In another thread, user said "At this point, I don’t think it would surprise anyone that a revolution or a civil war could start any day now in the United States or in Europe."
I agree with this. But unlike user, who was interested in how to arm a militia, I am interested in what tactics a militia will use in a revolution/civil war.
So what kind of small unit tactics would a Zig Forums militia use? I personally would favor those from SH 21-76 Ranger Handbook.
Cities and towns - avoid them (lest the militia is besieged) or draw the enemy into them? The military hates fighting in cities for a very good reason - it favors the defenders.
Civilians who aid the enemy - what would happen to them?
Other thoughts:
Intelligence gathering - very important IMO. It helps to know who the enemy is. But this might be something for a separate organization, rather than the guerrillas/partisans.
There is a shit load more to this topic than what I've listed, but its a start.
I would suggest Mao Tse-Tung on Guerrilla Warfare - the Samuel Griffith translation specifically. Say what you will about Mao, he is the quintessential resource on successful guerrilla operations. Unlike other guerrillas (Che in particular), Mao's methods were successfully used in numerous revolutions.
While, like much Oriental literature, Mao's book can talk around a subject in a very obtuse manner, it’s worth reading several times, slowly, and contemplating what he is saying, to fully grasp the understanding
Matthew Sanders
Depends on a lot of factors but generally I would focus on the following: Most casualties militias and rebel groups take come from injuries that can easily be treated if you have at least some medical skills. Every combatant should be capable of using tourniquets, pressure bandages, chest seals, quickclot and CPR. Keeping your force alive is probably the highest priority. Things like the German V.A.S.E (Verbindung=Connection, Aufklärung=Reconnaissance, Sicherung=Cover/Security, Erkundung=Exploration) and F.A.S.T (Feuerbereitschaft="Preparedness to engage", Auflockerung=Dispersal, Schanzen=Entrenching, Tarnen=Camouflaging) should be taught to anyone. These concepts are basically about things like: Try to stay dispersed so your group won't get wiped out by a single grenade or Acknowledge your current level of concealment and always stay as concealed as possible. Give your combatants the tools to make the right decisions especially on a small scale. Once a firefight breaks out everyone should know where to take cover, where to look and what enemy to target. There this thing called "Führen mit Auftrag"="Leading by task/mission" which is one of the things making Hezbollah so effective. You order a unit to do a task and the unit's leader will make decisions himself as he is able to estimate the situation better. This enables small units to act incredibly fast and on their own. Your machine gunners should fight like they have a machine gun and your units shouldn't sit in the same position for hours in a meeting engagement. Teach them limited penetration CQB. There are a lot of situations where dynamic entry is superior but training someone properly in dynamic entry will take weeks while limited penetration entry can be taught in hours. There are reasons why certain forces are so effective in recent conflicts. Study their strenghts and see how you can apply these.
Kayden Ward
The southfront video on how Hezbollah is organized (Hezbollah – Capabilities And Role In The Middle East) is a must see. While it doesn't go in depth in military tactics it the part on the military does give you a great example on how shit is organized in command structure and logistics for a rather small structure (basic Hezbollah units are 252 men strong).
Bentley King
Here is some history on how the organized their social infrastructure.
This is required viewing on how to organize and integrate a revolutionary organization into a society.
Brody Thomas
Does it also include on how they Deal with Infiltrators that tries to enter the Organization?
Jaxson Butler
Forgot to mention but did The Kikes (Mossad) tried to subvert anyone influencial or assassinations?
Adrian Miller
It's probably not the only method they have, but they use parallel cells with the same functions that aren't aware of each other, so if one becomes compromised, they can use the other.
There's a shitload of Dr. William Luther Pierce videos on YouTube where he'd give a weekly address, and many of them were jew-centric about the nefarious activities (including assassinations) they were up to.
Michael Perry
Thanks user, Will look it up
Poor Bastard, I hope the Lebanese have a chance to Gas IDF and Mossad
Zachary James
They are the reason we are not shooting satellites into space with giant cannons right now.
Adrian Myers
Here are some introductory videos that would be useful to watch. They cover (among other things) basic movements, firing positions, going prone, cover vs concealment, hand signals, and small unit tactics.
