What makes communism work

To my understanding, communism doesn't have a centralized government. If there isn't a government, who's to enforce wealth redistribution?

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Items have inherent wealth to individuals. (i.e. food)

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??????
What the fuck are you talking about?

Is food important to you?

lmao are you actually just fucking braindead

Alright, let's see where this goes.
Yes, I like to not starve.

Then food to you carries the property of wealth. With no state, there isn't anyone to redistubute the wealth (in this case food). If someone were to have a lot of food, he has a monopoly on food, and it can't be broken up without a state. The class system just created itself.

Yes.
The state wouldn't even be redistributing wealth in a lower phase communist (socialist) society, except for some welfare mechanisms for the disabled, elderly, child support etc.
No, there is not going to be any individual who can amass any significant wealth when the only way to acquire commodities is by labouring for it. It is only in capitalism, where a capitalist can exploit the labour of thousands of workers that the capitalist can get such a monopoly on a commodity.

If the state did what you said and didn't redistribute wealth in said society, wouldn't classes arise?

How could massive wealth differential come to being if there was no one people worked for? In simple terms, under capitalism you work for your boss. The profits that a company does aren't distributed to everyone in the company. If that took place you wouldn't have people who own billions.

Because in a fully communist state, there would be no one really enforcing the rules of communism. If I were a farmer, what is to stop me from forming coalitions with other farms to effectively create a giant monopoly on food, and in order to get part of my monopoly to feed yourself and your family, you had to work for this giant coalition of farmers.

Also I think we are talking about two different things here. I am talking about full communism with the state being abolished (communism) and you are talking about communism with the state still intact (socialism).

No, how could it? I feel like you have not even the faintest idea what communism is.
Class is defined by your relation to the means of production. There are two main classes in capitalist society; the workers who work for a wage and the capitalists who hire workers and pay them only a fraction of their labour's worth.
Without private property, without the means to exploit the labour of other workers, no one get more commodities than the labour they give to society.
Under socialism I would work 1 hour and for that 1 hour would recieve commodities that took 1 hour to produce (not counting taxes).

Well, first of all I have no idea why you would want to create a monopoly with other farmers. It's rather hard for everyone to agree with that, and neither do we live in some scarcity situation where people fight for food. Not for such reasons at least.

Because in a fully communist society with zero state, what is to stop me from essentially becoming a capitalist. That was my question to begin with. You need a state to enforce the rules of communism.

Communism implies post-scarcity, so there would be no motivation for a farmer to do such a thing. What would they gain if everything they could want is already free? Do you stockpile oxygen? Of course not, since it’s free there’s no point. Communism would only be achieved in a similar condition of post-scarcity for all material goods.

The fact that you do not have any means to exploit the labour of anyone else.

Because when I have a larger labor force, I have more wealth (food) to feed me and those I care about. With this coalition, I only have to share with the farmers I am with, not with everyone. From an individualistic standpoint, the coalition has everything to gain and nothing to lose.

and when will we ever achieve post-scarcity?

The farm is not owned by farmers, this is what we mean by NO PRIVATE PROPERTY.
The means of production are collectivized, not owned individually by workers.

With zero state (people with guns and jails), what is to STOP ME from doing that. There isn't a magical aura to keep everyone playing by the rules of communism.

Fucking people maybe? No one would want to work for some fucking farmer who decided that he wants to get everything. People would pick up a gun and shoot you.

Maybe the fact that you'd be stealing from millions of people? Do you think they'd just allow you to suddenly put a fence around their farm and proclaim loudly that you own it from now on?
You'd be shot dead in a second.

So there is only mob rule to keep the rules intact. How would you stop far-right insurgents from rising?

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Why would far right insurgents rise up?

So you are just going to start shooting people? No investigation, no evidence, just shoot. If you might be far-right, you are dead.


Because not everyone agrees with sharing when post scarcity will never happen.

...

I feel like this quote from State and Revolution is relevant here
Communism will be regulated in a fashion that we may not fully understand at this point. The whithering away of the state is a long term process and will only be feasible when threats of counter revolution, lack of production etc., are no longer threats to the working class.

WAAAAH WHY U SHOOTIN THEM POOR FASCIST INSURGENTS :^( they didnt do nuffin :^🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

So…. how would these people get support if their goal was literally to just hoard wealth? Would you support a guy on the street if he just went "lmao people, let's take over the local farm and give me gibs for the rest of my life"?

It's not about SHARING. Please fucking read what we're saying. Communism doesn't mean we all share, it means we all receive equal pay for equal labour.

They MIGHT be. Your plan is to shoot anyone who you have SUSPICION of being an insurgent?


scarcity = some are starving
join guy's group and take over farm = get rewarded w/ food and a position on the farm
no longer starving

I thought money didn't exist

When was the last time people in a industrial society starved? That's the point of communism, isn't it? That we would live in a something resembling post scarcity society. The scarcity where people needed to pick sides to survive doesn't exist for more than 40 years for most people in the first world.

Then why change it?

I have no plan, because this "what if someone does a bad thing" is so vague I don't give a flying fuck. People will manage it somehow, because it is in their interest to keep in place the communist system that continuously increases their living standards.

