McMaken: You Can't Be Both "Pro Military" And "Pro Second Amendment"

McMaken: You Can't Be Both "Pro Military" And "Pro Second Amendment"

zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-30/mcmaken-you-cant-be-both-pro-military-and-pro-second-amendment

uthored by Ryan McMaken via The Mises Institute,

The phrase "pro-gun, pro-military" is used by some conservatives to describe themselves, as if the two go together seamlessly. For example, activist and political candidate Erin Cruz states she is both "Pro Second Amendment" and "Pro Military" in her promotional materials.

Another Republican candidate, Gregory Duckworth, advertises that he advances "pro-gun and pro-military initiatives."

And last year, Donald Trump, Jr. - as part of a controversy over Keurig coffee pulling its advertising from Sean Hannity's show — denounced Keurig and endorsed Black Rifle Coffee, which is advertised as a company with a "pro-gun and pro-military stance."

And yet, there is an inherent conflict between the two positions. This becomes evident when we consider the words of US Senator Tom Coburn in 2013:

The Second Amendment wasn't written so you can go hunting, it was to create a force to balance a tyrannical force here.

Given that the US military is one of the primary means by which the US government can exert its own coercive force, it seems a bit odd to think that one can simultaneously be "pro-military" while also being for gun rights designed to "balance a tyrannical force here."

Even the left, which is prone to an especially high level of confusion when it comes to the gun issue, has identified the conflict with memes such as this:

After all, we hear constantly from "pro-military" advocates that the military suffers greatly from too little spending on its needs, that Barack Obama cut back military spending to the bone, and that, in general, the military is underfunded. Never mind, of course, that US military spending is larger than the next seven biggest spenders combined, or that

The US Navy is about ten times bigger than the next largest navy, which happen to be its close ally, the Royal Navy. The United States has four air forces, one for each service, and all very capable … the US Army has dozens of powerful brigade combat teams and dominates potential rivals in any form of conventional warfare. The US Marine Corps is much bigger than any comparable force. And US special operations forces are about the same size as all elements of the Canadian military.

If one is concerned about providing "balance" against abuse of government power, it would seem that pushing for a few more AR-15s in private hands isn't really going to make a critical difference.

The Authors of the Second Amendment Were Anti-Militarists

The fact that many Americans today think it is possible to be both pro-Second Amendment and pro-military at the same time would have struck many Americans of the Revolutionary period as exceptionally odd.

After all, at the time of the ratification of the new Constitution — and the writing of the Second Amendment — Americans were notable for their opposition to a permanent and powerful military force — especially in the form of a so-called "standing army."

Greatly distrustful of putting military power in the hands of the federal government, the authors of the Second Amendment advocated instead for a far larger decentralized and locally controlled militia. Thus, in the nineteenth century, both state and local militias greatly outweighed federal military power, and it was assumed that any large standing force would have to be composed of state units supplied by state governments. In practice — until the late twentieth century — state governments could veto these deployments. Even statemilitia power was suspect, if it was full-time and professionalized. Thus, the concept of the "unorganized" militiaretained significant support even into the early twentieth century. Today, however, these checks on federal power have been abolished, thus that which is "pro-military" is now necessary pro federal military.

Nor was this opposition to a national army unique to the Americans. The concept had already been well-established in English politics going back at least to the English civil war. At the time, opponents of unchecked monarchical power supported and obtained a decentralized non-professional militia system designed to partially supplant a standing army under the control of the king.

Attached: military-guns-question.png (500x500, 84.3K)

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogface_(military)
liveleak.com/view?t=deb_1486876926
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Sure wish that if you were gonna post gay space-wasting shit like this you'd at least have the decency to use a Canadian proxy

Counterpoints:
By his wording of "more AR-15s in private hands", McMaken seems to assume that wanting AR-15s to be available to civilians is the furthest pro-gun position. He seemingly discounts wanting to further relax or eliminate gun control measures such as automatics or large caliber weapons.
Both mostly useless in a insurgency conflict.
A larger force requires a larger logistics structure, which is easier to attack. Even with the size of these military branches, the armed forces are heavily outnumbered by armed civilians. Finally, what percentage of those forces do you expect to remain loyal when ordered to turn against the civilians they joined up to protect?
Warfare and global politics is completely different than in that time period, both in scale and complexity.
Excellent, then let's start getting rid of the laws that make them impossible. I'd say that's pretty "pro-gun", wouldn't you?

