, depending of the country.

Eurocommunism is about as relevant to socialism as Fourierism

not communism
not a single current, more like fifty

Name me one current that might accomplish something? On large scale there is Juche gang, Deng gang, Castro gang and that's pretty much it. I hope you honestly don't believe any of them will accomplish something. Unironically the closest I see one of them achieving communism is China.

I'm not defending eurocommunism but most of the biggests (self-declared) communist parties in Europe are eurocoms and before that they were all the main ML parties at the time of USSR.

I fucking hope not but I sense a current in that direction. Although it will be amusing to see the board try to reconcile the contradictions of "Trotsky was wrong! You can build socialism in a single poor country!" with "You can't just start building socialism in a single poor country! You have to build the productive forces first by cucking out to billionaires!"

sortition is also having more of a presence

Defending capitalist China is the most retarded shit that tankies do.

Don't doubt the 100-Year Plan


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This board's De Leon phase was the best two weeks of my life.

Dengoidism has already taken by reddit though. And if I know anything better I really hope that this board and r/communism never merge like r/td and Zig Forums did. That sub is straight cancer with it’s Chinese imperialist defense squad.

Non existent.
But I have to agree that /r/communism is bad. I've seen once a guy claim that China should be praised because they have a list of top 50 richest people, and the list has a nickname of a death list. Then we have people who think the soviet famines were literally a fabrication by the Nazis. The sub sidebar says we are against "bourgeoise free speech". The thing looks like one giant parody.

But Marxism-Leninism is a science not a meme ideology….

Mao was a demonstrably retarded politician.


Science is a meme ideology.

Memes aside ideology and personal theory has to evolve. The worst thing that can happen to leftists is to cling to the old marxist-leninist dogma that has been proven to fail historically.

A lot has changed since then, you could go straight to cybernetics nowadays. The main problem with it nowadays is its lack of ability to combat the security state.

Can't wait for the "read capital" ideology to pop up tbh

what the hell is this image?

This board is going to be overrun by nazbol converts from pol, I guarantee it


If anything, we're even further away. Not only is Zig Forums here smaller, they also interact much less with us.

It's from right-wing Hong Kong protest.

Historical note, Howard Scott the technocrat namefag who's been here since the beginning of time's perception of the board ideology in the beginning was that it was omnibenevolent ML with an openness to engaging with any and all anticapitalist ideologies

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This is my wallpaper now, can't wait for my boss to do his monthly computer check (yes he's afraid we're torrenting shit while we work, which is true btw) and not see the statue lmao

I'm turning into a Dengist, Mao went full retard after Stalin died, and I agree with Deng on that the cat doesn't matter as long as it catches the mice.

The problem is that they didn't integrate Cybernetics when shit was escalating

based and dengpilled, see the truth comrade

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It's not that almost everyone changed ideology like they were a fad, it has more to do with a different influx of users leaving and coming as soon as moderation went to shit. Tankies came in, people with self awareness left.

Off to the cancerous land of leftpol with you

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So why're you still here?

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lose mit einem o

Bruh moment

The next meme ideology will be cybernetic Marxism.
Except it won't be a meme. It will be the last ideology of history.

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Truth. I would leave but there's no where else but reddit to discuss socialist politics online. I miss the fuck out of the 2017 period of the board when there would be actual debate with right wingers and anarchists, actual discussion of economic theory (which has almost disappeared) and actually good memes.

Now you can get banned for imperialism for calling out Stalin for cucking out to US imperialism.

why not simply support amazon so that they can accumulate all wealth, fully develop the productive forces, and bring capitalism to a conclusion?

This is what bothers me. I dont think any socialism can last before this, as it requires very strong will on the part of the leader. We see it is possible temporarily, but with out the historical conditions for it to be automatic and self sustaining (just as we can never go back to feudalism now), with out the base line of possibilities to still fall on it with out it being a struggle, it will inevitably collapse.

unironically this. idk why people think they don't pretty much support eachother when you're talking working class folks

Sounds like pic related.
The argument being that Walmart and Amazon have already developed a logistics chain which acts internally like a globe spanning planned economy, that dwarfs the soviet union at its peak.

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People here need to learn to think for themselves. I was an anarchist before browsing leftypol, an anarchist while browsing leftypol, and am now an anarchist still after being away for a time. That's not to say I'm right, I've learned things from this board. Like that the USSR wasn't so bad and at its worse the US is no better. But my anarchism itself was never sufficiently challenged within or without leftypol. In fact, the biggest critique of anarchism I've encountered it has been from within the movement. How exactly am I as an anarchist supposed to build a movement out of pure negation. Anarchists are good at telling the world what they hate and generally less formed at expressing what it is exactly we want to build.

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I like lots of different far-left tendencies. I feel like we gotta get socialism(or something socialist-like at the very least) and then duke it out over which variety we go with.

fuck those tankies, ect that want to eliminate recreational drug use(usually by imprisoning/killing users) tho. that shit reactionary AF tbqh

Anarchism ignores class struggle and Historic Materialism sweatie

Not them, but I feel like there are marxists that are pretty much anarchists and vice versa. I'm pretty uneducated tbh, but it seems overly dogmatic to say there cant be a synthesis.

My impression of /r/communism is that it's either run as the longest-running office gag at the FBI headquarters or it's just some mentally-ill person who feels powerless IRL and roleplays as an internet communist dictator online

I find the ML stuff to be the most interesting for me in terms of reading their writing and history and so on, and I've been looking around for an org to join, but I have tended to hang around anarchists or demsocs IRL and have preferred to organize with them because MLs I've encountered have tended to be… uhh… strange.