This is the sort of thing you will be doing a lot of if you take up arms during a revolution.
/pdf had a great thread on this and other/k material. Worth the read.
Michael Ward
There already is a revolution going on. The cultural revolution has completely warped Western nations. It didn't take violence to do it, it was just a long subversion.
The problem with prepping for a civil war is we've never seen a civil war in a nuclear country. Lets say you manage to carve out a foothold that is loyal to you and ready to fight. You kill enough people they're going to say fuck it and just erase your territory from existence. How do you prevent them from doing this other than capturing a nuclear facility and threatening them with a responding strike?
Even if you don't think the government would be willing to do it what do you do about Muslims capturing a nuclear facility? They won't care as long as they kill you and they can use dirty bombs to do it if not a direct strike.
If no one uses nukes you also need to consider third parties. Would Russia or China attempt an invasion while a civil war was happening? Who do you side with or do you try and harass two military forces at once?
Xavier Morales
Even the muzzies would consider that suicidal to their mission, Making land inhospitable is counter-intuitive. Not to mention that other nations would bomb the facility before theu got a chance to utilise it. Tldr, nuclear peek-a-boo
Also, when do you guys think that the actual fighting will start? Im trying to get prepped and I'm trying to make every second of training count.
Jonathan Cruz
Start with the best:
Anthony Lewis
Depends. Do you mean full-on civil war, secession and/or overthrowing of the government? Probably not for a little while. People love their bread and circuses; as long as the food stamps work and the Superbowl keeps going, the proles will be relatively comfortable and have no real desire to revolt. This could change if an elite, or group of elites, started moving against the current order, whipped the public into a fervor, and openly led them in revolt against the current government. But at the moment that isn't looking too likely, as the elites are themselves all too happy to toe the line and keep vying for government gibs. To put it into perspective, look at South Africa right now–the whites are getting their land stolen out from under them and they still aren't forming any kind of organized resistance, and for all the african problems we have here we're nowhere near as bad as South Africa. Nothing's going to happen until a few big guys in society start to actively organize something, and we're not even seeing murmurs of that right now–everyone wants to be a good goy.
However, that doesn't meant there's going to be no fighting whatsoever. A high-level coup of the government is much more likely than a populist revolution, and while it's bloodless by comparison that doesn't meant there won't be fighting, especially in and around cities with a high chance of chimpout. And I realize now I've rambled for quite a while without actually giving you a number answer to your question. I don't think we'll see real coup of any sort until 2024 at the earliest. Trump and his Israel shilling is far from ideal but he's still leagues better than the present alternatives, and as long as that remains true there's not a whole lot of incentive for a coup. Although between antifa starting shit the way they do and the aforementioned chimpouts there's likely to be violence even before the coup, so you should still train and keep a gun on you for protection.
Jace Phillips
That was very informative. Thanks user
Luis Perry
They're not exactly known for their intelligence now are they Strelok?
Mussies would happily lose some territory to radiation in exchange for a bloodbath.
Mason Long
A civil war torn country using a nuke on its own territory gives neocons the biggest boner they ever had. Every country which can intervene will at this point. You are right about third parties as both the US and Russia will support certain factions in case a European country is in a civil war but it will likely not turn into a boots on the ground situation. The US public support for wars is at a low that hasn't been reached since the 30s. Look at all the propaganda the US does for interventions in the Middle East. Now imagine how much lower this support will be when (56% memes aside) US soldiers are shooting their own people. The only way you could actually get the public to support a full scale war is when Russia is in one and this is the exact reason Russia will not go boots on the ground either. What you definetly can expect is the US and Russia trying their best to control the factions involved and when the locals don't realize this threat the winning faction will inevitabely end as a puppet. On the other hand you can not fight without this support as the other faction will accept it knowing you don't. Air strikes, artillery support, soldiers training your units, top tier equipment, reconnaissance and commandos fucking up the enemy are incredibly valuable. This is a double edged sword and the factions should have made up their mind on how much support they are going to accept. Accept too little and you risk losing the war. Accept too much and you end up as a puppet state.
Christopher White
Here's a tactic for you: don't bring women wearing blue shirts into the forest with you.
