Baptist General

SALVATION

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The Bible Way to Heaven
youtube.com/watch?v=WDEBz25lGdY

INDEPENDENT FUNDAMENTAL BAPTIST SERMONS

"King Saul & the Old IFB"
youtu.be/FIGpF12snU4

"Feminism in light of the Bible"
youtu.be/ruFnghl4W6E

"Antichrist Bible Versions"
youtu.be/SEXmPB-ksEM

PSALM 23
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.

6 The Lord executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.
7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.
8 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.

10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.

15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.
19 The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.

20 Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
21 Bless ye the Lord, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.
22 Bless the Lord, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the Lord, O my soul.

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Other urls found in this thread:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPqSelVJvoA
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PA2.HTM
textuploader.com/dlrfw
evidenceunseen.com/
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.ii.xxvi.html
youtube.com/user/wordonfirevideo
youtube.com/user/onearmsteve4192
reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/index.html

every denomination does this, especially when explaining doctrine.
i don't understand your complaint.

Someone post the image where it says "What you doing x?" "Just independent fundamentalist baptism"

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The point is that he is taking stand-alone sentences (sometimes sentence fragments) and placing them together to form a doctrine that was never there in the first place

Paul's letters, Revelation, a bit from the gospel… at least they're all from the new testament I guess.

Also, this is what atheists do when explaining why the bible is (insert negative attribute here) or how God supposedly changes from old to new testaments

just to make it easier for presenting, again, every denomination does this, look at any statement of faith or even your catechism.
disagree, and it is possible to take and interpret the whole of scripture consistently without any contradiction to support this view.
(i think you can take and interpret the whole of scripture consistently without any contradiction to support incorrect views too though.)

According to perseverance God will cause a person who has true faith to endure in that faith till the end. Even though it may weaken at times it will never disappear.

Salvation by faith alone
John
1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
3
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
4
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
6
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
7
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
8
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
11
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
12
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
16
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
20
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


OSAS
6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

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Just the verse numbers

Faith alone
John
1:12
3:15-16/18/36
4:14
5:24
6:28-29/35/37/38-40/44-45/47
7:38-39
8:24
10:27-29
11:25-27/40
12:46
14:1-3
16:27
20:31

OSAS
John
6:37/44-45
10:27-29
14:1-3

sorry, but you're wrong on multiple accounts

Go ahead and show me a similar case in the catechism, I'll wait

I always have a mingling suspicion that those quotes aren't literal as you make them to be.
But since you believe they are, then you can please explain:

>And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
Both KJV, even though KJV-Onlyism is a meme.

1 Corinthians 13 is in the context of success in ministry, and gifts of the Spirit. Its not about salvation.
James 2 is similarly about demonstrating your faith to others by the fact that true faith does always produce good fruit in a person's life.

So yiur just going to throw out verses where Jesus literally says "he that believeth on me hath everlasting life" for two unclear berses that don't even say "saved" or "damned"?

pathetic

also
m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPqSelVJvoA

i was away from keyboard, grabbed this in 5 seconds off google
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PA2.HTM
look at the footnotes

And I'm assuming that you think you've proven something here? If you can't see the differences (of which there are many) between the post I originally replied to and this section of the catechism dealing with relating to God as Father, then there isn't much left to discuss here.

you:
me:
you:
me:

agreed

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...

in what way? it's more like the text of a tract you hand to someone rather than a statement of beliefs.
why not? and is that what was actually done? the meme text ( >>533847 ) had commentary in between the verses referenced.
why is it okay to do it in this context? what's the difference?
what was i attempting to convince you of?
my heart weeps

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What if God decided to lie? ironic question

Or more likely what if you thought it was authentic but it really wasn't because it was for the wrong reasons? That could happen too. It has to be for the right reasons.


Doesn't get much clearer than that.

There are a few things I wish to leave with you before I leave this board semi-permanently, I don't how long until that'll be, but there studies, work, etc I wish to attend and this site is taking a load of my time.
First off in the face of doubt and atheism, I want to have this link at all times: textuploader.com/dlrfw
Although, I admit I that there a few evidences I forgot to add into the list, you can find at evidenceunseen.com/
But where people find most encourage in the faith is by setting an example. So please, the sake for both God and our family share your salt with those in need. If you see someone who's starving in the streets give them some nutriment and liquids. Someone who's having a difficult time, seek to comfort them just Christ sought you first. And if you're questing God, then place yourself in position where you need to depend on Him, fasting helps.

