The idea of false consciousness is one of the most misanthropic and illiberal ideas of the 20th century. It "explains" why the masses disagree with your "analysis" and thus shields you from having to confront the frightening prospect that maybe the masses actually are better equipped for knowing what they want and setting priorities for their own lives than you are.
Of course, rather than confront this sobering prospect and engage in genuine introspection and reevaluation of their ideas, most Marxists are more likely to stick their fingers in their ears and say "NA NA NA I CAN'T HEAR YOU I KNOW WHATS BEST FOR ALL"
If you combine the thing you just said with Marxist analysis, you get Maoist mass line. People are not stupid. They know what their needs are. The problem is, they cannot easily see the big picture resolution to those problems. This is why people have objectively stupid political beliefs. It is our job as Communists to go to the people, find out what they need and what they want, and use our theoretical framework as a means of giving it to them.
And if the people reject your theoretical framework, you get bent out of shape and call them false conscious reactionaries, of course.
It isn't patronizing to say that voting for someone who will cut social security and union regulations is voting against your class interests. It's just objective fact.
False consciousness isn't saying that the masses are stupid. It's saying that the masses have been subject to class propaganda and misinformation and consciously or unconsciously absorbed ideals of the bourgeois superstructure. Also: I don't know why on Earth you think a Marxist would be insulted by this.
Look, when you put it like that it does sound very arrogant from our part, but the reason why their consciousness at the end of the day is still false is because while they have realized there's a massive problem in our society, the "solution" they have decided needs to happen won't solve our problems.
Hating on jews and blaming them for everything is an example of false consciousness. These people understand a lot of the things we have noticed and realize how they're fucking up our world (alienation, actual degeneration of culture, consumerism, etc) but killing all jews and creating an ethnostate won't solve this shit. Also, I will recognize that one of the main reasons for adopting this false conscience are quite valid when you think about it, they're issues that aren't being adressed (or are even dismissed by leftists) and the right is taking advantage of that. That's something we need to work on, and another thing, I personally differ from the standard marxist thought that no consciousness is better than false consciousness, people with false consciousness at least believe there's something very wrong and are willing to take radical measures to fix it, while the no consciousness types are usually the "it could be worse" and "omg radicalization and polarization are so bad" filthy centrist scum type.
If Americans actually agree with their country's foreign policy, then they deserve to be nuked, regardless of whether or not they "know what they want."
Good? Explain this
You write like that moronic Democrat-flag poster in one of the other threads.
When you can't make a real argument, just strawman. The Marxist way.
they certainly are not.
oh look a neoliberal.
Strawmanning assumes you made an argument. Your OP is just emotional bluster. It amounts to "but do you REALLY know better???", which isn't anything more than a restatement of your opposition to Marxism.
Then tell me exactly what I want, since you are a self-appointed expert and you clearly know what my values and interests are and know what my wants/needs are better than myself.
If you cannot do this over a simple anonymous imageboard, how can you reasonably expect to accomplish this in a planned economy?
This is a very bombastic and longwinded way of saying engage in self criticism for failing to conduct mass line work comrade
Unfortunately for you, your OP wasn't about that. It was about false consciousness, a different issue. Central planning is with regards to socialist control of the government, which is to say a socialist society; false consciousness has to do with ideology, mainly under capitalism.
In short, you have no idea what you're talking about. Trotting out two bits of jargon doesn't make you an expert on Marxism.
If you're the absolute state of anti-Marxist intellectuals, no one on the left has anything to worry about.
Ah yeah, Maoism is such a brilliant system. I love having all the birds killed and then having my crop swarmed with locusts. Based.
Nice Facebook meme lmao
and capitalism magically knows what you (an individual) wants at all times somehow?
Your image used a facebook format filename. Dumb Marxist.
Tell me what you think I want. You are the expert Marxist after all, you should understand much better than the free market.
the free market somehow does this? I can tell what people NEED (food, water, housing, etc) but I really dont thing anything (market or otherwise) can predict individual wants. Also, this wasn't even your op.
"False consciousness" is used as a Marxist justification for central planning you fucking brainlet.
So you admit you are incapable of ascertaining what my wants and needs are. But I am perfectly capable of ascertaining my wants and needs and expressing that through the free market.
Why the fuck should I ever let someone like you have control over my economic decisions in that case? Why the fuck should I ever listen to a Marxist about anything ever?
cite one marxist who said that
If you're genuinely interested in learning about the ways in which central planning can account for needs and wants, you may want to read Towards a New Socialism by Paul "Penis Vaccination" Cockshott. if you just want to jack off about how much better you are than communists, >>>Zig Forums is thataway.
False consciousness and central planning are not one and the same issue. You keep conflating the two because you aren't sure where one begins and the other ends. "False consciousness" mainly has to do with ideology; this is not equivalent to the difficulties of central planning.
