Rifles that aren't AR15s

And that was added within recent years. A lot of PTR-91s in circulation still don't have it.

A decent primary arms 1-4x or something similar would likely do the same work for a few hundo cheaper, but as previously said, there's nothing wrong with trij quality.

Trijicon's claim to fame is 1) being hella light compared to the competition 2) the fiber optic lighting shit they patented. If the price premium on the Accupoint is "worth" those features to you then go ahead, if not grab yourself a Vortex or Primary Arms sight.

I've heard about this, no idea how it's unrestricted but uses regular AR parts.

Can you explain it for me because I see nothing anywhere on how it works.

ARX-100 owner here, The gun is thicc and the piston assembly makes it rather front-heavy, though seeing that the entire thing is a plastic shell, it would be difficult to balance. As for the trigger, its stiff, but has a very clean break with no sponge. The only thing people who handle my rifle complain about is that the folding stock is a bit short. But its less of an issue if you hold it squared off like an AK. The no-pin takedown and quick change pencil barrels are nice features too, ambidextrous gimmicks aside.

CZ Bren 805 S1, I got mine for 1200.

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That's because it's not out yet. But when it is you'd better believe that I'd buy one if I could afford it.

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Receiver sets are about $100 flat.

Should be cheap enough to pull off.

Instead of using pins to keep the upper and lower together, the upper slides on to the lower and has a screw.

The gen 1 model had a plastic recoil spring guide which snapped a lot, the gen 2 ones are now made of aluminium I think, so they're fine now.
Tbh, as far as .223 AR-based piston rifles are concerned, it's one of the better ones mechanically, it actually has a new BCG design to deal with the piston instead of just slapping on a solid gas key which gets peened by the piston over time and leads to carrier tilt due to the off-centre nature of simple gas key meme piston BCGs.
It's also light as fuck and has a folding stock, so that's neat.

Don't you guys have an unrestricted AR-18 coming out some time soon too?

You summed it up pretty well. I'd like to add that the MCX also has replaceable steel inserts on the areas that wear due to BCG tilt. It's a pretty clever design tbh, but the way I see it all these neat engineering tricks are only necessary to solve problems that were created by slapping a piston on the gun in the first place. It's good if you really, really want an AR-18/SCAR hybrid with a folding stock for some reason.

Okay anons make fun of me
i bought the today for $1680 and a 3.5x ACOG for $975 love how clear the optic is and how it looks on my weapon. BUT I BOUGHT THE .308 VERSION OF THE ACOG

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Learn what your drop is buddy. You got a good scope even without the BDC

Gotta wait for the MCX-MR to come out and buy that too, goy

I thought the replaceable steel parts were up front in the cam pin track and stuff, nothing to do with carrier tilt, right?
sage for doublepost

You're probably more correct, I'm going off half-remembered facts from shit I read two years ago back when I was thinking about buying one of these.

damn, how rich are you?

Don't you save shekels for nice things?

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Dunno about everyone else but I get to a point when I am saving where I have enough money to buy what I want but can't bring myself to spend the money.

Time-preference, or "buy once, cry once." Even poorfags can own nice guns if they put money aside and wait for sales instead of jumping on the first Maverick 88 they see, and they save money in the long run because they won't feel a need to upgrade the expensive shit, and it lasts longer to boot. Source: Am relatively poorfag college student with a 2.5K AR build.

Does that restraint go away when you look at a Tavor or a Deagle? If so I might have some bad news for you.

What do you consider midrange? PSA is like 420+lower and they're the lower end of mid.

PSA is a gamble, user. Above Anderson in quality, but just barely.

I do, but Sig has inconsistent pricing
I got a very fine p229 SAS for $550 in December, then $350 for a P320. Used the savings to get .357 Sig barrels for both guns in addition to the .40 and Trijicon night sights for the p320.
Now $1600 for that gun…just feels overpriced. I like Sig a lot, even with the (((Cohen)))) induced QC issues as of late, but I wouldn't drop 1600 on that rifle. Piston guns feel like a deliberate kiking, as if the kikes are taking advantage of the paranoia surrounding DI.

because they source their parts from different places, you can say that there isn't no one "PSA." It's just different sourcing.
In my experience, at least their stainless barrels are shit. I had terrible accuracy out of their one stainless barrel I tried.
Their receivers are fine.
Their NB bcg are fine.
buffers are kinda shitty, very noisy, which is the average really.
rails are good
gas tubes are pretty shit, readily melt. They supposed to, but I always hated that Stoner idea of letting the gas tube go to shit.
anyhow if I had 1600 I'd probably dump it on a 20" build. 16" barrels aggravate me, the 14.7 meme makes me want to kill people.