As for the veneration of icons, it's important to note that throughout church history people and councils discourage this action until it became popular within monasticism, but for now I want you to know that it originated with the Carpocrates, a gnostic group. Read section 6.
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.ii.xxvi.html
Which also explains why there are icons in the roman catacombs. The pathetic attempt to refute this by others is the letter of the martyrdom of Polycarp. Know that Polycarp was dead, thus cannot reject any practice of worship towards, so to say he would support this is lunacy. Irenæus is just reporting what happen during Polycarp's martyrdom, no one can truly say he was supporting a practice of worship. Foremost, where Polycarp's martyrdom took place was at Rome, the location Carpocrates was preaching their heresy, therefore one of the locations we should expect to find the "honoring" of saints.

On the Septuagint, if you read about in Josephus's and Philo's works, all that was translated for King Ptolemy the Law of the Jews, which is the first, five books of the bible. Don't fear if anyone tells you that the Jews originally accepted the Septuagint, because in that sense-all Christians do. Of course, the reprobates will say Justin Martyr assert there were more books in the Septuagint than the torah, thus we should accept their heresy, but reading in context is their greatest antagonist, my brothers. Even if that the case non of apocrypha were written by prophets, as 1 Maccabees 9:27 will confess, and the only Jews that rejected the prophets were the Sadducees and Samaritans. More importantly, if the Jews were to remove any books from the holy scriptures it would've been the book of Isaiah because it affirms the trinity, has the nativity story, and it was the most quoted book of the NT and no one quotes from the apocryphal books in the NT. The leading bishop from the synod of Hippo and Carthage thought the Jew in the past had the apocryphal in their canon, then it must be superior than what the actual truth is. Top it all off, the Bryennios List is probably the earliest Christian canon.

Finally the Lord's supper, when engaging this topic always remember John 6:63, again, reading in context is the reprobate's greatest antagonist. Strangely the earlier one goes back, the more the Lord's supper's role is like memorial fest, oppose to a shortcut for temporal sacrifice. For example, the didache basically states that Lord's supper is rememorate the son of David (Jesus), and the thanksgiving prayer describe the Lord's supper as "spiritual food", not actual blood. The reprobate goes on with Ignatius of Antioch's letter discussing about people who deny the Christ's presence of the Lord's supper, you must know who Ignatius was referring as the gnostics-specifically the docetists, who didn't believe Jesus had a body and that natural world is evil. Marcianus Aristides, who strongly influential to Justin Martyr, says the Lord's supper was an activity just for thanksgiving. Of course, the church and with her sacraments became more corrupt over time, but keep in the faith of God strong, my family. Bye.

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Remember 2 Timothy 3:16-17 and be well friend.

honest question lads;is it EVER ok to sin just so you know you can't trust your own works, but then don't do it anymore and start behaving actually ok?

Right now i didn't do it but Im not sure I can keep it up forever. What if I slip and fail? I even considered running away into the woods so i dont perfrom the deed.
gib advice,please.

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No and besides, you've already sinned so you got that covered. All we can do now is live for Jesus, by his rules, that would include not sinning. But first and foremost you have to believe so that his blood can cover for you.

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Is it ever humanly possible to NOT sin?
or is like not coughing when you have dry throat,with sin being a virus?

With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

You don't have to deliberately schedule sinning to recognize that you are not dependable enough to merit everlasting life.
You simply have to see that you have sinned in the past, and probably will sin again very soon. Simple faith in the truth of scripture ought to tell you that you cannot merit everlasting life.

(Romans 3:10-26)
{10}"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
{11} There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
{12} They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
{13} Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
{14} Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
{15} Their feet are swift to shed blood:
{16} Destruction and misery are in their ways:
{17} And the way of peace have they not known:
{18} There is no fear of God before their eyes.

{19} Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
{20} Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
{21} But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
{22} Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
{23} For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

{24} Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
{25} Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
{26} To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."


