CCW choice

A fucking Makarov. Carry it in an Urban Carry holster that will flop around your waist line like a sandle when you draw it, but literally nobody will know that it's there, and you can tuck your shirt in.
Pocket pistols are fucking awful and you should avoid shields like the plague because the grips are too small for your hands. Get a full-sized M&P and get a good holster for it to IWB.
Get a Glock 19, put a red dot on it, buy a Raven Concealment Eidelon, and become the goddamn terminator in the event that you have to ever draw your weapon

Take your pick. Fuck pocket pistols unless they're Yuropean. PPKs and Makarovs (especially makarovs and their PPK/Makarov hybrid counterparts) because they tend to have much, much better grips than something like a Shield, a Glock 43, or a Bersa Thunder.

I CC a Magyar PA-63 in the above fashion of using a Urban Carry holster, since there's no aftermarket specifically for that gun and I didn't want to gamble on getting a Mak holster and it not fitting. I love it, and I'm very biased towards it after actually owning a Glock 43 prior.

Attached: 1376049598937.jpg (281x206 729.38 KB, 74.8K)

yeah okay good luck with that faggot

Walther CCP tbh
I just like interesting firearm actions, smh

If the situation arises it is better to cause carnage than damage. War doesn't wait for you to get home.

Isn't that a shitty meme? If you can't find a good aftermarket holster for a gun (any gun) there are plenty of companies that will mold you a custom Kydex holster tailored to your pistol, just use one of those instead.

Shield .45

Shield 9mm

Sig P365

I think it's worth the extra 100 bucks for the superior capacity. But that's just me. I do VERY much like how the Shield shoots and it's an easy recommend as well.

How dangerous is it to go about using a surplus M57 Tokarev for CCW? I don't think the safety on it works that well- but if you half-cock the hammer it works fine. Would I be better off with no round in the chamber?

Attached: SHG-YTOK_11_14_2017.jpg (500x325, 15.49K)

Treat it like a 1911.

Literally picked one with a laser up Saturday for 325 after my transfer. The normal ones pretty frequently go for around 300 and even without sales you can get 350.

Half cock is fine.
The real problem is with the round zipping right through your target.

I feel like I'd rather have the compact than the shield. That laser looks nice though. Is it worth having the laser over having a slightly bigger gun?

I see no problem.

That's why communists win all the time. )^:
Keep it pointed at something you want/don't mind hurting at all times.
Dangerous for whom?

I'm thinking Walther PPQ M2, what does Zig Forums think? Is she too thicc for EDC?

Attached: bang bang.jpg (1024x768, 63.34K)

Depends where you carry, what you wear, and your own shape. Take your preferred holster and either the PPQ or a dummy mold of it and see if you print while wearing it.

*yawn*

the grip is kinda long, thickness doesn't matter. How fat are you? The bigger you are, the easier to conceal. I barely get away with a p229.

I bet you yawn at ARs and AKs too

I sometimes carry a PPS M2. The triggers are nice. Never had a malfunction in 1K+ rounds.

do you think it would be a good idea to get one as a first handgun? ppl say I should get a full-size for the shootability but cash is tight and I'd rather err on the side of getting a gun with which I could get a permit and carry than getting one that would pull my pants down and print so I'd only ever take it to the range

I own 3 ar's
9mm is boring, go Glock 23.

get a police-trade in glock 23 or 27 from recoilgunworks.com
recoilgunworks.com/glock-pistol-night-sights-very-good-condition-p-24720.html

meh, I'd rather buy NIB

I hope you enjoy paying $50 over MSRP for a shattering firing pin.

Attached: indifferent.jpg (250x250, 23.11K)

Why?

Because it's objectively better performing than 9mm.

Get a load of this faggot

Attached: 1tJ9eXr[1].jpg (762x785, 396.35K)

Dude if you're looking for a CCW then you need to train with said CCW.
Shootability is for when shooting guns for fun.
If you don't have the money you spend it first on the gun you NEED (protection), not on a leisure activity.

