Bullet size doesn't matter, placement does

They are all shit but 9mm and .45 are common and cheap which makes them the best options logistically.

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A friend of a friend owns an FN Five-Seven. Meme cartridge for sure but I actually like the trigger on the pistol itself.

?.357 sig performs better than 10mm
perhaps for self-defense because real 10mm is guaranteed to penetrate a human body.

but in terms of lethality, real 10mm obviously has more energy.

britain being stupid and gay as usual I see

I doubt that it will with a good hollow point and even if it did it would be devastating. In what sig is better is in being similar size to today's common cartridges and recoil, as well as sectional density.

10mm always wins because everything else is a commie round
go jump under a train yokel

From a pure ballistics standpoint 10mm outperforms .357 SIG, sure. Other practical considerations, such as recoil and grip size, gives the edge to .357 in a lot of cases, however.

big-bore (.40+ cal) hard-cast wadcutters are the best pistol round
prove me wrong

please don't call me a yokel that is very rude

With real SMGs 5.7x28 makes much more sense because of the automatic fire accuracy.

10mm is for cucked no funs for civilians modern pistol caliber sporting carbines (c).

I know that you are just shitposting, but I'm feeling autistic enough today to reply seriously.

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I think he was doing a somewhat parody of the legendary pistol trainer, Jeff Cooper, who would claim that people who didn't shoot 1911 in 45 ACP were probably pinko commie faggots, or something in that general idea of things. Since 10mm was heavily influenced by Cooper, today we can echo is great sentiments by saying "Anyone who doesn't shoot a Bren Ten or a 1911 in 10mm or 45 ACP is a pinko commie faggot".

MP5's in 9mm Luger can be controlled about as well, with superior terminal effect. With the longer barrel, 9mm can even penetrate some soft body armor it isn't rated to penetrate with a handgun barrel, especially with fast followup shots.

I'd say the 10mm, 9mm, even 45 ACP submachine guns are better than FN's poor performer.

Prove it. Post two targets shoot side to side by these calibers SMGs.

youtube.com/watch?v=ia1k1Zg4l2A&t=505s
9:15
won't let me embed

this is the point.

You wanted to proof, you got proof. Now stop whining fagt.

Civilians who would never ever own machineguns logic.

Itd be pretty cool if it was literally just the 5.56 bullet. Thatd actually be noice.

Again, the 5.56 NATO bullet just with scaled down powder would be perfect. They dont make it though.

You mean M855/M855A1? You do know those fail to have ballistic effectiveness even out of the M4A1 with a normal powder load, right? You want that shot out of a barrel a third as long, with half as much power behind it, and you think that's going to have good results? Read a book before you post on this board, or go back to 4chan, you loser.

fuck off, kike.

Why did anyone think this was a good idea?

22lr: 40 grains: 1,100 fps
5.56: 62 grains: 3,100 fps
maybe learn how to do math?

For a bullet that small speed just makes it more accurate at longer ranges. An Asian man may thrust fast but he won't be able to pleasure her

If you're a woman maybe.

Except for the convenient fact that it is armor-piercing.

You make it sound like if it was able to go through AR500 plates, but actually it only goes through IIIA. Just like the good old 7.62 Tokarev.

5.7 would actually be good and cool if the bullet was just a 5.56 Nato round sith a scaled down cartridge.

Looks like the yankee ZOG is out in force today praising the round designed to wound but not kill white people so they could be later sacrificed to Satan during the last days of Mystery Babylon. 5.56 is a Satanic round designed by Jews. Pick a real battle rifle sized catridge, or better yet 30-30 winchester, a round designed to kill Red Indians and their overglorified cows, the undomesticatable buffalo, plus the bears they name their chiefs after

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It's true. That's why ZOG uses the 5.56. Ever wondered why Israel uses the 5.56? The true Aryan cartridge is the 6.5mm Arisaka, which is why nobody uses it anymore. (((NATO))) and the (((Warsaw Pact))) were scared of its völkische nature.

