Budget rebellion

Shelter halves are great piece of gear. The way they're mean to work is that each guy is issued one half and when put together they make a two person tent you can also keep connecting them to make a larger tent. They're issued in a lot of armies but imho German is the best. It has flecktarn on one side when you want to stay hidden innawoods and OD green on the other for more casual camping. Each half can also be used as a poncho with carry bag serving as a hood.
$39.99 with 9.99 shipping to US on Varusteleka
varusteleka.com/en/product/bw-two-man-tent-flecktarn-used/1337

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It's an okay investment if a militia is gonna travel a lot, but I'm not sure about it.

Off the shelf tents are expensive as shit, user.

Are the sturdy at least?
It's common knowledge that if an army uses it it's built to the lowest bidder.

Well how tough are they?

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They're army tough which is as tough as it possibly can for the price. It's made of water resistant duck cotton that can be used near campfires without having to worry about sparks melting it, unlike modern lightweight sissy grade tent. It can be stitched easily so it's ideal for long term prepping. It can also be used as a bed

I've heard that the Polish ones are better, is that true?

No, I know that soil insulates well, it's that I wasn't too sure about how well would retain those properties as Estonia is very humid as well.
A dugout might be a good halfway point since the materials needed for it compared to real houses aren't as high, and it might not be as time consuming as fully underground houses. There's definitely a lot of unused potential in underground housing that isn't really been utilized.

Mike Oehler built his underground house in Idaho. The earthship guys live in Taos, NM which can get cold, but their design takes advantage of all the sunlight the southwest gets. They fare well against the elements as long as you take the time to ensure that rainwater isn't running straight into your house.

Wow, this is neat. Looks like a really cozy place.

>amazon.com/Coleman-2000027924-Parent-Sundome-Person-Tent/dp/B01D9EPOG8

Zig Forums's become more about buying dumbass products that fit the "military merchandise" market than it is about actually knowing shit about how to go outside.

You get both bags for less than $50
Yeah you can save $15 for cheap shit that'll turn into swiss cheese when put near a campfire or you can get camouflaged mil-spec, heavy duty German made tent that can serve as poncho, elevated bed or improvised stretcher. Fuck outta here

OP wants a camping tent not a backyard spooky stories tent, you faggot.
And fix your spacing if you want to be here, you should know by the lack of voting system that this isn't reddit.

That also takes up more space in your pack, weighs more which means you can carry less food, ammo, or other equi, and many people on this board live in climates that aren't in danger of freezing or torrential rains for most of the year and as a result don't need to build a campfire right next to their tents. Just because a piece of equipment was issued by a certain military does not make it a universal or even the best solution to a problem, and plenty of experienced hikers, backpackers, and wilderness campers have no problem using ultralights, and even prefer them for long trips through wild terrain over heavier, more durable ones. Pull the stick out of your ass.

There's a difference between hiking and military gear. Hikers go out for a pre-determined amount of time and if their gear breaks then they can always duct tape it together to last until they're done. OP is asking for shtf items for militia. How can you know when it's going to end if ever? For this you need a heavy duty piece of kit that should have multiple uses and shelter should be one of the top priorities and if that means spending a bit more money and having to carry a bit more weight then so be it. I don't know where you live but here we have rain from time to time and all the lightweight sissy hiking gear will not hold up to abuses that will happen to it when used by militia. You end up with torn up tent that will soak you and cause hypothermia. You try to light a fire but it only fuck up the tent even more. There are no shops where you can buy replacement because of rebellion and if there are they're way overpriced. You end up dying from hypothermia because you wanted to save $15 and some weight.

Subverting your enemies can be done for free.