Also has the right idea (but poor execution), a second hand gun if money is tight is always a smart choice but I don't recommend buying it on a site unless the site explicitly tells and show that particular gun is in great condition.
That's the reason why gun shops still exists…

AMERICAN CLOWN PISTOL

There's no statistically significant information to be gleaned from that video. The sample size is too small and the medium isn't effectively reproducible. The peer reviewed literature has overwhelmingly arrived at the conclusion that there is no appreciable difference in lethality against human targets for any of the major service calibers. Well sourced compendiums of ballistics and terminal effectiveness like DiMaio's Gunshot Wounds have had this information easily accessible for nearly 20 years now; the caliber wars have long since ended.

yes it is, you ignorant ass
1) non-bonded 9mm JHP has penetration problems
2) 147 grain 9mm is a dogshit load: you have .45acp velocity but with a much smaller, lighter load, so it doesn't expand for shit
thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/05/18/concealed-carry-performance-short-barrel-federal-9mm-147gr-hst-gel-test/
3) bonded 9mm JHP doesn't expand any better than 147 grain because bonded bullets are inherently designed to not expand as much as non-bonded, that's why they're used for hunting rounds on big game.
4) So the lesson is: use 115 gr jhp for 9mm and deal with the fact that while you will have great splash damage, your penetration is dogshit
5) .40 sw has no penetration problems and expands excellently in non-bonded, run-of-the-mill Federal JHP, that's not even considering the elite defensive JHP ammo.
verdict: .40sw is objectively superior to 9mm.
9mm guys should just switch over to .357 SIG, which is basically a modernized 9mm and is even better than .40, but 9mm shills have invested their ego in that dogshit round and therefore cannot see reason. They can only say "no, nuh uhh it's just as good caliber wars are dumb." They know their round is outclassed by the others, so they try to look reasonable by dismissing the entire caliber debate, but they just look like butthurt denialists.

you're right that some online sites are dogshit when it comes to 2nd hand guns, but recoilgunworks is giving you the actual picture of the weapon. They have a strong reputation.

Fucking discarded like a niglet in a trashcan.

gas yourself

Why not get a Steyr instead?

Who the fuck cares about that gay shit unless they're in some Dragon Warrior party going around getting into fights with blocks of ballistic gel? I'm not about to pay 50% more per range day unless you got practical differences.

Attached: 6b85973435cba1be98d876b90e88ceebc34da4af.png (1157x578, 642.66K)

If you have CCW in mind, a Shield, Glock 43, or Walther PPS should be on your short list.

You want something you'll actually carry that isn't crap.

Also 9mm > .40. Round count is better, ammo is cheaper and the morgue won't be able to tell the difference between the two.

got a Shield last year after doing a lot of research. It's great, as long as you use the 8 round extended mag so your pinky doesn't hang off the grip. it's not the most accurate pistol in the world but it shoots well enough for a 3.25" barrel and the default sights are the best I've seen so far on a pistol. it's a bit of a bitch to get a good enough grip on the slide to rack it, the scalloping doesn't really help as much as you think. it gets easier once broken in. stock trigger is okay, feels chunky; you don't need to replace it but there is a cheap drop-in from apex that'll drop the pull if you want it. I have it chambered in 9mm and the recoil is very manageable. It almost feels like you're shooting a full framed gun. I'd recommend it, I CC it every day. I got a bitching AIWB holster from redline concealment (cost 90 bucks, wait time was 5 months due to backorders) but finding decent holsters TODAY that won't break your wallet isn't hard at all, since it is an extremely popular pistol.

I don't recommend this pistol in higher calibers. 9mm expansion and penetration are adequate. just use gold dots or critical defense or whatever.

the Shield 2.0 also doesn't offer all that much more than the original but if the price is right and you want a laser on it stock, might as well.