Nolan Bailey
How viable would a shadow shield backed with AR500 plates be? It's the perfect camouflage, and with bullet resistant plates, it should keep you alive.
Perfect for an ambush assuming you can make and print out a giant sticker for the local area to paste on within a few minutes. But after the first shot is fired you're going to dump whatever's in the mag (if even) then leave soon afterwards. Can you pack up and carry the armor thing fast enough before the first grenades start landing near you? Or are you going to just leave the barrier there? If we're talking about urban sniper shit like in syria then just using rubble or small holes in solid walls would be more plentiful and cheaper.
Carson Taylor
Depends on the application. If you're defending an area, I guess they work okay but straight camo with a suppressed rifle is more mobile or an actual structure is more defensive and has uses outside of camo plates. Attacking an area, it's pretty much useless. It'd be too heavy to carry, and if you're going to be hauling them with trucks it defeats the purpose of the camo.
tl;dr Shit's not viable at all
Jaxon White
And it doesn't do anything that a ghillie suit doesn't. And a ghillie suit is overkill in most situations. A decent camo pattern (chosen based on your AO not what looks cool), some scrim netting and some 'garnish' (local foliage from the area around you) will do in nearly all situations. Combine with slow, deliberate, tactical movement for best results.
It could be potentially viable when used in an elastic defense. For example, moving it to a position where the enemy is not expecting any resistance, then engaging and retreating before they know when they're being shot from.
That being said you would need some kind of supporting fire to not be outflanked by the enemy and they would certainly catch on to your ruse pretty quick.
Joshua Nelson
I feel like the more 'cowardly' the tactics, the better.
Like, every couple of days, just firing a round at an outpost/base with a hunting rifle and then getting the fuck out of there. Don't even spend time to see if I hit anything, just bolt.
I don't think Hezbollah's tactics would be applicable to a small scale resistance. They have quite a lot of funding which has allowed them to really dig in with intricate tunnel and bunker systems, some even with AC, and the ability to barrage civilian centres in northern Israel to the point of internally displacing a million people. Additionally they have enough stategic depth to at once allow the conquest of the vast majority of their territory fighting a war of attrition with "the villagers" while fighting advanceing parties with their better trained units even takeing out Merkavas by swarming with older anti-tank weapons. Only a extremely small amount of there tactics are actually worth copying in the scenario you've described because a) you don't know who your opposition is going to be b) you likely don't have the resources to have the strategic depth and infrastructure of hezbollah. The only bit you can realistically copy is the standard war of attrition bits, and the training/structure of "the villagers" and the organisational structure. Reading about a more traditional guerrella force would probably be more useful. Mao was mentioned earlier, I think this is a good idea.
John Collins
and yet, if he had lost we may have seen the first acts of christian salafism carried out on US soil by now. his presidency has but one purpose and that is to prolong the bread and circus for just a little longer.
Jayden Thompson
You overestimate how eager the people are to revolt. As you say yourself, as long as the bread and circus keeps up people have little reason to leave the comfort of cat videos and the Superbowl to fight and very possibly die for an abstract ideal. And even if Clinton was elected, people's standard of living wouldn't fall enough for them to get more than mildly irritated about it. Further, as attractive as the idea of a spontaneous populist revolt is, that kind of revolt is the least likely to succeed. The revolutions that work are generally top-down, with one or more unhappy elites espousing populist ideal and encouraging the common man to rise up through propaganda. At the moment, most of the elites are happy to be good goys shilling left-wing rhetoric; if Clinton had been elected that trend would continue. Trump's election creates an environment more hospitable towards elites forming opinions more favorable towards our frame of mind, and as a result is better in the long run for any kind of takeover.
Evan Kelly
I think you're right. We can't start out being like Hezbollah. We would have to build up our strength slowly, make safe areas of operation, train agents in how to live/work in contested zones, build up several sources of revenue, and so on. Just like Hezbollah did when they started out.
I agree that Hezbollah style tactics and organization would be ideal when we have the capability and numbers, but we need something to bridge the gap in the mean time.