If you want to establish a semi-permanent base camp to operate a militia out of, there's already plenty of natural resources you can build simple leantos or small cabins from that would offer better protection from the elements than those tents unless you're setting up in the middle of the desert. And meanwhile, if you want to stay mobile and on the move, conserving as much weight and pack space as possible takes precedence, and layering boughs or leaves sourced from around your campsite over an ultralight can provide more insulation if you really need it. I don't know what kind of shitty chinese tarps you've come across, but I have had no problem with setting up campfires near my ultralight as long as I follow the basic rule of having a cleared distance of 3 times the diameter of the firepit in between the fire and the tent, which you would do anyways with a milsurp tent because it's basic camping safety procedures. And instead of having to shove my pack full of two bulky, heavy half-shelters made from dense materials, or having to wear one of the halves as a poncho regardless of weather to save space, I can fit extra medicine, a more insulated but still lighter sleeping bag, food, bullets, cleaning equipment, morale supplements like books or a small instrument (if you're talking about a long term militia, you sure as fuck need some way to keep morale up besides just sitting around a fire talking about how much you hate the guys you're fighting). The reason why the military issued those tents to their soldiers is the same as why the US army decided to issue M14s to troops in Vietnam: cost effectiveness, actual performance be damned. The half-shelters are okay if you only expect to hike for maybe one day carrying them, but past that and they'll be a pain in your ass and you'll be wishing for something lighter. It ends up the exact opposite of your theory crafting once you actually have to deal with humping gear and packs up mountain trails or through thick forests.

Try building one and you'll hope that you brought one of those tents. It takes a ton of time, calories, makes too much noise and doesn't take a 1337 tracker to know that you camped there after you leave. Once again, shelter should be one of the very top priorities far more important than morale books or "small instruments". You should be able to trust it with your life and hiking tent you're talking about will shit the bed after a slight abuse while my German tent won't even notice it.
Oh, btw my tent weights 4,250 kg while 4 kg. But since it can be divided in half each person carries 2,125 kg so it's lighter and takes less space than this sissy backyard tent.

Who keeps making these stupid fucking threads? We have the SHTF sperg make a thread specifically to keep this shit in one place. Fucking kill yourself.

Go sperg somewhere else. This is interesting thread

Judaism is the most cost effective strategy

Get the fuck out of here nigger.

That Meadow chick is fine

Just means standardized and lowest bidder, and really the latter more than the former.

It's not pretty but it's durable.

What's the point, cheap pain relief? Or are you just telling us how to get high?

Would probably make for a good trade currency. I immagine trading drugs for bullets and food would be a big thing in SHTF.

I only own one, so I only have experience using it as a poncho, a tarp, and a very small lean-to, but it's fucking amazing. It blends in well enough that I had a buddy walk right past me when I was sitting in a creekbed, confused the hell out of me, since I wasn't even trying to hide. It also blocks wind incredibly well: I wore it over a tracksuit and walked to the gym in heavy snow, 14F windchill, and if my feet didn't get so wet I'd have sworn it was spring. Also sounds like you can get it

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Turning off all the lights, putting on some music, and surfing the universe for the next 30 hours from your bed

If you want to become the ultimate asshole force get into mortars.
Nothing screams harassment than lobbing a few mortar shells at someone a day then fucking off in a pickup before they can figure out where you were.

Wew nice, might get one then, there are British army ones but they seem to be similar to the German one and everyone I know always says that the Polish shelter half/cape is the best you can get.

Homemade MLRS like the Quassam series of rockets also does this. Arty will be a militia's best friend and worst enemy.

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DXM would be an awful pain killer since its sedative properties require a fair amount of it on top of the massive liver damage. You would actually get better pain killing out of acetaminophen. The sole purpose of taking concentrated DXM is to get extremely high. Not the fun getting a buzz and laughing high, the full body spastic holy shit am i going to die 10 hour+ high. But hell, it can't be worse than huffing shit fumes.

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Are… are you OK? I'm worried about you.

Where the hell do you get the Stalhelm and frag vest? All the ones I find are overpricedas fuck.

It's an outdated infograph, you could probably scoop that helmet for 30-40 on ebay though.

Is she /ourgal/?

Thanks samefag here. I'll make a new one if you're willing to update me with the info

I was actually working on a new one, but you are free to add to what I have.

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He's spanish, it's not his fault.

Bit shit tbh, you can get good civvie IIIA body armour for cheap, or even stuff like a full set of surplus MkIII or MkIV osprey armour for cheap.

What a time to be alive

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I figured that a single flakjacket for 99 dollars is probably cheaper than a carrier with two plates in it, but you are probably right.

If we can add a couple to the weapons list that'd be great. See below for blurbs.