At least try to be less retarded. My post was meant to educate you about the utter nonsense of your ideas, but apparently that's over your head. Leave and don't come back until you actually know how guns work.

Nice job double posting your retardation because you think that makes it more valid. Bargain bin .22 LR hollow points expand more reliably at those velocities than 5.56 M855/A1. You can take some dirt-cheap .22 LR bulk FMJ like Super-X and poke the nose with a pencil and it will expand more reliably than the military ammo. There is literally a .22 LR FMJ modification that is popular, which involves nothing except poking the bullet with a Philips head screwdriver. They expand to double or more the bullet's diameter out of pistol barrels, while M855/A1 bullets are known to icepick and apply little to no energy for wounding if they fall below hard velocity, spin, and destabilisation thresholds. There are Youtube videos on this shit, watch them.

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Why not varmint grenade bullets?

reported

all bullets "icepick" when they fall below a certain threshold, shill.

Nice butthurt, nogunz.

What the fuck could I possibly be shilling? Do you even know what that word means? 5.56 NATO bullets in the 5.7 FN cartridge WILL NOT WORK. They will not be effective. It is already a poor performer without the special AP ammo civilians can't own, and you want to cripple the round with a remarkably terrible bullet design on top of that. Out of a fucking pistol length barrel, with less powder to burn in the first place. What part of this have I not explained to you? It is the most limp-dick retarded idea I've read in weeks. It - will - not - be - lethal. The fucking PMR-30 would be a better weapon than a Five-seven fed with M855 autism handloads.

Take your pic:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.221_Remington_Fireball
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56×30mm_MINSAS

That is correct.

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Son, the Injuns were all on the reservation by the time the smokeless fancy new 30-30 hit the shelves. Oh, and the buffalo, too. That thing is a deerslayer, always was, always will be. May not be the greatest combat round ever, but it certainly is a short range hunting rifle with high terminal effect when coupled with its lower velocity and energy.

The 55 grain ball actually sometimes acted almost pretty close to the varmit gernade rounds, at a certain threshold of velocity, energy, and resistance. Bullet would fragment quickly, and it wasn't the fragments that did the damage, but rather the fact that quick and violent fragmentation lead to a lot of resistance in the tissue and this lead to permanent stretch cavities/hydrostatic shock. The problem with both varmit gernades and 55 ball is that at lower energy and velocity fragmentation is a bad thing and causes less damage because it won't cause any permanent stretch of the tissue, also varmit bullets are poor barrier penetrators because they kinda "blow up" and fragment against everything instead of punch through it.

5.56/223/5.7 or any .224 et al 's critical issue is that the bullets that are better performers on animals and people are poor at penetrating barriers, the bullets for that caliber and cartridges that are good at penetrating barriers aren't good for terminal performance on tissue.

"Icepicking" is a term reserved for the small calibers. If a 500 grain 45-70 gubmit bullet hits you are 400 fps, its not going to "ice pick" its going to fuck up everything in its path pretty decent. If an 8 bore ball, 2 ounces of lead and .835 inches diameter hits you at 400 fps it isn't going to ice pick, its going to fuck you up really bad. .224 bullets are ice pickers especially because the very tiny diameter, along with common combat bullets that are sharp spitzer's, lead to a bullet that will "slip" through tissue because they don't create any resistance and just pass on through, without the courtesy for a hello or serious damage to surrounding tissues. Indeed, some larger calibers have had some problems with this WHEN they use spitzer bullets (people who have survived multiple battle rifle rounds are proof of Hauge Convention's FMJ demands and spitzer's life sparing capabilities) but once you get to the medium and larger bore guns and use round nose or flat nose "ice picking" no longer occurs.

I'd define "icepicking" as something like "when the bullet creates the would channel smaller than its diameter" or something. How close is it to how actual thing happens?

I'm not talking about the 5.7 pistol, you stupid piece of shit, I'm talking about the fact of threshold velocity that you deliberately ignored because you know I'm right.
fuck off.

this is by definition impossible since the bullet diameter is what must pass through the medium, so the hole will always be at least as large as the bullet itself.
"icepicking" means a loss of kinetic energy to the point where hydrostatic shock is no longer possible. The real issue is energy, not necessarily velocity. To that extent, all rounds are subject to "icepicking" at a certain point.
and given that fact, the "icepicking" non-argument is just another excuse morons use to try and feel smart about their meme.