Colt
never go for the mid-range because it's always the most overpriced. You're getting something mildly better than the low-end but at a far, far greater cost.
Either go low-end or high-end. The middle is pure kikery.

Well if you define the midrange as Colt, of course that's going to be true. A better definition of midrange for an AR is a 6-9 hundred Frankenrifle. Source decent parts from good companies–Aero Precision, Toolcraft, Ballistic Advantage, Odinworks, Faxon, etc.–and you have the sweet spot of AR builds for bang for your buck: No-frills, but good accuracy and durable enough for most purposes. A "milspec+" trigger like the ALG would make it into a build like this most likely, but no fancy drop-in triggers. Furniture and lower parts are similarly "milspec+", with a few minor upgrades here and there: maybe an ambi safety, maybe a stock with storage area, you get the idea. You can get a very fine rifle in the midrange category.

If weren't not including the optic/sights in the price, you can get a lot of rifle for 6-9 hundred

Then just add a muzzle device (4+ bucks) and handguard. Either 350 for the carbon fiber featherweight, or 160 for Aero ATLAS-S if saving 200 bucks is worth a few extra ounces and more heat transfer is worth (and if you combine that with the gas block you get 20 dollars off on Brownells.). You're under 800 bucks with all that, and I'm not sure how you can improve it.

*You can pick up a Brownells for roughly the same price when they go on sale. I'm just doing current sales.

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The $100 is a deposit, it costs $1000

Did you think you could hide the fact that you made a WWSD ripoff build by throwing out some of the more expensive parts? :^)
Your list is good, although you're overpaying for the Faxon CF tube–Smokes Composites has an MLok tube that's both lighter and ~$60 cheaper, and Brigand Arms has a tube that's even lighter, provided you're okay with a proprietary mounting system.

Save your shekels Zig Forumsommando

So i returned my 3.5 ACOG today and tried to find another one out in town in .223/5.56. I couldn't find one but i did find this EOTECH Vudu Variable power optic for around 1400 with tax. I really like this optic it's got a first focal plane reticule and I can reindex the windage and elevation after i zero so i can make quick adjustments on the fly.

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No, I just did that because it's a "high end" AR build that isn't (just) throwing some company's expensive gimmick part on the rifle. Really the only part that's unique to that is the CAV-15 lower, and the only alternative for a lower is arguing which of the twenty thousand furniture options is better.

I was thinking ruger and smith for about $600-$700 on sales for $500 sure but these are the more common numbers I see I like PSA I consider them very cost effective and would put them up against the rugers and s&w rifles but for a rifle that's pre-built get one and and go I'd get the others since I have better access to said rifles and won't have to pay for shipping assuming a special deal is not on

Thanks I was considering this rifle as "my not an AR raifu". Fatness aside the trigger was what got me scratching my head and since I don't see much issue I'll just chalk it up to people being spoiled by fancy AR triggers not like I'd know, the best triggers I've felt were on my shotgun, pistols, and savage mark 2. Not exactly tacticool roof top nog shooters. Like I said definitely on my list but probably after the PTR

I just saved for a Shit and Wesson 686+ coming out of gun jail in a few days. Not exactly mind blowing but just a few weeks ago I dropped saved shekels on trijicon mro also. That's about 1300 right there.

sweet
can't say it doesn't look fine

maybe I'm a small guy, but those barrel guys I'd consider high-end.
I'm not sure I'd consider builds as fitting into this hierarchy. You can build a 1,000 gun that shoots just as well as the most elite AR's. That's what I did tbh. Two $1100 ar-15's.

You can get Faxon barrels for like 160, less if they're on sale.

yeah but that's like super clearance 16 inch govt' kind of stuff, not really the average.
What do you consider high-end barrels?

Krieger, Criterion, McGowan, and Shilen are what I'd call "high end" barrel manufacturers. Faxon's Match Series can be considered either the upper end of midrange or the lower end of highend.

What do you guys think about the MSBS? I've been waiting for new info on imports, but the only stuff I can find is from 2015

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...

Neat concept, don't even know if the polaks have them issued yet.

Any thoughts on the ARAK?

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Convince me not to get a modern Goylil. It looks like purest gay BDSM sex. The thing about AKs and their rip-offs is I don't see nearly as much gear-queer shit around them.

This. Know what you're building and why you're building it, get just the parts you need and never when they aren't on sale. You can build a pretty fucking good AR for under 1K USD if you're patient and subscribe to all the vendor mailing lists.