Attached: 1435457968044.png (1775x811, 107.74K)

Going by history? 100%

Attached: marvelouslyelastic.jpg (1930x1600, 997.13K)

That's not how I read it at all. He's not making a statement about what's the most "pro-gun", he's saying that making it easier for the guys with ARs to take out the military by making the military smaller is just as important as making sure the populace is armed in the first place.

Perhaps in direct combat, but those are definitely a big advantage on a logistics level, and would allow the ZOG machine to move troops and materiel much more rapidly than the insurgents. Especially in the early part of the conflict, during which the feds would have air superiority.

You're not wrong, but the more outnumbered they are the better, right? If the happening ever actually happens I'd prefer to lose as few of you fags to the enemy as possible no homo.

It's honestly hard to say. The US has been very good at churning out the goodest of good goys when it comes to the military.

Then let's change it so it's less different. Or do you think being the world police for goatfuckers and dying for Israel is a preferable state of affairs?

I don't think the author would disagree with you here, so I'm not certain what point you're trying to make.

Exactly, that's why Yugoslavia is still such a well tied together single country, because during the breakup 100% of the soldiers backed up the central state instead of breaking up and taking part in the independence and ethnic wars of their various peoples. Also, coups have never, ever taken place in history either. Good to know.

That clearly seem the opinion of a well educated person…

For those who also haven't looked at the Royal Navy since 1946.
1x LPD
6x (European) DDG
13x (13x CW) frigates
6x (3x CW) subs

Let's take a random third world navy.
Algerian navy:
1x LPD
8x (3x CW) frigates
15x soviet style corvettes.
6x (2xCW) subs
The world clearly trembles before the might of the Empire navy.

Britbongs friends don't even look at countries that have always had medium sized fleets, it's hurtful to me I can't imagine what it must be to you.

The military will do what it's told to do.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogface_(military)

Attached: aa_eisenhower_littlerock_3_e.jpg (800x681 224.24 KB, 110.94K)

Also, the right of arms isn't just about outright full on total war rebellion situations, which everyone seems to automatically assume. We forget that weapons and resistance also prevent sometimes good authority from exercising its power (favelas, bad neighborhoods left Mad Max) but also works against evil governments doing evil things (who will enforce tyranny if good armed men fight back against it?)


Good peace officers will gladly use deadly force to kill dangerous criminals who are dangerous to the public, even put their own lives on line. Bad cops are corrupt and cowards and may be sought out by evil governments because they need corrupt people to serve bad laws and policy, caveat is they are almost always cowards who pick on those who don't fight back, but are often not willing to die in a real fight to enforce a law they themselves could give a flying fuck about. Tyrant's are petty people who want petty bullies to serve their will, and bullies don't like real fights and resistance.

"We're going to confiscate every house in that nation" piles of dead tyrants will slow down and possibly stop this. If they try to go house to house steal their houses for the sake of a corrupt central state/socialism it won't be a mass rebellion they have to worry about but 100,000,000 fights as men refuse to give up their homes. They try to kidnap your kids, take your neighbors to gulag, piles of dead tyrants will make them think twice. Force the entire nation into mass servitude of slavery? Wait for the "truancy" officers to start turning up dead at people's door steps. Any type of insane tyranny will meet unorganized, sporadic resistance, the kind the state can't find a leader too and negotiate surrender and force mass compliance.

The state can eat lions whole but will be consumed by ants They don't fear an open rebellion so much as a surly population that won't tolerate, on an individual level, insane radical totalitarianism and will fight back in an individual fashion. One rebellion might be easy (if the military doesn't coup and overthrow the nutjobs, which they tend to do instead of following orders) but 90,000,000 guns each resisting one at a time is something the state can't deal with. It demand gun control because it wants absolute insane compliance with every single whim it creates, individual resistance on a massive level (completely different then mass rebellion) will fuck it up to the point it can't work.

Lots of dead cops in this image.

Attached: REU-USA-EXPLOSIONS_BOSTON_003.jpg (1200x891, 280.43K)

Better armed than at of countries.

When did cops stop being cops?