There are various opinions on this, but it is enough to say that any time you do fall into sin as a believer, it was possible to you to have abstained from sinning.

i couldnt do it ;_;
today i sinned, I looked with lust and tried to talk to a girl, I didn't because I dropped the spaghetti but I wanted to.

I didnt plan it but it happened.
help me lads,is it OK?will it all be allright¿

If you doubt yourself, look to the cross. In Jesus you will find peace.

I know you're shitposting, but this
Repent, believe on Jesus this moment, and you will be saved.

(1 John 5:1-4)
{1} "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
{2} By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
{3} For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
{4} For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

how can catholics and other denomination still believe salvation is not by faith alone with all the scripture you have to back it up

different sources of authority for rules of faith and practice.

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Because James 2:24 and various other places in the bible that are a variation of "those who do x will not inherit the kingdom of God"

...

Are there any good IFB Baptist podcasts? I'm a fan of Anderson and watch his sermons regularly but I would like listen to some radio shows or discussion type podcasts too. Please and thank you.

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These text's are not contradictory to sola fide when understood in the context of all scripture.
James is not contradicting the clear statements of Paul, and John about how all who believe will be saved. James is describing the fact that true saving faith will always produce good works.

See 1 Corinthians 1 and 2.

I would suggest Bishop Barron or Sensus Fidelium, they are better. :)

youtube.com/user/wordonfirevideo

youtube.com/user/onearmsteve4192

Also I was there and saw when your pic related was happening in Warsaw lul

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i got interested in "believe on" vs "believe in" 10 minutes ago, i found this random site saying:

believe in:
is to hold as the object of faith
believe on:
is to trust, to place full confidence in, to rest upon with faith

which is really interesting, but it's the same preposition in the greek everytime for "in" and "on"
someone educate me on this issue.

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Probably means the exact same thing

In the originals and in the actual English translations, it means the same thing. In contemporary English, "believe in" could have different connotations due to the way it has been used by various people. That form is used almost always, and when someone today uses "believe on" is usually just meant to be directly quoting somewhere in scripture that uses this variation. So the commonly understood meaning for "believe on" in current English hasn't changed as much.

But that's largely a development in the language since the translations were made, not affecting the way KJV was written. I'm pretty sure the cause for variations there have to do more with grammar and sentence structure in their form of English.

If there is no difference in the Greek then I wouldn't put any stock in there being a difference at all.
John wrote in Greek not English.

so if there's no difference in Greek it just seems that the whole "sola sola scriptura" thing is based on KJV only legalism.

that makes sense, thanks.

this guy thinks i'm retarded.

i don't know what this guy is trying to articulate.

that is just flat out a lie, that is not what Perseverance of the saints means at all.

that post was over a month old and a different baptist corrected him immediately afterward

you never to be extra safe to cure a case of being baptist.

He's right that as traditionally understood in TULIP framework, perseverance of the saints is a concealed works-based salvation. As I explained all the way back here >>534046 Because you're looking to your own works for your justification, therefore raising doubts as soon as anything goes wrong at any point. And I've known people who suffered and dealt with this. It's not faith in Jesus Christ. We believe in the preservation of the saints, Jude 1:1.

We are also told in the NT it may become necessary to even disfellowship a brother in some cases, but this is intended for his own benefit in the hope one may be restored to fellowship as one person was in 2 Corinthians 2. Someone who is hardcore perseverance of the saints would immediately jump to 1 John 2:19 in every case, even with themselves due to self doubt.

what does "preaching of the cross" mean?

...

you should actually make an argument since you're so well read and educated on this issue.
show him why what he's saying is incorrect so that he can learn the truth.

Love you too buddy.

Make an argument against what? He doesn't understand what he's talking about. He can learn what the position he's attacking actually is by reading this reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/index.html
Chapters 17 and 18 being the relevant ones

Can someone post the pasta that contains all scripture that proves salvation by faith, I know an user made it a few weeks ago

This one? >>556214

indeed, thank you

What is the difference between Baptists and other mainline Protestants? Is it just adult baptism or is it other things as well?

Asking cause I'm new here and I'd like to just learn.