One you get ambushed by a gang of ballistic gel cubes, you're going to be ashamed of your words and deeds (^:

Walther PPQ is a superior platform and is molded better for CC draw.

When you get a chance check out Steyr's range of polymer pistols. A bit less accurate than your standard 3-dot for target shooting but orders of magnitude superior in a defense situation due to fast target acquisition.

Attached: ClipboardImage.png (1600x1200, 1.86M)

Got PPK-L in .32 ACP

I was looking into getting a 9mm shield and saw the TLR-6 for it. Personally I think it would be nice to have for CC and having around the house but I wanted to hear some strelocks thoughts on carry guns with lights.

Attached: 51NZu KeCHL._AC_SY400_.jpg (460x364, 59.89K)

I'm enjoying my Beretta Tomcat.
Found it in practically unused condition at a tiny gunshop.
Using underhill cavitators and buffalo bore +p along with standard geco 32.

Attached: wm_4001878.jpg (1600x1200, 324.46K)

*Underwood

Nice pocket rocket

i dont shoot pistols the post

practicing fundamentals sucks just buy a roland special amirite guise

can't think of any downsides, as long as you can get a form-fitted holster. lights are awesome.

.45 ACP isn't very fun to shoot in a babby sized autoloader. I unironically like shooting .357 out of a snubbie better than .45ACP in a Shield, mostly because the Shield's trigger guard keeps slapping my trigger finger.

Such a clown pistol Norway built its own 1911, very fine ones at that. Shame on you brother.

Also since I'm too lazy to look it up, what does QTDDTOT mean

Fuddy Five
tbh even 9mm is unpleasant to shoot in these micropenis guns
the problem is the micropenis guns. Get a real CC gun, like a p229.

...

Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread

Don't you have a revolver to be oiling or did the Belgians deign to supply you lot pistols?

I use a micropenis gun [Shield] because I have to work in public, lifting and moving shit all the time and I'm not supposed to CC at work despite working somewhere dangerous as shit. If I was bigger, I'd carry something bigger, but I'm skinny af (under 130lbs/59kg), and I can't get away with wearing too many shirts that would make me look like a flying squirrel. Appendix carry is also necessary, since bending forward/down (which I do often) reveals 4 or 5 o' clock carry in my uniform. I use a Kydex holster I custom ordered from Redline Concealment (fucking loooong backlog on orders), which is great at what it does (holds Shield + 1mag). I know what you're thinking because I'm thinking it too, why the fuck not carry a double-stack that holds that in one mag? Is that half-inch thickness that big a difference?

It's my first carry gun and I was paranoid, so I thought it would. Weight distribution also factored into the call I made. With the extended 8 rd mag, I comfortably can hold it without pinky slippage being an issue. But I'm always wanting to improve my defense capability, so I'm open to this discussion.

My question is, do you think I could CC something bigger under the conditions described above? I really wanted an FNS-9c but the Shield did enough right and I was worried about bulk. With the weapon's overall popularity I haven't been second-guessing it.

Attached: 1469400879171-0.jpg (575x774, 73.35K)

The British Flag: The universal symbol of being an expert on handguns

What's your opinion on Springfield Armory? Specifically the XD 9mm Compact

We're still pissed at them for the whole Illinois disarmament-lobbying scandal. Buy secondhand if you absolutely have to have one.

why not just throw peas at them then?
seriously, short-barrel 9mm slings 147 grain bullets at about 850 feet per second. That's absolutely fucking horrible.
Carry something with a 4" barrel
make it either .40 or .357 SIG
if you want to CC 9mm, you must go with a 4" + barrel. Try CC'ing a Glock 17, it's actually very easy with a good holster, I do it.
Buy the Galco King Tuk Holster: it is IMO the best CC holster on the market.
In fact, only buy Galco holsters.
So XD 9mm compact, or any compact 9mm? Throw it into the trash.
Springfield? Fuck Springfield, but the Croatia bros do make a good gun.