M1 Garand
Buy via CMP program, ~600 to 750 dollars for a fine condition one. Sniper variant exists with picanny rail but expensive (950+). Field and service grade are still available. Comparable to cheap AR build but not able to look like muh scary babby killing ASSAULT RIFLE WITH CHAINSAW BAYONET.
DO NOT BUY THE DRILL RIFLE AS THEY CANNOT BE FIRED

M1 Caribine
CMP program. Auction only. 30rd mags are hard to find. If you wanna try your luck they go

Four things:
One: The CMP hasn't sold M1917s in any significant quantity for a long time.
Two: The CMP ever only had one problem with 1917s, which was specific to Eddystone receivers. During arsenal refurbish prior to surplus, of the rifles that needed rebarreled, the armorers torqued on the replacements too tight, and the receivers tended to develop hairline cracks as a result. Winchester and Remington receivers do not display this problem. That, and the integral ejector springs tend to break easily, which is the rifle's one real flaw.
Three: They're starting to get up there in price. If you're looking for a budget bolt gun, you'd go out and get a $300 Savage, not a $700+, 100 year old collectable.

Four:
ARE YOU TALKING SHIT ABOUT MY RAIFU?
COCKSUCKER I WILL FIGHT YOU

Hey man, that's just the impression I got from shooting my friends M1917. You can criticize if you want and add the info to the infograph.
I can't speak for savage cause I never shot one

some suggestions, if you're going for full Zig Forumsommando unit equipping.

-your goal is to standardize within reason. consider that you will (hopefully) run into other Zig Forumsommandos. consider that your newbie Zig Forumsommandos will probably die and drop their shit at some point. If your militiamen bring their own shit, you're probably stuck with their stupid. I have had to cringe as my 'squadmates' brought suboptimal gear, no matter how much I tried to show them how much better they could do (at the same cost), and ultimately failed to be reliable. No dude, you brought an 8 round jam o matic, again, I'm not trusting you with wiping your own ass. He wasn't even useful as a corpse since his ammo didn't go with my weapon and his weapon was ass.

-In my warsim experience, when you recruit newfags they bring AIDS to the battlefield and sometimes the best thing you can do is find the one or two that are trainable, and use the rest as cannon fodder. When SHTF there are people supposedly on your side that will happily drop their trousers over the spinning blade and that shit will cover you and yours. Let idiots die if you have to. You can't be captain america, and you can't be captain save-a-ho.

The latter relates to the former, in that you will be scavenging shit off of your own dead, and its way easier if you're all using the same shit.

This means we can move on to removing suboptimal choices.

-Only use budget ARs as primary rifleman gear. You can make a passable AR under 500, and maybe even that with a shit optic.

Slavshit is secondarily useful if you run into slavaboos. The most common rifle in America eats 5.56mm. No reason to confuse things. Don't use a poverty pony lower, you can go cheap on a lot of other shit, especially if you're building your own. PSAs on Aeros wouldn't be the worst thing. Davidson Defense would be. I'm not saying that you would, but no 14.5" barrels with the pin-weld shit, that just fucks up how much utility you can get out of shit ammo (that you are likely to buy/have/find). Go 16" with whatever twist rate makes sense locally based on the predicted properties of your foes' ammo, or go straight on down to using 10.5/11.5 "pistols" to avoid Mr. tax stamp if you want CQB utility in exchange for shaving off 1/3 of your effective range (sensible in urban environments). PMAGs are cheap, but S. Korean surplus mags are basically Gen 2s, and are cheaper. Steel cased ammo isn't a big deal, but you'll definitely want 16" if you're going to use it. Vegetable oil is lube, Motor oil, whatever. ARs can run dirty as fuck as long as you keep them wet.

-Fuck pump action shotguns, but really, fuck shotguns. They aren't worth it unless you happen to find one in the field. Low capacity, ammo is heavy, and with pumps, the manual of arms isn't going to get mastered quickly. Non-hardened kiddos are gonna short-stroke the fuck out of that bitch and jam it. Volume of fire is extremely important. Will a shotgun kill someone? Fuck yeah, but make sure it's the other guy. To do that, we have to say "fuck shotguns." They're specialist weapons, and what they are specialized for (I imagine you're using shot here, but slugs wouldn't be a whole lot better) is short range. I think the psychological effect of handing a newfag a shotgun will get him killed, whereas if you spent half the money and got him a Hi Point, he would at least fire twice before jamming, and would recognize that he shouldn't poke his head out to play with enemy riflemen.