Lucky you So feed my curiousity, what wants and needs made you express these opinions?
you're implying you cant get anything that's produced under communism. You're also implying that somehow magically, you as an individual can magically create whatever you want under capitalism with absolutely no issue or risks nor any need for investment capital. no one is, what socialist country has ever made direct economic decisions for individuals like "everyone must have 2 toothbrushes and no one can have toilets, anyone who says otherwise can go to gulag" because you're a brainlet
The only thing Marxists "want" to do is provide the proletariat the opportunity to do the things they want WHILE ensuring the economic stability and security of the proletariat in regards to their material needs. Currently there is an inherent antagonism within capitalism which pits the material self-interest of the bourgeoisie against that of the proletariat, and we find this to be a state of affairs which can only apply more pressure upon the proletariat over time and can only inevitably be resolved through conflict as of every system before. The market itself is an unstable and volatile means of distribution, and works more to the benefit of bourgeoisie then the proletariat. We have no idea what your interests are, but we do know what things are materially conducive to human life. Some peoples "wants" are not conducive to the public's needs at large. This is just the reality of the public application of power and violence. Central planning can offer both needs and wants, but no system in existence (not even capitalism) can provide for all your wants. At the very least, central planning can provide the "needs" necessary to cultivate and develop yourself to pursue some healthy goal in life conducive to both yourself and others.
Don't answer a question with a question you fucking sophist. Answer the question: What benefit do I have in letting you control my economic decisions when you can't even tell me what my basic needs, wants and values are?
Ah yes, insult people. That will definitely cause them to be more accepting of your economically illiterate ideology.
Address what was written instead of cherry picking an insult. Stop selectively ignoring every argument (although you have yet to make one).
I'm out, losers. Have fun jerking yourself over the prole revolution that will never come.
Needs can be defined as services or "states" which are conducive to human life, so housing, food, water, education, economic security and stability, etc.. "Wants" and values can only really be defined by you, though they can be largely shaped your material conditions. Our primary goal has nothing to do with wants, and everything to do with material need. "Wants" should never be the primary goal of a society, especially if those wants impede on the material needs necessary to cultivate human life. And that has less to do with what I "want", and more to do with what will be tolerated by the reality of the material public interest.
You're not going to get a simple answer here, because most (correct) analyses of the economy aren't simple. We could discuss all of Marx here or other relevant economic research, but then we would simply be repeating what has already been said better by the those who originally engaged in such research. If your going to come here and try to debate Marxists, it would have done you well to have read at least one of his major works not the Manifesto before doing so. You call us economically illiterate, but you haven't actually brought up in what way Marx's analysis of capitalism and history was wrong. At least with that there could be a discussion, rather then you engaging in moralist kvetching.
Lol, and you think abolishing property, nations, borders, the family and the state WILL? The only ones suffering from "false consciousness" are you fags, thinking you can fight the Jewish ideology of capitalism with the Jewish ideology of Marxism. You and the conservalibs are like two puppets having a fist-fight–it looks superficially like a real contest, but when you look behind the screen it's the same 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸guy🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 with his hands in both puppets. Why do you think megacorps and billionaires are funding and supporting antifa? Why do you think nationalists (and only nationalists) face repression, censorship, imprisonment, violence and murder, while Communists and other "revolutionary" leftists are coddled and celebrated by mainstream media, academia and government? You think you're attacking the system, but in fact you're defending and perpetuating it. When corporate execs in boardrooms and unwashed red flag-waving students are pushing the same thing (open borders, degeneracy, materialism, etc.), you know something's up. They might not have common interests, but they serve a common cause–the destruction of White nations and the extinction of the White race. As long as the West remains trapped in this illusory (and terminal) dialectic, we will never be free.
Also, think about this, commiefags: the people who are inheriting the earth won't give a shit whether you're a Marxist or Maoist or AnCom or whatever retarded ideology you espouse. All they'll see is your pasty white face, and they'll know (and hate) you for what you are: an enemy. And not just an enemy, but a defeated enemy. And if you want to know how former masters are treated, just look at South Africa. The blacks aren't exactly discriminating between Whites who supported apartheid and Whites who opposed it when they go a-raping and a-torturing and a-murdering and a-land-a-confiscating. It'll be a nasty surprise to see how quickly your brownskinned "comrades" turn on you once you've served your purpose. I just hope I'm around to say I told you so.
^This anons. We have to start planning. Whe have to remove all existing neoliberal "socialists" SUCH AS UNIONS. They are compomised. Getting the membership mailout lists will be a first step. Anonymous could do it. After that we need hard core set ups to start mailing these lists.
It's not jewish. Engels is White.
National So ci alists are allies and included. Need a non-jewish BO, too. The BO is a D&C retard.
Like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Hoxha, Kim Il Sung, Castro, Ceausescu, Che, Castro, Sankara?
What exactly do you think Marx means by abolish? This is just calling Marxism "Jewish" (something which it is not) and providing no argument in regards to its validity. Source? They generally don't, if anything the west has historically funded nationalists and nationalism to combat communists everywhere from South America to Eastern Europe They aren't? Have you even been paying attention to the current election cycle, where the democrats are currently in the process of calling Mitch a communist and throwing socialism as a snarl word against each other? In what way? Communists and capitalists are in no way pushing the same thing, I have no idea which or what "degeneracy" your talking about besides that which can be attributed to capitalism consumerism, and materialism does not mean consumerism. In what way? African communists like Sankara did nothing like your saying, and in fact in his case, stabilized his country and improved its conditions while fostering good relations with "white" communists.