Attached: Gtleddit gtinto the trash it goes _878b08cd54189ff0fa1efef5408cd1d8.jpg (948x711, 26.72K)

One guy got shot 5 times with a .45, one guy got shot 5 times with a 9mm. Both are dead, but which one is more dead? Doesn't matter, the presence of a pistol alone will stop any attacker short of some nigger on bath salts. Even a .22. Guns have a massive psychological effect that I don't think you guys quite appreciate. Both for the shooter, and the shot. That being said I use a 9mm. I love my barettas. Cutie pies with big asses for my ayylium hands to hold. I hate sub-compacts, all of them. Not a fan of sigs or glocks. Personal preference purely. I'm sure they are just fine pistols. All that's cool and all but .fuddyfihve is slow and expensive. Fawdy is cop shit, and in a shitty limbo between 9 and 45. 9mm has the effect of spitballs. Conclusion? Invent a device to transport us to a dimension in where 10mm and 357 sig are the popular rounds and aren't fucking stupid expensive. It's like the whole 7.62x39 vs 5.56 debacle. Both are good rounds and combat proven. A well placed shot, or a lot of poorly placed shots will get the job done with either 9mm or fuddyfihve. 40 fags fuck off though, you're probably all cops and feds. At the end of the day, get what you can afford according to what you need. Let it also be said .380 has everybody beat on number of floppies slotted when it comes to self defence last time I checked. 9mm is the most common and cheapest, so best for getting practice. .fuuuuuddyfaaahv has that sexy BAM and drop, it gives me visions of blasting gooks on a ridge firing one handed as napalm strikes 100 yards in front of me.

TL;DR
Your're all faggots 9mm is the best, baretta 92 is the best handgun on earth and fuck you 40 users you fence sitting faggots i hope you get stabbed with an aids needle because your shitty glock explodes and blinds you. WW1 style 1911s or GI models in general should be the only 1911 you're not smarter than john moses browning.

Attached: 2._wwi.png (3264x1836 1.16 MB, 1.62M)

You're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

Attached: artillery_luger.jpg (1280x720, 101.99K)

Here is where I shit on grip safeties. Instead, I will exalt it's rugged construction and the fact it isn't a plastic piece of shit.

What like… Most guns?

that's a bing bong bannu if I've ever seen one

Nigga where did I mention grip safeties or Tupperware?
Again, special kind of stupid.

Attached: 15z_CZ75B9mm_L_91102_01102.png (1920x1435, 525.65K)

Oh… A man of culture.

Attached: Looks Like I Made a Mistake.mp4 (640x360, 146.29K)

Wrong, in the 1930s the Germans wanted an automatic pistol specifically with an exposed barrel. The Walter P38 won, and then West Germany reintroduced it in 1957. Then they switched to the P1, which is virtually the same gun. They only started replacing it in the 1990s, and only finished that in 2004.

I sprung for a compact to shave off a little more print. Still has 14 rounds.

Attached: 15z_CZ75Compact_L_91190_01190[1].png (1920x1343, 770.59K)

Just bought myself an SP-01 Phantom yesterday. My first DA/SA auto. Did I do good?

Sweet shooter, very easy to be accurate with… trigger's a little strange, but I'll get used to it.

My nigger. I love mine, had it for about a year now

Do you carry it? Any holster recommendations?
I was looking at this guy
daraholsters.com/owb/

Probably high ride with a 7.5 degree forward cant.

It's way too big for a guy my size to conceal. I'm not usually a fan of open carry, but I'm liking the gun so much that I might start.

Should be fine. What matters is if you can afford the ammo to train with it and it won't fucking jam if it has a bit of lint in it.

How would 10mm Auto or .357 SIG perform out of a 80mm (~3.15") barrel? Are they comparable to snubnosed revolvers that have similarly short barrels. Of course, in the case of revolvers the chamber is not part of the barrel, and so that 80mm is more like 48-51mm (~1.9-2") if we don't measure the chamber.