If you keep reading you will find it. I just took a single quote, you should really read the two chapters together, it's basically the answer to why they don't accept Scripture. All the way to the end of 1 Corinthians 2. And it means they think using the Scripture that God gave us is "foolish" and to seek after wisdom of words (i.e. church fathers) instead. More on that in 1 Cor. 2:5 and 2:14. That's why I just suggested reading the two chapters together because it addresses this.

1 Corinthians 1:21-25
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

you'd have to be more specific for a better answer, credobaptism (believer's baptism, what you mentioned) is a big one though.
another thing is church polity (basically the power structure of the church, pic related.)
i think almost all baptist churches are congregational in polity.
there's also soteriology (doctrine of salvation,) i think most (non-reformed) baptists hold to "Free Grace."

there is this silly unofficial acrostic that states some baptist distinctives to consider:
Biblical Authority (Bible is the final authority)
Autonomy of the Local Church
Priesthood of the Believer
Two Ordinances (believer's baptism by immersion, and the Lord's supper)
Individual Soul Liberty
"S''aved, Baptized Church Membership
Two Offices in the Church (Pastor and Deacon)
Seperation of Church and State

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I could try my hand at this:
It means that those who will not accept the direness of the Passion of the Christ on the cross and recognise the authenticity of that message as revealing God in the flesh as the Word will not accept it any other way, it is foolishness to them, and as such they will perish.

That's not the idea. We are looking for evidence of faith by looking for works which must grow out of faith. It is faith alone that justifies, but if a person has faith then that faith will also produce works.
What does 1 Peter 1:3 mean when it talks about our "lively hope?" It can only mean that our hope is a hope that is not only alive, but that it is an energetic hope. Christ has begotten us again in such a way that we will never die, and because of this we will do the things that people who are alive to Christ do.


>

Think of it like this. A flower grows by turning itself towards the sun, and by doing so it blooms. Now, is the fact that the flower is beautiful the cause of its blooming? No, the sun caused it to bloom, and the flowers "faith" in the sun was the occasion for the sun causing it to bloom. However the fact that the flower has bloomed is evidence that it has turned towards the sun.
In the same way our faith towards Christ is the only occasion of our being justified by His grace, but our justification is also made manifest to the world by our works of sanctification.

The reason I know for a fact you're not getting the difference here is the fact you blend together first person and third person. You've described what faith looks like to another person. That's where Jesus said by their fruits you will know them and whereby we can avoid false prophets. You can't see into their mind, so that is the way by which you must discern. And it's also why a person can't profit anyone else without works to justify themselves to men like in James 2.

But this isn't how you know yourself are saved in the first person. You know why you believe. Whether it's because the word of God is truth which says that faith is the condition, or whether you're still looking at your own works as the measure to figure out if you have it because you're still not sure. So what you described would be like saying your faith is in fact conditional on your works, or even that faith is works since that's how you invariably describe it.

Nobody says it is

Catholics admit they do. And many others don't want to admit but that's how they think as well.

This
Some puritans believed that, but most reformed baptists don't. Assurance is of the essence of faith, but demonstration is of the essence of works.
And beside this, God will cause all those who are His to persevere in faith, and sanctification until the end.

Catholics believe it's a mortal sin to believe you are "saved".

And is that how you know you have faith? Not already by your assurance?

The reason I ask is because you seem to have a hard time keeping these separate.

Yes, we shall know them by their fruits. And some will creep in unawares, with their unbelief being made manifest later. Because they professed belief falsely. You couldn't have known that until it was made manifest. But if you apply that doubt to yourself, then it can only mean you aren't fully assured in what the Gospel says, yet.


It's all about works to some. The more works you do meaning the greater likelihood of being found righteous.

can you cite any pre-reformation support for the OSAS doctrine?
I cant find refutations of it from early and middle ages period

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

sure

1. Works gospel (see Galatians 1:9)
2. Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition
3. Performing baptism on unbelieving infants, thus trying to prevent them from actual baptism
4. Idolatry
5. Vain repetition/disfiguring their faces
6. Using the title "father"

In addition to these things, there are actually three prophecies that Catholics fulfill at this time:

1. Crucifying to themselves the Son of God afresh (mass as a propitiatory sacrifice)
2. Forbidding to marry/commanding to abstain from meats (1 Timothy 4:1-3)
3. Thinking to change times and laws

I'd rather not be a filthy pagan(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST)

John
6:37/38-40/44-45
10:27-29
14:1-3

Matthew
7:21-23

Romans
8:38-39

2 Corinthians
1:22
5:19

2 Thessalonians
3:14-15

Ephesians
1:13-4
4:30

Hebrews
10:17
13:5

Revelation
3:5
21:7

Mark
9:41

Take out the one from Mark

Also I know how to read

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You could include 1 Corinthians 1:18, Acts 2:47, Acts 13:48, and Romans 8:30.