Agreed 100%

There's definitely an elitist attitude in the AR community around way overpriced bullshit but the contrarian poverty pony defense force is the more retarded of the two.

Anderson, Bear Creek, Davidson Defense, Radical, ATI, Omni, Del-ton, DPMS, PSA, etc. Just don't even fuck with that shit. You'll spend more money upgrading and essentially replacing a shit rifle than you would if you built it right the first time, so don't go too cheap on shit. Spike's is overpriced for what it is but it's reliable.

I've seen negative reviews of Sabers regarding light primer strikes, might be worth noting.

What parts would a Frankengun built like a brick shithouse be made out of? Curious on a lot of durability stuff.

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looks awesome to me and I trust Faxon. It's usually a pain in the ass to get 7.62x39 going in a non-AK. Putting the whole system in one receiver that can added so quickly is an easy sell. Price point is steep, but that's to be expected.

bear in mind that it's been renamed to "grot", so you'll probably get better search results when using this name which is fucking retarded, grot means arrowhead why the fuck call your gun like this, call it a fucking ballista, crossbow or some shit, not an arrowhead
it's slowly getting introduced, I've got a friend in polish OT (which is the wannabe national guard, de facto weekend soldiers that get paid way less) and one of his unit's companies will get supplied with them
one of the articles I've checked did mention a contract for 53k rifles and the factory is just starting the full production
so hang in there, you might get one some day

I like how gun manufacturers have completely given up. Everything's either an AK or an AR-15 and there are AR-15s that look like AKs and AKs that look like AR-15s and AR-15s that use AK mags and fire Soviet ammo and AKs that use STANAG mags and fire NATO ammo.

Why can't we get guns that aren't an ARs? It's like the fucking Mauser all over again.

Because then people will call you a special snowflake for not wanting the blessed form of Kalashnikov or Stoner. And god forbid you want a handgun that isn't a Glock or Beretta-type.

Well, those designs are popular for a reason. Not saying they can't be improved upon but the AR and the AK are very mechanically sound and most of the kinks have been worked out of them over the years; the guns work, manufacturers realize that, and consumers realize that, so that's why they sell. Same deal with Mausers. There are some other options on the market, however, even if they aren't as prolific. Hard to find a third alternative that isn't an AR-18 derivative somewhere on the inside though.

A bit confused by that last one. Mechanically, the 92 is in some ways less derivative than the Glock is–the former uses the tilting-barrel action that near every handgun since the Hi-Power uses, while the 92 uses a falling locking lock. That's not original either, as it was first used on the Walther P38, but it shows that Beretta engineers at least made some effort to go off the beaten path. The open-slide design is particular to Beretta as well. On that note, I'm not sure what you mean by "Beretta-type"–while almost every major pistol maker has their own take on the striker-fired, polymer frame Browning Action handgun, there is no other major company that uses elements particular to the 92–those being the open slide and the action. There are some minor companies making budget 92 clones, but that's it–while Walther, CZ, Springfield, S&W, etc., all have their not-a-Glock, I can't think of any not-a-92s.

In general, it seems like the doublestack semiauto market has a lot more mechanical variety than the "sporting rifle" market. In addition to the standard tilting barrel, you've got the Beretta 92's falling-block, the PX-4 Storm's rotating barrel, some kind of delayed blowback in the Maxim 9, and straight blowback in Hipoints, Makarovs, and a couple others. In addition to the operating system you've got more variety in the trigger. There's striker-fired, DA/SA, DAO, SAO, and then funky special snowflake shit like the Sig DAK trigger, HK's LEM, and Lionhead's double action+.

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What about custom ar pattern rifles for calibers such as 7mm rem mag and 300 wins mag?

Eh, snowflake AR-10s are still ARs. The AR platform is a Barbie doll–you can accessorize everything you want, get all the components matched just right to complement each other, and you can build the rifle of your dreams–but no matter how unique it is it's still called Barbie underneath all of that.

Ignore that part, I just picked the first 'common' handgun that came to mind other than glocks.
I was thinking the CZ75, but now that I actually look into it that doesn't seem to be the case. Oh well, handguns aren't my avenue of specialty.

Yeah, the CZ is a near-clone of the Hi-power more than anything else.

Stoner 63a died for this.

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Hope you're not retarded enough to store a rife in the barracks.

I got the 308 version for 1600 off Atlantic firearms, it has almost zero recoil less than my LMT MWS or SCAR

I will never not be mad

If I remember right, the Stoner 63 had a similar affect on troops as the M14 - it was a pain in the dick to clean in the field and the people who were issued it either didn't bring it into fighting or used it only because they didn't have anything to drop it for.