Assuming you mean recoil characteristics, it also depends on weapon weight, ammo load hot/normal, cycling action, and bore axis placement, all of which can affect the recoil markedly.

No, I mean make people dead.

inb4: I know that pistol ammunition is simply terrible for that job.

? Then barrel length is irrelevant, and you're talking about ammo wound channel characteristics.

OP here. I've had my Shield 45 for the past 2 months and put over 600 rounds through it with only one failure in the first 100 rounds pic related. Shoots well at 25 yards but I've never taken it out to 50 yards yet. Carrys comfortably too.

Attached: 20180616_183137_noexif.jpg (3771x2121 4.24 MB, 4.08M)

Now don't tell me that there isn't a relationship between barrel length, the energy of the projectile, and its wound channel characteristics.

9mm shill logic at its finest

10mm and .357 SIG are in every way superior to 9mm, they will make, have made, and continue to make people much deader.
the two pistol rounds with the most one stop shots are .357 magnum and .40. .357 SIG is .357 magnum, and 10mm is a beefed up .40, so you should be carrying one of those three rounds. .357 SIG, .40 or 10mm.
I'd give a pass on .45acp because you can get +p .45 ammo that really is pretty bad.
9mm is a chickenshit plaything for weak faggots.

it's a good little gun, but you've gotta tighten up those groupings, son.

You're either trolling, or trying to ask about the effect of barrel length on shot accuracy in a very obscure way.
If you do mean accuracy, then the stuff I mentioned about recoil comes into play, since with most pistol cartridges you'll need follow up shots. There are also issues about chamber pressures to fully accelerate the bullet, and would also be dependent on the ammo load and cycling action.
TL;DR
It would be snappy, and I wouldn't be counting on it to engage a threat on the other side of a parking lot.

I'd suggest tightening up on practice regime too.
How do you accurately tell how much you've improved by in 6 months if you're hand drawing a target on scrap?
If you're poor fag, get some wallpaper on sale and make a simple target stencil out of card. You can draw large targets onto the plain white back of the wallpaper and cut them out or hang them up.

So a subcompact pistol chambered for either of those rounds would actually make sense, is that correct? Of course, it would have limited utility, but in theory they should be about as effective as .357 Magnum. Or at least the data here suggests that:
ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
ballisticsbytheinch.com/357sig.html
ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html

No, I'm asking about the ballistics of 10mm Auto and .357 SIG out of a 80mm barrel in a rather direct way.

Small changes in barrel length may not change the terminal ballistics that much, however more extreme barrel lengths can change it quite a bit. Maybe you won't see much difference between a 2 inch and 3 inch, or even 4 inch, but at some point performance will change as the inches of the barrel increase. Its a complicated issue, though.

Certain cartridges have vastly different internal ballistic properties. I carry a 357 Magnum in 6 inch barrel, and its quite the cartridge in this regard, the difference between the average 4 inch barrel revolver and 18 inch rifle using the same 357 and 38 Special loads is about DOUBLE. One looks at the data and it appears these cartridges are far more sensitive to barrel length; other pistol cartridges see moderate gains from longer barrels all the way up to absolute near 100% optimization.

This can be considered good or bad, good in the fact you can rest assured that the terminal performance of your compact pistol isn't going to suffer much for choosing the smaller barrel. It also can be viewed as bad because it reduces the gain from using a carbine in that cartridge. Strong loads of 158 grain bullets in 357 Magnum can acheive upwards of 1,350 fps in 4 inch revolvers and 1,850 fps in a rifle, doubling the energy, the rifle now is an ethical choice for short range deer hunting. A longer barrel 9mm carbine is definitely an advantage, but no where near the gain (nor the loss) of the 357 Magnum.

This might be a bigger issue in high power, higher case capacity cartridges rather than smaller ones. Still, the evidence is there that short enough barrels might effect killing ability, so you should do your research on your particular gun, loads desired to shoot, barrels, learn a little about the hicks and kinks of your particular cartridge.