No, I know I have faith because I immediately experience my own faith towards God, and simply because I have faith, I can know with certainty that God will cause me to persevere in Him until the end.
But as you said, I can only know, with reasonable certainty, your faith if I see your good works, and perseverance. Because God causes all those who have faith in Him to persevere to the end.


(Jeremiah 32:38-41)
{38}"And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
{39} And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
{40} And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
{41} Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul."

ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ ΕΠΙΣΤΟΛΗ

Ok, so don't you think it's very important that people understand this distinction then, with lordship salvation types running around spreading misconceptions about this, confusing first and third persons and mashing them together in an incoherent mess? Surely I'm not the only one worried that people are getting genuinely confused because of this, and trusting in toworks.

Absolutely, and I think a big part of the problem is that there are mountains of books misrepresenting every insight that Calvin ever had just to keep people from reading him.

I think the term "Lordship Salvation" can have a Biblical definition depending on who you talk to. There are definitely those who use it to mean that we have to call on Jesus with the intent to do works, but the term doesn't need to mean that. I take the position that we must come to Christ knowing that He is Lord of all, but that we have already failed to serve Him unto life. Thus Christ's Lordship is the reason we must come for His mercy.

Yeah, the fact that he is your Lord and you understand the implications of who he is. That is, you believe on the LORD Jesus Christ, not just on some misconception of him. He probably can't be explained properly in five minutes, to someone new. So with that said, the kind of doctrine I'm talking about here is basically openly confusing the first and third person distinction as I call it. And it's very dangerous to do so, every bit as bad as antinomianism.

Friends knowing if you're are saved is knowing in your heart you are saved but, if it be in vain in your heart then in vain shall the Lord see it;

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭15:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Lord goes on to say;
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭15:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Therefore if the Sower has planted His seed on you and the other flower in you, nor the birds, take that seed from you but rather takes root in your heart that then you are saved, when the seed grows past the birds, past the rocky soil and heat, past the thorns of the life, when the heart truly believes beyond the mouth

What's the passage where it says Abraham repented, and God counted that repentance as works?
Can't find it.

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this one?

Jonah 3:10

i wanted to see what the baptist flag looks like in other languages, and not in times new roman font.
looks cool, thanks, google translate

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The text was that Abraham believed God, and He counted him as righteousness.

(Genesis 15:3-6)
{3} "And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
{4} And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
{5} And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
{6} And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

(Romans 4:1-3)
{1}"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
{2} For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
{3} For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God.
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?"
James 2:21-24.

James is using δικαιοω in a different way than Paul is using it.
If he were not than there would be a plain contradiction in scripture.

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Probably the same guy that make a fuss about 1 Samuel 13:1 in the Septuagint.

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Its not mental gymnastics if you understand how natural language is used. We often use words in two different senses that effect meaning.
And 1 Samuel 13:1 isn't in the Septuagint (which I consult on occasion).

These were actually both of the ones I was looking for, but mixed up. Thanks a lot brothers.

>truestory.bro

wat do?

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top kale

those weren't even massive rips

yesterday I had a big chance to sin and i didn't even tho my wages of sin are already paid for.
I feel happy I didn't tho.
i feel clean.

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James 2:18

It's about justification in the eyes of man, by showing him your faith, it is for his benefit more than anything. Not that you would easily understand that concept.

This place is, perhaps too polluted with too many denominations. Where can I find the Baptist “core” on the Internet?

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sorry, for a split second you thought works justify u alone, you might as well become catholic

reformed baptists have a few thriving enclaves set up, i don't know of any for vanilla baptists though.
report back if you find one.