-Hunting rifles. Hard to go wrong there. Even in an urban clusterfuck, your DM can cover windows, provide overwatch. There is no functional difference between Bubba's Remington 700 and SWATs Remington 700. I don't know enough about common calibers to make a recommendation other than the obvious "Try to match NATO or match LEOs". I know the Savage Axis can MSRP for sub 400.

(cont.)

Armor considerations

-This is gonna sound retarded, and I could very well be wrong, but I think money spent on helmets would be much better spent on budget IFAKs. Rifle rounds fuck you in the head anyway, and the head is a less likely target than your torso and all four limbs.

CAT 6 tourniquets are on sale now that CAT 7s are out (not that 7s are all that expensive). Israeli bandages aren't expensive either. Clotting gauze is a little pricey, as are chest seals, but, with a range of 40 - 80 USD, we could prevent some likely bleedout deaths. Good soldiers are very expensive to lose. Stopping a brachial bleed in time means you might still have a guy who can use his other hand, or at least walk with you to cover. Fish antibiotics, to prevent sepsis in the event you can't get to proper treatment in a timely fashion, are also worth it. you'll also really want to have some immodium handy. trust me. you do not want diarrhea in the field.

->>573308 This Strelok is right about there being good options for armor these days. Flaks are good at staying sub-100, and the IIA protection + pockets/attachments are efficient and economical for that range. Especially if you get one that is also stab-resistant.
That said, if you opted to reduce the helmet/IFAK budget, you could definitely put some of that into a modern plate carrier and some level IV plates, which would also greatly increase survivability.

-Random shit

Probably need binoculars (unless optics cover it), a compass, a bic lighter (if they don't smoke they might not think to have one), vinyl tape (you really never know) and a flashlight, in addition. If paracord is cheap and can fit in the budget, do it.
Regarding the knife; a tactical tomahawk might also be a worthy substitute for said knife in overall utility, while staying in the 20 - 30 USD price range. Same with a cheap multitool.
Those German milsurp poncho-tents an user mentioned in another thread seemed like a really good idea for innawoods. Wool seems potentially relevant.

You have to make sure that you are defending yourself against the elements as well as humans, because nature never stops shooting at you. She don't give a fuck. Germs, rain, cold, animals, whatever.

Let me give some tips. You shouldn't expect to be picking up just ammo off of dead bodies. If you have access to their ammo, you likely have access to their gun. Second, savaging ammo shouldn't be the primary way of getting ammo in the field. You didn't say this be I want to make sure others following along know this. You should be making use of caches and safe houses to resupply. Third, you can run a dual or even multical squad setup. Logistics for an irregular outfit don't need to be as dogmatic as .mil/LEO. My current squad is setup like this: 5.56 ARs for the basic riflemen, a 7.62 AK rifleman and a RPK gunner for support, and a .308/x51 squad DM. Let me explain.

The riflemen between them have about 1200 rounds, the DM has ~200, and RPK/AK team has 1500. Having two different intermediate calibers helps cut down on taking supplies away from either the RPK or the ARs. If an AR guy goes down and I'm out of ammo for my RPK, I can grab his AR and keep going. Likewise if I go down, my AK man or an AR guy can move onto to the RPK. All you have to do is teach manual of arms. DM does his own thing.

Another thing I want to touch on is portability and concealability. This is important because the moment SHTF happens you won't be walking down the street in cammies and carriers blasting everything. I can hide my folded M92 in a backpack no problem. AR pistols have trouble fitting in normal backpacks if they aren't in two pieces. A M92 doesn't loose too much velocity over a regular AKM, so it works as a good general purpose weapon as well. Until you meet at a rendezvous point, you should be as low profile as possible.

Pump shotguns are okay in certain contexts. Ammo and the gun itself is cheap and they work wonders on unarmored enemies (think lefties down the street who won't stop screaming about niggers getting goodified and toxic masculinity). On B&E ops one of my guys carries a 12ga with buck and breaching rounds.

No disagreements with the majority of your second post. Only disagreement is that cheap helmets aren't meant to protect against rifle rounds but shrapnel from mortars and grenades. A cheap steel helmet is heavy but it works alright in that context. Its kinda like a gas mask in that its purely situational.

I would also advise anons into looking into how to make basic 60mm mortars and BP propelled rockets for use against structures and unarmored vehicles. Portable indirect fire is an excellent asset to have. Also smoke and tear gas grenades are pretty nice pieces of kit to have.