Attached: war.jpg (580x314, 33.63K)

I really don't think this applies to many Americans here. So far as I can tell Zig Forums Americans want less military intervention overseas in places such as Isreal and less spending on military money pits like the F-35. Meanwhile we also want the option to buy tanks with functioning main guns and no ATF in the way.
What I want personally is better allocation of resources, which would result in the same or better equipment at a lower cost. But the MIC is corrupt at the highest levels so I'm not holding my breath.

The right to bear has nothing to do with that.
It comes second because it's THE CORE of the democratic thought.

Rule n°1: You're allowed to say whatever the fuck you want.
>You're allowed to THINK whatever the fuck you want.
Rule n°2: You're allowed to always have weapons.

That right there is THE BASIS of democratic society.

People that are against weapons (and I don't mean guns. I mean WEAPONS. If you don't trust your neighbor with a WMD maybe you shouldn't trust Obama or Trump with it…) in the hand of the people are against the CORE CONCEPT democracy, which is fellow citizen are equal and therefore must trust each other.

Not even gonna read it, what kind of bullshit is this? It's on the level of willful retardation like

The military IS the armed public, you fucking shit for brains. All the organizational hierarchy is just details. The founding fathers wrote it black on white, in plain language:
and people STILL pretend to misunderstand it.

Consider me fucking triggered.

Holy XX-Large Regular Tubman! Why are police forces permitted to get this huge?

Attached: 1f3m.jpg (803x737, 66.8K)

Low standards. You should see how bad they are when shooting to qualify since rangetime is optional.

And yet of the examples in American history of a President turning tyranny on his own people there was a near zero percent refusal rate.In the pictured instance the one instance of non-compliance (Heart Mountain Fair Play Committee) was attacked by the government's victims.

Cutting military spending is something only literal cucks would do. Not being pro-seccond amendment is also something only cucks would be. And the reason is simple: A strong patriotic nation requires better military than anyone who might oppose them. And a strong patriotic population requires weapons to defend themselves against both criminals and the enemy.

The military is only your enemy when the government isn't Nationalist. And if your government isn't Nationalist then the problem lies with the voters which means the patriotic pro-second amendment men need to solve by themselves with immediate action.

How are people so stupid and lazy they take a job where there is an elevated chance they will need to defend themselves with a firearm and then neglect to train with that firearm?

For most of the country
For urbanites

Spectacular argument if I do say so myself, Grecian.

Attached: supermanreally.jpg (720x533 47.82 KB, 19.52K)

But if we used our military spending on actual defense reasons rather than going to war in shithole countries or having bases in faggy countries, we would be able to make the US border (both land and sea) into a gigantic ultra-fortress straight out of 40K with enough men to occupy it. Don't you want to see that in your lifetime?

This is fallacy that leads straight to spending all GDP on the military and making civilians serfs maintaining military machine.

I see where you coming from, you are just overreacting to the wrong policies of opposite nature and over swing.

Yugoslavia was destroyed because they had an audacity to try a build political alliance that didn't include Germany or Russia called Quadra- Penta- and ultimately Heksagonale after the number of countries that were involved in it.

That's an issue of getting rid of 6 million jews in United States who control American politics and perception of reality.

Yes, that's right goy! If you're not ready to fight and defend Greater Israel you're a cuck!

You mean an actual border with towers for guards and drones to survey the the land and not 62.5 miles of fencing?

Personally, I wouldn't mind being sent down to Mexico to go kill some Metzo Cartel members.
It's pretty wild what goes on in Mexican cities.
liveleak.com/view?t=deb_1486876926

Attached: 206772c35026144dc5bee1c1cc665d6b3039f24b162d0c7fb49f22c9d3fae531.gif (736x627, 942.03K)

well the some of the Japanese Americans were eager to join up and show their loyalty, the 442nd Inf Regiment.
"The 442nd Regiment is the most decorated unit in the history of American warfare. The 4,000 men who initially made up the unit in April 1943 had to be replaced nearly two times. In total, about 14,000 men served, earning 9,486 Purple Hearts. The unit was awarded eight Presidential Unit Citations (five earned in one month). Twenty-one of its members were awarded Medals of Honor. Its motto was "Go for Broke". "


this guy gets it.

most people in the military that I know are very serious about thier oath to the constitution. tip of the spear people are usually patriots so I would think patriots would resist any illegal order against american civilians.