THEN we have to consider that various guns will have different characteristics. Even with similar barrel lengths wear, tightness, action, all play a roll in performance. Cylinder gaps in revolvers play a crucial roll. I think either Speer or Sierra did tests on magnum revolvers that after 6,000 rounds of high pressure full power loads revolvers would lose an average 100 fps for life from throat erosion and wear. The idea that your old beat up Glock will have lower velocities than you brand new shiny Glock of the same model is not an insane one.

Follow up note is that longer barrels are easier to control. You change the axis to your advantage, you reduce muzzle blast's effect on pushing the weapon around, you push it further away from you. All of this leads to better combat shooting by way of making the firearm easier to control. Yes, one can shoot a high power short barreled gun quickly in some cases, but it takes everything the man has to attempt to control it, both hands, his full weight and effort; not all of these things are available in combat. The longer barrel gun offers better control when wounded, tired, in a poor position, weak, injured, one handed shooting which easily happens in real life.

This makes full frame pistols and revolvers superior, in every aspect save for perhaps weight and totally in concealment. The bigger, heavier, longer gun has better control, ballistics, lest blast, recoil mitigation, and often capacity. These are facts. You want to carry a very concealable gun, that's fine, just keep in mind the objective facts of the field.

At some point my Hi Power is better in a carjacking situation, where you are shooting weak, one handed, out the side of a window, than a micro 9mm Luger. My full size 1911 is superior to a compact 45 ACP in the same scenario. I can control my 6 inch barrel M-27 pretty easy in that situation, not as easy for someone with a snub nosed lighter weight smaller framed 357 Magnum.

Last note of value is the dreaded undergun followed by underload syndrome. Johnny buys a super lightweight snub nose 38 Special rated for +p ammunition. He says he will carry +p high end ammunition. Johnny shoots the high power ammunition and gets sick of the blast and recoil. Johnny downgrades and starts to shoot light load 38 Special regular pressure. Johnny doesn't simply just have a small barrel, he has a light load to go with it. Soon he is shooting weak rounds and should just stick ot non expanding ammunition just to keep it from under penetrating.

My big boi revolver and all its heavy weight and long barrel makes it suitable for the most hottest powerful 357 Magnum loads that can be loaded and fired. The point is firing super hot loads of 357 Magnum is more comfortable, and more controllable, in my big revolver than light loads in Johnny's snub compact ultra light. Johnny made a good decicion on a good gun, I recommend the old J frames, but the point stands; those of us who carry full size can control full power rounds better than gutted rounds in smaller guns.

Concealability does in deed come at a cost.

Faggot that's been CC-ing an SP101 .357 with babby-tier 2.25 inch barrel for the better part of a decade here.

Would just like to add, with enough training you can, you really can, overcome all those issues. "Enough training" in this case meaning "seriously tens of thousands of rounds and combined totals of months of practice", but it can be done. I can reliably nail targets at the medium rifle range at my gun range with the SP but I had to shoot it a truely insane amount in order to get to that point.

In the amount of time it takes you to git gud with a snubnose revolver you could git olympic-tier with virtually any other type of gun. Same goes for reloading. I can reload mine FAST, but that's only because I've A) gotten it chamfered and B) gotten it down to muscle memory I've done it so much.

I've also never really had trouble with the muzzle blast. I always hear it's blinding from a snubnose but good god I have never ever noticed it being any worse or better than any other gun after shooting it a shit-ton. Maybe that's just me.

Do you shoot better than that at 25 yards with a sub compact .45?

yes, but tbh don't go for subcompact, it is shit-tier in generally because sub 4 inch barrels is where you really lose performance across the board. Stay with a 4" barrel compact gun like the Glock 21, the p229. Glock 29 would work as long as you're carrying real 10mm loads because 10mm is so powerful, and the barrel is still like 3.8 inches.

The point I was making is, "that" is ill-defined without standardization. I wasn't asking to compare cock sizes with you.