Ian Cook
Fraying the enemy's nerves is all well and good, but that takes time. A well placed snipers bullet is more effective - it takes out an enemy soldier and impacts enemy morale.
Also, if you only ever fire in the enemy's direction and never hit anything you leave yourself open to enemy PSYOPS.
"They are scared to target our troops!" "They are poorly trained and can't hit us!" "They are dangerous, but pose no real threat to the state." "Their defeat is inevitable."
Joseph Morris
Hezbollah didn't really have to do any of those things because it's was originally a confederation of local shia militias trying to fill the role of the PLO (including the state within a state) after they were forced to leave in the first lebanon-israeli war. Hezbollah mostly took these existing institutions and got large allies of syria, north korea, and iran to train them and supply them with weapons. It's actually very rare that something like what you're talking about actually occurs these days. Successful militias almost never pull them selves up by their boot straps, they almost always have external training and supply. That's not to say it's impossible just that you should look to the organisation which did this rather than the ones who didn't for insperation. Certain things can be taken from Hezbollah but like I said they should be primarily organisational, because that bit actually can be replicated in contrast to tactics, training, etc.
Grayson Howard
OK, so what non-Hezbollah tactics/organizations should we use instead?
Ian Phillips
none. the criticisms he has leveled in terms of no financing, no resources, no outside support, contingent historical and geographic factors, and so on, can be leveled against nearly every upstart guerrilla movement in history. he says to take advice from mao but even he and the ccp had some support from the soviets when they weren't busy throwing things at the kmt and ask Zig Forums about how the jews supported mao. many early militias during the chinese civil war were all factions from military infighting so they already had existing training and access to seized resources. mao's allegedly greatest uses of guerrilla war also came during a time when his enemies were also fighting the japanese. most importantly much of commie history is written by either lying commies or lying western academics. mao used deception many times in things that weren't war. read chang's "mao: the unknown story". a lot of mao's battle wins that purportedly happened were made up by the commies to create myths and legends about them. if that is the case, how reliable is mao's strategy for everyone not a lying commie?
saged for guerilla larp thread.
Samuel Ross
Forgive my ignorance, but what does "saged" mean?
Grayson Brown
It means lurk more.
Hudson Martinez
This is why old Zig Forums always chased away Zig Forums larpers: blatant newfags.
Kevin Clark
Mao's china wasn't why I suggested reading mao, more for what it did in other countries like Peru. My understanding is that Shining Path and the derivative organisations had no outside funding. is a much more sound critique, there isn't a english nation with a rebel tradition (other than Ireland?)
Just to answer your question more directly, I think that we should take a critical look into the sources, tactics, and training of rebels operating in the 21st and late 20th century which made progress toward their goals without external funding and training. Specifically Shining Path, Zapitistas, Nepal's PLA, FARC, FSLN, etc. As well as a critical look at the organisational structure of Hezbollah similar to in the following thread: Creating a full list of these organisations and collecting books would be a good start.
Evan Sanchez
Why not use the terrorist method, and create small, cells, that sleep, until activated? Learn the tactics of your enemies, then use them against them. A community is way too big. A series of networked cells, with little or no knowledge of the others existence, other than that, they do exist, should be more than sufficient to cause real change.
A small, band of brothers type "cell network" connected only by an ideology and loosely connected logistics and strategic planning, is much more effective and efficient, in the long run.
If you wanted to be bold, create multi cell activities, like destroying a Sharia controlled neighborhood.
Nolan Harris
no way, you give up quite a lot you really don't have to with that setup. Namely you can't get any sort of coordination or support between cells, that's surrendering a massive amount of tactile opportunity for organisational simplicity. Not to mention the difficulty of managing mass production of things like bombs and the improvements of scale of logistics. What you really want is to distribute logistical tasks like making bombs and driving trucks to the cells but still retain a central command capable of conducting macro level tactile maneuvers and support in such a manner that if central command collapses individuals cells can stand on their own despite becoming a tacticly dramatically weaker organisation. You don't want to decapitate your organisation for no reason.
Nathan Sanders
You've described post-1977 PIRA organizational structure, their cells were known as Active Service Units and consisted of be five to eight men capable of operating separately from the provisional leadership and quartermaster. Each ASU could source it's own arms, gather intelligence, could muster it's own logistics, ect… when required, but could function as apart of the larger PIRA structure.