The Constitution is strong.

Attached: 800px-442nd_US_Army_RCT_squad_leader_in_france.jpg (1280x1038 113.31 KB, 312.73K)

This
USA army has no problem in turning against its own people and even fellow servicemembers
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

Thanks for reminding me of what a high-minded cunt MacArthur was.

Wew. I want my army to genocide half the Balkans and a good part of the middle east. All for revenge. Israel has nothing to do with it retard. Not everyone has 0 history and 0 natural enemies.

and soldiers with conviction within the army will hopefully act to stop such illegal abuses of power and illegal orders. Like how it happened at My Lai

" Thompson landed and told his crew that if the soldiers shot at the Vietnamese while he was trying to get them out of the bunker that they were to open fire on these soldiers."

This is a better example

Attached: 79ba0a875a519647bc7c32e7f4a3b15522684e88f6fde4b36cf73866ae1faa67.jpg (1024x695, 254.09K)

Yugoslavia is nothing like the US and comparing the two is laughable

...

the 101st signed up to protect some cornfed bully? nah. Eagles lead the way.

the military swears an oath to uphold the constitution. desegregation was decided by the supreme court and implemented by the president. constitution.

you'd be more accurate posting pictures of kent state.

Someday when the supream court signs a law into effect to seize your weapons and freedom I can see some funny images of your skull getting bashed in by the noble american military.

Federal dick licker mindset.
I would like to know how many military drones have actually read through the constitution and know what it means. How many LEOs and soldiers have actually disregarded orders that are contrary to the constitution or otherwise betray the oath they made? How many have made active efforts to stop these violations?

only an amendment could do that after DC vs Heller.

despite your flag I begiun to think you do not know the US constitution. check out the image and the constitution if you would like to know more.


the issue really lies at the feet of the people. soldiers and LEOs will do what they can but it is the up to the voters ultimately. rememeber For the People, By the People, Of the People. We get the government we deserve. We can fix it through daily peaceful means and actions or can let it fester.

Attached: intro to us civics.jpg (886x900, 86.02K)

Virtually all retroactive upgrades. The same government that locked them up also stiffed them on medals after using them as cannon fodder.

...

I think they all clearly deserved it

"As his squad distracted the third machine gunner, Lt. Inouye crawled toward the final bunker, coming within 10 yards. As he raised himself on his left elbow and cocked his right arm to throw his last hand grenade, a German soldier saw Inouye and fired a 30mm Schiessbecher antipersonnel rifle grenade from inside the bunker, which struck Inouye directly on his right elbow. The high explosive grenade failed to detonate, saving Lt. Inouye from instant death but amputating most of his right arm at the elbow (except for a few tendons and a flap of skin) via blunt force trauma. Despite this gruesome injury, Lt. Inouye was again saved from likely death due to the blunt, low-velocity grenade tearing the nerves in his arm unevenly and incompletely, which involuntarily squeezed the grenade tightly via a reflex arc instead of going limp and dropping it at Inouye's feet. However, this still left him crippled, in terrible pain, under fire with minimal cover and staring at a live grenade "clenched in a fist that suddenly didn't belong to me anymore."[13]
Inouye's horrified soldiers moved to his aid, but he shouted for them to keep back out of fear his severed fist would involuntarily relax and drop the grenade. As the German inside the bunker began hastily reloading his rifle with regular full metal jacket ammunition (replacing the wood-tipped rounds used to propel rifle grenades), Inouye quickly pried the live hand grenade from his useless right hand and transferred it to his left. The German soldier had just finished reloading and was aiming his rifle to finish him off when Lt. Inouye threw his grenade through the narrow firing slit, killing the German. Stumbling to his feet with the remnants of his right arm hanging grotesquely at his side and his Thompson in his off-hand, braced against his hip, Lt. Inouye continued forward, killing at least one more German before suffering his fifth and final wound of the day (in his left leg), which finally halted his one-man assault for good and sent him tumbling unconscious to the bottom of the ridge. He awoke to see the worried men of his platoon hovering over him. His only comment before being carried away was to gruffly order them back to their positions, saying "Nobody called off the war!""

...

We don't want to revolt, the idea of the second ammendment is the potential for us to revolt if need be.