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Helmets have been useful for stopping shrapnel and other head injuries that might not be lethal but will affect you. If things are low intensity you can probably make do without but once explosives are being thrown about you probably want one.

Calibers other than NATO for hunting rifles depends on where you are. Things are regional. As long as the local hunters use it, it should be available enough if you aren't using it for volume.

Hunting optics are generally left alone once you zero them. This is because they don't have perfectly reliable tracking.

(cont.)
So let's do a mockup of my soldier. I'm rounding up in some places because I'm lazy/don't want to do the work:

Budget AR:

Scavenging comment was mostly cynicism regarding the ineffectiveness of whatever fuckheads I might happen to have in my immediate vicinity rather than hooking up with other Streloks. I assume once we found each other finally we'd be operating somewhat operationally. Lots of dead normalfag friendlies between me and ya'll, most likely. Scavenging off the general dead is a perk, not a strat. Agreement.

Reading up on the M92 and nature of 7.62x39 out of short barrels, I'm impressed. Wasn't familiar. Perhaps slavshit is the/a way to go. I wasn't planning on getting one of those Kel-tec SU-16Cs; it'd solve the portability problem but remove all the modularity benefits of the platform. I also wasn't accounting for having an LMG with us, if so, RPK > M249.

I thought I'd be grey manning just fine with a pistol, but in a combat zone, I see why that's retarded.

I'll definitely look into DIY mortars. Sounds awesome. I'd much rather stay out of the line of fire, and you could obviously build teams around them.

I'm still not a fan of combat shotguns but I recognize they are flexible for special purposes, breaching, as you described. called a "master key" for a reason.

I hear that doorkickers fucking hated the PASGT and it didn't have much 'head-knock' protection, so that's why we got the ACH MICH, yeah? I should see about getting one of those.

What do you mean about optics not having perfectly reliable tracking? I admit I know about dick when it comes to shooting with glass.

The clicks when you're adjusting your scope don't move the same amount of angle every time. There's error in the amount of angle adjusted and on most lower budget optics when you go over the same adjustment a second time (going back to zero when you doped for range) it will move a different amount.

So you dial in a 10 moa adjustment and the crosshair only moves 9.5 moa. Then you dial back to zero and the crosshair moves 9.8 moa and you are 1/4 moa off zero. This makes most hunting and budget optics a set and forget thing with you holding off if you need to adjust for range or wind.
Red dots do this but you don't touch them after zeroing.

With higher end optics there's what's called a box test where you specifically look for it.

Weapon selection depends on your environment. 7.62 AKs and their derivatives are better for innawoods/innacity fighting than an AR with standard M855/M193 ammo due to penetration on brush and walls. However, if there is a lot of open space, 5.56 does much better. PTR/FAL is good for either at the expense of weight and ammo capacity. If you need something compact, you either go with a folder/krink AK or SU-16C. Problem is of course ballistics with the 5.56 in a short barrel. The M92 is just incredibly hard to beat thanks to its size and ballistics. With a brace, it works well as a 0-200yd gun with it being a very good choice for B&E/CQB due to its small size. Down side is the muzzle flash and concussion. Shit is loud as fuck indoors and you'll go deaf if you aren't wearing earpro.

LMGs/GPMGs are nice but honestly its a luxury at the squad level. You don't need to have it to fight but you'll be glad you have it when you need it. There are belt-fed 5.56 guns that aren't as expensive as a M249, but they are unreliable and require belts or unreliable, bulky drum mags. The 75rnd RPK drum is possibly one of the best drums made of its kind. It still jams but its miles better than a beta-C.
Its not if you don't get noticed. If you want a good in between, check out those new micro CZ scorpions. A great PDW for grey man usage. Very lightweight and very small (regular scorpion is the same size as a M92).

Ok guys, kinda related: how would you go about reliably knocking a single man out from behind without killing him and not using tazers or drugs or some shit? Legit curious coz I think it's far more difficult than it appears at first.

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Sleeper holds, my friend.

A bat/club?

rubber hammer to right temple, if not down do it again untill success

or rubber club

What would you, or anyone else, recommend as far as building the cheapest ar that you would trust in the field? I don't want to blow my hand off, but also not looking to pour a couple grand into a rifle that may be stolen, destroyed, or with money that could have been better spent on gear that would have kept me alive longer.