Christopher Kelly
Found this over at Zig Forums - looks like LARPing to me. What do you think?
And what do people think of fixed defensive positions? On the one hand, they leave you vulnerable to being encircled and wiped out (eg Waco, Ruby Ridge). On the other hand, if you have several fixed positions and can retreat from one to another as need dictates you can have a kind of "elastic defense" that can adapt to the local situation.
I really know very little of PIRA, and the irish revlutionary/independence movement in general. That's very interesting, I'll have to track down a good book or two.
Michael Martinez
The first image is too specific as it is made for the US. Europe is far too urbanized for this to work. You also don't need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to revolutions. If you want to make Fascism mainstream then look at how the NSDAP managed to do this in Germany. For revolutions in general just look at the ones that have been successful and try to compare them to current situations.
War has never been as mobile as it is today. Fixed defensive positions have their purpose but the most important thing in combat currently is the freedom and ability to manuever. Multiple fixed positions with a tunnel system, a nearby forest and IEDs are a good mix but this setup can be expanded. Stalling the enemy is heavily underestimated and can be done by things like simply placing a fake IED on a road the enemy will pass.
Hunter Turner
Fixed positions - depends on who you are fighting. Against an army you would be better off using guerrilla warfare tactics. Unless you have multiple fixed positions connected via tunnel system, a nearby forest (or some other environment that can give you an advantage when moving/escaping) and IEDs.
Against militias? Could work. If they don't have too many "heavy" weapons (mortars and rocket launchers). WWI style trenches could work against a large group that only has small arms (rifles, machine guns, and perhaps the odd rocket launcher).
Long story short - don't use a tactic because it looks cool. Use tactics that are calculated to work against the enemy you are going to fight. If the chosen tactic works, keep using it. If it stops working, or never really worked to begin with, alter it to make it work or stop using it.
In urban, static entrenchment changes things. For the people in the emplacement, they need the capability to withstand seige, else they will die of thirst. For the attacker it is a nightmare that pretty much guarantees artillery, bombing or risking armor if the emplacement must be overcame it the objective it guards is that valuable.
There is also an unstated advantage: one day it could be manned, and the next abandoned. It can play in psychological warfare a bit.
Jose Sullivan
Download “From Dictatorship to Democracy
William Cox
Non violent revolutions? You mean like the occupy movement that was ignored by the government (as it wasn't a threat), that the media got bored with (as nothing exciting happened), which meekly moved on when the police started using force against them? Well, the ones who didn't grow bored with being part of the movement, or
You might be able to have a relatively non-violent revolution where few people die, but unless you are able to damage the state/regime you can't defeat it. The state/regime isn't going to politely give up power just because a group of hippies demands it.
Andrew Roberts
I call it VVX it’s about 5/6 as toxic as VX since it contains VC and other V-series contaminants but it has a much higher vaporization pressure so it is more easily aerosoled and it is extremely persistent which makes it good for area denial. VX is O-Ethyl S-(2-diisopropylaminoethyl) methylphosphonothioate VVX is O-Ethyl S-(2-dimethylaminoethyl) methylphosphonothioate.
into a very dry 2000 ml round bottom flask, the following ingredients are added, quickly, one after the other with swirling to mix them a few boiling chips, 800 ml anhydrous ethyl ether, 284 grams of methyl ethoxyphosphoryl chloride, 212 grams of dimethylaminoethanethiol, and 212 grams of triethylamine. it is very important that the glassware be very dry, and that the ingredients espescially the methyl ethoxyphosphoryl chloride be protected from moisture, because the presence of water really lowers the yield in this this reaction.
when the ingredients have been added and mixed, a good efficient condenser topped with a drying tube is attached to the flask and a flow of very cold water is put trought the condenser . the contents of the flask are heated to boiling with a hot water bath and the reflux is maintened for one hour.
the byproduct of this reaction, hydrogen chloride, is absorbed by the tiethylamine as it is produced, forming triethylamine hydrochloride cristal cristal at the end of the eating period, the mixture is cooled and the cristal of triethylamine hydrochloride are filtred out in a Buchner funnel.