There would be some, but there's no guarantee how many, and you're better off assuming none of them because having too much faith in patriotic retards is itself retarded.
Especially considering numilitary zogbots are as cucked as ever.

The JNA was mostly Serbs at the time of the war, since Belgrade managed to retain control of it. There just happened to be massive stores of private military equipment hanging around, as was the custom in late 90s Slavistan. So again, the military didn't defect, it was just fairly weak and privately owned guns were common. Also it was an ethnic conflict. Such circumstances do not exist.

Red meme planner detected.

Never said they didn't. Indeed
implies the opposite

Attached: Tell me more.PNG (336x481, 171.65K)

Go back to cuckchan with your racemixing propaganda.

Yugoslavia figured out that neither Russia nor Germany should control the affairs of all the other countries in Europe after the fall of soviet union so they along with Italy, Austria and Hungary came up with a non-zogged version of european union which later invited Czechoslovakia to become pentagonale, and heksagonale after Poland was invited, but unfortunately Yugoslavia (((BALKANIZED™))) completely on its own and it didn't go anywhere, funny how that happened.
originally Piłsudski had a similar idea called intermarium to have a central-european block from Finland to Hungary so there is an actual alliance which will fight against bolsheviks, unfortunately it didn't work out in time

They're a wing of the government and pawns of the Rothschilds. Their aims are not to protect the public but to serve the mercantile interests of political families and banking dynasties. They should only be trusted as far as you can throw them because jack-booted thugs do not grow on trees.

They have no intention to weave a blanket of security for you to lie under but a net to trap you and drag you away. That is why you must knit your own blanket.

>Yugoslavia (((BALKANIZED™))) completely on its own and it didn't go anywhere
Don't forget it would also be a threat to importing more niggers into Europe. Tiny Serbia can't stop it, but Yugoslavia backed by central Europe could have easily prevented every boat from landing.

Attached: desire to know more intensifies.png (640x512, 38.75K)

I'm libertarian solely because the government is shit and I dont trust them. If the government was ok Id be pretty natsoc

I'm pretty sure that's what happened to Zig Forums as well.

You're libertarian solely because you're retarded.
What's stopping you from creating a NatSoc party? Too apathetic to save your people or too scared of opposition?

Takes a frank to defend democracy. It's like it's on your blood to have atrocious ideals.

So nothing but bullshit. But seriously the reality is that, tyranny is inherently human nature. Humans are inherently oppressive to each other by our own nature. As such tyranny will always exist. It doesn’t matter wether the tyranny is done by the state or by private groups. One group of people will always oppress another group. The question is who’s at the top, and who’s at the bottom? Libertarianism is a libtard pipedreame. It’s incompatible with natural law and the inherit selfishness with people.

Bullshit, many ideological groups have an active fifth column in there countries military. Just look at the amount of Russian Tzarist soldiers who joined the Red Army.

America is Yugoslavia with Nukes.

Attached: OctoberRevolution.jpg (309x475 236.69 KB, 99.16K)

There's a gray scale between absolutely anarchy to tyranny, retard.

Benevolent dictatorship exists, and sometimes it's the best government.

Seeing that he's from Australia they'd probably arrest his ass.

Attached: 1423617528262.png (683x623, 316.4K)

Considering we have pro assad and syrian civil war threads, I doubt anyone here is pro invasion of Iraq either…

yeah adding on to this: our unipolar neoliberal earth is a deviation from the bipolar foreign policy of the soviet era. Yet that was the result of the post ww1 status quo which dismantled the austrohungarian empire and strong states in central europe. Now that the deck is being reshuffled you are seeing that 3rd faction show up again (glimpses of it in visegrad and elsewhere).

Also it should be mentioned that yugoslavia was functional and the interethnic shitshow didnt really come into being until after the IMF gave usurious (read: impossible to pay) loans to constituent republics of the SFR yugoslavia. some terms being alleviated were contingent on secession. So the neoliberal elite had designs upon the balkans for some time and wanted to knock over the most prominent non aligned state now that the soviets were out of the game.

the operative question is how many disobeyed orders/revolted
It should be noted that Yugoslavia (with the exception of the Albanians Tito allowed into kosovo and montenegro) had *more* common heritage and ethnic identity than 56% era Estados Unidos.