Yeah, eventually it wont, so why would someone rise up to hoard resources when everything is readily available thanks to massive increase in production?

I wouldn't know. Why not go towards something which would allow ourselves to free from scarcity that markets produce?

If a drought or crop fail were to happen in a communist country/society, wouldn't the sudden scarcity cause mass famine since they didn't have external markets to get food like other countries would?

and with famine comes the deaths and civil unrest?

Jesus christ you imbecil. Do you think communism is only viable in fucking north of siberia? Yes, indeed. If a massive crop failure happens - be it an socialist or a capitalist society - and there's literally nowhere to get food, which in this case would mean fucking the whole world is swallowed in Armageddon, then yes. I'm pretty sure that would cause to massive unrest, but capitalism can't save the world from a sci-fi apocalypse.

But if a capitalistic country were to have a famine, the people inside would have access to external markets, unlike communists, which do not have them.

I'm also talking about the single country, not the entire world.

You can answer this question yourself. I'm not going to explain it to you.

1. No one believes it is possible to achieve full communism on only a national scale. Communism will be global.
2. Under communism it is possible to put away vast amounts of necessary resources for a rainy day thanks to no market competition.
3. Industrial societies have more or less made famines a thing of the past.

But if communism is global as you say, how would it be possible to coordinate supplies effectively without a central government? If you were to establish a government to handle such things, you would be back to socialism.

Also have you witness road construction?

just keep the state until a solution is found

The network established by the states doesn't go away because the state has withered away. In fact, such a network is a precondition for the state to wither. The state withers because it is no longer necessary.

and you really expect the state to step down from a position of power?

Sure. There are many ways to organize the state that makes it so that it is not a position you desperately want to perpetuate.
Many communists today seem fond of the idea of sortition. You could also make it so that no one may hold office for longer than 5 or 10 years or something. Or make sure government jobs are never paid more than the average worker.

But there isn't any money + explain Stalin and Mao. It seems once they have power, they don't let go.

Then there's even less reason to be a government official. What kind of power do you imagine they would hold in a fully advanced communist society?
The conditions for the state to wither were not even close to being in place under Stalin and Mao. And also, we don't ree at Stalin and Mao here, they were both committed communists despite their flaws.

Control of military and police are good reasons.

Why would there be a military without any capitalist states to struggle against?
Likewise, the police would also be reduced to a minimum or replaced entirely with local self-organized militias with the reduction in crime that accompanies the reduction in poverty. Nearly all crime today is related to drugs and/or money.

Also, I think you severely overestimate the control leaders had over these institutions.

This global commune will be achieved how?

Fire and blood.

But you are anti-war?

I am for class war.

So you are willing to erase every single culture to achieve your commune?

- Eugene Debs

You ask weird questions. Why would I want to erase culture?
Culture will definitely change away from our capitalist culture and towards a proletarian culture. If that's what you mean, then yes, fuck our capitalist culture that has already eroded all culture that came before it.

With the Soviet Revolution, communists have set the Russian culture back to zero. God and Country were removed and replaced with a souless, all-powerful regime who viewed it's citizens as pawns. Followers of Christ were ridiculed & sent to camps, their churches destroyed. Communism was forced onto people who didn't want it, who wanted to live their own lives the way they wanted. Communism destroyed their way of life.

Now to the second part.

I get you are angry with the state of what today's culture is. It is souless, dead, and only used to make profit.
If you look back at the 1950s, what do you see? I see intact families, husbands & wives who truly love each other, and neighborhoods which are clean and aren't filled with garbage (both human and literal). And what do you see in the advertisements? The same.

What do you see now? Broken familes, social degradation, and loneliness. People who are longing to connect with someone worth connecting with. I see people working dead end jobs with horrible conditions because there are more workers competing for jobs. I see social degeneracy and a turn-away from God. And the advertisements reflect that.

I see the death of our American culture.

We have moved from that time to ours.
What has changed?

The Sexual Revolution in which women got the right to vote and to work.
The opening of US borders to 3rd worlders who work for less and don't follow the US's laws and customs.
The LGBT movement / second Sexual Revolution

All these are to blame. How?
The first two take jobs, which create employee competition. When employee competition happens, employers have their pick on who gets the job, which both lowers wages and lengthens job hours, not to mention the removal of benefits. If you want higher standards of living, have the employers compete for workers.

Then the adverts. That involves all three.
Companies adapt: their goal is to sell goods.
With the success of the two mentioned before along with the last, they have new markets they have to sell to, because if you don't, you're a bigot racist nazi. So you as a consumer see these companies pander to the strong, independent women and the homos, as they are pushed by society to do so.

If you want to go back then, to the 1950s / 1960s America, you need to remove women's rights, remove everyone that came to the US post 1965, find God, and put the homos back in the closet.

Congrats, you are an evil racist bigot nazi now if you agree.

Who's behind it? Frankfurt School, which is part of Marxist thought.

I am sorry to say, but this board's revolution already happened, and just now you are seeing the fruit that it bore.

fuck women, minorities and communist whiteys

fuck women, minorities and communist whiteys

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