Doesn't the bullet pull the flesh apart and not actually crush and tear it when that happens? It pushes the flesh but it returns back to its state so you only have a small thin hole. The hole will then be of smaller diameter because neither fragmentation, expansion, tumbling or just permanent stretch or just the crushing of tissue has occurred.

A flechette gun would have to fire a lot more and at a faster rate to be as effective.
Kinetic load is a factor, if you fire needles they will decellerate faster, especially during penetration.
There must be an optimal caliber/length/weight ratio, which can then be fine tuned in terms of magazine capacity, firing rate and explosive charge power.
I would think a half decent programme could work it out fairly quickly with graphs for a dozen mixed variables.

You never had an argument to begin with and you can't even enforce it honestly or with any facts. Will you just kill yourself already, my man? You're embarrassing everyone. Fact: military 5.56 is a poor performer. Fact: using the same bullet at a

lower velocity, nigger

will perform even worse. Unless you think you can load muh teflon coated cop killer round to 80k psi.

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neck yourself

Your entire existence.

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Go back to reddit.

That image is like a decade old, dude.

Is Codemonkey trying to tell us to stop making guns?

Killing people with bullets is done in two ways: bleeding and hitting the cns. Cns is a long thin target. Hit that, and its lights out. Ive seen a guy accidentally killed by a single round of 9mm at a range of about 100m, and in iraq I saw an iraqi walking around like a zombie after 8 rounds from 7.62 coax to thorax/abdomen. Shot placement is final. Characteristics of bullets should be compared on the basis of capacity, material defeat, external ballistics and availability/price/host weapon.

Not old enough.

So a 5.7 loaded with 5.56 bullets is one of the worst possible options, objectively?

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Yiff in hell.
>>>/bog/

furfags really live rent free in your head huh? tell me about trump's plan to deport all the browns next

I bet you're proud of your troll, brohoof my nigger

Get out.

oh dude so trolled man this is going in my trolling the alt right folder

What are you spergs on about?

Not really. If the 7.62 NATO co-axial had been using expanding bullets like cops, civiliains, hunters use, any one of those eight hits would have been almost certainly fatal and he would be walking nowhere. The best performing 308's are murderers, they will break limbs and cause massive trauma to the torso, will blow a skull about completely apart. With Hague Convention bullets 7.62 NATO can be somewhat neutered on soft tissue hits, but its lame and tame compared to what the cartridge can do when its properly loaded.

The best 9mm Luger loads can be potentially marginal depending on the shot placement. High power rifle, battle rifles, with the proper bullets will almost certainly guarantee a savage and battle altering blow. One bullet won't punch deep enough into a man to get to his blood bearing organs, another one will. One will bleed a man fast enough to make a difference in a protracted fight, the other might not. A handgun bullet might put an arm or leg out of service by damaging nerves and tissue, a tight group of buckshot might literally sever it.

No, shot placement is not 100% all important to the exclusion of all other effects. A 22lr to the chest that misses the heart and aorta may not even slow a man down. A foster slug to the leg will always make an impression. A 5.56 of the right bullet might ice pick and hardly slow down a man where another bullet in the same cartridge would have expanded or fragmented and put him out.

This has been well known since the whole "dum dum" controversy of the early smokeless battle rifle era. 303 British bolt actions with non expanding spitzer's were known to fail to stop attacking determined tribesman in Africa. Switch to soft points and hollow points the complaints of failures to stop suddenly came to a stop. Similar experiences in Phllipines and other places have told similar stories. "Terminal performance is pointless" is a meme repeated by people when they lose the argument.

Some of them want dual stacks, but haven't been gifted the hands of Liszt. When will they learn?

Out.

Wow, fuck, did I mistype all of those? P-pls no bully!

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sage negated

>>>/reddit/

Leave now.

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