Feast your tits on this. Canucks doing something nice for once.

What's a solid AK to buy if I'm looking to buy once?

but dude
gun poo mouth

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Except it was exceptionally popular with SEALs, and pretty much everyone who used it.

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Arsenal is the only one left, and they're expensive as hell for an AK.

ar15s aren't reliable though, just look at pretty much every military trial ever. they have far more malfunctions than pretty much every other assault rifle out there.

but i understand where you're coming from, being a poorfag with massive need for post-purchase rationalization

AR15s are fun little range toys and decent enough for home defence.
If shtf, just use it until you get your hands on something better.

There is a small difference but it's obvious you never shot one in your life, piston or DI.

Hey what kind of optic is that?

What good rifles in 7.62x39mm does Zig Forums recommend? Rifles for getting shit done, not "customizability", unless it actually allows to make something good. Ak is an obvious choice, but is there something that can be improved more easily? AR in x39 sounds great, with easily swappable calibers and tinkering, but there seems to be some reliability issues, both with the round and the platform in general(at least due to complaints in this thread on the latter). Does PTR have nay issues?

How do the new augs compare to the old besides the optic?

Get a Yamaha if you can.

the AR DI system sucks dick for steel ammo, which is the only ammo realistically available for 7.62x39. Steel is just harder to cycle and that's why you need the big AK piston to rip it out, or a blowback.

VZ 58 or Type 84 would be my guess, but good luck getting the last one if you aren't a chink or their colonies.

not sure, got it from a supply sergeant and he didn't know what it was either

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AK would be your best bet, although if you want something different for the sake of difference the PTR is worth considering. Not substantially better or worse than the AK, but it's variety. You're right that the AR and 7.62x39 don't really mix—if you want that kind of performance out of an AR, .300 memeout is much less of a hassle. Maybe an ARAK-21 if you really want quick change barrels and the like, but you're still dealing with AR-pattern 7.62 magazines, which have reliability issues.

I'm more interested in something more comfortable to handle and use than AK, AR's modability is more of a bonus, but i want a finished solution in the end. What problems does PTR have? Reliability, dirt, gasses in the mechanism, more wear on multiple parts? How are controls?

How does vz58 compare to an AK? The controls seem nicer and there is better scope mount. I'm worried about how the rifle would handle some shtf scenario.

More reliable, if you could believe it. More accurate too. Not by a whole lot, but it's noticeable. A touch lighter. Needs different mags though. It's a damn good gun, like most czech shit. It may be more expensive. Here they went from around $400 for the gun and mags to over $1000, if you can find them, over night. Thanks Iraqvetern888888888888888

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And what about PTRs? They seem to have the nicest controls and scope mount, aside from lack of VZs open bolt on empty mag.Also looks closest to AR of all 3

VZ's are lighter than both AK's and AR's. They're a delight because some of them come pre tapped and drilled for a side mount. The only downside to them is some of the surplus strikers tend to be fragile like china.

PTRs are plenty reliable, but for a given set of circumstances—the nature of delayed blowback makes it more sensitive to different loadings. It also mangles casings something awful, but as you'll likely be shooting mostly steel I doubt that matters too much to you.

Tasco Red Dot sight?

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tkb-517, this is what AK should have been, but never was.

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I don't know, that looks like an AR-15 Semi-Fully Automatic Assault Rifle to me.

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All the weapons are full semi automatic anyway making them basically the same right?

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:^)

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I just remembered that I forgot to mention the AR-15s that use AK mags to fire NATO ammo and the AKs that use STANAG mags to fire Soviet ammo because those exist too.

Apparently someone out there wants an AR-15 that is exactly like any other AR-15 except it uses Russian banana mags for no reason in particular other than that it makes the gun unbearably ugly to look at.

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It is on market in Poland already. Cost around 8k PLN. Civilian version is named "Grot S16 FB-M1"
Clip on which guys are unpacking delivery:
youtube.com/watch?v=llMtVrhZcNE

Waiting for them to do the revised variant. When they came out, they were like 1800, so you got a heck of a deal, nigga.

Last I checked, they gave up on trying to import it to the US.

Have you read the US army test data?

Uses meme mags and the ejection port is massive and doesn't seal very well. The CMMG Mutant looks better.

Didn't know PTR32 was a thing, and now I want one. H&K sexiness while being compatible with my existing ammo cache. Think it's close enough to the original to mount the old wood furniture?