Or it's not the people per se but the groups. Maybe I haven't found the right formation yet but my perception is that many of them are frankly just abusive towards their members. It borders on cult-like in the most extreme circumstances and I think this is sad and depressing. I have periodically heard horror stories from people I know IRL who left ML groups where they talk about being treated in the most savage or mean-spirited fashion, and subjected to verbal abuse and so on. I met one woman who left one who said it "literally ruined my life."

If I was right wing (and I'm not), and I wanted to attack Leninism, I wouldn't say "Stalin is a bad guy / he shot a lot of people" or whatever. Or like "oh the poor landlords." That doesn't actually undermine the ideology and might actually give it a fearsome reputation. It's these stories I've heard from former members that I would broadcast, but liberals and the modern right has forgotten all of this, but if you read anti-communist literature from the Cold War, they did know about all of this stuff and really emphasized bringing on defectors from ML groups.

Like I think I get why this happens to Leninist groups and it's because they're trying to follow a theory designed to turn some of the most beaten-down and exploited people in the world into a really fucking scary and mass-scale human weapon, so there's this breaking down of the self and so on. Maoism basically requires everyone be indoctrinated via self-crit because it was designed to allow independent guerrilla cells to operate deep in the mountains of rural China without contact from the headquarters, and they had to know how to develop plans on the fly that would fit with the larger political strategy. The ideology served a specific function and a purpose.

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I dont even understand what you are trying to say

It's all good, except the LARPing Bolshevik historical re-enactment kiddies, who wear a Ushanka, and are obsessed with the aesthetics of the soviet union.

I don't get why internet leftists love brutalism so much.
Maybe you guys are stuck in soulless American suburbs where nothing ever happens and you are dependent on your car and desire something else, but I personally associate brutalism with crumbling European suburbs where also nothing happens (except drug dealing), and you are also dependent on cars (or long public transport routes).
As socialists we should be more ambitious than this. I want 19th-century bourgeois architecture for everyone. An Art Nouveau revival. Social housing units looking like the Hundertwasserhaus. Statues and parks everywhere like in Vienna. Whatever, I want anything but lame imitations of Le Corbusier. Something like Karl-Marx-Hof, why not, but no meme "unités d'habitation" please.

It wouldn't make much sense. n1x is an anarchist and somewhat sympathetic to socialists, but she still want markets to accelerate the multiplication of genders.
G/acc is infinitely more interesting than corporate-backed liberal idpol, but in the end, most people are comfortable with their normie genders, and a sophistication of sex reassignment technology won't put food on their plate, make housing free and so on.

Based. We should have a cycling Capital general tbh. I know there is one on /marx/ but it's kinda dead and Ismael is a filthy Dengist, I don't trust him.

I wish it would be something like cyber-situationism, even if this has the potential to become a huge cringe-fest.

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Brutalist buildings creeped me out as a kid. And a sense of wrongness that I can't quite explain.

Also watching them blow up is cathartic.
I'll probably watch some one youtube right now.

Well a lot of this is just meme stuff, and the crumbliness is what happens when you don't take care of it. I love brutalism though but I recognize it had its time and place. The important thing to really gather from brutalism is to recognize that they're designed to be comfy on the inside and are built from the inside out. Also why a lot of art museums are built in the brutalist style – the emphasis on interior space and form highlights the art on the walls.

Never stayed in Khrushchyovka, but when I visited Honolulu I stayed in this amazing concrete hotel tower and it was quite comfy and dead quiet inside – great way to block the sound. A lot of brutalism in Hawaii when it was all getting built up to service the post-war tourist economy (which itself was enabled by all the construction in World War II).

Brutalism is horrible for the climate though because it uses extremely carbon-intensive methods to produce all the cement.

I see it as similar to gothic architecture. You wouldn't think so but both are really blocky and kind of overpowering and grotesque, and gothic architecture became later associated with the horror genre like haunted houses and so on; brutalism meanwhile is now associated with dystopian sci-fi movies and so on.

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The thing about Marxism-Leninism on this board is that it was pretty much the old BO tried to encourage more of it and purged a lot of the other ideologies a while ago.

brutalism comes from the French word "bru" meaning raw cement.
the main point of brutalism was to make the material used for building visible, to be honest about what it is made of.

the massive construction style produces good noise isolation and a calm subconsciousness because it looks sturdy.

the ugly brutalist buildings where mostly do to economical optimization, and not a inherent particularity of brutalism.

what came after brutalism in terms of building styles was mostly corporate-neutral, which is difficult to describe on account of having little features beyond dullness.

I find your proposal to revive historic styles a bit too much a denial of the future and the new, as in nothing new can be invented and all that is left, is to repeat what has already been done.

I consider brutalism to be the last coherent architectural style and should therefore be the starting point for developing something new, i would keep the material honestly aspect, but include more building materials then just cement, with the rule that it should be visible what material is used, and no afterthought fake decorative add-ons.

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Determinism isn't a political ideology, Tf?


Imagine having an ideology at all.

The core tenets of both Anarchism and Communism are very synergistic and I think having a strict adherence to either ideology is only going to end badly.

Ideally though I think people should take an anarchist approach and not admitting that just makes you a retard.

People should act for themselves and come together out of their own needs and wants; you take what is necessary from any ideology.

Otherwise you are just larping.

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People that think they don't have a ideology are the most ideological.
Insulting people for not agreeing with you isn't argument

Anarchism rejects the dictatorship of the proletariat; not very "synergistic" if one rejects the most important part of the other.
In practice this usually just serves as an excuse to go shopping in the ideological supermarket and make yourself the most special-est snowflake.

Which would make then a situationist bringing then right back into the Marxist stream

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Ideology is kind of unavoidable.
The influences and social pressures acting upon an individual eventually force individuals to develop an ideology, whether they are cognitively aware of it or not.

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fuck off