the filtered reaction mixture is then returned to 2000 ml round bottom flask, a few boiling chips added, the glassware set up for simple distillation and the ether removed by distilling it of under a gentle vacuum.an aspirator is perfect for this job since it will flush the ether fumes down the drain.
when most of the ether is gone, the mixture is poured into a 1000 ml round bottom flask with a few boiling chips. the remnants in the 2000 ml flask can be rinsed out with ether an poured into the 1000 ml flask. once again this flask is set up for a simple distillation and full aspirator is applied to it. the last of the triethylamine and ether (bp 88 C°) will be gone shortly.
now a vacuum from a good quality vacuum pump is applied to the distillation. A vacuum of less 1 mmHg is to be preferred here to keep the distillation temperatures reasonable and to avoid burning product. BE CAREFUL THE PUMP MUST NOT BE STOPPED DURING THE DISTILLATION. IF THE PUMP STOPS, RUN OUT AND NEVER COME BACK !!! after a small forerun is collected in a 250 ml flask, a 500 ml flask is attached and the main bulk of the product is collected at a boiling point of 80 C° at a vacuum of 0.6 mmHg.
the yield is 260 to 275 ml of product. a fair amount of tar remains in the distilling flask. you have now VVX agent. NOTE THAT UNLIKE VX THIS IS NOT A BINARY IT'S FUMES ARE LETHAL UPON COMPLETION OF THE RUN IN PARTS PER BILLION AND UNLESS DEACTIVATED WITH CHLORINE OR OXIDIZED IN THE OPEN AIR WILL REMAIN SO INDEFINITELY
This material is completely legal in the USA though moving the product on a state highway may be illegal depending on the quantity and your licensing.
These instructions are intended for educational purposes only, in no way would I suggest any other use for this material ;)
Jackson Jenkins
That's fucking idiotic, i'm studying and therefore surrounded by young normies, all they think about is partying and the like. these aren't starving farmers, they don't have the reasons or skills to wage a war. I see a war happening in Europe somewhat soon, but a troubles tier conflict, nowhere near a proper civil war anytime soon.
Someone really should make some PDF versions of these articles, and all the other ones…
Luis Howard
If anyone in the USA wants a Baofeng, get it now, FCC is blocking import and sales of non-compliant sets. This will also apply to any other brand of two-way VHF/UHF sets not in compliance.
How would Zig Forums suggest people go about training? For example, say a Zig Forumsommando wanted to learn how to do recon/security patrols. Getting someone to train them would of course be the best option (assuming they either know a soldier/ex soldier, or can go to a school that teaches those kind of skills). But if that isn't an option, is it possible to read/watch the right kind of books/videos and then practice as best you can? I fear that the latter will be the best I can do given my country of residence. I also fear that it will result in me thinking I am getting good at something when I am not due to my lack of a frame of reference when it comes to field-craft.
Landon Morris
Happy I got mine last year. I troll hamfags with it when I get bored
Logan Phillips
Wait wait, the abbo shitcunt put in wordfilters now? Lolberturdianism at it's finest, again, kek
Isaiah Powell
The book "The Ultimate Sniper" came under criticism because some Iraqi resistance sniper called Juba claimed to have trained by it and successfully killed over 20 US soldiers. The case is propaganda because "Juba" was the whole sniper unit and not just a single guy. Looking past the propaganda this reveals something interesting. You can take average joes from a backward country and turn them into deadly fighters by using a single book. Imagine the potential you have with dozens or even hundreds of manuals to train from. Of course this will never beat combat experience but it is better than nothing.
Caleb Reyes
Intriguing and encouraging.
Logan Reyes
The anons suggesting that you learn infrastructure such as plumbing and electrical gridding are correct. Not only can you keep your own facilities running cleanly, you can also kill the supply line of the enemy.
It takes WEEKS to fix a destroyed power grid, and only takes seconds with bolt cutters to take one down properly. Use your knowledge to decentralize yourself for protection, and hit them where it hurts. No more netflix, no more cable, no more propaganda. No more lights, no more water, no more heat. Civilians without distractions are revolutionaries.
