Hydrogen powered vehicles,not batteries the way of the future...eventually

The dirty little secret about clean cars is that a decade after Tesla Inc. left hydrogen technology in the dust by putting its first all-electric sedan on the road, automobile executives still think cars that emit only water are the way of the future.

“We’ll keep the fuel-cell technology in development so that we have this technology option should there be a shift in the market,” said Ola Kaellenius, head of development at Daimler AG, which is about to market its GLC F-Cell sport utility vehicle that can drive 500 kilometers on a single tank.

A KPMG survey last year found most senior automotive executives believe battery-powered cars will ultimately fail, with hydrogen offering the true breakthrough for electric mobility. That’s what Japan is banking on—Toyota Motor Corp. is making a big bet it will triumph over batteries.

Of the almost 1,000 officials polled by the Dutch advisory, some 78 percent said hydrogen cars will prevail because their tanks can be filled in minutes, making recharging times of 25-45 minutes for battery options “seem unreasonable.”

Elon Musk famously dismissed fuel cells as “mind-bogglingly stupid”

You wouldn’t guess it by looking on the roads or in auto showrooms today. Just compare BMW’s one fuel-cell car to its plans for 10 battery-powered models by 2022 and you can get a sense of how far behind hydrogen has fallen.

When zero-emission transport first captured the public imagination in the 1990s, hydrogen was just as promising as batteries, not least because fuel cells can run for a lot longer. Unlike liquid gasoline or diesel, a tank of pressurized hydrogen creates electricity by chemically fusing with oxygen in the air.

“It almost feels like a Betamax versus VHS moment,” said Justin Benson, KPMG’s U.K. head of automotive, referring to the war between rival videotape formats in the late 1970s that VHS, considered technologically inferior, eventually won. “It’s not beyond the wits of man to move to hydrogen relatively quickly, if organizations wanted to do it.”

There are pockets of investment. Japan wants fuel-cell cars and buses made by its automakers to transport athletes during the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, and California has spent $100 million building fueling stations. But China, the biggest car market, is going full tilt in the switch to battery-powered cars to combat air pollution.

2016, Munich became the first city to offer a car-sharing service—called BeeZero—comprising only fuel-cell-powered hatchbacks. Each of the 50 H2-powered Hyundai ix35s available to rent can run 600 kilometers on one tank, compared with 200 kilometers for BMW AG’s battery-powered i3. But BeeZero has struggled against BMW AG-owned DriveNow, a 700-large fleet of battery- and fuel-powered rental cars. Linde said it would close it on June 30 because it’s not “economically viable.”

Cost is part of the problem. Huge investments in lithium-ion battery technology are quickly pushing prices down of this segment of electric vehicles. A BMW i3 retails for 37,550 euros ($46,200), compared with at least 65,450 euros ($80,600) for the Hyundai ix35.

Add to that the limited availability of fuel-cell filling stations and how tricky it is to extract hydrogen from other elements it binds to, and plug-in electric cars feels more immediately feasible. There are four hydrogen stations in and around Munich, and a total of 30 in Germany, compared with hundreds of public charging stations for batteries.


bloomberg.com/hyperdrive

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patents.google.com/patent/US4105517
thedrive.com/news/19614/tesla-model-x-crash-ends-in-fatal-accident-for-mountain-view-driver
eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_imports
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iirc it also takes a good deal more energy to harvest the hydrogen then you get out of the fuel cell, so its pretty ghey for that reason too

So hydrogen is the future then.

>(((hydrogen)))

the headline and the article are contradictory

Its the same with a battery.
It takes more energy to generate the electricity than what you get out.

Good
Bad

Ive seen inside one of those tiny handheld hydrogen fuel cells and they dont store the hydrogen as liquid they store it chemically bonded with some type of metal (in powder form).
I guess this helps with the evaporation problem and energy density.

I guess its different in cars though.

This technology is literally centuries old.

Electricity can be affordable and hydrogen is 10 times dangerous than petroleum.
Golf karts master race.

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Electric cars are just coal-powered cars tbh.

In the 1970s one of my distant relatives patented a novel method of separating the hydrogen from oxygen in water using sunlight and a catalyst. He told me, in the late 1970s, that there is enough sunlight falling on a square, 144 miles on each side, to power the entire nation by this method. He called it "solar fuel." It can be distributed using existing pipeline infrastructure, just upgrade the seals to handle this small element. This process has been refined by other scientists, and is only waiting to see the light of day. It is much more efficient than simple electrolysis. It is a government patent, so anyone can develop it without paying royalties. Your tax dollars at work.
patents.google.com/patent/US4105517

Metal hydride tanks take longer to fill than simply compressing the gas, but refueling your car would be a simple tank exchange, like those propane tank exchanges outside grocery stores. You might have two or three of these tanks in your vehicle, and change them as one empties out. You give the gas station the empty, and get a full one for the price of the fuel. Hydride tanks are far safer than gasoline tanks.

And you can get cooked in an electric car crash Just as badly as in a gasoline car crash, if the batteries are seriously damaged.
thedrive.com/news/19614/tesla-model-x-crash-ends-in-fatal-accident-for-mountain-view-driver

Shut it down.

At least coal comes from the U.S.
You'd rather burn Muslim oil?

US uses most of its own gas supply as well
eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_imports

A working engine that ran on tap water was created by some guy during the late 80's / early 90's but he was murdered and the schematics were destroyed.

...

No it wasn't

That doesn't sound very likely. Water is a very stable compound, which would make it a poor fuel source. It takes energy to extract energy from fuel, for gasoline it is spark plugs to ignite the fuel, for diesel it is pressure, for coal it is heat and fire. With water not being very reactive, it would not be feasible as a fuel source by itself.

Stan Meyer figured out how to split water with far less energy than conventional straight DC circuits. He used pulsed DC at specific high frequencies. Of course he needed a working model for the patent office, and they kind of freaked out.

The embedded BBC 4 video starts out with Jim Griggs water-cavitaion energy device, and the Stan Meyer section starts at 21:24

I invented a computer battery that never needs to be recharged and runs forever on the nitrogen in the air but I was killed by the CIA and they destroyed all my schematics.